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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> ULTRA-LINEAR
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Message started by Steve Deckert on 05/18/15 at 18:19:06

Title: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/18/15 at 18:19:06

As some of you have noticed with the Mystery Amp, and now possibly the coming TORII JR., I am doing work with Ultra-Linear transformers despite bashing them in my original design papers for the original TORII. Since ultra-linear is a form of feedback my purist tunnel vision of 20 years ago steered me away from it.

I had a uniquely good listening room in the 90's that is responsible for me starting Decware. I spent 10 years listening in it every night from 10:00 P.M. to 3:00 A.M. and used that time to form my opinions on how things should sound. (single, self employed and no neighbors made such a thing possible)

It was actually four rooms that were interconnected together with large openings. Below is an illustration of the room.



I had a visual line of sight that extended 30 feet behind the speakers. I became addicted to sound stage depth.

I found typical use of negative feedback destroys sound stage depth, preventing it from reaching the pink zone above. The difference between Ultra-linear and non-ultra-linear was making small differences in the pink zone. This was 20 years ago and my amps have evolved considerably since then and I have also realized that in 20 years, 10,000 customers, 54 countries, only 6 people have a room that even comes close to the above illustration, therefor the pink zone will never be experienced by 99.9% of our customers. This is why after the great success of my Zen Mystery Amp, I have been revisiting ultra-linear designs.  

Steve

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/18/15 at 19:34:35


Steve, am I misreading this, or are you saying the ZMA is already an Ultralinear design?

If that's the case, is there no plan for UFO upgrades for the ZMA?

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Lon on 05/18/15 at 20:16:39

Or maybe he's saying that since he's reached this pinnacle with the ZMA he's now turning towards exploration of ultralinear amplification.

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/18/15 at 22:32:42

The ZMA is an ultra-linear design, yes. The only way it will ever see a redesign of it's output transformers is if some other Decware amp proves to sound better as a result of UFO transformers.

Steve

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Lon on 05/18/15 at 22:54:50

Sounds like a challenge. C'mon Torii IV! :D

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by beowulf on 05/19/15 at 00:02:23

Wow, I did not know that the ZMA was UL ... What about the Torii Mono's then?

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Fireblade on 05/19/15 at 00:10:06

Would this explain the slight (but tangible) transparency advantage of the Super Zen vs the ZMA? Or is it only soundstage depth related?

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by mark58 on 05/19/15 at 00:46:28

Yes, the Torii Monos have Ultra Linear output stages...as per the features on the product page.  Mark.

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by beowulf on 05/19/15 at 00:56:02

Thanks Mark I never noticed that ... perhaps because they are out of my price range I just never went too deep within the specs! ;D

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Dave1210 on 05/19/15 at 01:54:49

My experience is that it depends on the amp/speaker combination (among other things).  I have heard the ZMA sound more detailed and musical than the CKC and vice versa.  It’s easier for humans to group things, Class A vs. Class D, SET vs. Push/Pull.  Trust your ears…these are very complex systems…and generalizations often don’t apply.  

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by will on 05/19/15 at 02:02:32

Agreed

;)

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Fireblade on 05/19/15 at 12:51:42

Right, I see. This brings me some hope to lift the Mini Torii up to par in microdetail-transparency through all the mods in sight. I also need to explore some more tube-rolling in the high end of the tube market segment. Thanks!

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/20/15 at 02:56:07


Quote:
My experience is that it depends on the amp/speaker combination (among other things).  I have heard the ZMA sound more detailed and musical than the CKC and vice versa.  It’s easier for humans to group things, Class A vs. Class D, SET vs. Push/Pull.  Trust your ears…these are very complex systems…and generalizations often don’t apply.


Agreed.

When I brought my ZMA to ProgRobs room, he was grinning like an idiot over the grunt of the ZMA, and Palomino and I were draw-dropped over the layering and detail of his CKCS.

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by ProggRob on 05/20/15 at 03:11:17

Like I've said, if I had to choose between the Zen and the ZMA, I wouldn't.  I'd buy both!

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Dave1210 on 05/20/15 at 17:24:57

I like how you think ProggRob!

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/20/15 at 18:16:46

Oh yeah, my SE84CS runs my Modified Adagio's nicely. I still love the little bugger. Do own both, life is short.

I hope Steve makes the 6C33C Mono-blocks. Right now, I'm eyeing these Quicksilver's. However, I want Steve's design and SE Triode. 14 to 22 watts per channel is plenty.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-quicksilver-triodes-6c33c-mono-amps-2015-04-22-amplifiers-94523-pleasant-hill-ca


Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by Palomino on 05/20/15 at 22:28:57

Those look pretty nice!

Title: Re: ULTRA-LINEAR
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/21/15 at 16:13:48

Yeah Pal, they are very tempting. However, when you own a ZMA....I don't need those.

However, I want single tube 6C33C output from the mind of Steve.
The 6C33C, can be a bit fickle. But, very worth taming it.

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