Post by EdGuY on 01/28/13 at 20:50:26
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Ultimate tuberolling part1 https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1359403317 Message started by EdGuY on 01/28/13 at 20:01:54 |
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Title: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by EdGuY on 01/28/13 at 20:01:54 I think I found best combination of tubes for my setup Tube testing is over. Ou guys what a journey I had! Equipment I used in tests: TORII MK3(VCap), CSP2+, YARBO power.cords, BADA LB-5600, AUDIOCUBICS R-CUBE, DENON DP-A100, PRO-JECT: TUBE BOX II, DOCK BOX VI, CD BOX, ADVENT A4 rebuilt(VCap), Sunfire HRS-8, ULTRASONE EDITION 10 LUXURY headphones, Nuforce Icon uDAC2 Signature Gold Edition Tested tubes: As EL34: Fuller EL34G, Psvane KT-88-T, Psvane 6CA7-T, JJ EL34L as middle voltage regulators: Russian CG16P (OC2) as second voltage regulators: Sylvania OA3 NOS, Sylvania OB3 NOS, OC3 Sylvania NOS, Sylvania OD3 NOS, RCA OA3 NOS, OB3 RCA NOS, RCA OC3 NOS, RCA OD3 NOS as input tubes: Mullard E188CC NOS, Valvo ECC85 NOS, Sylvania 7308 NOS (gold pins), Philips PCC88 NOS as rectifier: Svetlana 5U3C NOS, Ruby 5UGC, Psvane 274B EL34: Psvane KT-88 tube was the biggest disappointment used as EL34. With an overload of bass and treble. In these there was nothing good KT-88 with Torii. JJ EL34 was not bad, but the bass was too "dusty". Fuller was close to the JJ EL34 but 80$/ for a price you expect something really special. You will never believe me, but the biggest surprise in my tests was the Pavane 6CA7-T (90$/). I found a new musical instruments in music I loved/listened for a long time. The sound clarity, and rich detail amazed me, so alive sound! Why is no one talking about these tubes? Bring you to totally new sound level! I can only say that I am glad that I found this tube. These will remain in my system for a long time. If you can afford it you will not regret, would be your last EL34. Middle voltage regulators: I tested only with Russian tubes, because my Tung-Sol 6X6WA NOS tubes (since 1962) are still in DHL. I will come back to these later. Second voltage regulators: As I expected it was not difficult to find the winner. The best choice was the RCA OA3 (glowing blue). Compared to the OB3, OC3 and OD3 with OA3 you get much more and better of everything. Bright, rich and balanced sound. Not far from the OA3 was OB3 tube (glowing blue). The difference between Sylvania and RCA tubes are not big, but I still like the RCA more, because these were clearer sound especially vocals. Input Tubes: What can I say, simply all listed tubes was good. I still decided to choose 7308 Sylvania as the winner because of tighter bass and gain in heights. Rectifiers: the overwhelming winner was Svetlana 5U3C, Ruby was again the "dusty". And please no one use the 274B tube rectifier in Torii, a big waste of money! Same result as using the KT-88 as EL34 is a Torii amp. Conclusion: First of all I am amazed at how easily I confirmed highlights and the differences between the different tubes. May notice the difference right away without a longer listening. A big thanks to Decware! Most discovery in this test was Psvane 6CA7-T. I played a few familiar songs, and I immediately noticed the difference, as the songs were "re-mastered", I found the constant new instruments. Without Psvane 6CA7-T I can not live anymore! Finally I found a good combination of tubes to my amplifier and the system. I am relieved and happy now :) I say again, this amplifier with my A4 Advent speakers shows the difference between the tubes immediately. In my previous tube amp Yaqin MS-20L the tuberolling were mostly a waste of money. No matter what you use the end result was the same: shit. So here are the winners: as EL34: Psvane 6CA7can't imagine better tube than this... Voltage regulator: Sylvania OA3 NOS (I may use OB3 sometimes because of beautiful blue colour glowing inside) input tube: Sylvania 7308 NOS (gold pins) rectifier: Svetlana 5U3C NOS ...and sorry for spelling errors :D |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by EdGuY on 01/28/13 at 20:50:26
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by EdGuY on 01/28/13 at 21:24:35 More comments about Psvane 6CA7-T tubes: http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/category/review/6ca7-z-el34/ |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by will on 01/31/13 at 17:52:04 Hey edguy, Thanks for the explanation of your tube play. Sounds like you really got a good synergy going with this particular set. Don't know about you, but I have found sets where any of the tubes in the other sockets, say the power tubes, sound great, and change to say....the last input I had used, and have it not sound so good. So I might not rule out the other tubes you have unless you plan not to roll over/in time. Often, if I am using nice tubes, I can just change the power volt regs or rectifiers (or both) to tune a set of current power tubes into synergy. I have some NOS RFT/Siemens (mine say Brimar) and I rarely use them. In the case of these tubes I found them a bit "syrupy" thickening and slowing the sounds a bit and with a accented (not syrpuy) top end making the balance a bit odd. But with some rolling, I did find some really nice combos with them! For a long time I have used only cryo'd JJ6AC7 and really like them, but I thought they had a notable signature, and at first was not sure about them until I got a good set going with them. Found them fast once burned in, but a bit dense and thick with the other tubes I had in. Now, all burned in and having gotten used to their sound, I use them all the time and roll other tubes. That said, I appreciate your input on the Pvanes. I will check them out. Best to you. Will Also, I have quite a number of different power regs...and have only seen an orange glow on OA3s with blue on a bunch of OB3s. I do have some Raythion short, straight-side OA3s (orange) labeled OB3. I assume this is a OA3 anyway due to the orange. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by EdGuY on 01/31/13 at 21:23:08 Will, I never seen JJ 6AC7 tubes before, I think I try them some day, but right now I'm really really happy with Psvane tubes. Can't imagine anything can replace them. It is crazy, never expected so much from Chinese tube.. My mistake, of course 0A3s glow is orange. For some reason I can't modify my review anymore to correct that, too many coffee... ;) I understand that everything is about synergy, and every tube has own character. If you want to highlight bass you searching for tube with that kind character. But some tubes sometime may vanish sounds/instruments. With my current setup I have great bass, lot of details and pure clear sound. To speac francly, best part of this setup is how my amp manage wind instruments and bells. Even I invested over 2000$ in this crazy rolling, still like i said, it was great journey...and I continue searching replacements for 0C2 and 5U tubes. I have ordered already RCA 5Y4 GT and Tung-Sol 6X4WA tubes. We will see what happens then. I hope to get them tomorrow and I will write some words about result. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Lon on 01/31/13 at 21:52:15 I agree with all that will speaks of the 6CA7--great tube that I have been using through a few sets now. 
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by will on 01/31/13 at 22:56:51 Looking forward to your comparisons edguy. Have fun. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Fireblade on 02/01/13 at 00:51:49 Will, It's funny how one experience/observation relates to another, even in a different topology context. I have the same basic impression out of my NOS RFT EZ-81 rectifiers. At first, I liked them a lot, especially compared to the original, same spec JJ brand. Somehow, I gradually started noticing too much body/thickness intrusion, and definitely a perceptible edginess in the high frequencies. Although I still like them with more laid back (smooth) drivers (i.e., 5963), I now much prefer the RFT EZ-80, as I find it quite more neutral and natural in the highs. It blends with the tube set and does not stand out. It also seems to have synergy with 12AT7 drivers. There may be less of a 3-D projection in the sound they produce, but their synergy with the tube set more than compensates. This, of course, in my Mini Torii, which nevertheless seems to reflect a similar profile from these rectifiers. Interesting! |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Rivieraranch on 02/01/13 at 00:59:38 Fire's comment on rectifiers is not surprising. The EZ80 6V4 is a little less strong than the EZ81 6CA4 tube that the MINI TORII is now spec'd. for. Recall that the MINI TORII was originally fitted with the EZ90 6X4, which could not handle a runaway power tube. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Fireblade on 02/01/13 at 01:54:02 Reading the M-T Version II literature, it seems the stock spec rectifier is again the EZ-90 (6x4). Funny! But, what is a 'runaway' power tube? |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Rivieraranch on 02/01/13 at 02:03:03 A runaway power tube is one that draws too many millaamps for the rectifier to handle. The mention of the EZ90 is a mistake. Try as they might sometimes the text is not perfect on these product pages. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Fireblade on 02/01/13 at 02:09:57 Got it, thanks! Would this mean the 6V6, in general, is a runaway tube? Is it because it is a Beam Tetrode? Would this somehow explain the 'pep' (dynamics) involved in the Mini? |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Rivieraranch on 02/01/13 at 02:22:28 No a 6Y6 or 6L6 can stress the 6X4 rectifier in the original version. The work around was a 7-9 pin adapter and the use of either an EZ80 or EZ81 rectifier. I had a runaway 6Y6 that took out one of the 6X4 rectifiers. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Fireblade on 02/01/13 at 02:31:42 Got it! Thanks RR. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Lord Soth on 02/01/13 at 07:36:48 Thanks for posting your impressions. This is a great thread! BTW, there is a new PSVane Treasure Version 2 tube out now. They have some sort of patented GREY coating on the glass now. More details at the Grant Fidelity website. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Pale Rider on 02/02/13 at 11:00:30 Lord Soth observed: Quote:
I have a quad of these on the way. I am looking forward to comparing them to the Treasures that are in my Toriis now, that I also purchased from Grant Fidelity a couple of years ago. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by EdGuY on 02/06/13 at 21:06:13 Pale Rider, did you already get new tubes? Waiting your comments ;) |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by hifitubes on 03/09/13 at 05:15:41 One of my Treasure EL34 seems to be dying slowly; I'm ordering the PSVANE Type II EL34 for my Rachel. Thanks for the heads up on these. |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by opnlybafld on 03/09/13 at 21:58:11 I guess I tube roll a little bit different than most, I switch amps. :-? Amps Decware Torii ~ KT77 p/p (12 watts) Inspire Sweet 807 ~ 807 s/e (9 watts) McAlister Audio SE32 ~ 6JF6 parallel se (15 watts) Music Reference RM-10 ~ EL84 p/p (35 watts) Phillo PA25 ~ 6L6 p/p (25 watts) Integrateds Grommes PHI-26 ~ EL84 s/e Triode/Pentode (2 or 6 watts) Grommes Little Jewel 6 ~ 6V6 p/p (8 watts) I think I need to sell one or two. :-/ Lin |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by DPC on 03/09/13 at 22:49:50 And I was starting to feel guilty! ;) |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by hifitubes on 11/01/15 at 06:33:17 Anyone using PSVANE tubes still? I still have one single, after two failed EL34 Type II, and would like to buy a single from somewhere. I am currently using the SED Winged C, and f'ing unreal sound, but want to compare the following soon: Tesla NOS brown base Siemens RFT PSVANE Type II RCA NOS 6CA7 Matsushita EL34 NOS |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by Luis on 11/07/15 at 11:12:27 That would be nice to know, I wonder if they are worth to try, I am currently using a pair of Gold Lion KT77 in my SE34I.2. Luis |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by hifitubes on 11/08/15 at 10:37:48 Anyone compare tubes to the EL34B? http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/images/File/TAD-Datasheet_EL34B-STR%20Version1.3-08.07.11.pdf Here is winged C data sheet - gm is indeed higher on the EL34B: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/images/File/TAD-Datenblatt_EL34-SVT_190912%20Version%201_0.pdf |
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Title: Re: Ultimate tuberolling part1 Post by hifitubes on 11/10/15 at 06:08:10 PSVANE 6CA7 is a pentode after all. http://en.psvane.com/info-9-54.html |
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