Forums - Print Page

Forums
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl
SUPPORT FORUMS FOR DECWARE SPEAKER PLANS >> Housewrecker Support Forum >> Rockwood drivers
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1128695751

Message started by Kurtly on 10/07/05 at 14:35:51

Title: Rockwood drivers
Post by Kurtly on 10/07/05 at 14:35:51

Has anyone used Rockwood 2215's in a Housewrecker?

I recently built a pair and loaded them with 2X Etone 801's each. While nice and deep, especially compared to the same drivers in a front loaded box, they're not very loud (with 450 watts per box)

If I went to a set of cheapie car 15's would I get more volume?

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/07/05 at 15:34:46

what is the sensitivity of your drivers?

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Kurtly on 10/07/05 at 23:05:23

I have no idea, I pulled them out of some early 80's full range bins. A fairly thorough google search turned up little information on them. They're a 250watt 15, even when being driven hard the cone barely appears to move so I guess they don't really move much air.

If the cheapo drivers are no good then I'll go with P.Audio neo15lf or Eminence Kappa Pro 15lf (both close to 100db from memory)

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/08/05 at 15:24:41

i would try the drivers you already have. they might work very well?

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by J_Rock on 10/08/05 at 19:50:54

build it and throw em in, if they work they work, if they don't then you can buy those others.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Kurtly on 10/09/05 at 13:51:20

Sorry I must have been unclear in my original post...

I have built two housewreckers, they have etone 801's in them now. They sound good, and very deep, but not as loud as I had hoped they would.

Will cheap long exceursion drivers be louder than better quality short excursion ones?

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/09/05 at 15:14:07

higher sensitivity drivers are louder than lower sensitivity drivers -on the same amp.

or

a bigger amp.

are long excursion drivers louder than short excusion drivers?
im not sure?? but i bet dirt dawg gexter j rock or one of dem others knows ;D

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by J_Rock on 10/09/05 at 20:52:04

sensitivity will be a large impact on how loud you sub will go. another is how much power you are giving them. I am gonna assume that you are not changeing amps. therefore sensitivity = loudness, higher better. watch the ratings though spl @ 1w/1m is much better than the same rating at 2.83 volts / 1m.

As far as excursion goes, I am still learning, but it seems higher = better impact in the sub.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by jj420 on 10/13/05 at 23:13:13

higher excursion will make the system deeper, as raising the Xmax usually lowers the Fs of the driver. The trade off (usually) is that higher Xmax drivers lose a lot of linearity in thier cone movement under high wattage conditions, causing "muddy" bass that is not as accurate. Adire advertises new XBL2 technology that promises higher linearity at higher excursions.

Anywyas, the HWK behaves so differently than most sixth order bandpass boxes that this may not mean a thing. The airspring, combined with the high cone control of the BP enclosures would likely render this moot. A higher excursion moves more air, as the entire output of this system is via ports, i would think that, while almost certainly more resounding, there would be a great deal of port noise. In short smaller Xmax drivers are more forgiving of ports, with a high excursion driver you will need very large flares to prevent audible hiss.

I would try it, but i am not in a position to do so just yet, so its up to you... enquiring minds want to know!

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by DirtDawg on 10/14/05 at 00:45:50

J_Rock wrote on 10/09/05 at 20:52:04:

watch the ratings though spl @ 1w/1m is much better than the same rating at 2.83 volts / 1m.

Sorry J_ROCK,

Gotta correct ya here. Do the math. Ohm's law.
2.83V across an 8 ohm load is 1W
2V across 4 ohm load is 1W
1.414V (look familiar?) across 2 ohm load is 1W

So if you're talking about 8 ohm drivers those 2 specs are the same.

If it's a spec using 2.83V across a 4 ohm driver, just subtract 3dB. It's really not a BS spec.

2.83V across 4 ohms is 2W

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/14/05 at 16:01:32

DirtDawg wrote on 10/14/05 at 00:45:50:

i wonder if i had paid attention at school if i would have better sounding subs? i love it when people know what theyre talking about.me, i just cut the wood and screw it together, and throw in a driver-pray for good results.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by DirtDawg on 10/14/05 at 18:48:34

60ndown wrote on 10/14/05 at 16:01:32:

If that approach works for you, try to add tithing to the overall plan. That should help, too. ;)

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/14/05 at 19:16:24

DirtDawg wrote on 10/14/05 at 18:48:34:

If that approach works for you, try to add tithing to the overall plan. That should help, too. ;)

wtf is tithing??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by boydon_lepasci on 10/14/05 at 23:09:08

That would be a reference to your "...pray for good results". A tithe is one tenth or 10% and refers to giving back some of everything you get to whatever god you believe it came from.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Hrappur on 10/15/05 at 00:13:29

10% ;D If only that were enough for the taxman too!

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/15/05 at 02:42:30

boydon_lepasci wrote on 10/14/05 at 23:09:08:

That would be a reference to your "...pray for good results". A tithe is one tenth or 10% and refers to giving back some of everything you get to whatever god you believe it came from.

oh! well steve d is my god in this case and i paid for the plans

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by DirtDawg on 10/15/05 at 11:16:02

60ndown wrote on 10/14/05 at 19:16:24:

wtf is tithing???.....???????????

60,
I thought it was funny. ???

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by gexter on 10/15/05 at 16:03:22

Huh? sorry I came in late what the hell ( heck sorry ) are we talking about?

your going blind with speaker specs sometimes you do a build and you really find out what your speaker is really designed to do.

I advice you were given is the same I get all the time around here. without specifications or a ( woofer tester) its a hit and miss. If you have the time to play and build, build it and try it.

I also like 60's comment: if it sounds good but not loud enough see if you can give it more juice

Excursion is realitive as in I would look at the other factors first. like size sensitivity and designed use.

It is my thought that a sub for a ported enclosure is the best because the HWK is a ported band pass with a air spring, pretty simple reasoning huh. But the air spring throws me off

most average (subs) are designed between the land of the sealed and the ported and are dual duty.

EDT:
I just went back.. My answer to your question is no. I myself would not buy a cheap sub with more excursion. the more excursion equates to spending more money on a quality sub.
with more excursion the sub loses control hence quality becomes more of a factor.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by DirtDawg on 10/15/05 at 17:44:21

gexter wrote on 10/15/05 at 16:03:22:

Huh? sorry I came in late .............

Hey Gexter,

I showed up late, too. When I got here, the original question had been answered 3 times, but I saw another instance of a silly audio myth and attempted to disspell it, once again. Then 60 came along again, seemed to agree with me and added humor. My first response was to play on his humor. Unfortunately only 2 people got it (actually, that's pretty good, for me), and 60 came back all "serious" and so I kinda did, too.

Now that you have summed up the serious part of the thread, we are all waiting for Kurtly to update with results or more questions.

Ya gotta watch out for pigeons! :-/

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by gexter on 10/15/05 at 18:21:24

AH we are all lost in a sea of subs and twists of humour that leave some of us under water.

DD- I got it and was going to build on it. I actually typed up a longer post but deleted it because it took that tithing thing to an all new level and since yours floated like a lead ballon I trashed it.
Sometimes I make an attempt at humour and 1 out of 10 stare at me with a blank look of confusion.
I really get a kick out of that match, a thread can go 20 posts before someone clues in.
He has got me with that blank look of confusion a number of times.

later.
what was the question again? and what was the result?

P.S. " the sea monkey has my money" the HWK cooker

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by 60ndown on 10/15/05 at 22:07:29

DirtDawg wrote on 10/15/05 at 17:44:21:

i wasnt serious,i didnt know what tithing was, i thought you had mis spelled thinking? im never serious...seriously!

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by gexter on 10/15/05 at 23:20:17

I have to say thats true!
seriously

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Kurtly on 10/16/05 at 13:01:47

I got the tithing ;)

OK, well the update is, there is no update....

The drivers are getting as much power as I'm prepared to give them (450watts RMS into rated 500), which is unfortunate,a second hand amp would be cheaper than new drivers!

A shop here has just put on a great deal (better than 50% off) on some drivers that would probably be brilliant, I have a month to try and scrape up a bunch of cash :(

In the meantime I will fiddle with crossover settings, maybe lowering to 80 (from 120) will provide a bit extra volume.

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by gexter on 10/17/05 at 03:52:22

I have my doubt that lowering your X over point will give you more volume.
I have you ever thought about collecting soda cans?

Talk to the manager and ask him if he will hold the sale price over for you . Its a hit and miss, If I really want something and I can't meet the sales date I talk to the guy who can make it happen.
I have done this at even some of the big box stores with some success.
They can always say No but they can say yes too
:)
I am cheap little fellow and I do what I can to save my pennies

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Adrian D. on 10/17/05 at 13:12:07

about lowering the x-over point....
i used a software to reproduce the effect of a lpf. it's really nice, because i played with x-over points and as i got higher the spl went up (not too much), but this isn't worth it, it didn't sound as deep as with lower cutoffs. but this was a software x-over.... i'll try it with a real active x-over in about 2 weeks, when i'll buy one.
btw, i have a db, not a hwk. could be diffrent about x-over points...

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by DirtDawg on 10/18/05 at 14:14:52

Lowering the xo point will sometimes help a lot. There is an enormous amount of power used to reproduce bass frequencies, as we all know, and it's also true with upper bass, >60Hz for instance. If your sub xo is set at 100Hz and there is plenty of 100Hz info produced by the main speakers, then removing that power hungry area from your subs will allow you to increase the overall sub output by focusing better on what is missing from the main speakers.

Even if your sub's main efficiency is in the 50Hz range lowering the XO to 30Hz will allow more available power to go to that 30Hz range and can help to flatten out the 50Hz peak.
A good, highly adjustable crossover is the most useful bass tool of all. ;D

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by gexter on 10/18/05 at 15:46:09

DirtDawg wrote on 10/18/05 at 14:14:52:

A good, highly adjustable crossover is the most useful bass tool of all. ;D

Amen to that brother!

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by BigAir on 10/25/05 at 14:23:55

Kurtly wrote on 10/07/05 at 14:35:51:

I would not put Rockwood 2215's in a HWK. They claim to be fairly efficient and have high excursion, but I doubt either claim is true. If you look at the surround, it's pretty small compared to other "extreme excursion" drivers. Also, if for some reason it does have the "extreme excursion" that they claim, you will get port noise so bad that you won't want to listen to it. I'm using a pair of 18" Madison Warriors ($75.00 per pair) right now and they sound fantastic. Excursion is only 6.3 mm, but sensitivity is at 101 db. I'm using a cheap 250 watt plate amp with the volume at less than 1/3 and it is killing my house. In my opinion, high sensitivity and low xmax are where it's at with the House Wrecker. It looks like you can get 15" Warriors right now for $30.00 per pair?????? (now that's extreme) at MSC (formally SteelSound)
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/musicsupplycenter/Items/100-01-0198?

Title: Re: Rockwood drivers
Post by Kurtly on 10/25/05 at 15:07:06

Unfortunately they will not ship to Australia, I'm afraid my choices are much more limited than yours :(

Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions, I think I'll go for some P.Audio neo 15's. The Housewreckers are part of a PA, the lighter they are the better, they have to be moved alot.

BigAir wrote on 10/25/05 at 14:23:55: