Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Fuses https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1493401718 Message started by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 18:48:38

Title: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 18:48:38 I know, I know.  Controversial topic for some, but I have had experience with them in the past in my SS amp and felt they "worked." So I popped a fuse the other day with an arcing rectifier (forgot to toss it when I knew it was bad) so I had to go to my spare.  Now I figure it gives me an excuse to buy one and test it in my Decware amps. I believe the people here who say that there are differences in fuses and I know the usual suspects (Hifi tuning, etc.), but was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for some "budget" fuses that might take me a little further than stock without breaking the bank.  I'm talking less than $50 if that's possible. This is for Rachael, but I might buy one for the Torii as well. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Lon on 04/28/17 at 18:52:22 I've had great success with these fuses, use them in my Torii, ZP3 and CSP2+ . . . .One "direction" works better than another, so if you get one I recommend burning it in a few days one way and then reversing it and keeping it in the way that sounds best to you. https://thecableco.com/product.aspx?iid=9989

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 18:54:03 Thanks Lon.  A little over my budget, but not bad.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Lon on 04/28/17 at 18:56:18 Yes, they were cheaper when I bought them nearly three years ago and in part because I get a "repeat customer discount" from the vendor; my invoice shows I paid 46 each for them. Really nice fuses though, I've tried a few others and like these the best. Just a hint of warmth, presence is enhanced just right, bass is great.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 22:20:40 I found this article that I hadn't seen before.  Seems there are a few out there that are not too expensive. http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com/2014/01/aftermarket-fuses-synergistic-research.html I did see on ebay that hifi tuning silver stars are still available for $20 delivered.  Might try one of those just to see. Schurters for $10 from Hong Kong.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Rivieraranch on 04/28/17 at 22:21:54 Do you have two in there in case one blows?

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 22:24:03 I have just one now, but I can pull one of the two from my other Rachael in case that one goes. I have pretty good protection with the P5.  This one just blew because I put in that bad rectifier.  Why I didn't toss it when it arched the last time I will never know.  Just glad I didn't have an expensive fuse in there at the time.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Rivieraranch on 04/28/17 at 22:27:56 Does Steve recommend slow blow fuses or fast blow?

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/28/17 at 22:59:07 Manual says either. I don't think Steve has positive feelings about expensive fuses.  I still remember busting a gut when he commented about taping one to a certain part of his anatomy.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by will on 04/29/17 at 01:42:05 Furutech power things show impressive skill with bringing out fine detail with warmth, but for me the blue fuses were too warm, preferring more transparency. I was using an oversized fuse though...6.3A where the Torii calls for 5A, and since bigger power cables tend to cause bigger/deeper sound, I thought this could have been part of my problem with the fuse. If warmth appeals, I did see they are under 50 at VHAudio for the small fuses. The (now cheap) Silver stars are quite clean and complete as I recall, having a quality "silver" feel. I have used them in the CSP3 a fair bit. For those who don't "believe" fuses make a difference, I recommend stopping now. I don't want to be responsible for apoplexy! I have been exploring cut up WA Quantum Stickers on caps, chips, connections and clocks in my Gustard x20pro DAC, something others had found helpful. Interestingly, whatever they do did not tend to develop fully for a day or so. But once it did, the WA Stickers were very impressive, transparently making the part they were on like a better part...cheap electrolytic caps starting to sound like nicer film caps. It is interesting moving them around, and adding or subtracting them. The clarifying effects can go too far, especially in certain places....dissecting the sound. Up to that point, the WA seem quite neutral and transparent to me, bringing out all the good gracefully, giving better coherence, smoothness, space and fine detail, but otherwise, leaving the tonal values pretty intact. If too much, the hyper cleaned signal builds focus and loses the connectedness and integration needed for musical quality.... Luckily, I went with the advice of others and cut them up to start with. After that, Telos stickers, being the same idea, but different design/materials, seemed worth a try. They are supposed to basically clean and empower the signal. In the DAC, 1st they focussed and clarified with good balance, but after a few hours, the heightened signal flow and quality increased tonal density and clarity too much for me, making for a harder sound...too pushed... The density focused more macro detail, leaving the still present micro detail underneath, while the bigger signal caused the mids-down to be stronger in the balance...this could work really well in lean systems I think, but not here. Looking for a place where these Telos could work before cutting them, I put one on a small, slow blow glass fuse. Aha! In the MKIV, with a 5 amp cheap glass fuse, when the sticker is added, the sound smooths while enhancing detail complexity, space and textures...With increased focus and density overall, more detail complexity does not sound too detailed, supported by the smoother, denser, deeper signal. Though denser, the clarified signal balances pretty nicely here. Not night and day, but clearly noticeable, this sound is sort of in-between the more fragile and brittle open clarity of cheap glass fuses, and the too smooth vibe of some ceramic audio fuses. I like it. Encouraged by finally liking the Telos I cut one in half, and put it on the speaker end of the positive speaker cable. Nice! Cleaner with a bit more density, but in balance...remaining neutral. So I tried some 1/2s in the DAC on the power-to-board connectors. Again, it improved signal clarity, smoothly, with nice density, and without losing tonal balance. Where a whole sticker had been too much, now they helped clean up the signal musically and with their own flavor, more dense and focussed than the WA, but still nicely balanced. Trouble with Telos, is they sell them a bunch at a time for $100, but with a 30 guarantee (Tweekgeek) not a terrible risk. Just now I had to try a WA fuse chip on the standard glass fuse. First impressions....here the Telos cleaning came with beefed up signal density and focus (pleasantly), the WA more transparently clarified the signal. Compared to no sticker, the sound became more coherent, a bit bigger, more open, and complex, with loads of fine detail smoothly brought out. Rough edges and stridency were smoothed while everything good refined with less noise and increased very fine detail. Nice! An improvement on the stock fuse similar to many audio fuses. The cool thing about the stickers...if you leave a little backing on, then tape them on the fuse with masking tape, they can be moved from a blown fuse. And they make a harsh fuse do a lot of what expensive fuses do. It does not totally compare to the Synergistic Research Red here, that one having exceptional refinement and spaciousness, but it is also about $10 with most of that interchangeable (the sticker). VHAudio has the fuse chip for $9. Not much risk. I am going to leave on the WA for for a day or two, and see if/how it changes. My system/room is very revealing, but I think yours is too Pal so I am guessing you will hear them.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Jeff of Arabica on 04/29/17 at 07:09:22 I have had success using the Acme Audio Labs silver cryo treated fuses with the "Special Sauce."  The silver cryo tubes run $12 each and $16 with their "Special Sauce" coating. These are ceramic body fuses and I have them in place on several of my Decware amps.   This is what they say about the Special Sauce: Special Sauce This is the name given to the coating available on several Acme Products. It is a combination of materials designed to improve sonic performance. http://www.acmeaudiolabs.com

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Rivieraranch on 04/29/17 at 15:19:32 Isn't "ACME" the brand of dynamite and stuff that Wile E. Coyote always used to try and get the Road Runner.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Donnie on 04/29/17 at 15:50:25

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Acetone on 04/29/17 at 16:03:12 Sale on fuses at  www.partconnextion.com I use the Hi-Fi good with good results.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Jeff of Arabica on 04/29/17 at 17:16:34 I also have Hi-Fi Silver Stars.  I feel they Acme's are on par, and slightly cheaper.   The Acme's do sound dynamite!   ;D

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Palomino on 04/30/17 at 00:57:32 I may also buy the acmes for a comparison.   If I get a lift I may check out some more expensive ones like the furman. Thanks everyone.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by will on 05/03/17 at 00:18:57 So I have been exploring stickers on standard 5 amp slow blow fuses (Radio Shack glass with little round bumps mid wire) in my Torii. I got on to the stickers because I was modifying a DAC, and after a number of recommendations from others modifying this DAC, I tried them. I was pretty amazed at the effects as described above in post 9. Meanwhile I was trying some old GZ32 tubes with really little cathode tubes going through very small top mica holes. I am not sure how much this was an issue but they were prone to arcing across the cathode-to-mica space on warmup. I loved the tube's sound so tried carefully watching them during warmup, and if they started to arc, cut them off fast, tapped gently hoping to dislodge particles that may be causing the shorts, and tried them again. This seemed to work, but on occasion they would still arc when cold, blowing a fuse if I did not catch it soon enough, but not shorting out the tube! I had grown to dislike standard fuses after years of using good audio fuses, but wanted to see if I could get these tubes sorted out. Blowing some fuses, I was suffering the more brittle, less smooth, more-distortion sound of the cheap fuses as I explored these fragile tubes. Luckily I had remembered to put in a standard fuse before I tried these very old rectifiers. It occurred to me to try the stickers on a fuse, and results with a round Telos Quantum Sticker were really pretty solid, as described above. I was also initially impressed with WA stickers, but wanted to give them a few days to settle and see what happened. The WA are very clarifying here, loaded with fine details, at first seeming all good...But by the next day, they were seeming too intense in one part of the midrange. I could not tell exactly what was up, but they were giving me listening fatigue, like one area of the signal was too powered up. Not good for me...too intense. Then, I tried the Telos and WA together, thinking the more low end emphasis of the Telos might balance the WA. This was a really good, nicely balanced sound with great fine detail, smoothness, and excellent body. But as I had found in the DAC, when there are too many stickers, or they are in the wrong places, they can be too powerful, too much signal density and/or too much signal clarification. In this case it was a bit of both, but close. Might be just right in a leaner system. So I went back to the Telos sticker only, and really like it in my current setup, if perhaps a little intense. The WA alone was messed up for me, but in a dark system missing fine detail, may be good...don't know. Also, I have used the WA fuse stickers on higher quality fuses, and really like them. There are a couple on good fuses in other places in my system now. So it is partially how they effect these particular glass fuses compared to nice audio fuses. And I do not know how system specific these things are. But from these tests they seem a worthy exploration...ending up with fuses that sound better inexpensively, and without worry about blowing them...just move the stickers. I will next try a WA and Telos together, cut into smaller pieces, could be good! ;)

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Acetone on 06/26/18 at 16:17:15 In anticipation of the future my UFO25 I decided it was time to upgrade the fuse in the Zstage & Zrock2. Upon close examination of the fuses currently in both I see that Decware installed Schurter. I've purchased the upgraded Ceramic fuses from Schurter and have installed them. So far all sounds very good...perhaps some small improvement, but time will tell. Fuses bought from seller on Ebay. $8 ea.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by JOMAN on 06/26/18 at 17:05:59 Another vote for ceramic body fuses.  I experimented with the pricier fuses such as Hi Fi Tuning as well as some basic ceramic body fuses before I got into Decware components.  I don’t think I paid much more than a buck or two a piece for the ceramic body fuses.  These were better than the expensive “audiophile” fuses as well as the stock glass body that came stock.  IMO worth the effort and I will be trying them again in all my components.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by Acetone on 06/26/18 at 21:45:32 Hey Joman,  I too have Hi-Fi gold fuses in the SE84CKC & ZP3. Since I found that Steve uses this brand I felt why not try 'em, Steve hasn't steered me wrong yet!

Title: Re: Fuses Post by 4krow on 06/26/18 at 22:59:51 I won't comment on the sound of fuses, but I will make mention of prepping any fuse with De-Oxit or like compound. This is to make the best possible connection between the fuse and it's holder. Many times I have seen corrosion or gritty contact areas with fuse holders.

Title: Re: Fuses Post by maddog07 on 07/12/18 at 23:50:17 +1 for ceramic fuses... they are typically sand filled... to absorb flash/current when they blow, but I suspect this has something to do with the perceived difference in sonic performance. I once had a huge, arc welder, SS amp with fuses on each of the + and - rails of each channel.  One time I had the amp open, while it was in use and observed the fuse element wires "torqueing" "twitching" to the beat of the music.... switched to sand filled ceramics just as a SOP from that point on.  Have the ceramics in my Decware.... have never tried to A/B them.  Have some of the HiFi Tunings laying around in inventory too - but not in a type/rating for my Decware gear.  Have used them in sources and preamps.

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