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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Image is on the floor...
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Message started by Lonely Raven on 08/15/13 at 14:57:56

Title: Image is on the floor...
Post by Lonely Raven on 08/15/13 at 14:57:56

So, I'm back to the Decware family after a couple visits with Steve recently. He tuned up and upgraded my little Zen amp (serial number 79 I believe!), and I managed to scrape up some money and bought a pair of MG944 off Steve with the appropriate interconnects to put it all together.

To treat myself (I'm on a real tight budget), I splurged and got an Oppo BDP-105 Universal player (12 months same as cash!) and got it all hooked up. I'm *so* close to that 3D imaging I heard in Steve's old listening room some 14 years ago!

But my imaging is on the floor...like, I listen to Heart Dreamboat Annie (both CD and HDTracks), and the mandolins are about 1' off the floor, and Ann Wilsons voice is only about 2.5' off the floor.

So, where should I be looking to get the almost 3D image off the floor? I'm a big fan of room treatment, and I already have some RPG Omnifusers I pulled from a now defunct TV commercial mixing studio, and I'm planning on building many more 1D QRD diffusors...but I'm trying to figure out what/where I need to look to move this almost 3D image up higher. Is that front diffusion? Ceiling? Side?

Thoughts?

Also, on the same thread, I'm pretty much sitting on the floor with these MG944 speakers. The sweet spot seems to be below any seat in the house, so I had to drag out my REI camp chairs that are only 6" off the ground. I'm wondering if I need to build small platforms for my speakers to get them up a little bit more into the middle of the room so I can sit on a nice comfy recliner. ::)

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by will on 08/15/13 at 15:51:01

LR,

Sounds odd! In my rooms, the 944s image great sitting in a normal couch or chair, and neither has diffusers, but both have irregular segues into other spaces, irregular window locations and sizes, and both have rough wood ceilings with round log beams. The heights of the players seem right. Just to let you know.... I guess you have played with your diffuser locations and heights, and with your speaker width and toe. In my main room the speakers are close (maybe 6 feet driver center to driver center) and the toe is best just a little out from straight on!

Will

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Lonely Raven on 08/15/13 at 16:09:26

A crappy camera phone photo, but yes, I've messed with my setup a bit (though I could do more). It's probably the oddly shaped room and stuff all over. I think I need some diffusion on the ceiling as well.

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Chris K on 08/16/13 at 04:26:08

Maybe try no diffusers on the floor just at speaker height or higher.
Maybe the good diffusion near the floor is pulling a magic trick and drawing the stereo image towards the floor. Just a thought. :)

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by will on 08/16/13 at 05:47:18

Have you tried it with no diffusers and slowly add them? It is hard to see, but I am guessing the side diffusers cover the first reflection areas and are centered at tweeter height or so... Also, I think the 944s benefit from being out in the room as much as you can...if the mid bass is heavy, it can overwhelm the image-making upper mids on up. Have you had a chance to look at the several white papers Steve has written looking at room treatment and holographic imaging?

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Lonely Raven on 08/16/13 at 13:02:16

Thanks for the suggestions. I do have the speakers about 5' from the wall, but I can pull them out a bit more. I'm still playing with location and toe-in.

As for diffusers, they make a big difference. If I take them out of the room, the image gets smeared and pulled back to the speakers. I'll try adding them in stages and/or moving them around and see what happens. It could just be that I really need 1D diffusers and these 2D should go up to the ceiling.

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Rivieraranch on 08/16/13 at 13:53:25

What about the carpet? Is that adding to the sonic confusion?

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Lonely Raven on 08/16/13 at 14:02:25

I thought of that as well, but Steve says I should always start with 1/2" commercial padding and good thick carpeting, as it works like a giant absorber...which I agree with.

Chances are it's just the non-symmetrical shape of the room combined with too much stuff, and not enough diffusers. ;D

I wish I had a dedicated room, but it's what I have to work with right now. Besides, Steve is the one that talked me into combining my two channel setup with my home theater. I blame him. ::)

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by will on 08/16/13 at 14:56:12

I agree. Its Steve! ;)

It does seem that the reflection problems that screw up the image height show up at a normal seat ear level, soooo.... since the image is good in a low chair, I am getting ChrisK's thought....it makes me want to move all or part of diffusor setup upward...

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by deucekazoo on 08/16/13 at 17:13:55

For the fun of it, put something under the front of the speaker to angle them up slightly, like a phone book. Just to see what happens.

Title: Re: Image is on the floor...
Post by Lonely Raven on 08/16/13 at 18:13:39

I thought of that as well! I was thinking about putting some brass spikes under the front to angle them slightly and allow me to sit in my comfy recliner. But for testing a book (what's a phone book? LOL) under each should do as well.

I've only had the speakers for a week, so I'm still working out the best sounding layout.