Post by busterfree on 09/06/17 at 00:09:35
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> SE84UFO >> Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1502683739 Message started by Kevin on 08/14/17 at 05:08:59 |
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Title: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 08/14/17 at 05:08:59 Hello everyone, I've spent the better part of this weekend tube rolling rectifiers in this sweet little amp and can say for sure that in my rig the 80 globe is THE tube for the super zen. I tried several mullard 5AR4 (another good choice but a step below the 80 imo), two different 274B (the stock valve art and a wonderful 90's full music globe, several vintage 5U4, and a superb vintage Marconi 5Z3, but the old 1920's-30's Radiotron 80 on an adapter was the clear winner for me. In this case I left a siemens e188cc in the driver slot and the stock output tubes for every trial. I was only interested in the rectifier because, surprisingly for me at least, the rectifier seems to have more impact on the sound in this amplifier than the input tube. Anyway, just anecdotal experience here, but wanted to put it out there for those interested. 80 globes might not be a tube everyone has, but I've found in the past that it usually sounds very good and it works anywhere a 5Y3 fits (same tube electrically but with different pins, hence the adpater). In this case it was obvious. Hands down, this is the best sounding Decware amp I've owned so far and its only been a short time. Happy listening. http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/decware-zen-se84ufo.html |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 08/15/17 at 02:29:17 Great pictures. Where do you source the adapter or keyword to search for? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by donovan on 08/19/17 at 00:04:01 That Arcturus is a definate looker! I certainly wouldn't use it for everday listening but if I was showing the amp off, that's the one I'd roll in there. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 08/19/17 at 13:52:35 thinking i have enought hrs on my ufo2 to start rolling... yes please tell more about this adapter. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 08/31/17 at 19:42:58 Something like this will work... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5Z3-274A-80-To-5U4G-GZ34-274B-5Y3-5AR4-5R4G-5T4-5Z4-5Z4P-Convert-Socket-/232259947884?hash=item3613c58d6c:g:UNUAAOSwjVVV5ABB There are a variety of them out there, but any 5y3/80 to 5u4 pin adapter will work. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 09/06/17 at 00:08:08 I finally received one of the adapters from China. My globe 80 is still burning in. I am liking what I am hearing so far. There seems to be more openness and air compared to the Valve Art 274B that shipped with the amp. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 09/06/17 at 00:09:35
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steve Deckert on 09/06/17 at 02:32:19 I have been using one in our demo SE84UFO2 and they do sound quite wonderful. Steve |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 09/10/17 at 21:29:34 Well, my globe 80 did not last long.  I am trying another 80 tube. Hopefully, it will last longer. We shall see.  :-[ :'( |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by SonicSeeker on 09/10/17 at 21:51:51 Bummer |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Jeff of Arabica on 09/11/17 at 03:27:31 Buster, I must say that is the prettiest blown tube I have ever seen! But I am sorry it happened. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by maddog07 on 09/26/17 at 18:40:49 Can these be used in "Any" Decware amp that uses a 5U4G rectifier? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 09/26/17 at 23:24:05 I don’t know about any, but if 5U4G is listed on product page, I would try it. I have used it in SE84UFO, SE84UFO2, and CSP3. I do not have any other Decware amps. 
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 09/26/17 at 23:33:36 cool, i got my adapters yesterday... ordered some 80's today. can't wait to try them out! btw what technically are we doing by putting in a type 80 (i.e. what are the spec differences between 5U4G vs 80)? like to understand this. see all kinds of charts but none comparing these... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Rivieraranch on 09/29/17 at 03:11:47 The type 80 is to the 5Y3 what the 5Z3 is to the 5U4. The 80 and 5Y3 are electrically equivalent as the 5Z3 and 5U4 are. I guess the final decision is how the tube sounds. I am using 5Z3's in my Decware Torii Mk IV with adapters in place of 5U4s. It is mostly a cost issue. Have you seen how much NOS 5U4 pairs are selling for? The 5Z3 is a lot less and there are many of them for sale around. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 09/29/17 at 16:50:54 thks for input RR! makes sense. think my 80's will be here today. i have csp3, zp3, ufo2 i can try them in... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 09/29/17 at 23:20:19 is there an orientation regarding how to insert these into the adapter? it's a 4pin with no center guide pin.. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 09/30/17 at 02:13:50 Two pins of the four pins are slightly larger in diameter. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 09/30/17 at 04:51:59 ty busterfree! got it. warming them up now... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tripwr1964 on 10/04/17 at 17:19:25 ive been running an 80 in both systems this week (csp3/cary and ufo2). yeah it's a nice rectifier. i didn't notice too much of a difference in the ufo2 vs. stock tube. but in my csp3 (replacing my mullard metal base 5ar4) it was noticeable. very smooth and relaxed compared to the 5ar4. i am going to continue to listen and get some hours on this 80 and see where it goes. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/12/17 at 02:33:00 After all the posts about the type 80 globe tubes I had to try them. I also decided to get a couple of different brands and configurations. Majestic vs. Cunningham vs Radiotron although from what I was able to find out about the tube MFG’s Cunningham and Radiotron should be silmilar, we’ll see. Then I came across a National Union ST bottle with “corrugated” plates. Never even knew these existed! So I thought I’d throw these in the mix. Even if after trying these I decided not to use them a couple will be part of a tube collection I’m putting together. Now I wonder, does this make me the ultimate idiot??? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 10/13/17 at 21:27:01 "Now I wonder, does this make me the ultimate idiot???" I think I might already have that trophy... :) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/14/17 at 13:13:21 S##T! Always late to the party. ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/14/17 at 18:38:25 Tried the type 80 Globe. This is my initial impression. Agree with all of the posted comments. The RCA is a little warmer than the Majestic and both are different from the Mundorf GZ32. I wouldn’t say better just different. The Mundorf GZ32 is more detailed and extended with greater depth and the sound comes from a blacker background making the result more “real”. It gives more of a feel for the venue, more 3D. The Type 80 has less depth and less top end extension in comparison giving the “warmer” feel. More forgiving. I’ve tried a lot of rectifiers and depending on the tube combo the Mundorf GZ32/CV593 is still my favorite for the SE84UFO2 with the type 80 Globe a close second. That’s pretty high praise from me. The other rectifier that I have in the CSP3 is the AWV Radiotron 5AS4. All three are keepers. I’m going to try the type 80 Globe in the CSP3 and see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/14/17 at 22:18:18 I wrote the earlier post before I had coffee...Mullard GZ32 not Mundorf. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/24/17 at 02:48:45 Ive tried the following type 80 tubes: Cunningham UX380 RCA UX280 Majestic 80 National Union type 80 ST bottle Long story short... it’s between the Cunningham and National Union. However the Mullard GZ32/CV593 still remains my favourite with my tube complement and system. It has more extension top to bottom, especially in the bass and more depth. With the added bass the Mullard provides more foundation to the music. Not to take anything away from the type 80 though, nice tube. You will pay dearly for any Mullard, double to triple the price. (I have noticed that the type 80’s are starting to edge up in price slightly). So with some work on the accompanying signal tube and power tubes the type 80 could close the gap somewhat. If you’re checking out the NU Type 80 ST bottle take a note of the construction. They are not all the same. I came across a couple that had horizontal and vertical mica spacers on the top and ribbed plates - really well made. This is as far as I will go with the type 80 tubes. I’ve rolled more than enough and my tube inventory needs thinning out. In time I may try the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B, talk about a pricy tube though. This will probably have to wait until after I get my Z-Rock which I will be ordering shortly. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/31/17 at 11:47:40 I adjusted the gain structure on my system... turned the CSP3 calibration pots up one notch. In the much larger space that the system is in now it seemed to lack a bit of density. The end result was way better than expected. So I thought I would try the Type 80 tubes again this time I also changed the power tubes from the SV83 to the TAD EL84STR... evrything changed to the point where I felt that I should re state my initial impressions. All the 80 types are VERY nice but my preference changed. Now the National Union ST and Majestic were tied with a slight preference to the NU and the Cunninghams followed. The Cunninghams are warmer, more euphonic with good detail and extension, may be preferred by some in some rooms and systems. The Majestic and NU were not as warm but still “liquid” with good extension top to bottom, perhaps a little more “natural”. The GZ32/CV593 with either the SV83 or TADs were different altogether...still liquid but everything emerged from a blacker background, more detail in the extension, clearer, more space and depth in the soundstage. More audiophile but still “musical”. Audiophile in a good way. BUT, could also be less relaxed especially if all one wanted to do was to kick back and chill. The system is not in it’s final space, I just ordered a Z-Rock2 and the S3HOXRS are still burning in. So I get to do this all over again. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 12:54:01 Interesting. . . I too have different systems with tube-rolling and settings (my PS Audio P10 for example had two different "modes" and also "Sine" or adjustable "Multi-wave" settings that alter the sound distinctly, and my amp sound different with either the 4 or 8 ohm speaker switch positions or the high and normal bias positions). Rectifiers and regulation tubes and power tubes work in tandem in interesting ways. I have several different "signatures" I can evoke in this way, though there's one that I prefer for day to day listening. We rarely get bored with our systems as a result. . . but it can also lead us to always experiment and seek improvements. I'm at the point now where my clearest path to improvement is to try a ZMA. . . which is not a good thing. . .I can't afford one really and I want to be just happy and content with what I have. . . but. . . this drive to experiment and the interesting results endangers that. . . . |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by DBC on 10/31/17 at 15:59:38 Quote:
I FEEL YOUR PAIN BROTHER !! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/31/17 at 16:10:19 Lon, I think it’s an addiction and short of seeking professional help I don’t think we’ll find a cure, not that I want to ::). Like you I’ve been on a path too long, won’t stop, so I have to put some “discipline” in the path I’m on now. So what I’ve decided to do is work with the system I have until I wring out the very last option. I’m afraid that I’ve become a low power snob. I’m not blind to the limitations but as I work with the limitations I’m finding that I keep “pushing the envelope” and achieving results that are often beyond what I expect. However, this can’t be a matter of achieving the “ultimate” sound. As Alper noted in his post that after all his life’s experience (he certainly has had experience that I have not) he still doesn’t know what the best sound is! Food for thought upon which to establish some guidelines in our never ending quest. (is that too dramatic?) Cheers! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 16:59:59 DBC wrote on 10/31/17 at 15:59:38:
I know you do! ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 17:08:46 Yes, ultimate sound. . . too shallow for a goal. Best sound for all that I listen to, or the most natural and real sound for all that I listen to, that's what I think I aspire to. And I can understand the "low power" snobbery. My problem is that I fell in love with the RL-2 and then the HR-1 and ERR and these I can't get to be their best with the low power. I try. It was the Toriis that made them sing and the second Torii Mk III that I bought that was the ultimate with its two tone controls. I think I've found the plateau I can with the equipment I have. And I'm reveling in it. The only next step for me is the ZMA, that may bring me to a new plateau. But like you I should put limitations in place, and those may mean I don't go to that next plateau. I'm blessed with the air and view I have now and that's no crime! We may both end up with professional help though. . . can see that happening! ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/31/17 at 17:24:29 It’s all Steve’s fault. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it! I don’t think he’s sought professional help either so I doubt that he’ll be of much help in that regard. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 17:27:18 I actually want to assign the biggest blame to my Dad as he helped me to love music, and as he was the one with the Dynaco system when I was growing up that introduced me to tubes and that kept me wanting to experience them afterwards when I went through a few solid state systems. But Steve is an accomplice, indeed. He can escape jail, but he has a long probation period ahead of him in his R&D lab. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/31/17 at 17:30:16 Lon, Why not get this over with... How about the Tori Mono’s? ;D |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 17:41:05 Believe me, I've thought about it. It would be an expensive divorce though. . . ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 10/31/17 at 18:29:46 There’s nothing more I dare add to that, other than to say I too understand your pain! :'( |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Acetone on 11/14/17 at 15:43:44 You are all a bad influence! I had to try the 80 types based on comments here. Just received the adapter base to go with a Cunningham and NU (both bottle shaped). Will use them in my Superzen-CKC. Listened to the NU last night playing CD's and I was very, very happy with the sound. I felt there was a bit more kick drum & bass in the mix in a good way. But this may be hiding some of the details normally heard...too soon to tell. But, so far I am very impressed. Will try the Cunningham after a few days with the NU. Then back to the Philips 5R4GYS and the Matsushita GZ34/5AR4 for comparison. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/15/17 at 11:28:07 :D |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/15/17 at 11:40:50 In the previous post I was trying to see if I could attach a picture of some of the rectifiers that I have collected and... surprise... it worked! A couple need some work on the pins but all are in very good shape. The NU Type 80 ST has vertical ribs on the plates which peaked my curiosity. Ace I have have a similar take on the NU but it is a very interesting rectifier and so I’m going to work with it a bit more. The others are Majestic Globe, Cunningham Globe and I just had to try a Ken Rad 5U4G. I’ve got NOS in original box AWG Type 80 ST bottle on the way and a Sophia Aqua 274B. Once they’re all here I’m going to have some fun! - not about a shoot out for me just some fun. I rationalize this - ailment- by saying that it’s a lot cheaper than trading out components. To a degree it helps with the Wife Acceptance Factor, to a degree. Not trying to be a bad influence, really? ::) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/15/17 at 20:53:49 Okay, the fun has started sooner than I expected... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/15/17 at 21:15:34 The previous post shows you what I had been waiting for to add to the Type 80 experiment. I forgot about the Ken-Rad 5V4G that I came across and ordered to compare to a TungSol 5V4G that I had obtained quite some time ago... I guess I have to face the fact that I have become a tubeaholic! Moving right along... Of course I had to try these right away... I’m not going to get into any detailed synopsis but, the Sophie Aqua appears to live up to the hype and could be the first real challenge to my Mullard GZ32/CV593 albeit with a different “perspective”. Initial comments; very refined, surprising low end. Now the real shocker... the AWV Radiotron Type 80. Paid $64.00 for three, NOS, with box, “cigar” wrapper c/w printed tube data. Still needs to burn in but, out of the box the most balanced tube I have come across period. No way this tube should be this good! The Sophie and the Mullard are “better” in certain aspects no doubt. But this AWV Type 80 sits right in their face and says “you’re trying to hard, move over and I’ll show you how it’s done!” At one point it just about brought tears to my eyes (“just about” because real men do not cry! If we do we do not admit it! We might cuss but we do not cry! Right?) So, the details will come much later, right now I’m having way to much fun. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 11/16/17 at 00:45:40 Purchased from an eBay seller or another online vendor? I do not “need” another rectifier, but I would like to find a good source just in case. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 11/16/17 at 01:58:16 Thanks for this heads-up on these interesting tubes folks. Right now I am enjoying a Philco Globe in my CSP3, but ran Cunningham x380 globes for several weeks in the Torii, as well as some Westinghouse labeled ST shaped 80s. I have also played with a Cunningham in the CSP3 quite a bit. I agree with Joman's comment "The Cunninghams are warmer, more euphonic with good detail and extension." In comparison to the Westinghouse ST shaped 80s, with ribbed black plates and hanging filaments, and a Philco globe, the Cunninghams I got were warmer and fuller, but also extended, fast, spacious, exceptional micro detail, but yes, darkish and "euphonic." I would say both globe types are "bigger," these STs probably a bit more neutral and "normal." The spacial and tonal complexity is there with the STs, sounding pretty rich and atmospheric, but like from a smaller room. Not better or worse depending on system needs, but different. Though all three share variations on a similar sound, the Cunningham globes especially caused me to look more carefully at what I think "euphonic" is. As I listened more analytically to them in the Torii, what appeared like a "syrupy" quality I usually associate with euphonic, was not really syrup at all. Here, these tubes were fast and dynamic, not slow or thick. They were also excellent for micro detail, including loads of atmospheric/spacial information. So really, I guess the sense of euphonic (with these tubes anyway) may be a combination of the ethereal feeling from rich and complex space, and detail that is well integrated with what was initially pretty notably dark, but not veiled sound. Tending to dark without veils, along with good space and detail, is normally what I think of as "warmth." But these tubes fill these descriptors more completely than I am used to...they were more "trippy," the richer and more complex atmospheric feel contributing to what I heard as "euphonic." Though I usually do not prefer "euphonic," with these tubes I was enjoying it, though I did need to compensate for the pretty deeply "warm" aspect with an open/clear RCA 5R4GY in the CSP3, and some quite transparent Phillips ECC189s as inputs in the MkIV. After that, I enjoyed these great looking and richly complex tubes. Interestingly, with more time the Cunninghams lost enough of their unusually open darkness that now I would more call them warm and atmospheric, not quite so euphonic. They opened up enough that the very clear RCA 5R4GYs in the CSP became too clear on a lot of brighter music, though the globes remained warm, enough so that the Phillips ECC189 stayed. I think the exceptionally euphonic feel may have been from the tubes being true NOS, perhaps contributed to a little by the adapters needing burnin. Which reminds me. Those of you who know my posts know I don't tend to recommend things, more describing what I hear since the characteristics of something may be not so good for one system, and great for another. But especially when adding layers of stuff for the signal to pass through, like adapters, madscientist graphene contact enhancer is really beautiful. If you clean up the tube pins with fine steel wool or a cleaner/contact enhancer (Cardas is good), that helps for sure, but this graphene enhancer is the best I have tried. I have used it on all sorts of connections, internal and external, cables, tube pins, everywhere, and it just sounds better to me, doing everything that is already there with smooth clarity and without coloring. And needing just a little, the small bottle will do lots of contacts, so not a big risk to try. Using it on the type 80 adapters and cleaned tube pins makes the tubes notably better here! Not having liked the dynamic "flattening" from some earlier RCA 5Y3GTs, and some Bendix 5Y3GT equivalents in comparison to 5U4, 5R4, GZ32 and GZ34 and equivalents, I was pleasantly surprised how these 5Y3-like tubes act quite differently...more sense of power, body and dynamics. I hear slightly reduced dynamics compared to more punchy Phillips GZ32, but just listening without comparison, it would not occur to me that these particular "5Y3" tubes seemed lacking in dynamics. Micro dynamics actually seem pretty exceptional in my current setup, and macro dynamics quite nice. Liking these tubes either in the CSP3, or in the Torii this is the first time anything has displaced Mazda or Phillips, or Mullard GZ32s for any length of time in my amps in a number of years. In both the CSP3 and Torii, GZ32s just stayed in for the most part. I ordered some more adapters, and won't know until I try, so don't know if using these 80s in both amps will suit me or not. Especially with compensation with open/spacious inputs they might though. To me, these 80s are revealing, fast, warm, with excellent complex space and micro detail. I would have described Phillips made G32s similarly. But so far, I find the bigness of tone, and how space and micro detail is revealed quite good with these....good in similar, but different and compelling ways. So far, I really like them. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 11/16/17 at 02:09:15 Seems I often get to writing, then maybe do something else, then listen....then write, and forget to check for new posts before finally posting!@#$%^& So I did not see your recent post Joman. Have you run your Cunninghams more? I heard from Brent Jesse that he thought RCA made them, and the "Radiotron" part of AWVs sounds like RCA??? I have never heard of AWVs. Any thoughts? ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/16/17 at 04:40:17 Hey Will! I’ve looked into the Type 80’s history which makes me no expert but here’s my understanding... RCA made a deal with Cunningham to private label their early Type 80’ Globes. So you would think that they would sound exactly the same. I was intrigued by the initial posts of the Type 80 Globes and I came across an auction for four, 1 Cunningham, 2 RCA and 1 Majestic. I didn’t want to spend a lot of money, so I thought why not even if they simply test good. I was impressed with my initial experience with these. I did notice a difference between the RCA and the Cunningham which one would think should not exist. Similar sonic signature but the RCA’s sounded “warmer” emphasizing the mids more so than the Cunningham’s to a degree that was not to my liking. The construction of the two appeared to be identical so this did not make sense. To check this out I hunted down an RCA UX280 and a Cunningham CX380 in better condition. Same story! I could understand the Majestic sounding different because the plate dimensions are obviously different - longer and much wider. I sold the initial 4 and the RCA UX280 but kept the Cunningham CX380 and the Majestic. I also wanted to get a handle on the later ST bottle TYPE 80’s. Came across the NU and then the AWV Radiotron Type 80. I also came across the post for the Sophia Aqua 274B and of course it’s easy to guess the rest. I came across a Ken-Rad 5U4G in the process so I thought why not re open the can of worms. Then I came across a post for the 5Z3’s and I started to look into the history a little more. Turns out it all started with the Type 80 Globes progressed to the Type 80 ST, then the 5Z3 on to the 5AS4 and finally the 5U4G - as I understand it. No I’m not going to get a 5Z3. So there should be a similarity in the end result between all of these with some differences. That brings me to the AWV Radiotron as I bought four of these (spares) after trying one AWV 5AS4 GT. I had read user reviews of the AWV 5AS4 GT that claimed they were better than the RCA 5U4G ST. I cannot say whether they are or not as I have not made a direct comparison but I am still running a AWV Radiotron 5AS4 in my CSP3! They really worked well with my HD800’s and I preferred them to my Mullard GZ32 in my CSP3 with headphones or speakers!! Turns out that the AWV Radiotron was an Australian Tube producer that made their tubes on imported Mullard equipment or so the story goes. Because the 5AS4 is a 5U4G variant it should have similarities but not because its a re-branded RCA. My choice of rectifier in the SE84UFO2 is the GZ32/CV593 hands down - for now. The new Sophia may change that may not, we’ll see. Anyway as I was hunting down Type 80’s I came across the AWV Radiotron Type 80’s and after my experience with the AWV 5AS4’s I had to try especially at the price. My initial experience was a surprise as I stated earlier. It’s appears to be a very forgiving tube with just enough of everything to make it just right. Being a detail junkie I’ll probably end up with either the Mullard GZ32, Sophia Aqua 274B but that AWV Type 80 seems to be so easy to listen to. Probably end up with all three, and bonus - I have three of the AWV Type 80’s. Anyway to early to say for sure. I’ll probably end up keeping one of the Globes for a collection and selling off the NU, one of the Globes and the Ken-Rad 5V4G, not sure about the Ken-Rad 5U4G. My system includes the Omega S3HOXRS. The system is very, very fast so that differences in anything are readily appearent, possibly more so than with other systems. Hope this helps, remember I’m no expert at this, just my opinion. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/16/17 at 04:42:56 Buster, Purchased from Ebay but there are vendors like Brent Jesse Recording that stock these. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 11/16/17 at 05:22:51 I had to add this... the story that never gets old... Last week a couple of friends came over. Not audiophiles but one was particularly intrigued especially with tubes????? So, I asked if he would like to hear the system... usual stuff, jaw drops, has look of disbelief, never heard anything like this... blah blah blah. This getting a little boring for me by now so I thought I’d push some buttons. I showed him the Cunningham Type 80 Globe and asked if he would like to hear what 1928 technology sounds like? Does not know what to think of this, obviously, but says... yes. I then added may not be quite as clear but you should find it interesting... Rolled the tube and I think it was a little too much for him. Realizing that he had been had he just gave me this “piercing” stare. I think we are still friends. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 11/16/17 at 16:14:43 Glad so many of you have tried the 80! Its been an interesting read this morning catching up on everyone's impressions. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 11/18/17 at 21:51:46 Thanks Kevin for bringing up there interesting tubes. The globes are so beautiful to look at, I am really glad they sound good too! I got some more adapters so am trying type 80s in both the CSP3 and Torii. In the Torii, I first tried Westinghouse STs that look like just like the one Bustfree pictured, and they were good on really good recordings and not-so good when I put on Chet Baker's trumpet...too focussed. This was a little weird, as I had liked these tubes in the Torii with the old adapters and a GZ32 in the CSP3. So I decided to try the burned in adapters there. Much better, more complex, less focussed and hard. I figured I need to burn the new adapters in anyway, so tried the bigger and warmer sounding Cunningmham globes. Not brilliant on everything, but quite good on most, good enough to see what burnin does. With a Philco globe in the CSP3 the sound is rich, warm, and atmospheric, now hearing it as a little slow with 3 globes and 3 new adapters. It will be intersting to see what time on the adaptors does. Adjusting the gain relationships a little (sort of tuned-up Zbit, CSP3, Torii MKIV) it is sounding pretty nice on first impressions, but so far, I prefer the complexity of two different rectifier types in the different amps. Lately I have been running the 80s in one, and GZ32s in the other. Joman, thanks for the update. I had an inkling of memory of AWV tubes, but couldn't remember! Now I am thinking I heard about the Australian tubes from you some time ago when you got some 5AS4's. Some years ago I explored 5U4GBs for a quite a while. Liking some from other companies, I did not like normal RCA 5U4GBs I tried, short or tall, but some RCAs that looked just like the AWV 5AS4s (except mine have D getters) I really liked, and used for quite a while. I think they are from the late 40's, a solid, open sounding tube. Construction-wise, they look like RCA 5U4G-ST (same wire setup, plates, a glass blob and no bottom mica) except these were made in a tall GB bottle. I liked both RCA STs and this particular GB, not one better or worse, both really nice in their own variation on the sound. If memory serves, the GBs are more clearly open and solid feeling, and the ST variation I liked best, the least warm ones made with a little lighter weight plates and top getters, have a bit more complexity, more micro information, but it has been a long time. And of course, none of the RCA 5U4G-STs I have sound just alike either. So from the look of the 5AS4s, the Radiotron name could show a relationship with RCA, that particular tube likely more RCA equipment and design than Mullard. I agree. It really is intersting how the different companies spread around the world. Even using the same tech and machines, the tubes sound different. I have some Mullard machined ECC88s from South America, and some form India, and some from England...all good, all different. But then, different vintages from the same plant sound different too, even with quite similar construction. Easy to get seduced by tubes eh?!?!?! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by doukhobar on 01/29/18 at 14:43:36 Hi there, are the X280 and X380 globes, type 80 rectifiers? Thanks everyone! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/29/18 at 16:38:28 Yes they are. The ones I have labelled 80 are medium sized coke bottle shape, whereas, x280 and x380 are globes. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Tapatrick on 01/31/18 at 22:23:24 Thank you Kevin for alerting me to the RCA Radiotron Type 80's. I'm running a couple in on my SE84UFO3 mono blocks and they are very sweet indeed. I'm entering the world of serious rolling... much fun lies ahead. :) :) :) :) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Acetone on 02/02/18 at 16:24:12 Tried ST type 80's in the Zen-CKC. I like the RCA's best, next the "made for RCA /Cunningham's", The NU came in last. When all said and done the Mullard & Mitsubishi GZ34 are my faves with 5R4GYS Phillips and RCA's just behind. RCA 5U4's next. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 02/11/18 at 19:17:45 What sort of price should I expect to pay for a Mullard GZ32 ? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 02/11/18 at 19:51:08 Around $125 or so... Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 02/11/18 at 20:54:53 Thanks, that's exactly the price I found one. Being new to buying tubes just wanted to know if that was within reason. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/13/18 at 13:12:01 I'm beginning to dip my toes into the Type 80 rectifier tube pool. I now have four to play with: an Arcturus/Crosley globe, a pair of RCA small bottle type, and a bottle type RCA. So far I've just used the globe. . . and really like what I'm hearing. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 02/13/18 at 17:27:13 Hi Showme, I believe at the moment the most reliable source for NOS Mullard GZ32's is a company in Ontario which sells over eBay, and that is the price they ask for (plus S&H). I believe they are a retailer for the SME tone arms as well. I have dealt with them twice and they are pretty good to do business with. Best, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/13/18 at 17:51:54 The Arcturus globe is a really nice rectifier. Warm and sweet. I can be very happy with this one. Now I have the bottle-shaped RCA in. This one has the same bass balance and yet is more detailed in spatial cues and more dynamic. It's only been in an hour or so . . if this keeps up it may become glued into the Taboo Mk IV. I'm using the RCA 12AU7 (?} that Steve sent with the ZROCK2 in the ZROCK2, and a Sylvania 7308 in the Taboo Mk IV as well as Svetlana SV82 and the Type 80 RCA. I'm leaving this tube complement in for a while, really nice sound. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/14/18 at 11:06:10 I’ve had the Sophia Electric 274B in my UFO2 for some time now so I believe it is now burned in to the point that I decided to roll the Mullard GZ32/CV593, Cunningham CX-380 Globe, Majestic Type 80 Globe and the AWV type 80 ST. The objective was to see if there would be an immediate discernible difference since I am now used to the Aqua 274B. Therefore, this is not an exhaustive review of the tubes. It was very obvious and the Aqua 274B is now my rectifier of choice in the UFO2 but not the CSP3. The best way I can summarize the difference is that each of the others have their own strengths, a little more detail vs a little more warmth vs a little more dynamic. The Aqua has it all with great balanced of each of the qualities. In addition the scale of presentation is larger and the separation between instruments and vocals far more obvious. The Mullard would be my runner up. But it all comes at a price. So if budget is a consideration the type 80 are great alternatives. In a case where budget is a consideration do not try the Aqua 274B. If you get used to that one there’s no going back. I would emphasize that this is in the context of my system and tube complement. I did try the Aqua 274B in both the CSP3 and UFO2, I have two, I always keep a spare. I did not care for that combo so I have it in the UFO2 only. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/15/18 at 17:27:33 I'm hesitant about the Aqua for several reasons, chief among them that I really am not a big fan of the Valve Arts 274B and suspect this tube may hold similar traits. I could be wrong, and when I've had the SE84UFO3-25 Monoblocks I've ordered in hand and broken in I may consider investing in a pair. Right now I'm enjoying the three different Type 80 that I have purchased, each has their charm and I'm hard-pressed to name a favorite. The small straight ones being a matched pair will get a trial in the Monoblocks when they arrive and have a very compact and detailed, warm sound. The Crosley/Arcturus globe has a big resonant sound. The RCA ST-type shares a lot of the characteristics of the globe but with more spatial cues, seemingly more "resonant." Great tubes to have. I'll be keeping an eye out for different types in pairs while waiting for the Monoblocks. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/15/18 at 20:00:05 This is terrible Lon. I don’t have an Arcturus Type 80 to compare and I’ve blown the tube acquisition budget. You’ll just have to get an Aqua so we can know the difference between it and the Arcturus, right??? ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/15/18 at 20:04:30 Ha, we'll see. I bet it sounds like one of the tubes you have. All three of these types sound pretty similar, with distinguished characteristics separating them. . . but much more similar than different. I'm thinking I'm going to want a matched pair of globes to try in the Monoblocks. . . that will be my first target. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 02/15/18 at 22:36:10 Hey John, How would you compare the Sophia Electric 274B to NOS Mullard GZ32? I am in love with the latter, yet the GAS never goes away! :) Best, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/15/18 at 23:42:36 Hey Alper, I would need to spend more time comparing the two. I’ll see if I can spend some time tonight or tomorrow and get back on this. Now if only we could get Lon to compare with the Arcturus ::). |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/16/18 at 03:26:16 First, thanks for asking Alper as I’ve enjoyed an evening of music which I desperately needed. The difference between the the GZ32/CV593 and the Aqua 274B was readily evident and it’s not that small. The Aqua has more prescence in the mids and comes across as more complete more coherent across the frequency band, although sometimes a touch heavy on the mids, depending on the recording. This makes the Aqua more engaging, more organic. For the first time I found myself trying to sing along with the singer(s) (kind of embarrassing for me but there it is). Accompanying instruments are far more discernible and present. Piano, string instruments, wind instruments are more complete never blending never competing and always presented in more evident layers. In live recordings the venue is more evident. Vocals are breather, strikingly present. Some wind instruments, blues harmonica for example, came across a touch... raspier? More bluesy, made me want to find my harmonica (yes I have one and I’m not that good at it). The GZ32/CV593 is a little more back where as the Aqua seems to surround one in a sphere of sound, not forward though. Lons comment about the Type 80’s is right on, except that I have not heard the Arcturus and by the looks of it I will not know the difference :'(. Of the Type 80” that I have the Aqua is also quite different from them. However a word of qualification is in order here. My associated driver tubes are Siemens and Valvo, these, as described by some, tend to be somewhat less “warm” than say Amperex or RCA’s. I do have an Amperex Buggle Boy 6DJ8 and a Mullard 6DJ8 and 7DJ8. Going by memory, these did tend to bring more mid prescence to the GZ32/CV593 but not in the same way as the Aqua and in the case of the Mullard, a little dry for my liking. I also have a ZR2 and that component did make a significant difference. I guess what I’m trying to say is that my system is not the same as yours and so I cannot say that the Aqua will make the same difference in your system. So if this causes you to acquire an Aqua and you do not like it as much as the GZ32/CV593 let me know, I have a spare NOS GZ32/CV593 I’ll swap for it. I can always use another spare if you would want a spare as well. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Mcanaday on 02/18/18 at 16:48:11 Hi Joman - does the Sophia Electric tube require an adaptor with the Super Zen? If so, is it the same adaptor that works with the type 80 globe rectifier? Thanks...Margot |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 02/18/18 at 18:43:00 No adapter is required to use the Sophia Electric Aqua 274 in a Super Zen. 
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Mcanaday on 02/18/18 at 19:26:40 Thanks, Buster. What other tubes are you using there with the Sophia Electric? Thanks! Margot |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 02/18/18 at 21:58:28 Original output tubes that came with the amp (less than a year of use) and an expensive Telefunken E88CC that I got from Upscale Audio. When this tube goes bust, I will not be replacing it with such an expensive tube again. It is a great tube, but I have learned my lesson. I would rather put that money into more music to listen to. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/19/18 at 16:37:28 I’m using Siemens E88CC grey shield for the driver and NOS Svetlana SV83 for the power. The SV83 are the “older” version. I got the Siemens at a very reasonable price and so picked up 4 spares so that should do for quite a while. I think I got them for about $50.00. Last I looked they were crazy expensive. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/19/18 at 16:38:45 Correction on my last post re: Siemens E88CC grey shield... that should read &50.00 for a pair |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Mcanaday on 02/21/18 at 01:40:00 Thanks, Buster and Joman. The tube I have on hand is a Phillips Dario Miniwatt (Green Label) 7308. Is it your sense this would be too rich with the Sophia Electric rectifier tube? Thanks! Margot |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 02/21/18 at 02:46:02 Couldn’t say as I have had no experience with that tube. Only one way to know for sure. I’ve often taken the comments of others as a start. But only first hand experience will tell for sure. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 03/01/18 at 17:55:42 I just received the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B today. I am hearing it from the other room, yet what I hear is quite fine so far. I need to get in front of it and spend some time after another 30-40 hours maybe. Then I will post my experience here... But is that tube ugly or not, man? It changed the whole mojo of my SE84UFO! A weird blue on black? Does not match my furniture! :) Cheers, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 03/02/18 at 14:22:18 Alper, I dropped in a Sophia Aqua Wednesday. Pulled the GZ/32 to do it. They are both great tubes I'll have to get some hours on them to decide if I even have a preference. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 03/02/18 at 21:01:16 OK, here are my initial impressions of the Sophia... I do not know if this makes sense, but this tube seems to increase the headroom of the amp. In comparison to the NOS Mullard GZ32, which has been my favorite rectifier tube, the bass is a bit tighter and more controlled. In some albums, the album with the GZ32 could sound slightly, but just slightly, boomy. I have attributed this to no room treatment more than anything else. But with the Sophia, it sounds a little less so. I am not hearing the mid-forwardedness of the tube that John has observed. But I believe our tube complements as well as sources and rooms are significantly different, so one on one such comparison does not make sense to start with. At the same time, the deemed increased headroom might be due to the improved (and increased mids) that I claim not hearing... The trebles of the amp are also tad better, I believe... All in all, the Sophia is a better performer than the GZ32. Not by a lot, but just by a hair... However, I cannot get over the fact that it is one ugly tube! :) What's with the blue, man? I think I saw some explanation on their website, but tubes have this visual charm as well; looking at them in the middle of the night make me so happy. So I will force myself to use this one for a while. But the GZ32 is already so good as well, I might go back to it any day! :) Cheers, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 03/02/18 at 21:30:37 Ah come on Alper it's not that ugly. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 03/03/18 at 13:21:08 Well I would have to agree with Alper on the appearance of the Sophia when it is installed amongst the associated tubes. Kind of seems out of place, but I can live with the appearance. I would also stress the point that Alper made and try to in my comments about system synergy. I do not believe it’s a matter of how one tube ‘sounds’, rather it’s the combination and of course the components. In my case the rectifier in the CSP3 makes a significant effect on the UFO2. I have rolled too many to list. I did so to get a first hand understanding of what one can expect from rolling tubes and the limitations of doing so. Otherwise as much fun as it can be initially, rolling tubes can become an unrewarding distraction. After inserting the Sophia in the UFO2 I rolled rectifiers in my CSP3 with ones that I have kept in my inventory of rectifiers to see what the overall result would be. The result changed quite significantly as the rectifiers in the CSP3 were rolled. It was the combination of the AWG 5AS4 in the CSP3 with the Sophia in the UFO2 that produced the end result and not one or the other alone. The interesting thing is that I always seem to prefer the AWG 5AS4 in the CSP3 in combination with whatever rectifier I put in the UFO2. So now I have settled on that one one the CSP3 and roll only the rectifier in the UFO2. That also has now come to a conclusion, after all this is about music and the musicians for me. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 03/03/18 at 17:30:26 Thanks for the update, John, and also your reviews of the NOS Mullard GZ32 and the Sophia. I just wanted to mention the tube complements in my system, by the way: - SE84UFO - 6n2p bought from Decware; TAD EL83-STRs; and Sophia Electric Aqua 274B - Copland DAC215 DAC/Preamp - a pair of NOS Siemens 6922s Amazing sound... I cannot imagine what the new Anniversary would sound like, hearing this one! Best, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 03/03/18 at 18:26:03 I feel the same way about my UFO2. But, I’m in for the A-Amp. Largely because the system has exceeded my expectations to a degree that left me with this feeling that a lot more is possible with the 2 watt amp with the right high efficiency speakers. Getting the ‘right’ mating components is always a challenge whether it be high or low efficiency. At times I still have to get my head around the speed of the system. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 03/03/18 at 19:20:23 The truth is that all these amps and preamps respond to tube-rolling to a degree I have not encountered in other amps because of the simplicity of the circuits. Each tube's characteristics interact with the others. There are endless variations possible! I tend to anchor a complement around a rectifier. . . but then I can fall for another rectifier and the rotation begins! Right now I'm really enjoying a small RCA type 80 rectifier with a GE 6DJ8 (the ones that appear blacked out). Never enjoyed the GE before with any other rectifier, but this combo is really something. There was a time about six years ago where I felt that tube-rolling was about to drive me mad. I swore off it for a spell. . . but now I notice I have a cabinet of tubes again and I'm back in the game. I'm holding off on further rectifiers though till the 25 Anniversary Monoblocks arrive and I cycle through the tubes I have. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 03/03/18 at 20:06:12 Tell me about it Lon! Among the four tube amps I have, I have enough stuff that would carry me for another 30-40 years! I am not even getting into bass amplification at this point, as I have mostly SS stuff and only some of my recording gear has tubes. The good thing is three of the four amps are Decwares (SE84UFO, TABOO mkIII and SE34I.2+) so there are a lot of common tubes, at least the input and rectifier tubes, so that is the only point that I economize! :) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 03/03/18 at 21:59:43 Right. I've been lucky and haven't rolled many tubes in my guitar and bass amps. . . and my favorite two these days (Fender Jazzmaster Ultra-light SE, no tube; Fender Bassman TV Fifteen, one tube) don't really require rolling. But man. . . the endless possibilities when you have three or four dozen tubes. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 03/03/18 at 22:16:02 I picked up a Sophia Aqua this week based on the reviews here. So far I've only used it in my Yamamoto amp, where initial impressions are that its not quite as good as the 40's RCA JAN 5U4G that it replaced. The Yamamoto 45 is quite different from the SE84UFO though. I'll try it in the UFO this week coming and report back. Thanks for the tip, this is one that wouldn't have been on my radar otherwise. I think the blue color is a kickback to the 1920s Arcturus tubes which had blue glass. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 04/23/18 at 16:49:52 Kevin, what are your impressions of the Sophia in the Zen amp? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Kevin on 05/23/18 at 18:46:21 Sorry for the delay. For me, the Sophia Aqua 274B brings more focus and firmness to the presentation than the 80 globe does. That said, I still prefer the 80 globe with its warmth and spread. It’s friendlier, for want of a better description. Still sounds best to me. Now that its got some hours on it, I find that like the Sophia tube a lot in the Yamamoto 45 though. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Showme on 05/24/18 at 22:34:58 Interesting. I have both tubes and 80 globe has been in for quite a while. I may give the Sophia another try since I've been listening to the 80 for so long. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 05/25/18 at 14:43:14 I really like both of these tube types, the Sophia Electric 274B Aqua and the Type 80. I have type 80 bottle shaped in RCA and Tungsol pairs and I have a third RCA, and I have one globe 80, an Arcturus. I slightly prefer the 274B Aqua in the Monoblocks though I might prefer the Arcturus globe 80, its sound is a bit less focused but a bit warmer . . . but I don't have a pair of globe 80s to try. I'll hang with the 80s in the Monoblocks and the Arcturus in the Taboo Mk IV and I have RCA 80s in the Torii Mk II and Tung-Sol 80s in my CSP2+ and Taboo Mk III in my second system. I'll keep an eye out for a reasonably priced pair of Type 80 globes. . . . |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 06/12/18 at 02:29:11 I am done for now with the type 80 globe tubes. Over the last year, I have used several tubes to failure in a variety of amps. Some were from eBay and some were from a reputable vendor. I have one type 80 globe remaining to use in a stereo amp. >:( :( :-? :-[ :-X  |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 06/12/18 at 19:09:05 Sorry to hear that busterfree. Those things are not cheap. I too have joined the club and I've got a bunch of different manufacturers in all the bottle shapes. I'm using the newest ( straight glass shape ) in my SE84CS and my ZP3. I love the sound. That said, however, the globes especially won't go in there until I modify the power supply. Historically the data sheets list a max cap value after the rectifier of 30 uf. The ZP3 is 47uf and my SE84CS is 40 uf. That stresses the tubes. We're all taking a chance, but especially with the globes as they were the the earliest ones made and probably more fragile. I need to get into the SE84CS and change the PS config to make it safe for the type 80 rectifier. I really do like it a lot, even more than my EML 5U4G mesh plates, and that's saying a lot. Great tubes. Cheers, Crazy Bill |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 06/12/18 at 19:36:25 Sorry to hear also Busterfree. I have been using the same Philco Globe in my CSP3 pretty heavily for eight months or so. The others I have tried, globes, coke bottle, and straight all sound good in their own ways, but I generally prefer the globes in my setup. No troubles yet, fingers crossed. The main CSP3 power supply uses two 47uF electrolytic caps. Mine is heavily modded, but at present still stock power caps, though bypassed. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 06/12/18 at 20:50:27 I too have not encountered any problems or failures with Type 80. The only globe one that I have, an Arcturus, actually has a base that is a little loose and I treat it with careful kid gloves, and it has not given me a problem at all. The others are all bottle-shaped with the exception of a pair of small straight-shouldered RCAs and they work flawlessly. I admit I don't have months and months and months of use, but I've been using them. I'll keep an eye out for trouble. Though I have the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B back in the Monoblocks and they'll probably stay there. . . . My CSP3-25 just went to packing and we'll see what sounds best in that component. . . . |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by busterfree on 06/13/18 at 02:35:07 I like the type 80 globes, but I cannot run thru them as fast as I have been. They sound good but not at this rate of failure. I have a few straight and bottle shaped globe 80 that were not as expensive or hard to find. They will get their turn when I put a stereo tube amp back into my TV system. I like the Sophia Aqua, but I only have one. The monoblocks are main listening amps right now. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Jared Van Camp on 05/30/19 at 06:25:35 Lon, How does the 80 globe rectifier sound in your ufo25 compared to the Sophia Aqua 274b?? Thanks! Jared |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 05/30/19 at 11:11:29 The Type 80s (I have tried four different brands and types) generally sound a tiny bit thicker, warmer, slower. As a result they sound slightly veiled in comparison to the Aqua 274B. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by drD on 05/30/19 at 13:40:57 I provided my impressions of the Globe 80 here along with the 274B. https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1557290083 |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steve Deckert on 05/30/19 at 16:33:11 Loose Bases are a common ailment with NOS tubes because the glue between the base and the glass tube dries out. This can be easily repaired with the exact right adhesive. The adhesive is called Weldbond. It is a dries clear poly-acrylic. Available at hardware stores or online. Put a bead of glue around the crack between the base and the glass, then go around it with a wet finger and wipe off the excess. Let dry for 1 hour or more. Steve |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 06/04/19 at 20:00:52 Recently my tube rolling took an interesting turn with unexpected results which has given me a new perspective. Both my Sophia tubes gave out one after a year and half and one after minutes at best. So I had to find something in my inventory as an in term solution. Of the type 80’s that I had, one type was left, AWV Type 80 (ST Bottle). Never really gave this tube a good try. I popped this in my UFO25 and after a few hours things started to come alive so much so that I picked up a couple more made in the 40’s. For the price, a fraction of the Sophia, I felt that this was a really good back up. At the same time another tube caught my eye, AWV 5AS4G. I have been using The AWV 5AS4GB in my CSP3 and that, up till now, has become my go to tube for the CSP3. So, at the price, I picked up a couple of those and boy oh boy am I glad I did. With the AWV 5AS4G the tonality, transients and decay are shockingly good and yet to be equaled. The speed of the system is that of an electrostatic speaker based system. Not only do the speakers disappear, the whole system seems to vanish and what’s left is this expansive sound stage filled with beautifully layered and completely captivating music. When listening to violin passages I am left with a lump in my throat, I kid you not. As I thought about what was happening I realized that this tube, the AWV 5AS4G, was doing something that none of the others were able to do or at least had done. It was connecting all of the components and tubes into one harmonious ‘unit’ bringing out the best of each. Recently I settled on a Raytheon 5814A WM Getter in my ZR-2, I could really hear what it was contributing without drawing attention to itself. So too with the Type 80 in my UFO25, and all the other tubes and components. I look at this tube as I would a view the roll of a ‘Conductor’ in an orchestra. That is my new perspective of what a tube can do. So if I’m right, then I should be able to replace a tube and still end up with similarly engaging results even if the character of the presentation changes somewhat, somehow. That’s what I did next. Earlier, I tried a National /Matsushita 7DJ8 and really didn’t care for the results, so much so that I put it in my ‘sell’ pile. Took it out of the ‘sell pile’ and put it in the driver position of my CSP3 to see what would happen. The perspective of the presentation changed but, I really, really liked it. In the end I took the National 7DJ8’s out of the sell pile because I could easily put one of these in for an evening of a different perspective of engaging music. We don’t eat the same meal every night no matter how much we may like it. In the end I’m back to the Type 80 in my UFO25 that cost less than a quarter of the Sophia and I doubt that I’ll buy another tube that is that much money. As Busterfree said... better spent on music. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 06/04/19 at 20:33:23 Cool. I'm glad you've found alternatives and sorry your Sophias crapped out on you. My four Sophias are going strong and I have actually over the past week rotated a lot of Type 80s, a pair of 5AR4, a pair of GZ32, a pair of the Valve Art 274V, a pair of 5U4G and 5V4G and a number of 5Y3 and I keep coming back to the Sophias that just seem to do what this tube you've fallen for does: tie all the complement together and elevate them. I hope my Sophias keep going . . . and I'm probably going to pick up another for the one component I'm using that doesn't have one in place, my CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 06/05/19 at 10:38:08 I still have not been able to hear the Type 80’s on my UFO25... After reading the Forum’s re: Type 80 rectifiers, I ordered a few from eBay (Cunningham RCAs). Jim (rivieraranch) was kind enough to send me an adaptor; yet USPS messed it up and sent it to the wrong address first, and I only received it after I left the country for summer. So still wondering how it will sound on my system... Apart from this, I keep on coming back to Sophia Aqua 274B even though NOS Mullard GZ32’s are still serious contenders. I had high expectations for Sophia’s 5U4G and it is good tube, yet not close to the 274B. If the Type 80s sound better, the rectifier problem would have been solved forever! For cheap, at least! Cheers, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 06/05/19 at 16:07:07 Hey Alper, Hang on to that GZ32 even if it doesn’t become the go to rectifier as it does certain things that are unique to it and once in a while you may want to enjoy those attributes. I almost sold off the remaining ones I have and that would have been a mistake. After reading your post I popped the GZ32 into my UFO25 and as a result it is now a permanent fixture in my tube inventory for the UFO25. My system is different from yours in that I have the CSP3 and this has become a critical component that influences the choice of the tube complement in my UFO25 especially since I tried the AWV 5AS4G. To decide between a Type 80 and another type of rectifier is not that easy as each make of 80 is a little different from another make. I ended up with AWV Type 80 (ST Shape) in my UFO25. This morning I tried the GZ32, my curiosity was peaked after your post. As a result I will have to spend a lot more time with both before coming to a conclusion as to which will be preferred. In comparison the GZ32 is a little ‘darker’ with the best extended bass of all the ones I have tried. The top end is on par with the Type 80. The type 80 decay is better. The GZ32 has a little more over all density to it top to bottom. This makes percussive instruments have more impact. Both are as fast but the decay of the Type 80 makes it seem ‘lighter on it’s feet’, a little more ‘air’. Soundstage depth, width and layering are on par and the best so far in my system and room, huge and immersive. The better decay of the Type 80 makes the venue more apparent in live recordings. Voices have a little more emotion with the Type 80 and a little more density with the GZ32. In both cases I’m listening at the same volume setting which I would say is at the high end of the lower level. I have yet to be able to hear all that at that volume level which speaks volumes about the UFO25. I think you’re in for a treat... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by alper_yilmaz on 06/06/19 at 13:36:43 Hey John, GZ32’s are definitely there to stay! Back in the day, I used to use them with my TORII mkII which I sold to a friend later on. I remember buying a pair from Upscale Audio who was reluctant to sell them to me, as the owner was not familiar with Decware at the time and he thought I would just use them on a guitar amp or so. As one of them blew, I had to switch to another set though before selling the amp. After I got the ones from you, I am holding on to them for sure. There is always this ‘grace’ to those tubes, if it ever means anything. Depending on my taste and hearing at the time, they are always a safe bet for me with overall balance and articulation. Cheers, Alper |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 06/07/19 at 13:25:54 Alper, Yesterday I had the GZ32/CV593 in for the day. Currently I’m recovering from my 2nd knee replacement so I’ve got time to do some extensive listening. One aspect of the GZ32 surprised me as I haven’t listened to it for some time. The separation of voices, superb! Not that I don’t get separation of voices with other rectifiers but not to the degree that happens with the GZ32/CV593. The type 80 is back in and I was able to improve the results in that aspect by changing the input tube in CSP-3, but not to the equivalent degree of the GZ32, very good and acceptable, but not the same. It seems that the Mullard is becoming a benchmark for certain attributes against which I can roll to wring out the best from a combination of other tubes. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 06/07/19 at 17:25:37 Interesting how our systems are all different and with different rooms and tastes we have differing results. I just don't get the same warm and fuzzy feelings from my pair of Mullard GZ32s and I actually enjoy the similar RCA 5V4Gs that I have a bit more. I am rolling rectifiers in my CSP2+ that I had upgraded with the Anniversary mods right now, and have an RCA Type 80 in there now that I like a bit more than a Cunningham I had in earlier this week. I'm considering selling some tubes to get one more Sophia Electric Aqua 274B for that preamp, so far nothing has beat it in any of my components, though the Type 80 does have an appeal. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by JOMAN on 06/08/19 at 01:39:58 Actually Lon I don’t think that we are not that far apart with respect to the GZ32. There are different variations of the Mullard GZ32 but that aside despite the strengths of the M-GZ32 it doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzy feeling that you mention and that is why it’s not in my UFO25 now. Since the unfortunate ‘events’ with the Sophia 274B I’ve been retracing some of my previous listening experiences in order to once again arrive at that ‘warm and fuzzy’ state. The Sophia did do that job very well first in my SE84UFO2 and then in my UFO25. Now that job is being done very well with the Type 80 but with a change of input tube in my CSP-3. In fact in some aspects a tad better. As I was retracing my steps I put the GZ32 in so as to refresh my memory and I was very impressed. So as part of this re-direction I will spend some more time with it because if I can get it to go from impressed to warm and fuzzy it will accomplish one other objective that I have set. I’m putting together two options that will get me into that ‘warm and fuzzy’ place. A plan B if you will, just in case. Obviously the two options will not be identical in all aspects and they don’t have to be. For now new production tubes will not be part of this re-direction, whether they be Sophia, EML, Psvane, TJ Full Music etc. Strictly NOS and not necessarily big dollar stuff either, with the exception of a possible U52 ;). ‘Warm and Fuzzy’ struck a chord. It has to be a big part of where I end up and I’ve got a ways to go for Plan B. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 06/08/19 at 02:35:24 I'm sorry your Aquas went south so fast. It's not been my experience and I haven't read of any other early failures like that. To be honest I think if one were to go south on me. . . I'd buy a new one. This is the only rectifier that really gives me whatever I need for a complement of tubes. I can change a voltage regulation tube, or an input tube, or even power tubes (though I haven't explored this as thoroughly as the red-tipped power tubes from Steve seem the very best option clearly) and get great, if different sound, in a all-encompassing way that none of the other rectifiers does give me. It and the power tubes from Steve are the anchor tubes for me now and in effect they are my plan A and plan B. I have tried so many different rectifiers, and there is not another one that does what the Aqua does. I'm hoping mine continue to give me great service but the sound is so "right" with them for me that even if I didn't get much more than a year out of them I'd probably just buy a replacement. A remarkable design and a pudding full of proof for me. I like the Type 80 but it's very much of a "type" for me and takes a lot of work to choose tubes around them and still doesn't give me what the Aqua does. The Aqua is almost "not there" in the way that my ZTPRE (which does NOT have a tube rectifier) is almost "not there." That feeling I get from these is so satisfying. Man these preamps and amps can really deliver. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Alex on 03/13/20 at 09:08:33 It seems like I will try out this 80 tube everyone is talking about. Does anyone know of a reputable source I can buy an 80 tube from? Thanks audiophiles. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 03/13/20 at 10:56:42 Hello Alex, Any of the usual vendors should have some. In addition, there's Ebay ( which is where I bought mine ). FWIW, I'm building a new all DHT amp that uses a different rectifier and won't need the stash of type 80 tubes that I have here ( 10 + or so ). I was going to start posting them on Ebay and Audiogon. Let me now if you might be interested. I've got both straight glass and globes. Cheers, Crazy Bill |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Alex on 03/13/20 at 14:03:38 Thanks for the response crazy Bill. Yes, I’ll be interested. Is there a difference in sound with the straight tube vs the globe? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Dana on 03/13/20 at 14:45:43 Hey Bill Count me in as interested in a 80 globe. Dana |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 03/13/20 at 14:47:06 Haven't got a clue Alex, as I never put either a globe or ST shape in my SE84B or ZP3. They are the older varieties and I didn't want to chance blowing them up, as both amps hit them harder than what they should be. The first cap in the PS is higher in value than recommended. But many users have had no problem. Just haven't made the time to modify the PS to make them safe for the globes. Soon. I actually have all three versions. Globe, ST, and straight. I took photos but can't figure out how to post them here Bill |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 03/13/20 at 14:49:27 So noted Dana. I'll get back |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Alex on 03/13/20 at 14:57:44 Sent you a pm Crazy Bill |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Alex on 03/13/20 at 15:09:55 Thanks Crazy Bill. How much will you be selling them? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 03/13/20 at 16:31:15 There is a difference between the three different types. . . . Can depend on make and which component they are in but. . . the globe is generally a "bolder" more spacious sound, the straight shouldered a tighter, more focused, often warmer sound, and the ST is somewhere in between. That's been my general experience with Type 80s from RCA, Cunningham, Arcturus and one Philco. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 03/13/20 at 17:01:53 Hello Alex, That depends what I paid for them. The only ones I remember off the top of my head are the globes @ $ 75.00/ea. The rest were less. The older the tube the more expensive it was. I will sell them for what I paid for them plus shipping to your location. The two Sylvanias were used less than $ 50 hours so I'll take some bucks off. I'll try to put a list together. All are NOS or test as NOS Bill |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Alex on 03/14/20 at 00:14:37 Cool. I’d like to buy one of the globe 80”s from you. Can anyone please tell me what the other two front bulbs of the SE84UFO2 controls? I wouldn’t mind upgrading those bulbs as well. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by My Name is Earl on 12/03/20 at 23:01:58 Thanks to Kevin’s site (I think 🤔 - this is costing me a bit of coin!) I have collected a few Type 80s, though not the older globe construction. Until this evening I had not really given any of them a serious listen. But, as I just wrote to Kevin in an email, this evening I inserted the first to try, a Sylvania ST. To say I was shocked is an understatement - and shocked in a very good way. I thought my Rogers Canada 5U4GB was an improvement over a 274B from Tubestore, which it was, and the Tubestore 274B was an improvement over the stock tube. To be brief, there is an increase in gain and energy. Bass is fuller without losing much, if any precision. Mids and upper frequencies retain their character but may be a bit improved in clarity/resolution. Vocals are more forward without being too much. Transients and decay are greatly improved. Next up is an Arcturus 80 ST. My current speaker setup is two pair of Large Advent, stacked, which are due for replacement, TBD. Holy crap I can hardly believe the improvement! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by lobo on 12/04/20 at 22:04:37 The RCA ST type is one of my favorites. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 12/04/20 at 22:14:20 Just wait until you try an RCA or Arcturus or Cunningham Type 80 GLOBE! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Jhpugrant on 12/09/20 at 18:02:34 I have yet to try the more expensive rectifiers mentioned here, but a few days ago I received a national union ribbed plate type 80 and it has truly improved the amp in every way. Better low and high extension, a lot more detailed and forward, but still natural. I decided to go with this cheaper NU ($14 on eBay) as I’ve spent a lot on my system recently, and didn’t want to shell out $70+ for a rectifier. This tube is miles ahead of the stock 274b, electro harmonix 5U4GB, and JAN 5Y3GT I’ve tried. This is a great option if anyone is looking for an inexpensive but significant improvement (these are also less expensive than all the other new tubes I’ve tried in this amp). I will definitely try a radiotron 80 and GZ32/CV593 at some point, but for now this is a great option I’d recommend to anyone on a budget. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steel Lab on 01/16/21 at 18:02:03 Friends I'm new to the forum and I found this post about 80 interesting, since I use it in my projects and it really is an excellent tube. But it cannot be used in a 274B or 5U4G socket at risk of burning. I believe that it is necessary to modify the power supply of Decware to use the 80 and especially the 80 globe. I don't have the Decware circuits, but if the power supply is a standard type, using a globe is suicide. A hug Aldovan |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 01/16/21 at 19:10:55 Well, I have used Globe type 80 in my SE84UFO Monoblocks, CSP3, CSP2+ and Taboo Mk IV with ZERO Issues and lots of sonic benefits. I know that Steve uses these on the components as well. So I do believe they are appropriate electrically for these Decware components. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steel Lab on 01/16/21 at 20:16:04 Can you post the power supply schema here? Only then can I say whether it is possible or not. I even saw in the posts that some people lost globe valves. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 01/16/21 at 20:45:57 I can't do it. Perhaps Steve will want to. All I can say is I know they work in my own systems, and I don't perceive any loss of tube life. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steel Lab on 01/16/21 at 20:56:39 Well, I just passed on the information. I got the Zen Tabbo scheme for 2005 and I wouldn't use the 80 in this amplifier without making a change to the power supply. In the other amplifiers I will need to check. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 01/16/21 at 21:18:28 Fine. I and others have been using this tube type without issue--although I must say I realize now I have been using them with components that have the 25th Anniversary mods. Perhaps that is why they work so well. You have many other choices. Steve's photo of the SE84UFO25 with Type 80. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/16/21 at 23:37:04 Hello Steel Lab. As far as I know, 47 uF rectifier caps are standard for many Decware amps. I know for sure they were in my Torii IV and CSP3, as well as in pictures of an earlier Rachel. My Torii III has 33uF PS caps. And both Toriis have chokes to help some with the inrush. I read recently that Steve has lowered the Torii Jr rectifier cap from 47 uF to 8 uF to better accommodate more rectifiers. In my Torii IV, I am now using Clarity TC 45 uF for the input transformer/rectifier PS cap, bypassed with a .1 Miflex Alum/oil, a 0.022 Russian FT2 Teflon, and a Mallory M150 0.01. Though only a little lower value, I wonder if this physically quite large film cap helps with inrush from a cold start. I have actually used some slow heating late 50s Russian 5C4S = 5Z4 = 5Z4G rectifiers, not for extended periods, but many shorter periods, and they are rated for a 5 uF filter cap! Filter cap ratings as your only guide, Type 80s should not work in many Decware amps. And some folks have had problems, but I am like Lon. I have used type 80s for extended periods in my Torii and CSP3, and I have had no failures yet. I also prefer the bigger sounding Globes, especially Philcos. They are more open/neutral than the Cunninghams I have. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/17/21 at 00:26:27 It was funny, I put some 80 Globes in the Torii yesterday and stumbled onto this thread today. I have been revisiting some rectifiers I have not used in a while trying to adapt to pretty powerful and expressive 6SN7s as CSP3 outputs. I was using Philco Globes having liked them best some years ago when I used them more regularly. Then I moved to other rectifiers. Enjoying these 80s again, and having made a lot of changes to my amps, speakers, cables, etc over several years, stimulated by this thread, I decided to check some other 80s. Just now I have in some Tungsol ST 80s, and their slightly tighter/cleaner sound compared to the Philco globes, it quite seductive. More extended on top while still being big sounding and atmospheric, they have an interesting complexity within their enticing smooth solidity. Beautifully transparent transition between notes and rich decays...they sound pretty real to me. 1st impressions are that they are more engaging to me than the Philco Globes with this particular tube set... really good sounding tubes. So now I may have to revisit my preference for globes. I can tell I will be playing with Type 80s for the next few days. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steel Lab on 01/17/21 at 00:35:39 Hello Will The 80 globe was designed for 4uF input capacitors. When you use larger capacitors there is a high chance that the rectifier will burn. To use 47uF capacitors you would need to use a series resistor to limit the inrush current, or use the recommended capacitor value in the datasheet. Even the 5Y3 that are very modern use capacitors with a maximum of 10uF. Well, I am suggesting what is correct. Nothing prevents you from using large capacitors and taking the risk. As I build a lot of amplifiers for myself, I often use expensive rectifiers and these sound divine .... but I take care of the valves, kkkk. Aldovan Visit www.steel-lab.com |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/17/21 at 01:27:43 Hello Aldovan, I completely understand your thoughts. But for me, as long as I am not in a hurry, I have found so many really good sounding rectifiers relatively inexpensively, I have not gone there with really costly ones. If I did, I would very likely also be more influenced by ratings, at least for those rectifiers. None-the-less, I have been impressed with how tolerant many well made old rectifiers are with higher value filter caps than their ratings. Also, as far as I can recall, the only rectifiers that have failed here were properly specced for greater than 47 uF caps. I have seen some of those type 80 and 5Y3 data sheets you mention, but also have run across a number of them like the following, giving a 32 uF cap rating: Type 80: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_80.html http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0296.htm And 5Y3: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0014.htm https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5y3.html So I definitely get your viewpoint, and have little doubt some tubes are more vulnerable to deviation from specs than others. But at the same time, especially with really well made tubes of old, designed and specced for intense use, I have found their ratings can at times be "stretched" a bit while still getting a decent lifespan from them....perhaps truncated in some cases, but decent. Like a lot in audio, just thinking specs are not always the totally "cut and dried" reality. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Archie on 01/17/21 at 06:43:06 Is the Type 80 Globe the same as a Type 80? I use RCA Type 80s in my ZP3 and CSP3 without issue. These aren't the "lightbulb" shaped tubes though. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Steel Lab on 01/17/21 at 08:58:41 Yes, is the same tube, but the type 80 is more robust. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by CAJames on 01/17/21 at 16:46:28 Quote:
My experience is similar to Will's. I think many (certainly many that still survive today) "golden age" tubes far exceed their data sheet specs. Certainly I've never had an old Type 80 fail catastrophically (or at all), but that has happen to me with higher spec'd current production tubes. Now it may very well be that using them e.g. in a Decware amp will shorten their lifespan, but so far that hasn't been an issue either. JMO/FWIW/YMMV of course. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 01/17/21 at 20:01:31 Reading about everyone's exploits of using this tube and that tube, it seems a bit off. Reason being is not everyone here is using the same speakers, pre amps, wires, etc. Of course all are using the Zen amp but it seems to me that just having different speakers is gonna change the sound quality for each listener, or did I miss something??? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/17/21 at 21:16:20 I think you are correct. Along with speakers, pre and wires, room, tube sets, cables, power, frontend, vibration mitigation....I get your thought. But using Decware does narrow the field some, bringing about a certain level of musical transparency and neutrality as a baseline, and many of us support the Decware sound with decent front-ends, decent cables, decent power, decent speakers....also revealing.... But each tube does tend to characteristic sound qualities that influence the whole based on the tube's signature. So though their individual sound is a contribution that influences, and is influenced by a given system, the ways they adjust a system sound will have similar qualities and balances based on the tube signature. If a lot of folks with nice systems like a given tube, that can be a good pointer that the tube works in ways that help many various systems, but even so, it is a bit of a crap shoot when tastes and system/room variations come into it. This is one reason why I try to remember to describe what I hear rather than just saying "I like it," or "it is better." Still not totally predictable, but perhaps helpful for discerning if one might like what a tube type or individual tube within a type might tend to do. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 01/26/21 at 11:18:55 BTW if I choose to try an 80 tube where are you getting the adapter from? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 01/26/21 at 12:04:54 I have bought mine from eBay. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 01/26/21 at 17:49:32 I got mine from ebay also. It is not real clear, but there seem to be a bunch once you find the right search. I have some that look like the following, and both seem good. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-WE274A-5Z3-80-TO-WE274B-5U4G-GZ34-5AR4-Tube-converter-adapter/193443110979?hash=item2d0a1ba043:g:ct4AAOSwQPlV8rOw https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-Adapter-for-5Z3-5U4G-80-5Y3-tube-SUB-U52-274B-Cryo-treatment/262043900604?hash=item3d03089abc:g:PSoAAOSwKIpWFJD6 If the tube is new to you, don't know if you have checked around, but the ST (coke bottle) shape is usually pretty inexpensive, and may be a good place to start. Then if you love it, the more costly globes can be really good sounding too. As Lon said above, "the globe is generally a "bolder" more spacious sound, the straight shouldered a tighter, more focused, often warmer sound, and the ST is somewhere in between." I might add that Type 80s, being more in the 5Y3 family, are generally a little less dense and powerful than 5U4G-ST types, yet still have a complex and solid, natural sound, and generally really nice spacial information. Personally I find 5Y3GTs are too flat dynamics-wise, but don't really feel the type 80s this way. They are not as fast as GZ32 or GZ34, but to me, though a little slow by comparison, they do not seem unduly slow or lacking in dynamics....more having a slightly relaxed, yet pretty lively and real feel to me. So I think type 80s generally give a little lower key and clear image into the music without notable downsides in terms of note body, dynamics and extension, while tending to give a pretty special tonal and spacial representation. The potential caveat - as discussed, there have been Decware folks who had them create a light show and fail. I have not had this happen having tried quite a number of different Type 80s, but apparently based on the actual tubes one gets, those of us who have had good luck, that luck may not always convey! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 01/27/21 at 11:25:14 Ok guys thanks much appreciated... Jay |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 03/13/21 at 12:10:54 Ok guys I got my adapter for the 80 rectifier tubes I tried the ST type first and wasn't really impressed, then I tried the globe type and OH what a difference!!! This tube has made this amp really come to life and sing, I am hearing things that I never heard before specially in the high end.. It has actually made this amp sound better than my 45 amp which I didn't think could happen!!! I am a really happy camper right now, thanks for all the advice.... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 03/13/21 at 12:53:40 Glad you are enjoying the globe type so much. I have been using them in my Taboo Mk IV and CSP2+ both with the Anniversary mods in my living room system and they are just perfect for the sources I use. I have used them in my main system as well, though at present I am using other rectifiers that work really well too (Sophia Electric Aqua in the monoblocks, RCA 5Z3 in the CSP3). It's always surprising how these amps with their sophisticated and uncomplicated circuitry and parts reveal the characteristic of each tube in their complements. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 03/13/21 at 18:20:10 I think I found more sonic variation in the STs than the globes. Though the globes definitely vary, make and vintage effecting sound, I wonder if the big/open globe sound isn't totally related to the big/open globe shape. I haven't used either consistently for years, but testing them several weeks ago, I recalled that I had affection for the STs I have in certain tube sets, the specific tube combination making a lot of difference. I am with Lon on the our amp circuits. It is cool how much they allow the tubes to create our sound. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 03/15/21 at 11:24:59 Well the ST type I tried was a Cunningham and the globe is a Natioal Union that is NOS... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 03/15/21 at 12:09:46 One of my favorite Globes was an Arcturus but it met with a wife-related accident. ;) I have a pair of Cunninghams that are likely RCA, a pair of RCA and a Philco. Subtle differences between the pairs and the Philco; all sound great. I have RCA and Philco labeled ST types. They are okay but don't have the large, open sound of the Globes in my systems. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 03/16/21 at 00:10:08 For me too the globe's open spaciousness is seductive. I have some Cunninghams and Philcos, both with etched bases. These Philco are more transparent and open, and the Cunninghams, a little darker and slightly more "liquid" and euphonic, but less fine detail in the balance, often a deal breaker for me. Today, I did a minor test with the Cunningham Globes compared to Westinghouse STs. And with the tube set I have in now, Torii— Mullard CV4080 (=OC2), mid 40s Hytron OC3, Bugle Boy ECC189, Tubestore Preferred 6L6GC, and the type 80s. CSP3- Telefunken RGN1064, Raytheon tall bottle 6SN7 GTB with top D getter for output, and an RCA 6ES8/ECC189 input, seemingly American made. Starting with the Cunninghams, these are the ones with the metal stub coming out the side of the base. Beautiful looking tubes. The sound was smooth, warm, notably spacious, but a little slow, especially low down, and tending some toward rigid in the mid and highs. I attribute the rigidity when it showed up as a balance issue. To me, not extreme, but the top is noticeably rolled off with these tubes, so less fine detail and space to feather rigidity. Either the slight rolloff, or the tube balancing my amp toward darker tone, I get more mid and bass emphasis, with somewhat less present fine detail, contributing to the low end being a little slow. I depend of fine detail and balanced speed throughout here, and this balance is a little uneven and feels a little veiled. The mids are very clear, but a little incomplete to me, listening carefully, lacking fine information. The Westinghouse STs— In this tube set, by comparison they are still quite spacious, the signal a little more focussed (less obvious ambience) but still with good space and fine detail. Slightly warm, but close to neutral, with tight bass and more speed top to bottom, they are nicely textured and airy with a pretty nice dose of liquidity. They sound like music to me. So in this current setup, this particular ST has less that sticks out to me, and does it all well, making it clear, balanced, and quite musical in a "live" sort of way. More extended on top, I don't notice roll-off with this tube. Whereas with the Cunningham globe, though nice, more balanced toward bass, the bottom is a little thick to me, and it leaves the top information less present. Reminds me that the very top roll off of the Globes was a big part of what got me looking further after my first affair with them. My system has become notably more resolving, textured, spacious, and refined, making all tubes sound better. So I don't know how this plays out. But I recall in the past ending up with globes more, though it was the more open/revealing Philcos. Anyway...what I heard in this little test in my current setup. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 03/16/21 at 11:12:36 As I said before we all have a little different gear and speakers so everything is not apples to apples. My system is tri amped so my UFO is only powering the two mid drivers in my system, with that said I believe I get the best these tubes have to offer in that area... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 03/16/21 at 19:14:55 Hey jcmusic. I see now that yours is a very specific use. And being a complex system, and this particular use, representing a limited part of the spectrum, I can imagine how it might make ultimate tube choices more challenging. But like caps, unless we want to try them all, in seeking a given desire for improvement, the best path I know is to get comparatives from others that describe the tendencies of a tube or cap based on its sonic traits and tendencies. Then we can try to interpret if those sonic tendencies might apply to our specific needs. I agree, variability in different system/rooms, and personal preferences, are givens, and they define what is ideal in a given setup. But also, we see threads of certain tube's character conveying broadly across many systems. In this case, a bunch of us agree that Type 80s are compelling tubes, indicating they can convey their special traits across many systems. So we try to describe what we are getting in our setups in hopes it might help others narrow down choices. But finally, as with reviewers, reviews are most successful for us if we take into account the personal preferences we have come to expect from the writer and how we interpret their system/room as compared to ours. Always a risk for the hard core tuners, but hopefully this process gets us closer to guessing how something might work in our system. Variabilities in tubes, setup, and needs were part of the reason for my recent posts. All Type 80 STs are not alike. And all Globes are not alike. But being Type 80s, each of these subgroups carry similarities, while each individual within each subgroup have their own sonic tendencies. Leading to... For people with very specific needs, and resolving systems, refinement is trickier, with narrow choices, and trying one of a type and not totally loving it, does not necessarily rule out others of the same type. So clearly, a single Type 80 tube might or might not be the ultimate in a given setting, but this might not rule out Type 80s in general for that setting. Some of us have tried STs and Globes, but few have heard the gamut. And with several different Globe and ST makes, and different vintages within each, we can expect notable sonic variations.... Whether Type 80 or ECC88/6922, or whatever tube.... When have you heard two ECC88s that sound exactly alike? Yet the type has expected traits that generally differentiate them from an ECC88/6DJ8, or ECC189. So with two basic types of Type 80s, and a number of different makes and vintages of each.... in most cases each individual tube will exhibit variations on the type themes. So I agree, even if we know we have liked the type, we really can't tell exactly how well another tube of the type will slot into our systems until we try it. But then, plug and play is often not an ideal answer or conclusive. Many of us have found that if the traits of the new tube are compelling in most ways, then fine tuning with other tubes to bring out the best of each in combination, can potentially make the new tube that was not ideal, beautiful. If we are seriously into optimizing sound in fine tuned ways, this to me is a very good reason to work up to at least several of each basic tube type we use, tubes that sound varied, but that we really like, especially in the right company. Then the ability for mixing and matching can result in yet unknown beauty. Based on mixing the traits of different known tubes for the very particular blend and synergy, then 3 or 5 tube positions are what we are tuning into one sound. With skill, luck, and trial and error, the tube type's combined traits can potentially create great beauty. So if we are really particular, I find the time and energy to bring out a compelling rectifier can be well worth it... Round about, this is part of what I thought I was pointing to with my last post. We all know we have different setups, and Lon and you, in your rooms and uses, prefer the Globes you have over the STs you have. And for a long time I preferred Globes overall, but have also enjoyed STs at times. And for me, my globe preference was one Globe type, earlier Philcos. Then I did this test yesterday without adjusting anything, no tube changes other than changing the Torii rectifiers from my current favorite Telefunken RGN1064s, to only one Type 80 Globe, and only one ST type. And for this specific setup, plug and play, I prefer the Westinghouse STs I have over the Cunningham Globes I have. They both sounded really good, but for this tube set, with this limited test, and with very careful listening, I was actually surprised to like this ST quite a bit better than this globe. Looking more specifically at tube variations within system variations, and the validity (or not) of the analysis of others as tools.... Being to my tastes, both my systems have similar traits, but are definitely different. And pre stages and amps each have different sonic qualities.... so different gear, power treatment, different tube combinations, different cables, different feet, etc, the combination creating the character of each system. Yet I hear sonic fundamentals of any rectifier moving it from one amp to another, or one system to another. The same tube has the same sonic traits in all cases. Now depending on how the specific setup and room adjust those traits, defining what is "the best," is hard to say. But if I put in a Philco globe in any of them, I hear a Philco globe sound. Obviously levels of listening discernment and communication efforts and skills also play into all the many wildcards inherent to how something sounds in a complex system... I personally have never gotten much from comments like "the best tube," or "the worst tube," without context. But also, "translation" of well perceived and written impressions most often requires interpretation as to how these impressions relate to our particular systems. So I agree it all depends on a lot of things. But I have also noticed that tubes have traits that can convey pretty well, especially across Decware, all Decware voiced with Steve's preferred parts, and to his preferred sonic balance and "flavor." My take anyway. ;) |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 03/16/21 at 23:51:49 Will, It's ok to feel the way you do the difference here is that you have change all or most of your tubes in the amp. Where I have only changed the rectifier tube, that in itself makes a huge difference in what we hear and describe to other. One day I may decide to try other tubes but, for now I am pretty darn happy with just changing the rectifier tube. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 03/17/21 at 00:38:09 Quote:
Nice! I am glad you found the beauty easily! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 03/17/21 at 11:16:33 At Will, As I said before my amp is only driving the two mid drivers between 400 hz and 6000 hz everything above and below is driven by different amps. It kind of makes it easier to roll the tubes as any changes are very noticeable... |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by will on 03/17/21 at 15:35:25 Nice! I think tube changes are quite noticeable full spectrum using these amps also, but your tri-amp setup sounds really cool! |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by LeftyEric on 02/06/22 at 21:47:10 Let me see if I can revive this thread. I've been a cronic tube roller. It's a bit of a problem, and step 1 is admitting it right?! That said - I've bought some tubes from ebay with varied results. Yup, I indeed check the reviews and the outfit itself, as well as review exactly how they are testing tubes & how they consider them 'matched pairs'. All in hopes to try and vet as much as possible before buying. Ebay has been fine overall but I always hold my breath a bit. I've also bought tubes from Brent Jessee, which has been an excellent experience every time. He simply doesn't always have the tubes in stock I'm looking for. Which brings me to my question: Where else should I look to find a matched pair of RCA globe 80's? . I also want to play this game with my very soon coming back from repair from Steve SE84UFO3 monos. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/06/22 at 22:00:44 I've actually had good luck with eBay on Type 80s, though admittedly bought a few years ago and the prices seemed cheaper then. They work well in the Monoblocks, though in my modded SE84UFO3 Monoblocks I've fallen in love with RCA 5V4G rectifiers. They are not as "holographic" as the Globes BUT they have the tonality and a relaxed feel to the presentation that I have become addicted to. (My source was also recently changed to a highly modded version of the same PS Audio DSD DAC I have used for years and that may have something to do with it.) So I'm no help with other sources. Best of luck with the search. The place where the Type 80 Globe has become stuck is the CSP3 with mods. An RCA or a Philco have been in there a long time. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by CAJames on 02/06/22 at 22:11:13 Quote:
That is a pretty specific order. There are probably a dozen or more "tube stores" similar to Brent Jessee (although he would be at or near the top of the list) that might be able to help you. My advice would be to google e.g. "nos tubes" and just email a bunch of places and see if they have what you are looking for. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by jcmusic on 02/07/22 at 11:40:08 Has anyone compared the ST type 80 to the Globe type 80 rectifier tube? If so what were your findings? |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by Lon on 02/07/22 at 12:15:36 There are some comments to this effect from Will and I and I think a few others in the forum. My impression: the coke bottle shaped Type 80 I have used are quite nice and sound to me very similar to the tube type that followed them, the 5Y3 in that shape. And they have a warmer, less open and expansive sound. The Type 80 Globe present in my systems as less warm, noticeably more "holographic," and a bit more dynamic. I have a few pair of earlier small straight Type 80 that are interesting. They present a condensed and focused sound that is really well-suited for solo instruments, chamber music, small jazz combos, Bossa nova, etc. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by piezoman on 02/15/22 at 19:07:55 Try the AZ1 with adapter…..bests the 80 type and cuts on the jazzy haze. |
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Title: Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen Post by LeftyEric on 02/16/22 at 17:36:01 1954 RCA 5u4G's on the way as the baseline for NOS rectifiers. It seems like a common starting point, and often an ending as well. I also have some 0D3s on the way. Seeing if they add a touch of warmth and low end to the sound. (Reading folk's impressions seem to lean this way.) Converters for the type 80 (and other potential rectifiers) on the way. I'm searching from a good testing pair of RCA's globes to buy. No luck yet. In general, seems like NOS tubes of all types are going up in price! Supply and demand in full effect. Even over just the past few years I've seen large price increases. I'll read up on the AZ1's. Thanks for introducing yet another option to review. Love that they are reasonably priced too. Waving the magic wand - I'd like to hear more warmth, and perhaps a larger soundstage and some more instrument separation. That said, the monos sound excellent already. My Tekton Perfect Sets with the SE85UFO3's w/ poly cap upgrade is a transient-fest. So fast and detailed already. |
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