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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> UFO on ZMA? https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1467814355 Message started by tes on 07/06/16 at 15:12:35 |
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Title: UFO on ZMA? Post by tes on 07/06/16 at 15:12:35 Possibilities? Any updates? Thank you |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA Post by Archie on 07/06/16 at 16:09:48 It's my understanding that the ZMA is already Ultra-linear. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA Post by Archie on 07/06/16 at 16:46:32 From the manual: "The Zen Mystery Amp is a class A push-pull tube amplifier featuring an ultra linear ouput stage with zero negative feedback." |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA Post by tes on 07/06/16 at 20:42:32 Ok... but I thought that the UFO transformer represented an extended bandwidth design with doubled laminations and silver wire. (from Steve's writing in the "DECWARE UFO MOD" thread) Isn't class A PP ultralinear circuit topology? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/07/16 at 16:54:22 For whatever my conjecture is worth, I think the ZMA transformers are already custom built for the ZMA and since it's Steve's "Award Winning Amplifier," I would guess that if the new UFO transformers made it better he would jump on it. I don't have any technical understanding though. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/07/16 at 19:21:28 I believe that to be so as well Archie. The ZMA is a musical machine as is. Especially, since the serendipity I just had blessed on me. I'm running my ZMA direct from ZDSD and it has never sounded better! Something has burned in for the better......... . Density, weight ~ slam, speed/PRaT....transparency.............TONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!! The serendipity comes in with me running my new ARC LS17 SE, vs. CSP3 and then no PRE .......to my now very seasoned Zen Mystery Amplifier, Adagio Speaker Caps and all Kables. As stated in the above paragraph....I'm in bliss. The Audio Research LS17 SE? It is F'in spectacular, running my Big Rig downstairs! Pushing 70 hours on cooking those new proprietary CAPS in her. Takes that Rig to a whole other level...... . XLR IC coming for the LS17 SE to my Amps XLR Inputs. Cheers. PS, yes the LS17 SE @ $5500.00 sold well. I like even more @ $2795.....delivered........... . The LS17 SE has seven inputs (including the processor input), two of which are balanced. There are four outputs, record and main output 1 (both single-ended) and two balanced outputs. She/LS17, stays in the Big Rig. My Listening Room is set/with ZDSD direct to ZMA..............as good as the new level the Big Rig has been risen to with the LS17 SE -- ZDSD direct to ZMA crushes it! Cheers again. Listening Room: Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Extremely Significant} Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder *************************************************************** W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S! *************************************************************** (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192) WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier ~BIASED at *60* mA~ (NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's) From 0 Gain to: 20, 25, 30, or 35 ~ 40% max *************************************************** Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades *************************************************** Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified) .....from 8ohm Taps Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross (Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone) XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3 (Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output) NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA, (matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin): (Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~ 2 pair (both pair Cryogenic) (US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic) (Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair (Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/08/16 at 16:53:14 Stone, didn't you try your ZMA direct once before? Several months back I tried my TT direct into the ZMA and really liked it until I put my CSP3 back in and found I was missing some density that I preferred. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/09/16 at 19:55:26 Yes, I've tried it two or three times. In my recent rotation it just struck me to be even more real and with weight without any Pre. And you know with the CSP3 it is pretty damn real. I've played quite a few disc's and something has burned in or changed for the better. I will bring my ARC LS17 SE, back up to the ZMA, after a month of break-in of these SE Caps. I have it running TV, Sirius radio, Movies and my Pro-Ject TT. Trying the ARC Balanced to Amp next week. Ultimately, I want the ARC with the ZMA.... But right now = no..... . |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/09/16 at 20:55:34 Quote:
That's pretty cool and a reminder that these are "living" systems that change with time. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/11/16 at 19:28:00 I agree Archie (like it is living and growing for the better). I'm so pleased running my ZMA without a Pre now! As stated above a few posts.....I rotated the LS17 SE, CSP3, an with no Pre. I prefer it without a Pre now. I would have kept my CSP3.....but, nope I did sell it. ....and now, someone is going to get a great price on an ARC LS17 SE. I can't justify keeping it in my downstairs Rig and it has no place in my Listening Room Rig now. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/12/16 at 00:11:30 Stone, don't be hasty selling the pre. You might come around the circle again! Or maybe this is all a good excuse to get Steve's new pre? ;) |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/12/16 at 01:46:23 I know right? I never say never. But, with the rotation of the two Pre's and I did own the CSP3 for 27 months running my ZMA..... . I am so enjoying the density breakthrough I'm calling it....and speed with weight and detail and overall cohesiveness of the music being run direct from my ZDSD to ZMA. Contributing to Steve's awesome ears/voicing of the ZDSD and ZMA.....are my low noise floor IC and Speaker Cables and Powercord to ZDSD. Plus, 29 months of playing my ZMA WITH and without Pre and gain area's of the knob from 20 to 40% up to 55% on the ZMA (Now).....total seasoning of all mentioned.... And caps in my Adagio's and the Driver's....I can play loudly with such clarity now and density (sans pre's)...I was freaking out today.....just magic. .....NOS 6922 tube types are stellar too. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/12/16 at 15:39:43 Stone, you should keep the pre. There will come a day when you acquire a Decware amp that requires a pre. You might disagree but Steve's mind is forever going and you will never know what he has to offer next year. Keep the pre. One thing I know about Steve and Decware is that they are never done. Question, I gather the ZMA is integrated and comes with some kind of pre built in, right? Does Decware make a ZMA without the built in pre? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/12/16 at 16:48:25 The ZMA, like all of Steve's amps, can run directly from the source without using a pre but it isn't an integrated amp (amp and pre in one package). |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/12/16 at 17:37:24 I have an original blue Torii and it has no volume control of any kind so the only way I know of managing it is with a preamp. Just sayin'. I wonder what that Torii would sound like with a CSP3. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Lon on 07/12/16 at 17:51:25 Possibly a bit better than how it sounds with your CSP2, but very similar is my guess. The fabled blue Toriis. . .bet that's a good combo. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Archie on 07/12/16 at 18:20:43 I should have said "current amps"! :) Anyway, the ZMA sounds fantastic either way although I think what you get out depends on what you put in. Even with my TT into a ZMC1 then ZP3 I prefer the extra weight I get with my CSP3 into the ZMA. I don't have any experience with other Decware amps. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Lon on 07/12/16 at 18:38:51 So much is system dependent, and also in some senses owner specific. We work so hard to make our systems what we want them to be. The same basic equipment in the hands of different owner with different ways they want the system to be can make interesting differences. I go back and forth between no preamp and CSP2+ with my DirectStream and Torii Mk III. Generally I prefer no preamp in between. The DirectStream really IS a great preamp imo and the CSP2 always adds something that I hear, and hear as a slight colored veil. Probably if I kept working with tube complements I might fix this, but I've tired of the efforts. When I have the CSP2+ in I'm happy for a bit and then it finds its way out of the signal path for the DirectStream. What it does do is nice for my Denon player's high res output and for the ZP3, so that works out well with the two Torii inputs. I'm listening to a beautiful Redbook cd of Jobim compositions played and sung by Vinicius Cantuaria and the sound is so so good. This is the life, I'm grateful. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 15:47:12 Definitely System dependent. I took a risk on the ARC and it will cost me. However, I had to know. The serendipitous discovery was......I am enjoying my ZMA without Pre'(s). 110+ hours on the LS17 SE, gave me its ARC house sound. However, it comes with a slight veil. Even if that veil was to lift, lets say at 180+ hours.....I'm still not into the ARC sound. Steve's voicing/topology portrayal, is more real to the TONE of instruments, that ARC gear I've heard now at home and instore.....never gets quite there for me. However, like I said...I had to know/have a nice ARC Pre in my room and decide for myself. An ARC lover is getting a good deal on Agon coming soon....and I can see the appeal running a negative feedback big solid state or ARC tube amp. But never say never.....going back to a Pre. It would need to be Steve's ZTPRE. However, what I'm flowing from ZDSD through ZMA (and my cabling, NOS/Platinum 6922 tube types and Mr. Lee's brilliant: Adagio's, Transmission-line system featuring a 1.5 inch circular ribbon tweeter and dual 6.5 inch midrange/woofer "underhung" voice coil, ceramic-coated drivers-shielded, 7-ounce Neodymium magnets~MODIFIED of course) is not hyperbole. Pure beauty. You guys know how good Decware is. Listening Room: Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Extremely Significant} Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder *************************************************************** W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S! *************************************************************** (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192) WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier ~BIASED at *60* mA~ (NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB Inverter Tubes~New NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's) From 0 Gain to: 20, 25, 30, or 35 ~ 40% max (some Recordings/up to 45 to 50% gain~rarely) *************************************************** Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades *************************************************** Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified) .....from 8ohm Taps Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross (Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone) XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3 (Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output) NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA, (matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin): (Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~ 2 pair (both pair Cryogenic) (US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic) (Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair (Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 15:55:33 What is the ARC house sound? Overly tubey? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 16:03:56 http://www.10audio.com/arc_ls17se.htm A good read and fair assessment. Worth your time. I've known it for years....being part of the MN Audio Society.....way back. I have been to and Listened to, ARC at ARC, 3 times. Of course, just had a piece in. Great stuff, ....just each to their own. Steve's portrayal is more REAL and that extra Tone/TIMBRE.....is to die for....from Decware. Cheers. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 16:35:39 Is it me or does the description of the ARC resemble the description of the Van Alstine preamp. I've never heard either of these units but they sound as if there are similar philosophies in their creation and design. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 16:45:59 Particularly important in that read, is the 6H30 vs. 6922/7DJ8/7308/E188CC.....tube types AND topology. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong....just your or my preference. I prefer, obviously.....the 6922 tube types with Steve's brilliant topology Amp design. As for your observation question....maybe so. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 16:59:15 One thing I gleaned was the reviewers use of the 7DJ8. I'm going to order a couple a check those out. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 17:24:31 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/tungsram-pcc88-7dj8/#null I have Tungsram 7DJ8's.......very nice. I will probably get the Pope's from Kevin too. http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/pope-pcc88-7dj8/ |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 17:45:20 Stone, what is your asking price on the ARC? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 18:07:38 $2450 + PayPal fee and shipping. I will eat the Agon fee per usual fare. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by maddog07 on 07/13/16 at 19:55:53 since ARC went to using the 6H30's instead of the 6DJ8/6922/7308/E88CC/etc/etc/etc/ family of tubes, to my ears, they all have a house sound. I would not classify any of these ARC products that I've heard since the late 90's as "tubey" at all. I prefer the older ARC pre's like the LS-25 MK.I or REF-1 which do you use the 6DJ8 family of tubes. I had a LS-25 MK.I for years, which I liked a lot. Tube rolling is severely limited with 6H30's which limits one's ability to fine tune the sound to their liking. Every 6H30 based product I've heard - was not my cup of tea - but many folks like them. My current reference tube pre is the Aesthetix Calypso. Once the dust settles around the ZTPRE, I will give it an audition. It's sonics will have to be extraordinarily over-the-top, completely off-the-scale, giant-killing to cause me to give up the functionality and flexibility of the Calypso, which to my ears, in my system, is also the best sounding preamp I have yet had the privilege of owning. It uses both the 6DJ8 and 12AX7 family of tubes which allow you to roll nearly endlessly. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Lon on 07/13/16 at 20:01:59 That was Paul McGowan's favorite preamp too, at least until the new PS Audio one.;) |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/13/16 at 20:31:22 Yes, ARC Pre's are not tubey....as I eluded to and the link I provided in Reply #20, clearly states the 6H30 vs. 6922 tube types which is my experience. Matter of taste...not my cup of tea either. Fortunately, I've received great deals on cables and gear in both of my Rigs to more than cover my losses of experimentation....... . The best Pre is no Pre. My NOS Tube rolling stash....direct from ZMA ....fed by my ZDSD is all one needs, with great cabling and great speakers. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 20:42:56 I'm looking for tubey. I mean, why have tubes and not be tubey. No one gets a Marshall to not be tubey. Besides, I have a mid-fi setup at best at the moment and something like this ARC may be out of sync with the rest of the setup. The CSP3 may be the thing for where I am. I know the ZTPRE is beyond what I need. Unless, Steve has a CSP4 already in the works. I mean, it is due. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by maddog07 on 07/13/16 at 20:54:07 that's exactly who I found out about the Calypso from nearly 3 years ago now. And Paul found out about it from Arnie Nudell of Infinity/Genesis. At the outset, I used the same tubes in my Calypso that Paul recommended as well, but have since moved on to some different NOS tubes that I like better. Paul once commented that the Calypso was the preamp responsible for him completely reevaluating the need/purpose/necessity of having a preamp in the chain at all, in our nearly pure digital world. For years, he was in the no preamp, DAC straight to amp camp. Obviously that has changed with the BHK preamp that just started shipping. I haven't heard any of PSA's latest electronics. I've been considering giving the DirestStream Jr. a spin. I hesitate to spend thousands on a DAC - the technology is still moving too fast. The minute you write the check, it's obsolete. The FPGA based DAC's I guess do allow for some updates to be made, so as not to render last months greatest to a nearly worthless metal box this month. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by maddog07 on 07/13/16 at 20:57:37 Older ARC pre's, based on 6DJ8/6922/7308/etc., can sound as tubey as you want depending on the tubes you choose. Look for a LS-25 MK.I - good functionality and you can roll to your hearts desire. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/13/16 at 21:06:44 Speaking of tubes; how many tubes does a pre need? I read that the 6H30 is a super tube and last a long time and can take the place of many other tubes at once like the 6922. However, they say the Conrad Johnson ET3 is very tubey in sound and I think it only has 1 tube, a 6922. What's up with that? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by beowulf on 07/13/16 at 21:47:54 stone_of_tone wrote on 07/12/16 at 01:46:23:
@ stone ~ It's quite possible that the new mono's will need a preamp ... I would hold onto the CSP3 (if you haven't sold it already) if you are at all interested in the 6C33C mono blocks. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Lon on 07/13/16 at 22:36:27 Md have you ever compared it to a Decware Pre? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/14/16 at 15:18:40 Beowulf, will see what Steve says about gain controls on the new Mono's over on the development thread. Good questions posed...... . I am interested in them. After he finishes the chassis this winter....maybe next summer I go listen to them with the ZTPRE....running all balanced into the new Mono's and have to have them/with the ZTPRE. So yeah, I never say never. Currently though, I am enjoying the purity of my ZMA with no Pre. I did sell my CSP3. Preamp is necessary of course in my other Rig for the obvious of multiple sources. If my ARC LS17 SE does not sell in 59 days on Audiogon....it will go back into my solid state Rig. I do enjoy the 6H30 output tubes running my behemoth Amp to SRS SDA 1.2's. I can run it balanced to the behemoth as well. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/15/16 at 18:37:38 Dammit! I hate when I do premature stuff. So, I list the LS17 SE on Agon. Well, then of course, why not run it in the Listening Room and tube roll my ZMA with the 6H30's of the ARC. Well, the Telefunken's (Inputs ZMA) are beautiful man with the 6H30's/LS17. Of course, you don't get the 100% Harmonic Richness produced by the ZMA ran direct. No Pre can do it. But, what I'm giving up in a little Decware Harmonic's...I'm getting what a Pre is for (me)........crunching just a little more dynamic's with a little more weight....with LS17 SE, when you want it. Now, my Mullard's just need to be ran direct from now on, using ZDSD to ZMA and the Tele's and I bet my Ediswan's love the 6H30's into them via ARC! My set up is easy to switch on the floor from Pre to Direct, now, depending on the Listening Session. Use the Pre or not....... . Well, someone is going to have to accept my asking price, for me to sell the LS17 SE. Lets face it....it should burn in a little more too. To heck with ever putting it in my other Rig again too. I just manned up and I f'd up....I should just remove the Classified now. I can take being wrong about something that gives me two types of Sonic Bliss. I will recover. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed....but I do figure things out from time to time. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/15/16 at 20:29:39 It isn't over until the item is shipped. CANCEL the sale. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/17/16 at 17:30:01 Yes. Listing canceled, Match. The dynamic's, the huge soundstage....that is more real, with the best imaging I've ever heard out of the ZMA. Concise bass slam....to say the least....and not getting in the way. These SE Caps are burning in nicely. 8-) 8-) Plus, I'm running unbalanced. ARC made damn sure it will rock your world via premium low noise floor RCA's. It does. Cheers. PS-and of course, as mentioned above, the Mullard's are special being run direct from ZDSD to ZMA (inputs Mullard). The best of both world's....running my ZMA with and without the PRE............ . |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/18/16 at 20:38:00 What I'm hearing today out of the ARC LS17 SE to ZMA.....I get why Audio Research got away from the 6922 tube types. ARC topology with the 6H30's as output Preamp tubes.....just gets out of the way of the music. So, I don't miss my CSP3. The SOUNDSTAGE and additional weight and PRaT are just so much more real..... . However, I DO want and like my signature I can create with the 6H30's running into my ZMA inputs....currently Telefunken E88CC's. I found that my Mullard's like to be ran direct.....I'll see how the rest of my NOS Platinum tubes sound with and without the LS17 SE Pre.....fun! Right now, 6H30's to Tele's/ZMA......stunning. Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier ~BIASED at *60* mA~ (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC's in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~New NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's) Footnote: Today (a day later)....I put my Tungsram E88CC/6922's in and running ZDSD direct to ZMA....Pre not needed! I think I'm sticking with the ZMA direct......that real Decware sound....always consistent on a huge soundstage. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/20/16 at 13:05:58 LS17 to LS17 SE: replaced the LS17’s large coupling capacitors with ones taken from the LS27. Then they added the same Teflon bypass capacitors used in the Reference 5. These Caps are finally burning in I think! I had an ah hah, moment last night! But, right now, still think I like my Mullard's direct with no Pre....but my other NOS tube pairs so far......the LS17 SE creates a whole new world of music. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/22/16 at 17:54:11 Well, it's official and I will shut about it ;D....I'm just excited. I love my ZMA run direct....listening right now with Tungsram NOS/Platinum 6922's....just superb and with my Mullard's direct? Forgetta-bout-it. So, what does the ARC LS17 SE have to offer (and it is still breaking in)? IT takes the ZMA and makes it ~ its Bitch, in/with more SLAM. I have it set up for easy switching per Listening Session (on Floor). Don't get me wrong.....the ZMA direct has sweet articulate bass....but the dimension/definition the LS17 SE provides in the nether region when you want to go there....owns the ZMA and takes it ....is impressive.... . I've come to appreciate the cocktail that my KS1030 and KS6063 presents....with the ZMA direct and especially with the ARC LS17 SE....the 6063 is freakin' muscular and hugely dynamic ...capable of brutal transients and the most intimate delicacy (pumping from the ZMA~they are Niagara Falls and get out of the way)...copy, that is truth in advertising. Listening Room: Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Extremely Significant} Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder *************************************************************** W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S! *************************************************************** (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192) WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ***Audio Research LS17 SE Preamplifier*** ~ w/stock 6H30's .....will upgrade to: DR http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6H30-Tube-Types/Russian-6H30P-DR ZDSD also run Direct to ZMA ~ Sans ARC Pre.....best of two worlds (rotating Pre in and out) WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier ~BIASED at *60* mA~ (NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922's for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's) ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain *************************************************** Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades *************************************************** Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified) .....from 8ohm Taps Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross (Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone) XLO Pro Power Cords to ARC LS17 SE an ZMA PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3 (Transport, ZDSD an ARC LS17 SE, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output) NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA, (matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin): (Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~ 2 pair (both pair Cryogenic) (US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic) (Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair (Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/22/16 at 18:16:00 Stone, knowing what the ARC does to the ZMA, do you regret selling the CSP3? Or is the ARC just a different kind of animal? |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/22/16 at 18:36:38 CSP3 is a great Pre....and I enjoyed the 27 months I used it. However, a Pre is going to get in the way a little whether it is the ARC or CSP3. So, why I love the ultimate transparency without a Pre (ZDSD to ZMA direct)....but love what a Pre brings to the party when you want it in the chain....as mentioned above. The ARC.....can own the ZMA better in the low end....and a slightly bigger/deeper soundstage too. However, the CSP3 was a close 2nd. ....and the ARC should come out on top slightly at $5500 retail/and it does....and added bonus/I have volume control. But, when running the ZMA direct and my Mullard's...I have no problem getting off my ass and adjusting the gain a little......beautiful man. PS-I also appreciate getting away from tube rectification in the Pre and the mighty ZMA. I'm also "getting" the 6H30's now/for PRE. I don't want them in my Power Amp though....no desire for boat anchor Tube Amps/with negative feedback, with them pushing an array of output tubes. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/22/16 at 20:10:14 Stone, without the pre, how is the lower end of the ZMA? Steve mentioned that the ZMA produced SS level bottom end grunt. I've read reviews of other Decware amps where the complaint was no bottom end. I myself had to use a subwoofer with the Decware amps I've had; however, the top side was always glorious. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Lonely Raven on 07/22/16 at 22:19:08 Due to the big caps on the ZMA, it has the ability to do that solid state quality grunt with bass. I had some ESS Monitors from the 70s for a bit, that consisted of one of those famous ESS Air Motion tweeters, and two 12" drivers. Until I had those, I had no idea how much grunt the ZMA truly had in it! That said, IMHO, bass "punch" comes from your mains, and everything deep really needs to come from well placed subwoofers crossed over very low. The ZMA will give you whatever accuracy your speakers can deliver - but real, visceral bass needs big drivers to move some air. It took a 21" woofer with 2000 watts behind it before I finally accepted that truth. LOL |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/22/16 at 22:38:40 Lonely, I've got a pair of Decware MG944 and all I can say is I get some mean bottom. I've been listening to Madonna's Immaculate Collection lately and lots of 80s music had lots of bass created by synth. Low and wide and deep and I've got it in spades. Very impressive sound which I never had before without a sub. However, classical music causes my speakers to blur and go out of control. I've got to get up to the Decfest and listen to the ZMA's in person. That's the only way I'll know how far I am from nirvana. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/24/16 at 18:32:08 I really cannot make it any clearer for you Match? All in my reply #42. What the ARC LS17 SE, ZMA, NOS Tubes, my Cabling and Adagio's bring in DEFINITION and weight of quality articulate bass.... and real tonal balance of Music...... . Subs are just Subs....in my HT Rig.....and Polk SRS SDA 1.2's....very good.... . But, not in the league of my Listening Room. I will also continue to run my ZMA direct with my Mullard's. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/24/16 at 19:16:57 Make no mistake ~ the ZMA IS THE CENTER PIECE OF MY SYSTEM. The Harmonic's and realism cannot be had with my ARC Pre and a ARC Amp. I've tried. ....and the ZMA ran direct with my Mullard's and a couple of pairs of my other NOS, WILL ALWAYS be to Die for. Those not willing to modify an appropriate Pair of high end Speakers and put it with the Zen Mystery Amplifier.....will never know will they?! |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by Matchstikman on 07/24/16 at 19:53:58 stone, these days I suffer from nasty short term memory. There was a time I could remember the tiniest details from the most inconsequential things but that isn't the case any longer. My desk at work is loaded with post-it notes like you would not believe. So, if I ask the same questions over and over please excuse me. I do make a nuisance of myself. I'll try to do better. I probably won't remember that I wrote this tomorrow. Oops.... |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by lLance on 07/24/16 at 23:47:33 Matchstikman, it seems you suffer from the same affliction as me. Old age. I am the king of post-it notes. |
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Title: Re: UFO on ZMA? Post by stone_of_tone on 07/25/16 at 04:53:07 No worries Match. I did not mean to come off as harsh. Keep the inquires coming/appreciated. I read you. I'm a list maker. My short term is getting worse and my sugar, BP and cholesterol....all getting worse. The chickens have also come home to roost....cervical spinal stenosis....car accident when I was a kid/bad one. I will add, that for my age/early 50's, I'm pretty fit....still run 35 minutes, 3 times per week/moderate pace...and actually still like to do it. But, hereditary factor's have caught up with me.....just gotta fight um' I just wake up each day and be a decent human being. |
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