OLDER DECWARE GEAR SUPPORT >> TORII MK III >> My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.

Message started by SteveC on 10/15/11 at 02:19:11

Title: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by SteveC on 10/15/11 at 02:19:11

I've had the SE for a year now.  Had the torii for a few months now.  I dusted off the the lonely SE84 and hooked it up and was surprised to remember how 'crisp' or 'sharp' plucked strings are on it.  When switching back to the Torii, everything is richer, but the SE beats it on those string plucks.  It's interesting now I like both for different reasons. (both are fantastic, extremely enjoyable, and improving with age).

Trying to comprehend the differences makes me come up with strange imagery and descriptions...

SE is like a crisp celery stalk.  Snap it.  Super crisp.   The Torii is like a chocolate bar.  Snap it.  Not as crisp.   But it's richer than celery in a different way.  :)

Now i'm torn between two love's again.  Guess I'll have to just accept more freqent amp swapping.

Anyone else with more than 1 decware amp experience this dilemma?
(Good dilemma to have.  Not really one at all.  Just fell back in love with my SE84C+).

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by Rivieraranch on 10/15/11 at 14:13:59

I have a TABOO and a MINI TORII. These are the only DECWARE speaker amps I have had.

While at DECFEST I succumbed to a ZEN SE84C+ demo that was lying around. I auditioned it at length and told them to wrap it up. It is to arrive next Tuesday.

I plan to incorporate it into the office and home systems and alternate between the amps I am now using,. I imagine I will come up with similar impressions as you.

Hopefully they will not "fight."

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by Lon on 10/15/11 at 14:43:33

With me it's all about the speakers and the room.  I have a Torii Mk III, a Torr Mk II, an Integrated SE34, and a set of SE34 monoblocks. The smaller single-ended amps definitely have a faster sound, a different way of dealing with transients. As you say, both are wonderful and in my case I'd be very happy with the smaller amps. . . if I didn't have a largish room for my main system and ERRs that like more power than they can deliver, I'd probably still be using the Select I had years ago. :) Wonderful amp in every way except. . .power handling.

The plus side is that the Torii lets me hear orchestral work and hard slamming stuff that are congested and not served well with the smaller amps. And the ERRs just come alive in a way with the Torii that they can't with the smaller amps. I'm very happy with what I have now, very happy, but I can definitely see being equally happy with a diferent set of Decware amp and speakers in a different room!

In my second system I can use the smaller amps (I seem to have settled on the SE34 Monoblocks) and get great sound:  small room, low volume levels, I'm using the HR-1s that seem to offer a more focused sound with smaller volumes than the ERRs.

The good thing is having so many options as we do, a large and a small Decware amp.

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by Pale Rider on 10/15/11 at 14:56:50

I think Lon is spot on about room size and speakers and the scale of the music. My SE84ZS runs in mono mode driving two ERRs, solely as the center channel of my HT. In this config, I can hear some differences in what I might call lushness or richness if I set the system to 2-channel and down mix the 2 into the center. But I rarely listen to 2-channel that way. Conversely, the speed or "crispness" of the SE is well-suited to the dialogue portion of center channel duty. Interestingly, on good 5.1 recordings, such as the AIX 3D reordings, I hear no discontinuity between the speakers, even in stage mode. The surround is seamless.

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by will on 10/15/11 at 17:52:08

I experienced something similar when I changed up to the Torii MkIII from my SE34I-2. Though I don't have both now, there are things about the SE that I always miss, and things about the Torii, I am glad to have gained. Like Lon I needed more power and and am happy with the Torii, but that sweet SE sound..............

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by Pale Rider on 10/15/11 at 18:52:42

Will, your post got me to thinking. When I ordered my SE84ZS, I had it built with the stereo/mono switch (i.e., no Y cable needed), so, it feeds from the center channel of the Ultra. But it has two sets of inputs, and it powers two separate ERRs. a set of L/R ICs from the third output of the Ultra to the SE, pull the ERRs out into the room and away from each other, and voilą, I have a very nice lower level SE listening setup.

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by will on 10/15/11 at 19:34:40

Nice Greg. The flexibility of your setup is really cool... I used to live on a mile long private road, and for 20 years I borrowed tractors to maintain it. Then I finally bought one and man, I never stopped learning about what great new things the tractor could do for me!

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by stone_of_tone on 02/02/12 at 17:03:14

SteveC, great thread.  I too feel/hear what you have described and RiverR, Lon, Will and PaleR mentioned also. It is a good dilemma to have SteveC! I have accepted more frequent Amp swapping too.

Without articulating again.....what you five have already said with aplomb, I too need the scale and power of the Torii 3, but also need the lit from within SE84CS in my closer listening setup. NO FIGHT, just two of the best Amps on the Planet and I'm adding a 3rd when the new .3 is listed................ .  

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by will on 02/02/12 at 17:25:39

Stone, the .3 has sparked my interests too! Unfortunately I don't have my old SE34I.2+ to compare, but I feel like that is a lot of my memory guide for tuning the torii. I loved the sweet, liquid transparency of that amp. But unless this memory has become imaginary, I have been successful at getting the magical SE liquid transparency with the Torii, but with added speed, depth and weight.

You are a lucky guy to have a dedicated room where amp rolling is easy. Sweet! I thought I was in deep with the level of tube rolling I have fallen into!!!

Title: Re: My Torii and SE84C+ are fighting.
Post by Morganc on 02/06/12 at 05:57:22

Hi Steve.   I miss the exact same quality from the Mini Torii!  The tons and timbre of stringed instruments was amazing and th best I have ever heard.  But in my large room, the dynamics and headroom just weren't there for all of the different music that I listen to!  But for acoustic, folk, and guitar the Mini Torii was amazing!  

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