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EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> SE84UFO >> New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
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Message started by Rivieraranch on 09/15/12 at 21:30:23

Title: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 09/15/12 at 21:30:23

With the new Super Zen, will we even need a Zen Select?

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/16/12 at 14:35:16

I am wondering the same thing?

I do look forward to comparing my stock SE84CS to my SuperZen in my main/reference rig/setup. The Amps only swaped out of course/all else equal.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by ZENCDUSER on 09/22/12 at 00:00:12

Was thinking the same! Cant wait for the new Super Zen website and photos ( HINT HINT Steve!!) ;D

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Steve Deckert on 09/25/12 at 21:24:11

The Select (SE84CS and then later the SE84ZS) used a better cathode resistor for the output stage and our WIMA FKP-1 series coupling caps which are of course very good.

The SuperZen is now using the same cathode resistor, but also has updated plate resistors, updated front end power supply (we removed the two 3.3uf poly caps) and the Jupitor bees wax foil caps with silver leads. These caps in this amplifier have a more organic sound and actually better transparency than even the VCAPS. Of course compared to an original SE84CS, the SuperZen has the CCE mod and the CKC mods and twice as thick of a chassis for less vibration. It will sound better, no question, however keep one thing in mind...

Zen amps get better sounding the older they get. An SE84CS from many years ago will sound better than a new SuperZen for quite some time, until the SuperZen has fully broken in and got some seasoning under it's belt. We have built new SE84CS and compared to new SuperZen to find out what the differences really were, and lets just say they are substantial.

Now the only difference between a new SE84ZS and the SuperZen would be the chassis itself. We will still offer the SE84ZS for anyone who prefers this style of chassis.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Steve Deckert on 09/25/12 at 21:25:19

Here is the page for the new Super Zen!

https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html

Steve

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by stone_of_tone on 10/01/12 at 14:59:08

Thanks Steve for this info. I look forward to having fun with my SE84CS and new CKC. I will start with the 5 hours on and off....... . I already know that I will have two of the most transparent & musical Amps on the planet. Have a great Decfest. -Larry

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/04/12 at 11:27:32

I'm not going to comment on the sound of the superzen because I dont know how much breakin is required . I have 005. went through all the breakin that Steve recommends . now I'm using it as I would any normal amp . The amp runs suprisingly cooler than zens of the past on which I have three. The transformer is smaller than the past zen ,white se84c+..... this superzen looks like its built to last into many generations of audiophiles.The huge 274 B rectifier is barely accomodated as it almost touches the transformer...... I have not gone back to the earlier generation of zen to compare either.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/04/12 at 11:57:07

Thanks for the update.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/09/12 at 06:24:45

I'm getting excited.....my CKC is in QC as of 11/5 email. I hope to get the ship email soon and it is coming with Zen Styx silver banana termination Speaker wire. -Stone

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/19/12 at 11:06:45

I've been struggling for 2 days now to explain my thoughts on the Superzen . I'm really trying to restrain myself by not blurting out childish remarks. This amp lacks nothing, restricts nothing, tells you whats on the particular cd,good or bad . lets you know when the engineer made an adjustment on the recording, good or bad ,so easy to listen to . the next positive stage in the evolution of the zen triode. Super...... yes........ fully broken in, probably not! Will I get my other zens upgraded to a superzen , you betcha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/19/12 at 14:51:26

My sentiments exactly, jameskk. I received mine on Friday and I have been pleased right out of the box/certainly far from broke in. I should be cleaning leaves out of my gutters.....but it will have to wait until tomorrow......... .

Masterpiece Steve.

Stone of Tone

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by rockn on 11/20/12 at 20:05:45

I'll be hooking up the S zen later! So whats the break in procedure? 5 hour on and off? with or without music? Bob

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/20/12 at 20:15:53

Play music as you normally would for five hours or so and then turn the amp off for at least five hours. That's what Steve prescribes. Works at getting the capacitors fairly well seated, gives you a good start towards the signature sound.

Congrats!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by rockn on 11/20/12 at 20:50:31

Thanks!! So I just need to do this once and I'm good?

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/20/12 at 21:01:39

No, sorry forgot to mention it's five cycles of on and off that Steve recommends.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by rockn on 11/21/12 at 02:28:27

Gotcha, thanks Lon. I can tell already this is a special little amp. Only 3 hrs in. Nice...

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by ZENCDUSER on 11/21/12 at 04:00:45

James and Rockn,

What speakers are you using with the SuperZen?

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/21/12 at 12:15:53

I want to bring out one more point. this amp is a great input tube tester. in 2 cases I tried 6dj8's bugle boy Dgetters and in both cases I had noise in both along with the original 6n1p that came with the amp. luckily I had more 6n1p's to use,and work flawlessly,and quiet!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by rockn on 11/21/12 at 13:53:22

I'm using Zu Superflys.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by DBC on 11/21/12 at 20:01:45

Rockn,

Just curious how much volume you are able to get out of that combo? I have been thinking about the Zu Superfly or perhaps Omen Def myself.

For the past 10 years I have run a Select with Klipsch RF-7's (101 db). Currently using an Oppo BDP-83SE connected directly to the Select and do not lack for volume in my relatively large listening area. I listen primarily to Rock and Blues so I like to crank it once in a while.

I never sent my Select in for any of the mods because I did not want to do without for a couple weeks while being modded. Now that the Super Zen is out I ordered one with the 6-16 ohm output transformers in case I decide to try the Zu's?

The Klipsch RF-7's are 8 ohm speakers so the comparison between my old Select and the new Super Zen will be interesting.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by ZENCDUSER on 11/21/12 at 21:01:37

Thanks for the response Rockn. I have a SuperZen with Tekton Lore speakers, but sent it back for Steve to check out, then possibly have the 6-12 ohm transformers installed. The stock amplifier was tanking out at the 12 O'clock position, and produce major distortion at 1 o'clock and higher, all the while producing volume less then my normal listening level. The Lore is a 98 db/8 ohm speaker and is similar in concept to the Zu's (Eric Alexander used to work there), but I learned from the Eric the main driver impedance never dips below 8 ohms, and peaks at 16 ohms at 1 khz.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by ZENCDUSER on 11/21/12 at 21:03:18

DBC,

I had killer results with a Select/Klipsch Forte I combo years ago. But the Forte I speakers are actually nominally 4 ohms!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by DBC on 11/21/12 at 22:09:28

ZENCDUSER,

Select & RF-7's are great also. With only 2 watts you have to have very high efficiency if you want to play loud.

I heard the Super Zen and HDT's (96 db) at the Zen Fest this year and was surprised how much reduced the volume was compared to my setup here at home. The sound was great but the available volume was not Rockin level. In fact I didn't think the Rachel and the HDT's played as loud as the Select / Klipsch RF-7 combo.

Zu seems to be the only real alternative to Klipsch for reasonably priced 100 db speakers. I love the Klipsch but as a music lover Zu has kind of peaked my interest.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/22/12 at 12:15:52

And about 2 or 3 weeks of regular use after that breakin ... I 'm using the Audio Nirvana super 8's, by common sense audio.com. In 2.8 cabinets , and 10 inch cast frames in 2.8 cabinets , both around 99db sensitivity. maybe not be the best out there,but they are close ,once broken in , and tweaked. :)

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/22/12 at 12:26:38

hey DBC the reason was probably the 5 volt output on the zcd as compared to the 2 volts on yours??????????? this is one of the main reason I like my zcd 200i. less pressure on the amp. Suprised not more of the Decwarephiles on this site dont use it . it's as good as their amps, another piece that takes a long time to breakin. Happy thanksgiving to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/22/12 at 13:07:40

Indeed, the 5 volt output of the ZCD does make a nice difference. I had one of the earlier models of ZCD with all the options but alas never warmed up to it, it just didn't have the sound I needed for most of my recordings and I started on another search for a source that ended up with me buying the PS Audio PerfectWave Duo. But from the feedback I read I was pretty much alone in that assessment of the ZCD, it seems to get lots of love and really should be tried in your system to see whether the synergy is there.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/22/12 at 13:42:33

Well before this player I had 2 rega apollo's which i loved . the tone of instruments just seemed better than most . the zcd seems more extended and has a deeper soundstage . however the rega ,at times really is impressive , thats why I have a rega Dac to work on the tascam side of the cd player, call me a cheater??? HaHa

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/23/12 at 11:05:43

to those who are concerned . the superzen on initial turnon ,as soon a the switch is turned on . the 274 rectifier is showing a small amount of flash......not audible , but present.........I think Steve wanted to know about this. dont know why it's doing this......... I would say theres anywhere from 50 to 80 hours on the amp from me. I bought 2 extra 274's , Justin Case!!!!!!!! Anyone know the difference in sound between a 274 and a 5u4,significant or minimal ?????????

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/23/12 at 13:10:08

The 274B gets really stressed in this circuit, which could lead to early tube failure. It would be safer to go with a 5U4G. Others have commented on the 274B sound.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/23/12 at 13:38:51

Though the Valve Art/Shuagang that Steve has been sending with some amps and talking about seems to be more of a 5U4G and doesn't arc or flash in my amps. It's an okay tube but ultimately it's too lean and forward for my everyday first choice use in the Torii. I didn't like it at all in a CSP2 or CSP2+.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/24/12 at 11:09:47

I thought the power supply was changed to accept this tube rectifier RR. I will try a different rectifier to see if the 5u4 is a less volitile choice . sound permitting of course. Lon I'm trying the 5y3gt ,i believe you recommended in another post in the csp2+ I have a couple RCA black plates........Going back to the 274 ,Steve didn't seem too confident with this tube in his writing of it . wonder if he did this to satisfy the tweaker in us all. Or does it really sound better with it!!!!!!!? It is impressive looking!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/24/12 at 13:12:36

I've tried 5U4G, that Valve Art 274B and 5Y3GT tubes as rectifiers in the CSP2+ and I clearly, definitively prefer the 5Y3GT tube in that circuit, it's the most accurate and natural sounding to my ears in my system.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/24/12 at 16:05:01

Thanks Lon . I'm listening to the superzen now with the 5u4 Shuguang . looks to be the same tube ,double getter and all ,without the big glass bottle. have to asylum these tubes or something to do a comparison read.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/24/12 at 16:53:38

Right, Steve has written that he considers them the same tube mechanically with the bigger bottle vacuum of the 274B giving it its bigger bolder sound (which is too big and bold for me, would be better for me if it were warmer, but big bold and--for my system--lean is not a good combination for me in the Torii, and big and bold just doesn't seem right in the CSP2+. Others like it though, in the Torii at least.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/24/12 at 18:59:46

We compared the Valve Art '274B' and the Valve Aart 5U4G up there at
DECFEST and found them to be identical internally.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/25/12 at 11:22:02

Lon and Rivieraranch, I agree with you both even though I didnt review the csp2+with the 5y3gt ,I have one ready to go in my other system . I'll have to use the beyer 770's to do that. as far as the 274vs 5u4 ,identical except for the bottle,has dual getter and all. reinstalling the 274 I found it doesnt flash like it did before, maybe a seating problem. Of course I'm writing this at 5:00 am EST, and just did that reinstall, power clean at this time in the morning. I'm trying to look for another word than organic that Steve used to describe this superzen,but can't. doesnt seem like you have to look for that magic hour either.This is one more thing I like about Decware ,he(Steve) takes the products he has and improves upon them . He could have came out with a new model,charged double and did very little or nothing to improve the sound. As I write this I'm sitting with my back turned to my system and Hear things never heard before at a very low volume, there's less strain listening, . I know you guys have the TORII, (the big room superzen)!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 14:22:14

I'd love to hear your impressions of the 5Y3GT in the CSP2+ one day.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/25/12 at 15:14:43

Skylab (Rob) over at HeadFi has posted extensive impressions of the CSP2+ with a 5Y3GT tube.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/25/12 at 15:28:29

Okay. But that is not what I want to read, I'd like to hear what j thinks and feels. :)

I have done some reading at headfi and here and it seems that most that love to use the 5U4G and 274B rectifiers in this preamp are using 6922 or 6DJ8 type input tubes. I've never been comfortable with the sound of these tube types in Decware components and don't keep any on hand, but I think my preference for the 5Y3 tube type may be because I am using 6N1P tubes in all three sockets of the CSP2+. One day I may pop in 6922s and play about again. . . but every time I have done so in the past, I put 6N1Ps back in. . . .

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/26/12 at 03:19:25

Perhaps J. would like to read what Rob (Skylab) wrote?

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/26/12 at 10:51:13

I'm going to do both,because we are not the final word in what things sound like ,however theres no room to contend with when listening to headphones and the beyer 770, which Steve uses are very good . better than I thought possible. so let me do both. Of course I'm going to have to use the zcd on the csp2+Taking the superzen out of the system. I'll do this today and do a serious comparison of the rectifiers.love this challenge!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/26/12 at 13:25:22

You know I didn't find much worth reading from Skylab. He seems to have popped them out fast for other rectifiers.

For me the other types just don't have the accurate naturalness in the CSP2+ and perhaps it's because I use 6N1P tubes.

Anyway, curious to hear your impressions J. Thanks.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/28/12 at 12:30:16

I listened to the csp2+ with the 5y3gt rectifier and it is veeeeeeery good . going to listen more today then change just rectifier to a 5u4 ,and then to 5ar4 . Dont know if I can install a 274b in this ?????? will have to use the 274 out of the superzen since it is brokein .

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/28/12 at 12:44:03

I'm glad you like the 5Y3 in the CSP2+ . . . as I've said over and over that's the only one that works for me as far as accurate tonality and soundstage.

Thanks for letting me know!

You should be able to use the 274B in the CSP2+.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/29/12 at 16:16:04

Question for lon what brand 5y3gt are you using ,as there are so many ?

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/29/12 at 16:49:48

I'm using RCA in both my CSP2+ and ZP3. I've tried quite a few. I find that Raytheon, Tungsol and GE are really good. Sylvania's I've tried are a bit too dry for my system. Of all the ones that I've tried this year (about nine tubes) these two RCAs have the magic for me. One of them (in the ZP3) the seller says came from '43 and it did come in a really old box and seems the old construction. The other I've had for years and years and is also of the old construction. That one has been my go to 5Y3GT ever since I've been using that tube type.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 11/30/12 at 22:03:24

Thanks lon I'm using the same. I did find out that the 5y3 may be the first of fullwave rectifiers from RCA, then replaced by the 5u4, or what Im trying right now 5r4, picked up one of these to try,also, GE.black plate. like Steve said ,your se84c+ might sound better than the super, and it does for now . yet this is a 2/ 2010 model white . more burning in to do to the superzen . I think of this amp,(se84c+) like the piece of wood that was hit by lightning and a great baseball bat was made from it . this amp was in my house fire , only to be cleaned up and let sit only to sound awesome ...........HAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! A testimony of a fire/waterproof amp!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 11/30/12 at 22:11:07

I remember that your amp survived the fire. Amazing!

I haven't tried any 5AR4 rectifiers since I had my Select. May try one in the CSP2+ and ZP3 one day but I'm so happy with the rectifiers I have in there I'm inclined to just keep them going.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/01/12 at 10:58:08

If you look in the black and red RCA recieving tube manual you'll see a 5r4 , 5ar4, 5u4...... all different tubes, I was just as suprised and puzzled . check it out

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/02/12 at 14:52:10

I'm sorry we are getting off the subject at hand . As I listen to the 1980 rendition of the goldberg variations (Glen Gould ) I see how good this superzen can be . theres that question on my mind of the tubes with large labels sounding superior to the small labeled ones . the 6p15ev tubes im talking about . I have the large labeled ones in my se84c+. I will try them in the superzen to comfirm this . anybody else feel these large labeled 6p15ev's are better,or is this a rumor. I feel they do . the last time I said anything of this there was no comment like they are the holy grail of output tubes for this amp.............

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 12/03/12 at 00:29:18

Some of the SV83's have 6P15P-EV printed on the other side of the tube. I think they are essentially the same tube. You can find some interesting 6P15P-EV variants, such as the gold grid versions seen on ebay. I have both SV83 and 6P15P-EV tubes. I have not done a comparison. Maybe I will when my SUPER ZEN comes in next week.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/03/12 at 12:31:11

AH Rivieraranch could'nt resist huh!!!!!!!LOL Like I said not really showing me anything super yet , however thats what I thought with the zcd for a long time .. then almost overnight , it changed to OMG!!!!! think the super is going to be more subtle. Yes I'm talking about that round label thats on the 6p15eb/ev, I bought 2 dozen on Ebay with the vendor showing the large label ,well I got 1 of the 24 with a large label . Neddless to say they were told about it !!!!!!!!Good price though !!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/13/12 at 14:02:12

I want to say further now with bias switch on the superzen towards the tubes. the stock tubes still installed after using different rectifier tubes . the voices or vocals are revealing every cyllabel , with ease . the cymbals are becoming a round piece of brass ,rather than just a random crash of brass. the upright bass has body and height ,and depth . multiple voices are understandable and have air and body. I'm getting a sense of the a large presentation ala the torii from this amp also. taking awhile . about fourty days into breakin. :) WOW

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 12/13/12 at 15:00:36

It always surprises me how these amps blossom after a certain amount of use. . . open up like a flower.

These amps just keep on giving!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/24/12 at 22:14:04

And Christmas keeps on coming . Merry Christmas to All!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 01/04/13 at 13:28:47

Just for the Holiday I went back to my white #018 select for the week of Christmas into new years , Happy New Year. Last night I switched back to the Superzen And again in my 9x13 roomwith the zcd200i and common sense audio 2.8's with 10"cast frame audio nirvana's. The dynamic was such that I thought I switched over to a much more powerful amp. Just amazing with both amps volume at around 9 O'clock. normal listening level here . The only thing I did do was run a dedicated circuit to my breaker box . Highly recommended.........So The superzen has come to be truly super compared to past zens, which I have 4 of in various vintages.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 01/07/13 at 11:53:33

Did everybody agree that the superzen runs cooler , and can we expect the older moded superzens to run cooler also , or is it the characteristic of the new transformer thats in the superzen??????

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/14/13 at 11:35:15

has anyone had the older Zens updated to a superzen and the results?!?!?!???

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 12/14/13 at 13:02:12

I can not speak from personl experience. I can only imagine the only negative results would be. . .to the wallet. ;)

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by DBC on 12/14/13 at 13:10:12

I can't comment on the upgrade of an older unit but I did replace my 10 year old Zen with the CKC. It was a big step up, way beyond my expections. My old unit was bone stock, no mods.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lonely Raven on 12/14/13 at 15:48:39

I had my 15 year old Zen updated. Steve said because of the layout and design of the original Zen amps (mine), that he couldn't update it to the Super Zen without completely gutting the amp and starting fresh...which wasn't going to happen.

At the Decfest, I put my modified amp up against the Super Zen, and the Super Zen came out on top. The bass was tighter and the presentation was cleaner.

Still my amp was at least 85% of what the Super Zen was, and now that I've re-broken it in, it's suddenly blossomed in the past week or so. Which is a good thing too, because I was getting upset with it for a bit, then suddenly it came back twice as nice!

The Super Zen I'd have to say, is worth every penny. I really enjoyed listening to it, and if I didn't have my heart set on one of the bigger amps, I'd probably have put an order in on one.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Lon on 12/14/13 at 16:09:28

Yes, I was seeking to have my Zen amp #27 upgraded to a Select years ago. It had been upgraded to a Rev. A, but not B and then the C and Select came out and I wanted this to become a Select. Steve said it made more sense to get a Select. I did. Leant my Rev.A to a friend who had it for more than a decade, and then bought a Taboo. He loves the look of the Taboo and some things about it but he swears he prefers the Rev. A. Shows what seasoning can do! And what a powerful juju even the most basic Zen amp has.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by Rivieraranch on 12/14/13 at 18:41:19

I was there at the Fest when we A/B'd Lonely Raven's old Zen against a new Super Zen. You could definitely hear the difference in resolution right away.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 12/15/13 at 12:23:04

Well that sets me straight ,I have a really nice white select , that I lent to my cousin while his Mini tori was being upgraded and was thinking about upgrading it to superzen status not superselect . may just leave it alone . The se84C+ I have that was in my fire is pretty beat up externally (chassis wise), however that sounds terrific also, so will keep everything as is . Thanks for the feedback.

Title: Re: New Super Zen vs. Zen Select
Post by jameskk on 09/09/14 at 20:03:12

of the massive AB comparisons I and my friend Jeff have done , theres just something about the small super Zen amps. youll have to spend a lot of money to better IT. But there is another !!!