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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Tests of audiophile myths - what you think.
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Message started by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 14:06:44

Title: Tests of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 14:06:44

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Mark on 12/01/12 at 16:50:50

I think the general notion is that anyone can do these tests with a reasonably good ear; however, I think the more trained ear you have, the better chance you have of discerning differences in cables, equipment, etc.

I think the best test is to start out with as near a perfect system as you can, then selectively remove various components, insert others, and then listen for the difference... The time-lapse between the two should be as little as possible... (m.)

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 17:40:53

There are a lot of things that affect each other. For example Torii amplifiers use a rectifiers to filter AC electrical power. Rectifiers cleans income power so well that the separate audiophile HI-FI cable is not required or that the gain is very marginal. So when you test for example power cords on Torii you can't see any difference between cheap cable and audiophile expensive one.

If you want to trust in these tests you need to know the whole background or even better to test yourself.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Lon on 12/01/12 at 17:46:58

Hmmmm. . . I have a power regenerator and can hear the differences between power cords on the Torii Mk III quite clearly despite the regulation tubes (and the differences in the regulation tubes). So .. . It's not all that cut and dried for me.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 17:54:53

Lon: you mean that after all filters when you have clean power there is still it matter what cable to use? Is it just the fact that the amplifier itself cause interferences?

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by marky on 12/01/12 at 18:03:59

Thats a good observation Ed.
How much is overkill ?
Tracing backwards, Steve extols the virtues of the rectifier valve. ok.
His power cable backs this up by not pretending to be anything but a well made component of good+ quality silver wires . No pretence of super ingredient x rf shieldings etc. I think he says it adds or subtracts nothing.
So plug in and play or go through a mains conditioner ?
Well, I had the conditioner before Steves amps so I cant comment as to whether there is a big change.
I would always however prefer to take out as much interference as I could so the cable/rectifiers have an easier job.

oops out of sync. Sorry Lon/Ed

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Lon on 12/01/12 at 18:06:56

The amplifier causes interferences? I don't get that.

I mean I've tried ten different power cords* on the Torii Mk III (power cord going between the Torii and my Power Plant Premier) and I can hear the differences between them. I have a friend who also heard the differences between some of these cords on the Torii. The Decware cord was actually in the bottom third of the pack to my ears. A great cord. I like others better. The cord I like best, by a considerable margin, is the PS Audio AC-12.

My experience matters to me.

* Cords were Tara Labs, My Audio Cable HC, My Audio Cable Burly, Decware Silver Reference, PS Audio Prelude, PS Audio Plus SC, PS Audio Statement, PS Audio Premier SC, PS Audio AC-10 and PS Audio AC-12.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by ski bum on 12/01/12 at 18:34:20

I have strong science based tendencies, and agree with much of the linked article.

In spite of that, I find the sort of systems that would make Peter Aczel and his ABX sycophants puke blood somehow manage to be able to achieve more of the "Gestalt of music" in the end. Often for less investment, too. Decware gear is pretty much the definitive example of such.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by marky on 12/01/12 at 19:02:36

Believe me, if you think it`s just volts, amps, ohms, capacitance, and inductance, that must be calculated for, in what comes out of the other end of your Decware amps, be content.
Theres a whole other world of lesser know goings ons that your master engineer has to deal with.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 19:16:12

Why power cables matter
There’s a lot of controversy and misinformation surrounding the subject of AC power quality, power delivery systems and the importance of the power cable in a high-end system. Power cables matter if gaining all that’s possible with any piece of equipment matters – and most high-end system owners would perhaps agree this is a goal worth pursuing.

One of the first questions people typically ask is why the last 6 feet of power cable matters when typically there are hundreds of feet of power delivery wires feeding the AC to the wall socket in the first place. The answer is deceptively simple and can be addressed in two parts: the equipment is not at the end of the delivery system and most of the noise that degrades performance is generated by the equipment itself.

Your equipment is not at the end
It is a common misconception that a piece of equipment is at the end of the power delivery chain when, in fact, it is actually in the middle of that chain.

AC power has two conductors (ignoring the ground wire which is only for noise and safety) and power flows in a loop between the two conductors – your equipment sitting right in the middle of that loop. So the unit is not at the end of the chain, but rather in the middle and this is the area where the AC power is subjected to high levels of noise – and that noise can degrade the audio or video quality significantly.

The source of noise
The majority of noise is actually generated by the equipment itself and for this reason, it is critically important that the externally exposed middle of the power loop be well shielded both internally (to the power cable) and externally (to the other equipment).

A stock power cable is perhaps the worst thing you can use to connect your equipment as these are neither protected internally or externally and their construction does not support the reduction of complex interactions and noise generated by the equipment.

To get the most out of your system you should consider replacing all your stock power cables with well designed low noise versions. Doing so will help the performance of your system immeasurably and, depending on the type of power cable you wind up with, can contribute to significantly lower system noise, less glare riding on the music and better micro and macro dynamics.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Fireblade on 12/01/12 at 19:35:57

I'm a newbie, of course, but I'm also a very analytical person. My love for music has forced me to confront mentally many of the paradigms this hobby has to offer, and I'm about to conclude that everything is basically a few physical rules and a lot of trial-and-error by gear designers.

At the high-end level, nobody really seems to know exactly what's going on, so the more passionate and talented designers use their ears and keep constantly trying to sort of 'discover' the kinds of winning sinergies mentioned earlier. Problem is, these are not transferable to other conditions, as the discoveries are not really scientific by any means.

Audio engineering principles are just a basic component in this equation, the rest being plain talent/intuition, experience and patience to try as much as possible, until a set of apparently unrelated combinations within the physical realm of the subject yield that special, sinergistic effect.

I don't think at this point in my brief evolution that most published stories about what seems to be an apparent success rule, is really absolute. There are simply too many affectting variables involved, most of them actually unmeasurable.

The less open minded among us tend to be dismissive about these contradictions, because evidently these do not conform to their disciplined thinking process. At the other extreme, there are the passionate believers in every fad or questionable 'breakthrough.'

So, power cords matter? Maybe, depends. You need to decide for yourself, by trying. If you move to another house, you probably would need to start over. C'est la vie!

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by orangecrush on 12/01/12 at 19:41:33

It's simple, trust your own ears.

There is no truth in audio. Our systems will sound different from day to day due to an unbelievable amount of variables that we cannot control.

Some people use cables as tone controls. Nothing wrong with that. Some want warm systems, some want to hear more detail. There are many ways to achieve the same results.

I love what balanced power brings to my system, but others choose a different route for power conditioning. Some find silver harsh and detailed, I find it warm and organic. That what makes this a hobby! I find tweaking the variables makes me
feel closer to the music.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/01/12 at 19:52:59

Nice words orangecrush and Fireblade. Tweaking things and hope for better sound is thing that connects us all. I want to improwe my system from time to time that is a best part of audiophilocholism :)

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Lon on 12/01/12 at 20:23:24

EdGuY wrote on 12/01/12 at 19:52:59:

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by marky on 12/01/12 at 22:39:04

I find it remarkable that a signal can be amplified so many times at different stages and still sound as if it were coming straight through one source. Stylus to step-up to phono amp to pre and then power. All those potential distortions and you get clean distortion free music.
The signal never changes,it just picks up very small additions from a variety of sources along the way which ride on the sinewave. Platter mats to keep vibrations to a minimum. Outboard power supplies to drive the belt more quietly. Tube dampers when you cant hear microphony ?, isolation equipment works. Very epensive power chords when you allready have a mains purifier seems illogical.
Sometimes its as if you think you might be improving the signal when you are only removing the tiniest impurities picked up along the way.
The biggest impurities are what ride on the mains supply.
Your electric company dosn`t think hifi, but household appliances.

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by marky on 12/01/12 at 23:09:53

I think you can make sensible choices for your systems well being,
but there comes a point when it becomes like tube rolling. Not so much better, but different...a new flavour. :)

Title: Re: Tets of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by EdGuY on 12/02/12 at 07:30:15

Tube rolling is one of good things in all this (tube amps) an you can easily hear the difference, no test equipments needed.

This is my next product I'going to test, cable should arrive in few days. I think my curren INAKUSTIK kable losing too much higher frequencies (cable lenght 35ft). I hope thes cable will help. I changed Advents tweetwrs (89db) to Ribbons (100db) so there is need for better highs performance in kable. I really want to hear big improvements..

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/qed-xtube-xt400-speaker-cable-p-960.html

Title: Re: Tests of audiophile myths - what you think.
Post by Rap on 12/05/12 at 08:45:52

Sounds like what you really need is a buffer/cable driver Ed.