Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1353455657 Message started by orangecrush on 11/20/12 at 23:54:17

Title: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/20/12 at 23:54:17 Received my Ingress Audio Engineering Isolation Roller Blocks for my Anedio D2 Dac and also my Zu SuperFly Speakers. One word: WOW.  :) This is the biggest tweak I have made to made system to date. They are also beautifully made and hand polished. For $65 per set of three standard roller blocks, they are a real bargain. Here are pics before I get to how they sound: I ordered one set of three for my Dac shown here: I also ordered 2 sets of four for my speakers with threaded holes on the top of the upper cups to thread into my speakers: Here they with the threaded insert installed: Upper cup threaded into the Zu SuperFly: Installation complete: Under the Anedio D2 Dac: Another view: Ok, they look good, how do they sound: Wow. When I said this is the single biggest tweak so far, I mean it. It is on par with the difference the Audiophilleo with PurePower made to my system. They are extremely neutral and not tone controls. There is a very noticeable increase of transparency and resolution, both high and low level detail. I also noted a more focused and cohesive sound stage, but more importantly for me, a much more fluid, organic and relaxed sound. No trace of the 'digital' harshness or edge that I cannot stand. Interestedly, the improvement is very similar to the benefits of low jitter with the addition of the Audiophilleo and battery PurePower. That change was especially obvious for me with high resolution recordings. It made them sound glorious, so natural, organic, fluid and relaxed. I found compelled to listen to music louder then my CD quality music. Zero irritation for long listening periods. The Ingress Audio's Isolation Bearings has now brought my regular CD quality recordings up to almost the same level as my high rez music. I can no longer hear such a large difference between the two. I am so impressed with these babies. The best $65 tweak, I have tried. It very cool is touch the speakers or dac and see them rock back and forth effortlessly. They feel like they hovering in mid air. Mike is a pleasure to deal with and he gladly made custom threaded ones for my speakers for a small machining cost. I have not tried them under the Torri yet, but somehow I think Herbies Iso-Cups just can't be beat for open chassis tube amplifiers.  One day I will try them out. I think though, I will order another custom threaded set for my heavy Balanced Power Transformer. I never felt the standard spikes did much. Here is the website: http://www.ingress-engineering.ca I believe he offers generous return policy if you don't like them.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/21/12 at 00:15:26 Thanks for the pics and the info. I ordered two sets of three shortly after you did, and plan to put them under my speakers first to check them out. I have a sort of primitive roller set up under them now (Herbie's acrylic balls in automotive freeze plugs) and they have given me a similar sonic benefit that you describe. Mine have been in the mail long enough that I expect them any day.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/21/12 at 00:32:45 Thats awesome Lon, I think you will really like them. Not sure how he makes money on these. I think they excel for digital components and speakers. Even though they are similar to Symposium RollerBlocks, Mike has put his own time and research into getting these just right. The tried different spikes on my speakers and they all sounded harsher. I tried magnetic levitating feet and they sounded dead and dull. These do not seem alter the tone of the speakers, just increase the speakers resolution. The threaded option for speakers makes it much easier to tweak speaker placement if you are by yourself. Let me know if you try them on the Torii as I won't have any more time to play until the holidays. Have to go work to pay for all this stuff :'(

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Donnie on 11/21/12 at 00:52:08 Are they aluminum or steel? Uncle Donnie has a week off and machine tools at his disposal.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/21/12 at 00:58:09 I agree that cones don't cut it, and I had Herbie's Gliders under the speakers for a while but wasn't really convinced they improved the sound, they did make them sound different. As I said, my rudimentary roller block attempts (inspired by the system engineer Barry Diament uses) do make a similar difference, not altering the tonal balance but smoothening and deepening the sound. I'll post my impressions. Probably won't try them under the Torii or elsewhere if they make a noticeable difference under the speakers, I'm very happy with the Iso-Cups there. Probably in time will order a few more pairs to try under CSP2+ and ZP3 if I like what these do.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/21/12 at 01:01:06 Donnie, follow the link OC posted, they show a number of photos. The base pieces are aluminum, the ball bearings are steel.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/21/12 at 02:21:34 Those r sweet! Exactly what i was looking for.  They really class up the speaker...and they sound good? Gotta give em a try. Thanks OC

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/21/12 at 02:36:25 He also offers tungsten carbide bearings for further experimentation. I tried Herbies gliders as well, but was not wowed.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by tgarden on 11/21/12 at 06:12:02 I was planning on ordering eight Herbie's gliders for my Decware MG944's,  but after reading this thread I'm not  interested in the gliders anymore. Definitely will order eight of the Ingress Roller blocks in the near future. Just debating if I should get them threaded with inserts? or not? Mike in Seattle area

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/21/12 at 15:32:18 For large floor standing speakers the threaded inserts makes them much easier to work with. For bookshelf speakers I think you would not need them and the could just use 3 instead of 4.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 17:43:24 Still waiting for mine. . . :( Yesterday I removed my homemade roller bearing setup just to see what an impact it makes on the sound. Put them back in really quickly! They really do make a difference, and I'm eager to hear what the Ingress Audio roller blocks do under the same speakers (HR-1). On a related isolation note I changed the interconnects I was using from ZP3 to CSP2+ from MAC Silver Quad + to my trusty old pair of TARA Labs RSC Reference. (Which was a very pleasing move). These form an arch between the two components because they are so stiff and rigid, and they sag apart a bit in the center of the arch. Just for grins I stuck a little isolation puck that I have from a Cambridge Audio DAC "Magic One" component I used to use in the gap between the two cables at the center of the arch. I noticed a subtle change, a tightening of the sound and a bit of bass warmth, welcome change. I wasn't sure I wasn't imagining it, but when my pal Dave was over last night I started with the puck out and when he went into the kitchen for a minute I slipped it in. About ten minutes later he said "What did  you do?" Well, he knows me, I like to do this sort of stuff from time to time, but he heard a bit of a change to the sound (we were listening to the Porcupine Tree "Anestethize" Blu-ray which is quite a hi-res sound). So. . . maybe this is something imagined. . . but it's a folie a deux.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 18:51:55 OC ,how thick r those? I know on the Superflys u r supposed to start with a  1/4 inch gap and go from there. They look thicker than that.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 18:57:49 Lon, Porcupine Tree? Nice, ive seen them live and they r awesome! Im still getting a hum in the speakers, not sure what to do.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 19:13:18 Is it possible that it's tube related? Is it coming through on both channels?

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/25/12 at 19:20:18 Rockn, it is one inch. With the tapered slots, floor gap is not a issue as long as you have a minimum of 1/4". From 6 moons: The Grieve loading always relied on a precise floor gap to function properly. The Essence circumvented possible user error by fixing the gap with its lacquered twin plinth. For the Soul, that detail was too complex. "The Soul instead has asymmetric slots on the bottom. The only requirement is that the cabinet sit at least 1/4 inch off the floor. We recommend and show long spikes since the Soul simply looks cooler when floating above the floor."

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 19:20:56 Its both channels. This is only my second tube amp so im not sure. Im assuming the tubes that came with it r the best choice.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 19:29:27 Ok cool, thanks OC. Do u have any problem with any hum from your speakers with the tori? Was wondering since we have the same speakers.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 19:33:08 rockn wrote on 11/25/12 at 19:20:56: Its both channels. This is only my second tube amp so im not sure. Im assuming the tubes that came with it r the best choice. Interesting. . . well I have a little hum coming from my speakers but I have to be very close to them to hear it, and I generally don't hear it. Doesn't intrude or bother me.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/25/12 at 20:20:39 The Zu's have a very high efficiency of 101dB so you will hear a bit of hum, but even so, I have to be literally right at the speaker to be able to hear it. There is a slight transformer hum at Torri itself. I have had two bad tubes that caused audible hum, hissing from the speakers but it was easy to pin point as it was only one channel, so I could swap tubes from one side to the other until I found the culprit. What is your audio path? Try starting over with just the amp connected to the speakers and then start adding components one at a time. Also, plug everything in the same circuit if you can.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/25/12 at 21:01:05 Could it be the tube in the iDecco? Since it has just one tube, you would hear it in both channels?

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 21:04:49 Good point.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 21:09:19 I posted earlier that when i power up the idecco, thats when the hum comes into play. It is audible when I'm right on top of it. Not that big a deal. I'll try some things as the days go by. Amp is breaking in nicely, had a good listening session Sat night, before i knew it it was 3:00am! Thanks guys.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/25/12 at 21:15:34 Most of the time i have the tube in the idecco powered off as this sounds better at times. Would it still be audible powered off? Something i could look into and maybe upgrade the tube while I'm  at it.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/26/12 at 20:17:29 After reading this post again, I apologize for getting off the subject. But I am putting in my order today with Ingress Audio!

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/26/12 at 20:23:58 Hey, the way I look at it, these are conversations and they aren't always just strictly on topic! I wish I had the answer about your hum. Perhaps Steve might have some advice, it's worth calling about.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/27/12 at 00:45:14 Cool, can't wait to hear your impressions.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/27/12 at 03:15:05 Rockn, just in case you order what I have, please note I ordered 1/4-20 threads because I use adapters thread adapters for my Zu's. I believe the Zu's come with 3/8–16 threads.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/27/12 at 05:26:53 OC, not sure i follow you, what are adapter thread adapters? Should i just go with 3/8 instead of 1/4 thread? I did mention you & the superflys and Mike said 1/4 thread. I think i better call him back.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/27/12 at 12:00:23 Still waiting on mine, shipped November 12.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/27/12 at 15:40:02 You need 3/8-16 (check Zu's website to be sure). I ordered 1/4-20 because I have some adapters that I needed to use with some other footers.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by rockn on 11/27/12 at 16:17:52 Thanks OC, I'll do that.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/28/12 at 23:03:00 Received mine today. Very well made product. Sound is similar to the homemade roller situation I was using, if a bit brighter. Very open mid-range and sweet top end, where my setup differs is that there is a bit more of a lower midrange bloom that I am used to and dare say right now prefer. I need to play around with placement though. My homemade solution cost me a total of 24 dollars, this cost 138 altogether. The problem with my homemade solution is that if you bump the speaker a bit it's all over, you have to do the set up again, a few minutes of not so much fun. As my best male friend and frequent listening and viewing partner struggles with cerebral palsy and needs a wide berth to get around due to the way my place is set up about one in twenty times he passes by they get bumped off their setup. I don't believe this will be the case with the Ingress items. Which will be nice, he'll be less embarrassed (though he shouldn't be) and I'll spend less time messing with the roller blocks. Not sure I would use these under components, but I think they'll be nice under the speakers once I get them situated. Thanks for the tip.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/29/12 at 00:15:14 Nice report Lon. Very interesting, as my low range tends to lean toward being a bit to heavy and even a tad muddy at times. The isolation bearings have proven to be excellent in this regard. They really tightened up the bass in my room.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/29/12 at 01:17:55 Well, I have an opposite problem, quite a lively room and bass has always been the thing i seek rather than temper. That said, these blocks have seated themselves in the carpet a bit more and I'm getting a little more of what I need. I think when I can I'll order another set and try that under my PS Audio Perfectwave Transport. I have to stack that on top of my Perfectwave DAC Mark II and I did have both of them on Herbie's Audio Lab Iso-Cups (with deep moss balls and the high-end bases) but recently found that the Transport sitting directly on top of the DAC with the feet removed it sounds almost identical, so I removed the Iso-Cups between them (they actually are made to be stacked this way if desired, there are five felt circles, one at each corner and one in the center, and there are little lips that fit over the wooden tops of each unit and secure the two together nicely). Between these two units would be a nice place to try these Roller blocks.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/30/12 at 06:11:17 Lon, the tungsten carbide bearings are supposed to deliver extreme low bass impact and definition and even less edginess. Not sure if it worth trying them or not.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 11:22:28 Interesting, Would be worth experimenting with sometime. I found a speaker positioning that is nice, and I'm quite happy with the sound. All that I had with my homemade version and a bit more, plus more stable.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 12:37:05 I'm living dangerously and ordered another set, will use it either under my PWD Transport or DAC Mk II.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Donnie on 11/30/12 at 13:12:57 Here are some carbide balls. They ain't cheap. http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Raw-Materials/Metals/Carbide-Blanks/Carbide-Balls/_/N-77e0k?refinement=4289098945&searchandizedOk=Y

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 14:12:04 Thanks Donnie. You're right, they're not cheap. I notice that Mike was at an audio show and was featuring ceramic balls as well, which makes sense as some claim some of these are harder still. Right now very happy with the standard balls. It's not low bass impact I seek as much as it's a bit of mid and low bass emphasis perhaps. . . . But with a new speaker location the sound is pretty much tonally where i want it now. My homemade set up provided a bit more of this emphasis which didn't dull dynamics but did cloud detail just a smidgeon, which can be a good thing with most of the recordings I spin, but it's a fine line a lot of the time. Quite happy with these roller blocks, and the set up won't fall apart if bumped as my other set up does.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Donnie on 11/30/12 at 14:27:15 Ceramic balls are much cheaper than carbide. http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=bearings&Product_Code=Kit7807&Category_Code=BearingBalls

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 15:26:58 Yes, they are.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 11/30/12 at 15:36:57 Mike sells the tungsten carbide bearings for $12 each. Symposium claims nothing is better and ceramic is very poor in comparison. That's great you found a sweet spot Lon.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by will on 11/30/12 at 16:22:24 How many are there for 65C?

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 16:30:10 A set of three.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by will on 11/30/12 at 16:51:23 Are you using three under each speaker and finding it stable?

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 17:35:27 Yes, under the HR-1s: two in the front one in the back, stable. I see no need for four.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 17:55:20 orangecrush wrote on 11/30/12 at 15:36:57: Symposium claims nothing is better and ceramic is very poor in comparison.   I'm happy with the balls supplied right now. It's funny, Nordost seems to love ceramic balls.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Donnie on 11/30/12 at 18:10:12 Carbide balls for a lot less. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Precision-Tolerance-Diameter/dp/B003F24JN4/ref=sr_1_10?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1354298743&sr=1-10&keywords=carbide+ball+3%2F8

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by marky on 12/01/12 at 00:05:39 Couldn`t resist this from a happy customer from Donnies thread  :) We all know how difficult it is finding quality tungsten carbide balls. You go to your local tungsten carbide ball store and pick one up off the shelf, only to get home and find that your tungsten carbide ball isn't round enough, or it's not shiny enough, or it's not tungsteny enough. And there would be wailing and the gnashing of teeth, "Why? Why, Lord, can't someone produce a decent tungsten carbide ball?" I can now report that the Almighty has heard your prayers, and behold, the Small Parts tungsten carbide ball, grade 25. If you put a Small Parts tungsten carbide ball on an inclined plane, believe me, it will roll down said plane. Those bargain brand tungsten carbide balls: who knows what they'll do? These little guys are stiffer than steel, denser than titanium, and make excellent Christmas stocking stuffers. Tungsten carbide rules!

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 12/01/12 at 00:22:14 I saw that too, funny! ;D Regarding ceramic, I think in this application it would not be the best match for the aluminum cups as noted below. Mike diamond polishes the Tungsten Carbide bearings so $12 is still a pretty fair price all things considered. Symposium charges far more! From Symposium: Similarly, listening tests in different systems with various components confirmed that Tungsten Carbide was the best ball bearing material. While many might assume that this is due to Tungsten Carbide's extreme hardness, Tungsten Carbide's excellent mechanical transmission qualities, which are close to aluminum, make it a better "match" to aluminum alloy and thus a better choice than ceramic balls (which have slightly greater hardness but inferior transmission characteristics) for preserving mechanical transmissivity through the entire Rollerblock structure, a primary design consideration.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/03/12 at 13:49:43 Mike emailed me that he bought a new tool for machining the aluminum and now the spherical cavity is better machined and he thinks there's a new sonic benefit. New ones will be the new machining.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by setamp on 12/04/12 at 13:51:13 Lon,  I'll be interested to hear how the blocks work under your PWD MkII.  I am using this dac and am looking for a way to tone down the lower treble / upper mids.  I am using ceramic cones currently which are better than nothing and better than herbies tenderfeet but I suspect there is a more optimal solution.  I am running the PWD MkII with 2.02 firmware into my CSP2+ / Taboo with LCD2.1 headphones.  It's a good rig but with just a little hardness to overcome.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Robbls on 12/05/12 at 08:45:04 Talk about with friends

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/08/12 at 13:50:41 SETamp, sorry I missed your post. I've got Herbie's Iso-Cups under my PWD Mk II with Deep Moss Quartz 1" balls (set up so that the balls don't make contact with the felt) and I'm very happy with this, considerably different than Tenderfeet and seems to not have any hardness (I had some treble hardness initially but after 500 hours or so I think it burned away, and I use the treble cut circuit on my Torii to tailor treble for my whole system, that may be helping too). I recently played around with just having the PWT sit on top of the PWD, and on Tenderfeet but found that if I use the same balls in Iso-Cups under it as well and avoid having the balls sit on the felt pads I get the best results for Redbook. I love this DAC, it's great with hi-res through optical or coaxial, and I think I love the Redbook so much in part because I use the PWT and its HDMI connection; I think having the I2S connection makes a difference. Although not as pronounced as with the Torii, location of the Iso-Cups makes a significant sonic difference. In between my last posts I've done some thinking and I think I will try the Ingress Audio rollerblocks under the PWD in time but my plans for my next pair is to try them under the CSP2+ as that will influence the sound from all my sources (PWT/PWD, Blu-ray and DVR through PWD, ZP3). I expect the rollerblocks to work better than the Herbie's Tenderfeet there now. If I can then order other sets of rollerblocks I'll try them under the PWT and under the PWD and perhaps after that the ZP3. If you decide to order a set and try them under the PWD before I do, let me know how they sound. will, if you order three, I've now mine configured with one in the front and two in the back, seems better this way.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by will on 12/08/12 at 14:45:45 Thanks Lon, Have not ordered yet, but hope too.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 12/12/12 at 02:38:11 Received my forth set today for my power conditioner and also some of the tungsten carbide balls. The new bearings weigh almost twice as much. It's too early to form impressions yet, but i did notice the new bearings make listening at lower volumes much more satisfying.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/12/12 at 02:51:40 Cool! I'm still waiting on my second order. I'm going to try them  under the CSP2+ where I think they'll have a chance to shine. Don't think I'm going to spring for carbide balls. If I can I may squeeze in another order at the end of next week. . . I'll be out of town for eight days which will help with the long waiting period for them to arrive.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/12/12 at 21:45:58 So OC, any difference/improvement with the rollerblocks under the power conditioner?  I've tried different footers under mine but I"m not sure there's any big differences. . . . .

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 12/13/12 at 01:42:33 Hey Lon, I can't say I can hear a difference with the power conditioner. I think, that because it's so heavy, the spikes did a good job. The biggest change was on the speakers and then the Dac. I am playing with the tungsten bearings right now.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/13/12 at 03:17:17 Interesting. I'm still waiting for my second order, going to go under the CSP2+. . . . If it's a keeper there I'll try another set next year under the DAC.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/13/12 at 23:04:09 Well, my next set arrived. I placed them under the CSP2+ replacing the Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet there. A disctinctly positive change to the sound. The root change seems to be a blacker background. Which means dynamics are a bit more pronounced and images a bit heftier. I'm going to order more.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/16/12 at 13:23:05 I notice that like the Iso-Cups these roller blocks influence different sounds according to their placement. I have those under the speakers about an inch in from the back corners and about an inch and a half in from the front center, and under the CSP2+ two placed so that the outer edges are just at the chassie edge, and likewise in the center of the front chassis bottom. I ordered four more sets, which should arrive around the new year. Planned placement is under my ZP3, my PWD Mk II, my PWT and my Denon DCD-A100. Sets of three. And then I'll decide whether to order a set of four for under the Torii. . . .

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 12/16/12 at 17:40:06 That's awesome Lon. I have the same placement under my Dac. The tungsten bearings are a very subtle upgrade at best. Very hard to pick out the differences. I would stay with the steel bearings. I really want to try them under the Torrii as well, maybe over the holidays.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/16/12 at 19:18:57 Well, with these under the preamp I can say that these are better than the Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet. The next batch will let me know if they are better than Iso-Cups under source components. That's a bit of a stiffer contest but I think they may win. As I think you mentioned before, the Iso-Cups are so good under the Torii I'm loathe to move them out!

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by setamp on 12/24/12 at 13:31:10 I received 1 set on Friday and was able to experiment a little over the weekend.  I found the component to benefit the most was my CSP2+.  I will definitely add another set either under my PWDmkII or Taboo.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 01/05/13 at 17:40:42 Just a quick note (my computer died while I was on vacation in Ohio and I'm having it repaired). . . . I got three sets of the roller blocks and played around with placement. My general conclusions: four under a speaker or component sounds better than three; these sound better than Herbie Audio Lab Tenderfeet, but I still prefer the Isocups under the Torii by quite a bit, and under source components but a lesser bit.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 01/07/13 at 19:53:17 Played around with all my isolation components some more. . . I love these rollerblocks for speakers. I have them under the speakers in both my systems now. But. . . I've removed them from under components in the main system because I feel that even the Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet work a bit better for me, and the Iso-Cups even more so. (My situation with my CSP2+ and ZP3 may be a bit different than others as I'm using really thick PS Audio power cables (AC-12) and they need a firmer, less jiggly, footer as the angle of the cord tends to pull on the component). It's been fun playing around with these. They now are under most components in my second system.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 01/10/13 at 15:35:15 Got a notice from Ingress Audio Engineering that they are now shipping with one of the blocks featuring a recessed groove and O-ring.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by stone_of_tone on 01/11/13 at 16:44:42 Thanks orangecrush & Lon for your great input on this product! I look forward to trying them....and affordable.  -Stone

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 02/24/14 at 22:35:44 Well, I eventually found I did not prefer these under components in comparison to the Herbie's Audio Lab Iso-Cups, and though they may work a bit better under my CSP2+s and ZP3 the way I have these set up they move about too much and I have gone back to using Herbie's Audio Lab Tall Tenderfeet there. But under speakers? The Roller Blocks rule. I have them under all three sets of Decware speakers in use in my house and Dad's. And this week I decided to try to place large Herbie's Audio Lab Grungebuster Dots between the speaker and the top of the Roller Blocks. This has been a positive change and I'm keeping it for a while. Man twenty years ago I would have thought I was nuts playing around with isolation control products, but I find they make a difference and I like this as much as tube-rolling, sometimes more.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 02/24/14 at 23:10:59 I agree 100% Lon. Under speakers there is nothing better. The only component I have them under is my very heavy BPT-1 balanced isolation transformer. But they are threaded in. No sure how much difference I can tell in that application. Iso-cups sound best under my Torii. I am trying those Waipuna myrtle wood feet under my DAC and so far I like them.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lonely Raven on 02/25/14 at 01:10:23 Are any of you using these on carpet? Or all wood floors? I've got cheap spikes on the Herbie's Giant Gliders because I've got thick berber carpet and padding, and I honestly wasn't wow'd...except that they are super easy to adjust with the gliders! LOL

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 02/25/14 at 01:22:27 Interesting, looked those Waipuna up. Look as if they would be too lively for my system, both brass footers and myrtlewood footers have seemed that way in my system when I've tried them. But if they work they are certainly affordable. Eric, Yes, I've been using mine on carpeted floors. Works fine: the weight of the speakers flattens the carpet under the bottom piece and then the top piece floats on the bearing. I like what adding the Grungebuster does.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 02/25/14 at 01:28:06 Mine are on laminate floors. Lon, yes they do tend to be a bit lively under other components, especially with tubes. But I really like under my solid state DAC. They seem to bring some organic like smoothness without any dulling or damping if that makes any sense.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 02/25/14 at 01:33:01 Oh that makes sense. Brass and myrtlewood were both too lively for me under SS source components in the past. I find the black Iso-Cup bases with the Deep Moss Quartz gemstone balls give the just the right balance for me, I'm sticking with 'em. :)

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 02/25/14 at 01:36:01 LOL I am using the clear iso cups with the base and the cheap lampblack balls.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 02/25/14 at 01:58:56 I have the clear bases with the high end base in my second system now. The differences between the balls are subtle, but real, the gemstone balls really do seem to subtly influence the sound the way that Steve Herbelin has described them. The black base sounds about the same as the clear base with the high-end base. I have had fun experimenting with the different gemstone balls, I've tried about four. I use the Mexican Agate under my PPP, the Deep Moss Quartz with all the other bases.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by orangecrush on 02/25/14 at 01:59:57 I am going to get some. Thanks Lon.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 05/03/16 at 14:24:09 I've been using the Roller Blocks under my speakers. My speakers reside up near the wall just sitting on their bases when not in use or when in use when my wife is around (not ideal sonically). When I get a listening session I bring them out three to five feet from the front wall anyplace them on Ingress Engineering Roller Blocks. I've been using the steel ball bearings for a few years. I have four ceramic bearings Ingress sent me that sound a tad better (a tiny bit warmer and clearer) but I don't have enough to put under both speakers. My big pleasure in the Delrin platter I bought for my Rega turntable made me think to try Delrin 3/8" bearings, and I'm on my second day now and do like them. They close the gap a bit between digital and analog, and add a bit of warmth to analog. They are the opposite I think of the direction that Ingress and other roller block makers move, that is they are softer than steel, rather than harder than steel which the manufacturers seem to think is the route to better fidelity. Well, these Delrin bearings may color things a tiny thin hair, but that's what we are mostly doing with tubes and isolation components etc.: subtly coloring things as we like them. Anyway Delrin bearings are cheap and if you use roller blocks they are worth experimenting with.

Title: Re: Ingress Audio - Bearing Isolation Roller Blocks Post by Lon on 12/28/17 at 20:56:28 I'm no longer using the Ingress Rollerblocks under my speakers (or anywhere actuallY). I've found that since I have the ZROCK2 to augment lower frequencies that the early (one bearing) version of the VooDoo Cable Iso-Pods works best under my HR-1s. Really open midrange and sweet treble. As these tend to diminish lower frequency output a bit a touch of the EQ from the ZROCK2 makes compelling sound. I hate to shut the system down.

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