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OLDER DECWARE GEAR SUPPORT >> TORII MK III >> Torii Mk III as monoblocks
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Message started by Valentin on 04/04/10 at 14:01:09

Title: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Valentin on 04/04/10 at 14:01:09

The Torii Mk III is running in my rig for two weeks now. I am very happy with this amp in every aspect I can think of, except one: the "headroom". I use the Analysis Audio "Epsilon" (86 db/8 Ohm) with the Torii Mk III. For regular listening levels, the match is perfect. But the amp is so transparent and has beautiful tone colors, liquidity and balance, I tend to turn up the volume; more and more. The Torii Mk III in this case runs out of "steam". As almost anything can be modified in tube gear world: Does anybody know, if the Torii Mk III can be wired as mono block, without loosing any of the tremendous qualities it offers in the stereo configuration?

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Lon on 04/04/10 at 14:47:05

Wow, Torii Mark III Monoblocks. For your speakers I can see the need.

Have you tried a preamp with some gain? I bet the CSP2 would give you a bit more oomph, if you only needed part of the power increase that monoblocking these beasts would provide.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Valentin on 04/04/10 at 16:22:32

Thank you Lon

The gain from my line sources are sufficient, to drive the amp into clipping. Any idea about monoblocking the fine "beasts"?

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Lon on 04/04/10 at 20:47:52

Yes my sources will clip the amp too, but with the CSP2 there's a different sound and weight at non-clipping levels that can be a good thing (or in some cases a bad, compressing, squashing sort of thing).

Although I have some basic concept of the circuit of several types of amps, I'm no electrical engineer and my soldering days are thirty or more years behind me. . . .

Still, I think Steve would say it could be done very easily, though I think that enough of the magic of the amp may dissipate (?) Anyway, Steve would have THE answer for you, you could call him.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Valentin on 04/05/10 at 08:33:28

Good morning to you Lon

I would give the CSP 2 a try, but with TWO Torii Mk III downstream ;-).

Will talk to Steve and post his oppinion about monoblocking the Torii Mk III here.

Stay tuned and thank you for your oppinion

Valentin

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Hotsauce on 04/05/10 at 12:47:33

If the speakers can be biwired you can use 2 amps without them being monoblocks.

John C.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Valentin on 04/06/10 at 11:22:07

John a & Lon, good morning

Yes, the Analysis Audio can be bi-amped. Steve does not suggest, wireing the Torii Mk III as monoblocks. Iinstead he suggests, to use two stereo amps. One for the basspanels and one for the mid-trebel ribbon.

Will get back to you later this week.

Valentkn

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Hotsauce on 04/06/10 at 12:52:46

You can test it out with one channel as bass, and one as treble useing only one speaker just to see if it will go loud enough.

I agree, use one amp for bass, and one for treble if you have 2 amps. This alows tone adjustment with volume control.

John C.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Lon on 04/06/10 at 13:31:20

Good news Valentin! If as John suggests you determine you can get enough output from this setup, you should have amazing sound when you have two seasoned Mark IIIs controlling those speakers!

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by JLM on 12/24/10 at 16:48:18

Hello all,

It's been years, but I'm back.

For those of you who might recall, I'm a short bald guy who never owned tube gear or anything from Decware. But I had a couple thousand posts on the old forum (but not nearly as many as Lon). I attended the first couple DecFest (at Randy's and then Steve's place).

Lots of new faces here. Not sure I like this visual environment (small box to text into and the moonshine streams make reading harder than it should be).

Didn't see a place to make introductions, so here goes: been into audio 40 years, my babies are brineacoustics FTA-2000 speakers that use single Fostex F200A drivers (90 dB/w/m, min. 8 ohm, 30 - 20,000 Hz) in mass loaded transmission lines. With my choosen speakers you can see why I struggled to get into Decware gear. So I'm running Channel Island Audio 40 watt solid state monoblocks. No vinyl (can't stand the surface noise). Instead I use an Onix CD-3 for a transport and a Scott Endler modded Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ, baffle step, zobel, and DAC. Scott also supplied my stepped attenuators (that plug directly into the monoblocks) and my signal cabling.

We built a new house 6 years ago that includes a listening room (man cave). Room proportions and nearfield setup ala Cardas. The 8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft room is physically and electrically isolated (cheap when you're building if you plan for it). I like deep/tight bass as much as anyone I've ever met associated with Decware. My preferences are for musicality/tone, imaging, detail, and dynamics. I listen mostly to jazz and classical at moderate (old fart) levels, but I need to rock hard occasionally too.

So I'm here again because I've got the itch to add tubes, possibly a pre-amp, and upgrade the monoblocks. Before we moved Ziggy was good enough to lend me his original Torii to try out on my speakers. Honestly I had some sort of problems with the amp (that had just come from Steve for some sort of work), but it sounded glorious when it did work (but the bass was a bit bloated). With double the power the Mk III should have plenty of power for the FTA-2000 (I commissioned the original pair and have since had Bud Purvine EnABL the drivers).

With all the enhancements from the original Torii this amp looks killer, just more than I wanted to spend. Note that the Fostex F200A is not your typical Fostex (or other high efficiency) driver (a 10 pound, 8 inch, $440 driver with AlNiCo magnets but no whizzer). It goes deep with a full and warm sound. Stated efficiency improves in the cabinets. So in my setup, the Mk III should be able to reach 104 dB at my chair, which is marginal. Note that the F200A thrives on lots of current heavy watts.

So whata all think? Could this be my legacy amp?

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Lon on 12/24/10 at 16:56:43

Welcome back amigo!

Well, I've had the Torii MKIII for a while and it has transformed my listening. They grab hold of speakers and just rule them. I was in real bliss. And then I re-introduced the CSP2 preamp and discovered that can take the music to a higher level. With all the gain possibilities you can really get the tonality right and a very solid image.

The CSP2 preamp MAY be just the ticket to transform your current setup. Certainly the Torii alone is an amazing machine to drive your speakers!

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Rivieraranch on 12/26/10 at 17:23:57

It strikes me that you should try the CSP2+ route first. The Torii MK III is dual mono. I don't believe the design was ever meant to be configured into mono blocks. The CSP2+ will cost one third of the cost of another TORII MK III. In addition the CSP2+ unit will provide you with a killer headphone amplifier as well as the primary benefit of taking the TORII MK III to a higher level.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by Rollin on 12/27/10 at 03:48:52

If you don't care for the background I found:
Go to My Center at the top,
Profile at the left,
Options,
and then under "Which Template would you like to use?" you can change the background.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by JLM on 12/27/10 at 22:18:21

Thanks Rollin, that's better.

Title: Re: Torii Mk III as monoblocks
Post by JLM on 12/27/10 at 23:25:27

Lon,

Yeah I need to call Steve this week to discuss pre-amp versus Torii Mk III. My original idea was to add a pre-amp and thought of the CSP-2 or a Mapletree 2A (a practical looking Canadian design that uses 2 x 12SN7GT with separate power supply):

http://hollowstate.netfirms.com

I don't want any tube warmth, my speakers are already full bodied enough. And adding a pre-amp would blow a hole in my self-imposed budget on top of the Torii.