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EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> MINI TORII >> Psvane 12AT7
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Message started by Les Lammers on 11/07/12 at 14:46:56

Title: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/07/12 at 14:46:56

I'm an old tube guy and took a chance with a pair of these. After 50 hours they are outstanding in the Mini Torii. Huge soundstage, excellent detail and extension, 3D etc. I tried a lot of NOS in this amp but these are really special. There is some serious synergy here with all the 6V6's I have. Russian OA3's, EZ80's and Hytron OC2's complete the line up.

Tubes are circuit and system dependent so YMMV.

I'm ready for the Flames. 8-)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by busterfree on 11/07/12 at 18:52:50

No flames from me...

I was wondering about this tube, but I was hesitant to try. Maybe soon...

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/07/12 at 18:55:08

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lord Soth on 11/08/12 at 05:43:48

Hi Les,

I've been hearing lots of positive reviews about the PSVane tubes.

Thanks for posting your impressions.

Now we know that they work well in Decware too.

I've been eyeing the PSVane 300B tubes myself.
The NOS variants are just too darn expensive like the WE274b ... Etc.

For my next tube amp, I'll be picking up a 300B based SET amp.
I've always wanted to personally experience the "magic" behind these amps from the audio Golden Age of sound. ;)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/08/12 at 11:49:27

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lord Soth on 11/08/12 at 13:28:29

Grant Fidelity is selling a pair of Psvane 12AT7 for either US$99 (Best grade) or US$83 (Better Grade).

The price is inclusive of Worldwide delivery.

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/12at7-t-pair/

Hmmm... I just noticed something interesting.

The innards of the Psvane 12AT7 are similar to a Lorenz Stuttgart 3 Mica PCC88/6922 tube.

Maybe that is the reason for their sonics?

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/08/12 at 23:25:39

Old Cary Grant Fidelity. I should have known. I suppose if you wanted two input tubes that you could trust to last a long time it might be worth it. But how long will these things last?

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/09/12 at 00:14:50

Five years of heavy use perhaps?

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/14/12 at 12:03:27

Lord Soth, Grant has a super deal on a nice Shuguang 300B amp. For $799 delivered I am tempted. I've had 300B's before Psvane 300B's were around. In the amps I had the TJ perforated plate 300B's were very good. I actually preferred them to WE's.

Psvane small signal tubes: They are very good but still system and circuit dependent. Longevity? Time will tell. I bought mine from Grant
because I did not want to risk getting sub par samples. They are certainly top tier new production tubes. Very nice mid range and extended top to bottom in the Mini. They took a good while to settle in and I think that is because they are run conservatively. The red jewelry box is amusing. ;D

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/14/12 at 12:15:13

Glad to hear you're so happy with the Psvanes. Could you compare them with the Brimars in all those attributes? I know you like them better, evidently. But how far second are those Brimars, in your opinion? Again, this is a system-dependent issue and It may not reflect other people's conditions, but I'm curious.

They are a bit more forgiving with lesser recordings than the Brimars and have a bit of warmth in the midrange. I use the treble cut more with the Brimars. Both are very good. Just different. At $22.90 a pair ya can't complain. 8-)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/14/12 at 12:34:16

I've seen many posts elsewhere about these Pissvane tubes. I thought that many of them were posted by the makers to shill the reputation of these tubes.

Now after seeing your post, I have to face the possibility that at least this tube in that circuit works real well.

How much did these things cost? I have a problem with the way they are marketed and packaged, like jewelry.

I was skeptical too but, IMHO, they are worth the $99 shipped price. I think you may like them more than the Sylvania 12AT7's with the gold print. I got some after reading your posts. The first 12AT7's I tried in the Mini were Mullard 4024's from Upscale. Nice, but these are more open and extended. They do more things right than a lot of NOS and that is not an easy feat. I hope this helps.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lord Soth on 11/14/12 at 13:52:31

Hi Les,

Thanks for the intro on the Shuguang 300B tube amp.

If someone like "6 moons" has reviewed them thoroughly, I would be really tempted to pull out my wallet. For audio amp purchases, I'm the cautious type. ;)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/14/12 at 14:58:37

Aside from the already peculiar wide range of non-substitute but acceptable output tube and voltage regulation alternatives in the Mini-Torii, don't you guys find it curious that it can also take as wide a range of input tubes as 6N1P, 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7 and even manages different spec rectifiers at the same time (i.e.,, EZ81, EZ80), when absolutely all such alternatives are definitely deemed as not substitutes in the valve literature? Amazing! I wonder what are the (if any) trade-offs involved.

Sounds like a cliché, but this really implies having the possibility to change your amp according to your mood, room conds, cables, ancillary equipment changes, etc.

The only constant here is the low-power/high sensitivity speakers' scheme. Everything else is modifiable. In fact, I bet the ZStage (great concept!) can even further enhance the already incredible family of possible scenarios in a truly significant way ... A true trigger for tube-holism and an endless source of creative interest!

And the music, Oh! the music ... such sounds. All of the above would not mean anything if the end result wasn't the enhanced enjoyment we all share from our music. Err.. you can tell I've been without my amp for long enough now :(

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/14/12 at 15:57:28

Yes, very impressive. It's too much for me though. I love the flexibility offered by my Torii Mk III, but don't need all the tube options and possible sound offered in the Mini-Torii. . . . Just makes me queezy thinking of missing out on a possible fantastic sounding combo just because I hadn't exhausted all possibilities. And I'd rather relax and listen to the music than spend all that time trying out all possible tube combinations.

Hope you get your amp back up and running very soon!

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/14/12 at 16:06:20

I absolutely agree. But it does amaze me to consider all the possibilities involved, at least from a fine-tunning entertainment point of view. Instead of wondering about some upgrades here or there, a couple pair of tubes once in a while may bring some pepper to the listening experience, at very little risk.

Thanks for the wishes, Lon.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/14/12 at 16:40:52

The possibilities are so endless! Because "upgrades" can come in different forms from isolation and power changes, mastering choices of the software material, room treatment. . . even improving one's listening skills. All of which can lead you back to . . . speculating about tubes and rolling some. . . .;)

My late wife's brain spun with endless speculation and though it did bring her benefits, I also know she hardly ever relaxed, hardly ever just let input to her senses flow over and into her without analysis and in many ways. . . anguish. Being with her definitely influenced me and pulled me in that direction and I've made a conscious effort to keep a restraint, a limit on the extent if that makes sense. Sometimes tube-rolling pushes me in the direction I'm trying to avoid. Knowing myself, I'm glad I have the Torii in the main system and have pretty much ended my tube speculation for that component.

Listening to the system right now I say to myself "Sounds so good, don't mess with anything." Yeah, just days before my ZP3 will arrive, which I predict will be a game-changing component! :)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/14/12 at 23:49:36

I love the flexibility offered by my Torii Mk III, but don't need all the tube options and possible sound offered in the Mini-Torii. . . . Just makes me queezy thinking of missing out on a possible fantastic sounding combo just because I hadn't exhausted all possibilities. And I'd rather relax and listen to the music than spend all that time trying out all possible tube combinations.

That is a sure trip to insanity. ;D Been there. Personally, I am just going to keep it simple. I got a pair of test NOS Tung Sol original 6V6's and the new issue sounds better to me. Before the amp arrived I got a pair of Pope 6V6's from Upscale Audio..nice but the new issue TS and Gold Lions sound better to me. I am done with power tubes unless a bargain pops up.

The Psvanes 12AT7's are the most $$$ small signal tubes I have ever bought but they were still cheaper than some NOS. I did not have any 12AT7's in my small collection so I had to try a few different ones but I am not going to try everything out there. The goal is enjoying music, not perpetual tube rolling. I am not pounding the table about the Psvanes. I'm just happy to see excellent new production small signal tubes.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/15/12 at 00:29:15

Sure, Les, agreed. But, just imagine a relationship in which, once in a while, you want to add some spice into, by a change of scenery, a weekend out or something along those lines, just to break up the routine. You should never over do it, just enjoy the sporadic excitement of the change itself.

Rolling a tube or two every now and then is how this little amp can keep your interest forever, as opposed to be thinking in the newest amp models comig out all the time.

We should not get obsessed with it, but spicing things up now and then will help us all enjoy our hobby even more. I think this platform provides the perfect means to renew our relationship with it, indefinitely.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/15/12 at 01:17:16

Says the guy who hasn't rolled a tube ! ! :)

Just playing. I tell you, I am so happy with the Torii that I don't need to spice it up and I have coveted no other amp!

I think it's not universal, some owners love to roll, some are less prone. I know where I fall in that spectrum.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/15/12 at 01:57:31

That's right, Lon. I also haven't gone to the moon yet, but I bet is a long journey there ... :)

Seriously, I understand your position. That's just fine. I'm not the least interested in rolling tubes per se, either, just to have some additional fun, now and then.

I'm saying once I've initially settled for a few working tube sets that I enjoy the most out of a fixed (very limited) initial number of alternatives, I think it would be nice to try a few additional tubes over time, just for the thrill of it.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/15/12 at 02:13:45

Sure I understand. For me that's so. . . 1991. :)

I'd rather get more music new to me to listen to, in general, than futz with the tubes and general sound. I apparently can't get enough. .. I keep finding more. Just bought another batch of great 3 dollar jazz lps from one of my jazz bulletin board pals.

But we're all different. Than again, you may find that you don't roll tubes much, my earlier point is. . . you don't know yet exactly how you're going to react to rolling tubes, and there other ways to alter the signature too to play with.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/15/12 at 10:13:34

" ... and there other ways to alter the signature too to play with."

That's correct, and I intend to at least try most of them, in due time. Aspiring for the best sound to enhance the music listening experience is an essential part of this hobby, in my view.

I think there must be a critical path for an optimal, steady and gradual upgrade succession within one's own budget constraints. I intend to get as close as possible to that efficient evolution path.

I'm aiming at this by limiting trial-and-error experiences through some previous analytical screening. Tube-rolling is just part of this endeavor and the Mini offers an easy introduction to it.

No obsessions, just a passion for music at its best ... I truly share your love for music, Lon, although we may go about it in different ways. :)

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Lon on 11/15/12 at 11:39:30

And I recognize and enjoy your enthusiasm for this new realm of tubes, I remember how it used to have me in its grip.

You have lots of fun ahead, as do all of us with these excellent, revealing machines.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/15/12 at 22:32:56

Rolling a tube or two every now and then is how this little amp can keep your interest forever, as opposed to be thinking in the newest amp models coming out all the time.

Agreed...and reading too much into posts on the net, especially mine, can lead to insanity. ;D

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7 MKII
Post by Les Lammers on 11/19/12 at 23:16:09

I received a pair of the Psvane MKII 12AT7's today. It is a new and improved tube...so says Psvane. I just plugged them in they sound very good. I got 'em on fleabay from seller Salience. They were sent USPS from China and they arrived in about ten days. Price was $79 shipped for the pair. More after they settle in...but I can tell they are keepers.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/20/12 at 00:18:44

Excellent find, Les. I wonder how come USPS takes only 10 days from China and forever down here? Go figure! Enjoy your new drivers.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 11/20/12 at 03:01:21

The pair I got from Grant were sent registered mail. These were just in the mail box when I got home. I have sent items to Italy and their postal system is a mess. Maybe Panama takes lessons from Italy?

I have only seen these MKII tubes on fleabay.

Hope that box gets to you soon. I can request a trace after 30 days. The PO will figure it out but I am sure the issue is on your end.

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 11/20/12 at 03:34:06

I agree, Les. I was afraid of this since the beginning. I just sent you an email with some alternatives.

As a side note, I lived several years in Italy and never confronted this problem, and I really used the mail over there. Difference is night and day. It may not have the same standards as in the US, but at least in my experience the postal service was reliable. The only risks there were strike-related delays (unfortunately, these may be pretty common).

Title: Re: Psvane MK II 12AT7
Post by Les Lammers on 12/01/12 at 22:27:45

The MKII Psvanes are quite good too. I have a good selection of NOS, which I will still use occasionally, but these are indeed excellent and all around better, top to bottom, than anything I have tried in the Mini.

I have not really compared them to the older ones but me likes 'em both. ;D

Title: Re: Psvane 12AT7
Post by Fireblade on 12/02/12 at 14:39:16

Great! Another good (though somewhat expensive) alternative.

On a side note, I read from the Torii MKIII notes that the 6N1P-Ev that I have in the Mini Torii is 'warmish' compared to an equivalent 6922, which is also 'faster.' Since the latter are also quite cheap (russian), they may be of help in my case, I wonder.

Of course, the ideal would be the Psvanes due to their better sonic attributes.