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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1429286400 Message started by ProggRob on 04/17/15 at 17:00:00 |
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Title: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/17/15 at 17:00:00 Hello All- I will be visiting a friend's house on Saturday night who is the proud owner of a Rachael. I bought him some 6N2P input tubes to try in his amp, but wanted to take a quick poll of the user forum to see who has tried this and what the impressions were vs. stock 6N1P? He has a VPI Scout Jr. turntable with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, Grover Huffman EX phono and ICs, Tekton M-Lore speakers and BJC speaker cables. I will also be bringing over my PI Audio UberBUSS for him (he has no conditioning to speak of), and my Triode Wire Labs American SC to swap out vs. the BJC cables. Rob |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Acetone on 04/17/15 at 18:43:26 hey Prob, I have been following the other forum ...member gatherings with much interest and envy. I have read where others have used the 6n2p in place of the 6n1p in the SuperZen CKC amps with success. So, might not be a bad experiment with the Rachel. Enjoy the listen / tweaks / cable / room treatment experiments. Sounds like it's been an eye opener for all involved. Nice!! |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/17/15 at 22:44:39 Thanks Acetone, I didn't know the 6N2P could work in the Zen. I might have to pick one up and try it. I haven't tube rolled much in my amp. Tubes are expensive and a gamble, but by most accounts can really pay off. I'll get there. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Acetone on 04/17/15 at 22:58:21 7DJ8 tubes & 6n23p work well in the input slot as well in place of 6n1p. They can be had relatively cheap...$5 to $25 depending on maker. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Luis on 04/17/15 at 23:27:25 I am trying now a couple of 6n23p Voskhod (Kaluga factory) rocket logo in my SE34I.2 and I like them a lot! Luis |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by will on 04/18/15 at 06:29:45 Rob, I used 6N2P in my SE34I.2 and was reminded when I auditioned a Rachael, the 6N2P takes a while to show its stuff. It will push the amp a little harder and louder if I recall, but it also clips at a lower level with the volume pot. For me, first impressions were not great sound-wise> I think I figured out they could be good when I broke a 6N1P and all I had was the 62NP pair. With burnin, I ended up liking it quite a bit, but I don't recall its specific characteristics beyond bigger and bolder. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Syd on 04/18/15 at 12:26:11 I haven`t tried many tubes in the Rachaels, they came without stock tubes and I had BB 6dj8`s and Philips 6dj8`s for them which I used for over a year so I took that as stock and voiced the other amps signal tubes around it. Having tried and been impressed by the 6n1p-E x3 mica, gold grids in the CSP2+ I bought another 4 for the Rachaels. Their price is good compared to other NOS. They are disc getters as well, the Russian tubes I have are all discs so there is the romantic vibe of discs playing a part. Guess it`s all about building up a small stock slowly. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by hdrider on 04/18/15 at 15:58:29 I echo Will's experience with my Rachael. I am using the 6N1P's now that I got from Steve with my amp. I tried the 6N2P's again last weekend while I was breaking in my new speakers and had the same impression that I originally had, they seem to overload sooner and sound harsh. So far in my system the 6N1P seems to be the winner. BUT, now that I have speakers that allow me to hear every change, some tube rolling is going to be happening soon. Let us know the results of your trials. Happy listening, Chris. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/19/15 at 01:07:44 Hey thanks for the feedback everyone. I suppose we shouldn't expect too much tonight out of the 6N2P's since they have very few hours on them. Bigger and bolder makes sense with the additional gain. On my Zen, I put in a Matsushita National 7DJ8 and really like what I hear. They seem to take me much further into the mix a bring out fine detail across the spectrum. I listened to some Opeth songs that I've listened to hundreds of times and heard them like never before. Bass may have taken a step back vs. 6N1P, but otherwise very very good. On some tracks, vocals come forward in a pleasing way but on the flip side can seem almost too much with others. I'll listen to it several more days to decide. Keep the suggestions coming! |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Rivieraranch on 04/19/15 at 01:10:20 The 6N2P-EV can sound harsh if you crank it up too much. I tried one in my Super Zen and it gave a livelier more forward presentation overall. I grew tired of it, pulled it out and replaced it with the 6N1P-EV, which was instantly warmer and more neutral. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/19/15 at 01:13:39 I am definitely seeing a trend here. Perhaps in the right system they could work! |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by will on 04/19/15 at 05:46:32 Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like a good description of the 7Dj8. I have had the same feeling depending on tuning. If the detail and openness is close to the edge, a 7DJ8/PCC88 can be too much at times. But, though they all seem to do something like what you describe, they vary in how they do this...some more bass, some more open, bigger, wetter, drier, extended...the usual variations with inputs depending on brand and vintage. Remember tubes too take time to come out. Especially some Russian inputs can be pretty rigid for quite a while before opening up. I find even the faster burnin input tubes can take 50 or more hours to open up. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by SE84CKCS on 04/20/15 at 01:16:21 Interesting. When exchanging emails w/ Steve, I asked him about swapping in a 6N2P, and he said it wouldn't work. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/20/15 at 17:31:26 SE84CKCS: yeah it doesn't mention it on the website either for the Zen, but I guess there's some first hand experience with others. PS - I never got around to hearing these on Saturday. We got wrapped up in cable swapping, something I just started a new thread on. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Palomino on 04/20/15 at 22:58:51 Rob, My experience was similar to what Will notes in Response #6. I didn't like them and gave them to another Rachael owner at Zenfest. I do have some 7DJ8s still if you/your friend are interested. CDApS needs some vinyl influence. Recruit and you'll win a toaster. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/21/15 at 01:12:46 Palomino, I'd like to try your 7DJ8 tubes that you've got on hand. I'm really digging this Matsushita National but would like to explore more. My buddy can try the matched pairs that I don't keep ;D Rob PS make it a finished pair of your diffusers and I'll work tirelessly to recruit! |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by riknbkr330 on 04/21/15 at 02:00:19 Hi Guys...new here...first post and all. I'd like to contribute to this post as I'm running 6N2Ps with my Rachael. They really help out with the input sensitivity of my phono preamp, Musical Surroundings Phonomena II and the Dynavector 20X2L cart combo. The sound is pretty good, but was harsh at first. They're still burning in as I got the amp probably a little over a month ago. The 6N1Ps do sound nice as well, and I picked up a set of NOS Philips 6922 to roll with . They do sound really nice with my digital sources. Overall I'm really happy with the amp and sound I'm getting. This the most musical setup I've ever had and it really bums me out I didn't buy into this many, many years ago. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Lonely Raven on 04/21/15 at 03:40:05 Welcome! And awesome! I love the sound of the Rachel. Palomino has two of them, and they catch me off guard with how good they sound. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by ProggRob on 04/21/15 at 17:22:50 Welcome riknbkr! When you say "helped with input sensitivity of phono preamp", are you actually referring to the lack of voltage output from your phono? Trying to determine how the 6N2P helps with input sensitivity of the phono but I may be misunderstanding. I ask because my friend has about 1.5v out from his phono stage but the Rachael needs about 2.5 for full output and you may have a similar situation. Rob |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by Palomino on 04/21/15 at 17:56:12 I think they output more than the 6N1P's. They guy I gave my 6n2ps to used them for the same reason. He ran without a pre, but like the little goose from the 2p's with his TT based system despite the earlier clipping. He later bought a pre. |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by riknbkr330 on 04/30/15 at 14:41:14 Yes, the 6N2P increases the gain and input sensitivity of the amp helping the phono stage gain. The better solution is getting an SUT between the cart and phono stage, and that's probably my next purchase. Overall though everything sounds great and I'm very satisfied. Always anticipate listening sessions, so that's a good thing :) |
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Title: Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Post by bvictor on 04/30/15 at 22:54:03 I run 6N2P-EVs in both my Rachel and my SE34I.2+. LOVE them. Have never returned to the 6N1Ps Beautiful, clear gutsy tubes. |
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