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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> more reading about DSD and PCM
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Message started by SteveC on 05/05/14 at 08:07:15

Title: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by SteveC on 05/05/14 at 08:07:15

So, I'm obviously a Decware fan. And I've said before I'm a Schiit fan.
There's a thread I follow about how the Schiit company was formed (very good read on its own), and there are a few interesting discussions about DSD and PCM I want to share.

Pro DSD.
They say digital music goes from:
Analog >> [ADC]DSD >> PCM >> format (CD, File, etc.) >> [DAC]PCM >> DSD >> Analog.
They say DSD music is purer because it leaves out the middle man (to and from PCM) conversions that always add some level of degradation.
Post 896
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/885#post_10484084

Anti DSD.
They say all music is (that is mastered in the digital domain) must be converted to PCM to do so, so there's a "purity" myth around DSD files.
Says PCM and DSD sound different, not better. Unpopular opinion shared by Arye, Benchmark, and Linn.
Post 902
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/900#post_10484409

Wisdom regardless of Format.
Some wise folks say it doesn't matter the format, bit depth, sample rate, conversion processes, etc. It's a good artist, good recording, good engineering/mastering that make by far the most impact on sound quality.

And finally, since digital filters in the dac are what makes or breaks them, the future Yggdrasil will have some super/duper/wiz bang filter, that I'm waiting for.
Post 903
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/900#post_10484437

(the whole thread is good)

So there's more DSD/PCM considerations and insight into what's going on inside dacs.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/05/14 at 18:02:22

I still don't have my head wrapped around PCM vs DSD differences, and I kind of feel the "it depends on the musicians/recording" seems like a copout.

I've heard from some studio engineers that due to bit limitations, recording/editing needs to be done in PMC format, then can be dumped to DSD - which makes some sense to me.

But then there are those really pushing the limits of DSD like Cookie from Blue Coast Records - I believe she records in analog, then dumps directly to DSD without multi-tracking. She may also dump directly to DSD - I've been meaning to ask her if her recordings go to tape first.

Lastly, Paul has some reasons why he says DSD is better (at the end of the chain at least). He makes it sound as simple and enjoyable as tape.

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/dsd-1/pure-dsd/

I'd really like to reach out to more people behind the recording boards and ask what they think. I wonder if Steve Wilson answers E-mails. :)

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lon on 05/05/14 at 18:17:24

Steve Wilson is a member of the Steve Hoffman music boards, an infrequent poster. He could be Private Messaged from there, hard to know if he responds.

My take is that there is something different about SACDs which are DSD based, smoother and more analog-like than most PCM converted material. The PWD Mk II is the first DAC I've had that really seemed to approach this signature from PCM. . . .

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/05/14 at 22:50:39

Thanks for the lead, Lon. I can't seem to find him there. I wonder if he/they scrubbed his account. IMHO, I bet he'd have thoughts on this.

Also, what you said about the smoothness, I've heard from many others before, even those that didn't realize SACD/DSD are the same thing. Which also makes me think you'll like your DirectStream upgrade.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by beowulf on 05/06/14 at 00:00:59

There's a simplicity/elegance in the way DSD is recorded which seems to me that it is "less stepped on" in comaprison to PCM. Also there is a simplicity to the way that PS Audio Direct Stream into their DAC as well as others who seem to be on this bandwagon such as Emm Labs/Meitner, Chord and Playback Designs to name a few.

Some of these guys are using FPGA's in their DAC designs rather than off the shelf chips and I see this as way to the future over implementing standard chips such as Burr Brown and Sabre.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/06/14 at 00:23:25

Yes! I noticed that at Axpona - being able to just simply rewrite the DAC software and blamo! New DAC upgrade! That's pretty cool.

Though, I thought Ted Smith said he had to have the DS DAC chips custom made because nothing out was to the specs he required to take it to another level. Many have said, all DAC chips pretty much sound the same, it's what you build around it that makes the difference. Whereas the DS, I think they've taken it a big step forward with building it all custom rather than off the shelf or FPGA.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lon on 05/06/14 at 01:24:07

Lonely Raven wrote on 05/05/14 at 22:50:39:

He's there Eric. They make it hard to find members, it used to be easier, but I found it by searching for "audio" by him as a poster. Here's his profile page:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/members/steven-wilson.29721/

It shows he hasn't posted since '12 but I think he has and has removed posts.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lonely Raven on 05/06/14 at 01:40:17

Ahh, I don't have access enough. It's not a forum I frequent.

Title: Re: more reading about DSD and PCM
Post by Lon on 05/06/14 at 01:43:49

I don't have any special access, I'm just a registered member. Registered members can PM other registered members.