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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
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Message started by ProggRob on 04/20/15 at 17:25:11

Title: Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
Post by ProggRob on 04/20/15 at 17:25:11

Hello Everyone,

On Saturday night I had the pleasure of listening to an analog setup at a friend's house: VPI Scout Jr fed a Graham Slee phono stage, Rachael and Tekton M-Lore speakers.

I put on my reviewer's hat and we listened to a few select album sides to get a baseline. Next, we swapped out his Blue Jeans speaker cable with my Triode Wire Labs American SC. Before I get into specifics, I want to copy in an excerpt from one of my favorite audio websites (www.high-endaudio.com) on the hierarchy of audio improvements:

Quote:

Level 1- The improvement can be subtly, though still consistently, heard when switching to the superior component (A/B), but it is not heard when switching back (B/A).

Level 2- The improvement can be heard when both switching components, and when switching back, but it is no longer specifically heard after a very short period of time; sometimes seconds, but almost always less than one minute.

Level 3- The improvement can be heard at length, but mainly only when making an effort to listen specifically for it, so it is not "obvious". This improvement is usually not "significant"; meaning there's a good chance that an audiophile may be able to remove this improvement from their system and still not suffer from its absence.

Level 4- The improvement can be heard all the time, and without any effort, by an audiophile. However, it would not be unusual for it to be not heard by those listeners with no interest in sound quality. This improvement is still usually "significant"; meaning an audiophile will almost always suffer from its absence.

Level 5- The improvement can be heard at all times by anyone with healthy hearing, including listeners with no interest in sound quality. The improvement is now always "significant"; meaning an audiophile can no longer enjoy their system without this specific improvement.

Level 6- The improvement is "transformational"; meaning not only would it be completely unthinkable to live without it, but the improvement actually alters an audiophile's thinking and perspective on both their particular system and "Audio" in general.

This change in speaker cables was, in two people's opinion, at least a level 4 and most likely a Level 4.5. We think that a non-audiophile would probably hear the improvement, but are not 100% certain unless pointed out the differences. As I type this, my friend is actively researching speaker cables and I wouldn't be surprised if he bought the TWL today.

We we heard surprised us both. We expected a bigger, bolder sound, more detail, more of everything. That was achieved but it wasn't the most significant change. Most significant was what we didn't hear, which was a layer of "fuzz" or background noise that was present between notes and, less noticeably, underneath the music. When we heard the first notes through them we thought we'd accidentally turned down the volume. It cleaned up everything so that details he'd never heard before just came out of nothing. I am a fan of quality cabling, but I'd never heard an improvement this significant from a cable, ever.

Later in the night, we switched out the el cheapo power cord on his Rachael with a TWL Seven Plus. To me, this was a Level 4 as well. Clearly audible. Dynamics and punch went up significantly to the point I couldn't stop smiling and tapping my feet. If it were my system, I would suffer from its absence. Truly amazing stuff.

The main topic I wanted to share though was how I was ruined by this evening of listening. We spent a good portion of the night listening to In Flames "Jester Race", quite possibly the finest example of melodic death metal out there. Despite the issues his system is having, the two most significant being a lack of "outer detail" and definition between notes (something my all-digital system truly excels at) and an ever-present static issue with his TT, the emotional engagement, tone and timbre of guitar and instruments was striking. I listened the next morning on my system to this same album, and to put it plainly I was bored. His setup just crushes mine in this department, at least on this recording. Humble pie, please? This probably won't surprise any vinyl fans out there. But for me, this was truly a paradigm shift.

This has me rethinking my next steps. If I had that same level of engagement I would sacrifice some of the things I've been pursuing like transparency, dynamics and detail. The only way I will get closer to higher levels of engagement with a digital system, I believe, is with the Schiit Yggdrasil. I won't get into the details of this particular DAC but I think it will get me closer to true analog than any other DAC anywhere near the price, up to $10,000 or more. (please don't take this opportunity to introduce me to or cover the benefits of alternative DACs, I'm not interested) Based on what I've read about this device I will expect a Level 6 improvement. No joking around here. If this is true, I would happily sell my beloved HFC CT-1E cable (Level 2.5 improvement vs. Grover Huffman ZX+) to fund it. I was heavily leaning towards a new DAC before our last two CDApS meetings and recently had moved away from the idea. Here it is again now, front and center.

Rob

Title: Re: Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
Post by Lon on 04/20/15 at 19:25:33

Interesting Rob.

Personally, I think there's something intrinsic about vinyl playback that even the finest DACs can't duplicate because it's something inherent in the mechanics of vinyl playback and how the brain perceives it. I have an excellent DAC and transport but listening to vinyl via my Rega and ZP3 is a different feeling. But. . . I do have a sense of engagement with both even though there is a difference. I enjoy them both, but due to the nature of my collection, listen to digital more. But if I had had the ZP3 (and a time machine) twenty years ago I'd probably have a lot more LPs and a lot fewer cds!

I hope that you can get that sense of engagement easily. . . !

Title: Re: Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
Post by Lonely Raven on 04/21/15 at 12:55:13

Sounds like a very educational listening session, Rob!

I'm glad it isn't going to make you run out and drop $20k in a vinyl source setup! LOL

That Yyggklasldknvoiuaohg DAC sounds very interesting! We are for sure going to have to have a DAC off after you get it well and broken in!

Title: Re: Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
Post by Lonely Raven on 04/21/15 at 17:04:14

Looks like the order page just went lie this morning, Rob.

Do you have your order in yet? :)

http://schiit.com/products/yggdrasil

Title: Re: Digital Guy Ruined by Vinyl (and power of cabling)
Post by ProggRob on 04/21/15 at 17:10:32

I saw that. I'm sweating over here just trying not to click "Add to Cart"

I have the UberBUSS, CT-1E digital cable and Herbie's Spikes listed in the classified section. After all these sell, I'll list the Gungnir and buy. I have no idea how long this will take... but it will be too long regardless.

Rob