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Message started by hoosier1 on 04/14/08 at 15:13:42

Title: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by hoosier1 on 04/14/08 at 15:13:42
Hello folks,

What are your recommendations for the rectifier tube for the CSP2 (old style CSP upgraded, if that makes any difference)?  

Thanks for any input.

Jim

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 06/01/08 at 14:58:52
I'm using an RCA version of the stock tube and LOVE it.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by WLP on 06/01/08 at 23:55:39
I've had a Bendix 6016 in my csp for about 2 years - absolutely no complaints.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by veryoldcat on 08/03/08 at 03:14:27
Perhaps you mean Bendix 6106?

Anyhow, I'm using a Bendix 6106 in the original CSP (not yet upgraded to a CSP2).

The Bendix is very good sounding and definitely more rugged than Mullard 5Y3's, but still less of a singing quality than the Mullards, which are still my favorite.

Apparently my original CSP is a little hard on the Mullards, though, as I've gone through three which only lasted an average of 4-6 months, but the Bendix seems more or less bullet proof (knock on wood).

Karl

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Eli Duttman on 08/03/08 at 20:14:02

Quote:
Apparently my original CSP is a little hard on the Mullards, though, as I've gone through three which only lasted an average of 4-6 months, but the Bendix seems more or less bullet proof (knock on wood).



There's no doubt about the physical toughness of Red Bank tubes.  The 6106 was intended for use in (SIC) Nike anti-aircraft missiles.  Being built better than the proverbial brick outhouse is, apparently, good for sound too.  :>))

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Rivieraranch on 09/03/08 at 12:32:50
My CSP2 arrived and I have set it up. It came with a Ruby 5U4 rectifier tube, so I just threw that back into the shipping box and placed a NOS Sylvania 5U4 rectifier in its place. I may pursue another 6106 for this position. I have one in my Taboo and it sounds fine.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 09/03/08 at 14:18:47
Wow, you are going to have a lot of listening fun with the CSP2~!

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Stone Deaf on 01/29/09 at 05:23:04
Mazda 5Y3GB I love this tube, have it in everything including my guitar amp.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by CRESCENDOPOWER on 04/03/09 at 06:34:20
For me it's a Mullard 5y3G. I use the CSP 2 strictly for headphone listening with the HD 600s and I have heard nothing better.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Stone Deaf on 04/03/09 at 17:22:36
I am trying to find some Mullard GZ34, I only own one and it lives in my guitar amp most of the time.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Stone Deaf on 04/21/09 at 20:49:21
OK I found a Mullard GZ34 used tested as new for the low, low price of $89. It is definitely different from the International Servicemaster GZ34 made by Matsushima Japan using the old Mullard tool I die. The Mullard is shorter and has less glass at the top, it also doesn't glow as bright as the Jap copy. Both sound good even when I swap them from amp to preamp and back again and they sound better than the Mazdas IMO and I love the Mazda. Now I need to find one more for the phono stage.  

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/04/09 at 13:20:50
What are the differences generally between the 5Y3 and the 5U4 in this unit?

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by jdm on 08/09/10 at 00:48:33
I know it's been a long time since the last post, but I thought this was a good place to post some of my recent observations on various rectifiers in my CSP2.

My test environment consisted of:
CSP2 (#063), Amperex 6922 PQ Orange Label input/driver tubes
Tripp Lite isolation transformer, DHC1 power chord
ZDAC-1 (#023), DH Labs D75 coax cable, DSRII 0.5m IC
Squeezebox receiver, Apple Lossless files
Beyer DT880 headphones, Silver Dragon dual entry cable.

Below are the rectifier tubes, and my observations.

5Y3G Sylvania - articulate, clean, open, airy; bass: slightly lean, detailed, not impatctful; mids: detailed, good separation, light (vs. dark); treble: cymbals muted.

5Y3g Tung Sol - dark, musical; bass: deeper, more impactful, deep rumble; mids: richer, darker; treble: cymbals sparkle.

5Y3GT Tung Sol - slightly dark, spacial; bass: deep, impactful; mids: rich, dark, detailed; treble: detailed.

5Y3GT GE 5 Star 6087 - dull, no sparkle, not revealing.

5Y3GT RCA - very slightly dark, musical; bass: deep, impactul; mids: lean vocals, otherwise rich; treble: unremarkable.

5Y3GT Tung Sol JAN VT197A - clean, articulate, revealing, dynamic, wide soundstage; bass: deep, impactful; mids: natural vocals, rich; treble: clean, sparkly.

5Y3WGT GE USN 6087 - dull, no sparkle, not revealing; mids: prominent vocals.

5U4G Mullard - soft, smooth, compact soundstage; bass: prominent, boomy, poorly defined.

5U4GB GE - dark, musical; bass: deep, impactul; mids: dull vocals; treble: recessed, weak.

5U4WGB Sylvania 5931 - dark, not revealing, musical, congested soundstage; bass: unremarkable; mids: strong vocals; treble: recessed, weak.

5AR4 Amperex - dark, bass heavy, clean, musical; bass: deep, prominent, punchy; mids: dark; treble: recessed, weak.

274B Sophia - fair to slightly dulled detail, immense three dimensional soundstage; bass: deep impactful; mids: natural, very slightly dull; treble: clean but no sparkle.

The differences between the Tung Sol 5Y3G(T) tubes were very slight.

The comparison was just that, a comparison and not a detailed analysis.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Rivieraranch on 08/09/10 at 03:57:03
It appears that Tung Sol leads the 5Y3 pack. Now you need to try a Tung Sol 5U4G. I have one in my TABOO at my office. I have an adapter and I am going to try some 5Z3's in mine.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by jdm on 08/09/10 at 04:50:49
I may have to try a Tung Sol 5U4.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Until I did this comparison this weekend, I didn't realize how close the Tung Sols grouped to the ideal.

In the Taboo, however, when coupled with a CSP2 and the MG944 speakers, it needed the strong bottom end of the 5AR4 to keep from sounding bass anemic and harsh.  I use another Tung Sol 5Y3GT/VT-197A in the CSP2 feeding the Taboo (same Amperex 6922s as the other CSP2), and Amperex or Mullard 5AR4 with RCA 12AT7 blackplate input.  This combination makes the MG944s sound rich, dynamic and quick.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Rivieraranch on 08/10/10 at 03:01:04
I had a TABOO/CSP2/MG944 combination at home for a while and I had no problems with the bass. I used Sylvania 5U4GB rectifiers in both units.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Hondo on 11/10/10 at 15:55:13
I would like to thank jdm for his excellent information on CSP2 rectifier tubes.  I found the 5Y3GT Tung Sol JAN VT197A to be as described.  I listen primarily to classical music and liked its treble.  I puchased spare NOS and thought that it would be my standard tube.

I then tried a Sylvania 5Y3GT JAN VT197A. I prefer the treble response of the Sylvania.  So much, that I have purchased a lifetime supply+ of NOS Sylvanias.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by jdm on 11/21/10 at 03:53:21
For a horse of a different color, you might try the very affordable 5R4GY or 5R4GYB.  I provides more punch than the 5Y3GT, but loses some of the airiness.  It has the punch and bass of the 5AR4 but more balanced.  Depending on your other tubes and headphones, they could be a viable option.  

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by drumsgreg on 12/07/10 at 22:35:10
I use in both the CSP2 and the Taboo a Bendix 6106. It's sounds the best to me with my horns and cube .

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Damien on 09/16/11 at 20:17:09
I have a Taboo and a CSP2+. I currently have the two stock 5U4G tubes that came with the units and I have a pair of Silvertone 5Y3GT from the mid 1950's. the combination I prefer, with these tubes, is the 5U4G in the CSP2+ and a 5Y3GT in the Taboo.

In the CSP2+ I thought the 5Y3 had too much mids/high range emphasis. I didn't have a sub at the time. Just today I connected a sub to the mono port on my CSP2+ so I may have to revisit the 5Y3 in the preamp

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 10/16/11 at 11:15:06
Has anyone compared the Bendix 6106 vs a Tung Sol 5Y3G series?

I am looking for a "balanced" tube able to handle all types of music, e.g. Classical, modern Pop and Jazz. Anything except heavy metal. :)

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by kingpin on 01/30/12 at 15:32:20
I swapped in a Bendix 6106 to compare to the Amperex/Mullard GZ34 and it made a very nice improvement.  I figured the GZ34 would likely be the best, but there's a lot better treble and still very strong bass with the 6106.  

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 01/31/12 at 13:20:39
Dear Kingpin,

Thanks for sharing that bit of info.

I did managed to get hold of the Bendix 6106 and Tung Sol 5Y3GT at the same time.

I am still burning in and enjoying the use of the Bendix 6106 at the moment. Yes, the bass is pretty good.

To make a fair comparison, I have decided to let both rectifiers be burned-in and utilised for at least 200hrs of playtime on the CSP2+.

I shall report back on my findings as soon as I hit the 200hrs mark for both rectifiers.

Regards,

Soth

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by s1 on 05/10/12 at 05:26:13
Dear Lord Soth,

Any findings and which of the two did you prefer ?

Thank you.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 05/11/12 at 14:52:29
Dear S1,

My take is that you won't regret using either one in your amp. Both are very good sonically.

The short answer is that I had to give up with this experiment due to the great number of variables involved.

After I found the design notes from Steve, https://www.decware.com/paper56.htm

I realised that it is not so easy to provide an objective review of rectifiers in the CSP2+.
Both the Bendix 6106 and Tung Sol 5Y3GT belong to the same 5Y3 family but the Bendix is indirectly heated and also causes a greater voltage drop.

Now, rolling the front tube already has a dramatic effect on the sound of the CSP2+.
So any scientific review would mean that I have to

1. Hold the input tube steady and change the rectifiers
We are basically comparing the sonics of the same input tube based on running it at different voltages.

Not everyone runs the same input tube so any input I provide would not be objective.

2. Change the Input tube and hold the rectifiers steady
The idea here is that I would have to try to isolate the differences in sonics due to the use of different input tubes vs the sonics caused by the use of the rectifiers.

BTW, if anyone out there actually made it so far in this post of mine  ;D, my conclusion is that both rectifiers are very good sonically!

I bought the Tung Sol 5Y3GT based on an earlier review made in this forum. That was before I found Steve's design notes mentioned above BTW.

I ended up using my Bendix 6106 in another tube amp because it worked very well there.

As for the Tung Sol 5Y3GT, it seemed to work very well sonically with whatever genre of music and input tubes I threw at it in the CSP2+!
So I decided to just leave it there.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 05/11/12 at 15:05:01
Very good observations Lord.

I am fixated on the use of 6N1P tubes in the CSP2 and the amps. I really love that tube and what it does with my music collection. I've used RCA 5Y3GT and 5U4GB rectifiers in the CSP2 and have come to truly appreciate the 5Y3GT, it seems to drive the 6N1P more accurately and with better dynamic contrast. It's a bit crisper, which is not necessarily a plus, but it provides a nice balance of detail and tonality.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by s1 on 05/11/12 at 17:46:36
Again many thanks Lord Soth,  for your invaluable inputs which I will most certainly follow. :)

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by jameskk on 06/01/12 at 11:21:12
I'd like to make one comment on this . do all the tube rolling you want . then go back to the tubes Steve put in the amp/preamp. you'll probably find you spent alot of money on backup tubes.........not nessessarily better tubes..............

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 06/01/12 at 12:16:06
That's a good point. I run my CSP2 with all stock tubes, except for the rectifier (stock type, but RCA NOS) and that my 6N1P tubes are cryo'd. And my Torii with all stock tube types, with the exception that the input tubes are cryo'd, and the rectifiers are RCA NOS.

I've certainly done a LOT of tube-rolling, but have held steady with these for some time.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 06/02/12 at 17:43:30
I agree that Decware amps are built such that they sound very good even with stock tubes.

Yes, tube rolling means that one will end up with "backups" and "backups of backups" and so on....

But part of the fun (at least for me) of owning a tube amp is watching the little bulbs get tube-conditioned and then they blossom sonically after burn-in. To me, it is analogous to watching your little plants grow up and mature. It is also no different from parents watching their little "ones" grow up.

Even though I have spent enough $$$ to have had bought a couple of Decware amps instead, I don't regret it at all.
Maybe if my other half found out about the actual cost of owning a tube amp, I might actually regret it though! LOL

Each tube has different sonic characteristics. Tube-rolling allows one to get really familiar with the different pros and cons of each type of tube. A tube-roller will be able to tweak their audio system to get what they prefer should they ever get a new amp or change any part of their audio chain.

It's just plain FUN. As per the Mastercard commercials, the experience that comes from tube rolling is priceless. :)

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by setamp on 06/29/12 at 12:31:17
If anyone is looking for the 596 rectifier tube, there is a group buy forming on head-fi for the tube and another for the adapter.  Info can be found on the woo thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/22020#post_8492858

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 10/18/12 at 18:42:34
In case anyone is interested, I've recently rolled in one of those Black Plates 1950s RCA 5R4GY Rectifier with brown base and square getters.



This rectifier tube is readily available for reasonable prices <US$40 from major online tube retailers or around US$20 if you are lucky on e-bay.



1. Inner Resolution

Compared with the Tung Sol 5Y3GT, the extreme inner resolution of the RCA 5R4GY blows the 5Y3GT away.

I can hear the faintest whispers easily in the recording studio or venue for live recordings.

For e.g., the "one, two, three" near the beginning of Brad Paisley's "This is country music" is more distinctive.

It was already present when using a 5Y3GT but I do not have to strain at all to hear the faintest whispers.

BTW, I replaced the Lorenz PCC88 input tube with an Amperex Pinched Waist 6922 for the improvement in midrange and top-end extension.

However, I lost that magical inner resolution of the Lorenz PCC88.

With the 5R4GY, I have gained back the magical extreme inner resolution of the Lorenz PCC88.

If you are the type of audiophile who wants to hear everything in a recording, e.g. the girlish giggling from a member of the audience in one of Brandi Carlile's live recordings, the 5R4GY is highly recommended.



2. Vertical Dimension to Soundstage

Another plus point is that it adds a spatial vertical dimension to recordings.

The CSP2+ already excels in left-right channel separation.

However, when using the 5Y3 family of valves which it was originally designed for, the vertical dimension is not pronounced enough for me.

I vaguely recall Skylab (from Head-Fi) having mentioned this weakness of the CSP2+ when he reviewed it.

After I added the 5R4GY, when I listened to Hotel California by the Eagles, somewhere in the beginning of the track, the sonic "swish"/ "swhosh" sound effect not only appears on the left ( as when using the 5Y3) but now seems to move in a spiral (i.e. with distinctive High-low height) fashion on the left side.

The original vertical sonic dimension weakness appears to have been "fixed" through the use of the 5R4GY.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by sberger on 10/18/12 at 22:15:50
Interesting. I was using a Phillips 5R4GYS that I got from Upscale Audio a while back that I really enjoyed, then picked up a 1952 RCA 5Y3GT(a pair, actually) which I'm now using. I find that it provides just a bit more in the way of soundstage depth and separation. Really fantastic tube, and personally I like using a tube that the pre was voiced with. That said, I have pretty good luck with just about all recs I've used in the CSP2.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 10/19/12 at 14:32:35
Hi sberger,

I also saw the upscale audio advertisement for the Philips 5R4GYS.

When they made the statement "The best buy and best made 5AR4/5U4G/GZ33/GZ37 that we have or ever had", I knew that I had to try it for myself.

I'm burning in the Philips 5R4GYS now. Will post comparisons vs my other RCA 5R4GY very soon.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by sberger on 10/19/12 at 15:12:39
Great. Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Like you I've accumulated a fair amount of rectifiers in searching for the best sound overall, and so when I read a rave from Kevin at Upscale it doesn't take too much convincing for me to jump on it. One of the real good guys in the business who knows what he's talking about. And he's right about the Phillips. Great tube. Just liking the 52 5Y3 a little more in my system.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/19/12 at 15:38:18
Sam as I've mentioned elsewhere probably half a dozen times I own three RCA 5Y3GT tubes on hand and one of them, which I got a long time ago, is just amazing in sound, it's from the 'fifties I think, and although I also have the same tube type in examples from Sylvania and GE, that one tube is just the cat's meow in my CSP2 and CSP2+. Wouldn't surprise me if it's a very similar tube to the RCA you're using. I hope that one I have on hand or one I can find sounds as good in my upcoming ZP3.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by marky on 10/19/12 at 18:01:57
I`ve been using the Ge 5u4 (`40`s coke bottle, used ) in the ZP3..very nice. Popped in a Phillips Jan 5y3gtwa..ok...more burn in later. Then Lord S`s RCA 5R4GY post. Curious, doesn`t show on the equivalents charts I`ve found, but his link was informative. Found one from reliable dealer I use on eb, £27-$40 . Should be here tomorrow  :) . So ty LS. ...Syd

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by sberger on 10/19/12 at 21:25:50
Lon here are the 5Y3's I'm speaking of. Look like yours?

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/19/12 at 21:43:44
Thanks Sam. Well, mine looks different at the base. no JAN description, but the "works" looks similar, though not identical.  

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by tybee on 10/21/12 at 04:10:35
I recently recived a RCA 5y3 similar to Sam's as well an older Tung Sol.  Lon, I suspect the warmth that most RCA tubes provide you what you seek, while I suspect Sam likes the more neutral sound that Tung Sols provide?

I think I am in between.  Sam and I share the same speakers that can offer the best detail that I have experienced, but one must be careful what you insert with these speakers at the expense of the best analogue sound.  My speakers provide a 3D sound in my acoustically treated room much like I hope Lon experiences with his speakers.  Visitors to my listening room are looking for the rear speakers that do not exist; I have only stereo.  My speakers often surround the listener with sound that seems to be coming from the rear wall, outside the side walls  with a deep, tall front soundstage.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Longbowbbs on 10/21/12 at 04:19:17
I made two changes to stock for the CSP2+. I swapped out the GE 5R4GY that was its shipped Rec and put in a JAN Sylvania 5U4G. Then I swapped the Driver 6N1P for a Genelex Golden Lion 6922. I left the L/R 6N1P's in place. Definite increase in dynamics. Better bass, the HD650's just sing....I have been listening to Al Di Meola for a couple of hours and the speed and clarity of attack on the guitar strings is amazing.

Best headphone experience I have ever had... ;D

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/21/12 at 13:51:34
tybee, the one RCA 5Y3GT that has the magic for me it's not the warmth per se but I think the imaging and sound stage accuracy that endears me to it in the CSP2+. It makes every 5U4G tube sound as if it enlarges and stretches the sound in ways that appear unnatural in comparison. And although other RCA and other brand of 5Y3GT I have on hand can match (or exceed) the warmth, they just don't have that "spot on" sound.

But every circuit is different, and the way a tube interacts with a given input tube, and so many factors! Looking forward to this process with the ZP3, mine is on the bench very soon, got an inquiry from Steve as to whether I wanted a white top plate, or what will soon be the standard, a textured black one like those on the new Super Zen; I went with the white to match my Torii Mk II and CSP2+. . . .

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by tybee on 10/21/12 at 19:55:56
Lon,

I inserted the RCA 5Y3 in my CSP2 and have been listening all morning with a 45 SET amp and I am finding your observations regarding imaging and soundstage accuracy.  I guess it's time to give the RCA 5Y3 an extended listen.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/21/12 at 20:37:22
tybee, it's fascinating to have so many options isn't it? I love the "ah ha" moments when you find the sound that works.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by setamp on 10/23/12 at 13:38:00
I tried a Syl 5y3g in both my CSP+ and Taboo last night.  It worked better in the Taboo than the preamp but it doesn't come close to the UE596 in my setup.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/23/12 at 13:59:22
That's the first I've heard of a UE596 in these machines!

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by setamp on 10/23/12 at 20:01:04
Electrically, it is a 5U4G I understand.  It was ruggedized for aircraft use.  It does require an adapter to wire in the pins at the top of the tube.  There is a good discussion of this tube on the head-fi site in the Woo Appreciation thread.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 10/23/12 at 20:19:04
Cool, thanks.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 11/10/12 at 14:36:14
I carried out a rectifier shootout on my CSP2+.

All the following rectifier tubes were burned in for >24 hrs each

1. RCA – JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)
2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)
3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s)

and compared against my default rectifier
4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s).

My CSP2+ uses the following default tubes

2x Siemens E188CC Grey Shields for the L/R position
1x Amperex *USA Pinched Waist "D" Getter for the input position.

My Audio Chain is as follows :-

Oppo BDP 95 > Soundsilver Symmetry RCA Cables > CSP2+ > Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms

This audio shootout is based on headphone usage so YMMV if you are using your CSP2+ as a preamp.

1. RCA - JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)
This contributes to the largest soundstage of all the rectifiers.
The spatial height dimension is most pronounced here.

Mids are neutral, so if you like a neutral sound and use your CSP2 as a preamp, this might be your ticket.

Bass is not boomy but is impactful and tight.
Drums have elastic quality.

Instrument separation is excellent (the best of this lot) and very distinct.

Nice Airy sound to Cello strings.

2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)
This is the rectifier tube according to Kevin Deal of Upscale audio.

Compared with the neutral RCA tube above, the mids now have a very wonderful dose of tube warmth added to them.
The mids are so organic that many users are likely to get audio orgasms from using this rectifier.
This is one of those tubes for female vocals which help convey emotion and draw the listener into the music.
I can thus understand why so many positive reviews have been posted on Kevin Deal's website.

Instrumental strings have a very nice airy reverberation.

Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.

Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.

3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s) Made in UK
Short history lesson here.
There are 2 Great ones in the tube rectifier world.
(a) WE 274B
(b) GEC/Marconi U52

The Brimar 5R4GY has earned (not just from me) itself a rather legendary reputation where tube rectifiers are concerned.
Yes, this is one of those tubes which can be mentioned in the same breath as the above 2.
(and YES, in case you are wondering, the Mullard GZ34s are over-rated and over priced....but that is another story ;)

Ok. History lesson over.

Back to this tube.

If you thought the mids of the Philips 5R4GYS were really organic and wonderful in a tube warmth kind of way, then the mids from the Brimar tube are really to die for.
This is where the Brimar rectifier earns its reputation for being WE 274b "like".

Bass sounds from this tube is the most "3D" like with Depth, Width and Height. Drums are not just a simple "thumph" but have tone as well!

The tonality (especially string instruments) from this tube is the most realistic sounding.

Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.

Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.


4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s)
The CSP2+ was designed to use 5Y3 rectifiers.

No surprises that in my system, the already highly rated Tung Sol sounds just as good as the Brimar rectifier in almost every department.

The Tung Sol rectifier does lose out to the RCA rectifier in terms of soundstage though, especially in the relative lack of height.

Ermm, what I'm trying to say is that before you rush out to grab that Brimar 5R4GY rectifier for your CSP2, you can get most of the sonics from using a humble Tung Sol 5Y3 instead.

However, the mids of the the Brimar are still the best organic sounding of all the rectifiers I tested.

Epilogue a.k.a Rectifier Shootout #2
I have another SE EL34 based tube amp for my speaker setup which is designed around the 5U4 rectifier.

After the rectifier shoot-out in the CSP2+, I carried out a similar one for my speaker amp.

For that other shootout, the Brimar rectifier totally obliterated the competition.
Every other member in my family literally asked me what I did to my audio system to make it sound so organic and rich and inject a hypnotic presence to the sound.

The mids from the Philips 5R4GY still sounded warm and organic.
This is consistent with the tons of accolades from Kevin Deal's customers who have used the Philips 5R4 on external speaker amps.

However, the Brimar takes the mids to a whole different higher level, into the Stratosphere of the legendary WE 274B and GEC U52 but without the cost!

So if you have a speaker amp which uses the 5U4, the Brimar 5R4GY is highly recommended. The next best thing would probably be a Philips 5R4GY from Kevin Deal.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 11/10/12 at 15:06:48
Interesting shootout and results, thanks for the detailed information.

Very soon (it's on the bench!) I can start trying out 5Y3GT tubes in my ZP3. I don't really like tube-rolling per se (gets in the way of listening to and connecting to the music for me) so I won't say I'm looking forward to it, but I'm looking forward to finding a great rectifier for the ZP3.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Longbowbbs on 12/15/12 at 00:57:17
I would like to post some pics of my new USAF-596 Rectifier on the CSP2+...How do I post pics and is there a size limit on the photo?

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 12/15/12 at 04:49:01
Donnie is the uncredited instructor and expert on this, and here is his latest tutorial from the Superzen thread:

I need to write a standard process for attaching photos.

The best way is to post them at a photo sharing site like Photobucket or Flicker.
Then push the 3rd little button from the top left that looks like a little picture, when you hover over the button it says Insert Image. Push the button and [img][/img] comes up.
Put the URL of your picture between the ] and [
Now when you preview your post, the photo should show up.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Don W on 12/15/12 at 05:29:34
I think if you attach an image file to the message when you post it, the image gets displayed. Use the Browse button to select the file.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Longbowbbs on 12/15/12 at 13:19:46
Is there an image size limit?

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Donnie on 12/15/12 at 13:41:35
There isn't a limit if you link the photo in from a sharing site like Flicker.
I'll try to take some time today and figure out a way to make a document to show how to link photos.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Longbowbbs on 12/15/12 at 15:09:34
The Mighty USAF-596 Rectifier

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by setamp on 12/18/12 at 20:20:19
USAF- 596  Agree !!!!!

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Greg12 on 04/01/13 at 22:26:01
I like this thread, keep going over it from time to time.  An FYI for anyone interested in the Phillips 5R4GYS rectifier.  I have 2 I got from upscaleaudio.com for $40 +shipping.   I went back to the site today for a 3rd, (1 for my csp2 and 2 for my Torii MK lll that is currently "on the bench", anyways, the tubes are now going for $55 + shipping.  Must have happened recently and I had just ordered the 2nd one a month or so ago.   The description of the tube states that they figured it'd go eventually to $100.  Looks like it might someday.  Makes it tougher for me to pull the trigger another.  Might put the 2 I have in the torii and get one of the RCA's Lon mentions he likes for the csp2.

Greg

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lord Soth on 04/02/13 at 02:51:50
Hi Greg!

Yes, the Philips 5R4GYS are mil spec tubes which work very well in place of the usual 5U4G or GZ34.
From my own experience and the reviews found on upscale audio, this ranks as one of the greatest audio discoveries alongside the use of PCC88s in place of 6DJ8 tubes.

Considering how insanely $$$$ the GZ34 have be become, the 5R4GYS are really value for $$$.

I've also bought a couple of Philips and Brimar 5R4G rectifiers for my great great grandchildren to use and enjoy ! ;)

BTW, for those technically inclined, the Max Input Capacitor listed in the data sheets is 4uF.
My personal research in this area has lead me to conclude that the cap rating is grossly understated.
The 5R4GY class of rectifier can work safely up to around 47uF cap.
So it is safe to use this rectifier based on empirical evidence and experimentation.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Rivieraranch on 04/02/13 at 03:14:41
You listen to Lord South, boy! I looked up those tubes and they are nice coke bottle brown based cuties that will probably go fast. They probably will be around $100 some day.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Greg12 on 04/03/13 at 18:13:23
Just ordered my 3rd and hopefully last one.  $72 shipped..ouch.  But, if rectifiers can potentially last what, 10 or more years then what the heck.
Greg

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by mark58 on 02/12/15 at 14:22:42
I figured I'd update this thread.  The Phillips 5R4gy tubes at Upscale Audio are now $95 each.

I am starting a poll to find out what rectifiers folks are using in their ZP3, Amp or CSP.  I want to hear all suggestions but really am interested in more reasonably priced American versions...especially of the a fore mentioned 5R4GY Rectifier.  Mark.

PS...I currently am running Ken Rad WW II 5U4Gs in the Torii, 50's RCA 5U4Gs in the Zen Signature Monoblocks, new production Valve Art 274B in the CSP3, and a 50's RCA 5Y3G in the ZP3.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 02/12/15 at 14:33:29
Torii Mk III (newest) RCA 5V4G ('fifties, I think)

Torii Mk III (oldest) cryo'd Valve Arts 274B

Tori Mk III cryo'd Valve Arts 274B

All three CSP2+ in three systems: RCA 5Y3GT, one 'forties, two 'fifties. These just are the most accurate rectifiers for this machine, when using tapes I recorded of bands I was in in my former garage apartment, reference tapes that are useful because I was there, with these musicians, in this space.

ZP3: GE 5Y3GT, 'fifties. Again, this tube type seems the most accurate to me in the ZP3.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by mark58 on 02/12/15 at 14:49:42
I wish we were all able to post our Gear and the tubes and tweaks employed in our profile without having it appear as a signature on every post.  That way we could all have this useful info at our finger tips.  We could also leave commentary on our findings and favorite tubes and modify our findings as they change, alleviating the need to sift through multiple old posts for answers...just a thought. I often find it difficult to pull the trigger on more expensive tubes without knowing how they'll perform in my specific gear. Or at least knowing the opinions/impressions of those who've used the tubes in my gear. Mark

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by mark58 on 02/12/15 at 14:53:56
Lon,  the suffix...GT means the smaller straight bottle versions...correct?  Mark.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Lon on 02/12/15 at 15:05:03
Yes.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by marky on 02/12/15 at 16:44:22
Yes those Philips have shot up. I grabbed a pair when they seemed to appear all at once on e-bay. I`m sure one of the ads said this is a $100 tube, grab yourself a bargain now. I only have one now after a Rachael gave me a belt when I was trying to figure out an EL34 failure.
Just needed a repacement tube thats all.

I have been using the brown base RCA 5R4GY x2 `D`bottom getters in both CSP2+ and ZP3 for some months.

However I`m revisiting a Mullard GZ34 ( I`m sure I didn`t pay the big price they can fetch on it ) white shield...and last night the Philips.

So
CSP2+ Philips 5R4GYS
ZP3 Mullard GZ34

I`m starting to think about digging my 5y3GT out again and switching out the Philips.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by will on 02/12/15 at 19:19:09
I never could "get" the Phillips 5R4GYS. It is always impressive when I try it, but the appearance of power and density ends up overwhelming inner detail for me in my Torii and in my CSP3. Since I went to an Amperex green globe 6922 (looks and sounds just like the early 60s 7308) in front of the CSP3, and some Phillips E188CCs in the power positions, my fave is a dirt cheap GE 5R4GY with double D getters. It is probably an RCA...just like some RCAs I have except these have a single getter.

I think it just depends what you put with what. I am also using Mazda 5V4G/GZ32s in the Torii, with their nice tonal density and slight warmth, and the big and slightly warm Genelex KT66, and as inputs, the unusual warmth, articulation, and fine detail of some very nice Amperex/Miniwatt PCC88s...then the 7308 types in the CSP3, their amazing extension, articulation, inner detail and tonal density....with all that, the very open and clean sounding GE is just awesome.

Unlike the stock CSP3 tubes, this tube set lets through all the micro detail, dynamics, pace etc my Tranquility DAC and Torii MKIV can offer, which is a big deal for me.

Title: Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Post by Acetone on 02/27/15 at 17:52:06
ZP3 - RCA  50's  5U4GB straight tall bottle  and  RCA 50's  5Y3GT  straight short bottle....still undecided which I'll keep installed for the long run.
Using the 5R4GYS Phillips (upscale) in the SuperZen SE84CKC.

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