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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl SPEAKER FORUMS >> DECWARE CORNER HORN >> DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1121200742 Message started by Steve Deckert on 04/05/05 at 23:32:17 |
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Title: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/05/05 at 23:32:17 Finally after 11 years I have prototyped a production model and done a set of plans for the DIY speaker builders. These are not on the site yet, but will be in the next week or so. Here is a link to the plans: https://www.decware.com/CORNERHORNPLANS.pdf The file is 2.3 meg. We will have the required actual size template for sale once these plans are added to the web site. The template will sell for $39. I will also be creating a dedicated support forum for these plans soon. Enjoy! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by nodiak on 04/06/05 at 01:11:58 Thanks Steve, that's good news! Worthy of a parade of smileys. Don-"will I or will I not find the gumption to make the corner horns" he wondreth. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by needlz on 04/06/05 at 01:50:04 Thanks mucho Steve... These might be my first venture into building my own speakers. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 04/06/05 at 01:51:16 YES!!! The wait is over! Sawdust time!!! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by thedude on 04/06/05 at 17:27:38 :) Its too bad I don't have any free corners to put them in. Dorm rooms are tight you know. Oh well, one day I'll build them. Until then I'll have to be patient. ??? -Matt |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Obi-Vaughn Kentubi on 04/06/05 at 19:37:53 Anybody have any tips on how to persuade the wifey to let me remodel the living room for these? Maybe I'll tell her that she can remodel the room as long as I can do just one little teeny weeny thing.............. :P I've been fortunate to hear these horns a couple of times, and I can sincerely say they're just about the finest speakers I've ever heard. I once said to someone looking for a new amp-speaker combo that if a Select and a pair of Parker 98 Signatures won't make you happy, then you can't be made happy. Well, these would make you happy........ I'm not saying that a Select and a set of 98 Sigs is anything less than maxed out on the smile factor scale, but the corner horns are BAD TO THE BONE. If you have the corners and room for it, they'll be the end of your speaker search forever. I seriously would remodel my room for these if I had the dough. Must have willpower........getting weaker, weaker............... Eddie :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by DaveCan on 04/06/05 at 22:58:08 Thanks Steve, will the plans show exactly how your using them? ie: the exact speakers, mdf or ply etc, and I noticed that there is a high freq part of the horn on the top that I wondered how your using and if it will be part of the plans and what speaker is used there also. Thanks alot Dave :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Pyewacket on 04/07/05 at 11:40:20 So, those of you that have heard the horns, what drivers were in them at the time? ??? T |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Pyewacket on 04/07/05 at 11:42:54 Oh Obi-Vaughn, Don't think of it as getting weaker... Think of it as ascension to a higher plane... :D (Silly smileys can get addictive.) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by machinehead on 04/07/05 at 13:31:40 Talk about serendipity. I was thinking last night about being shown a pair of Klipschorns by a high school friend ... more than 30 years ago. Was wondering if I could build a pair, and did a web search for 'folded horn.' This led to Steve's 1994 paper about the Corner Horn. Naturally I wondered what had happened in the 11 years since. Came to this forum and voila -- the plans were posted the day before yesterday! Nice timing! :-[ Thanks for this site -- what a resource! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Brian on 04/08/05 at 00:35:37 Welcome Machinehead. I agree, this site is a great resource. I especially like Steve's technical papers - what he calls the white papers. Brian |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Brian on 04/08/05 at 00:37:21 Obi-Vaughn Kentubi wrote on 04/06/05 at 19:37:53:
Wives always love new paint. Now your missus knows if you remodel she will get to repaint the walls. What could make her happier? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by thedude on 04/08/05 at 07:43:00 "So, those of you that have heard the horns, what drivers were in them at the time?" When I heard them they had 6 inch fostex fullrangers in them, the fe167e I think. They have a quality thats hard to describe. Its kind of hard to hear them because they're so transparent. Very impressive. -Matt |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by machinehead on 04/08/05 at 10:31:13 Just wanted to add that the four-way electrical outlet in the photo (first page of the plans linked above) gives a nice hard-core, industrial-tech look to the speaker. First speaker I've seen with unswitched 120 VAC outlets for other equipment. :) Purists will want to install felt-backed caps into the unused outlets. ;) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Nievate on 04/08/05 at 10:38:52 The four way outlet is optional. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Pyewacket on 04/08/05 at 11:24:32 I was curious as to which driver was in the horns at Decfest as the picture shows what looks like the Lowther DX 55 I think. I know Steve did enough trials with this speaker to come up with the gizmo. Has anyone here heard the horn with both? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/09/05 at 14:09:39 During the Decfest the corner horns had the Fostex FE167 drivers with the dustcap removed and a phase plug of sorts installed to kill the beam and extend the highs. This combo is very good, well balanced, has excellent weight and body with wonderful detail and air. I still use these drivers in the corner horns and really I have no plans to change them. The DX55 had it's moments while in the corner horns, but it IS a midrange in that it has no real bass. The DX55 was never intended to be run as a full range speaker with supporting the bottom end with another driver. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by nodiak on 04/09/05 at 15:59:42 Steve, can you describe the phase plug you used? I heard it was a tube...? This could help me out as my honeymoon period with the 167e's is about over. A phase plug and corner horn loading might save our relationship. I will have to build false corners tho as the room is 24' wide, sounds worth it. Don |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by nodiak on 04/11/05 at 03:43:15 got the phase plug info 8) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by johnny boy on 04/11/05 at 05:10:08 Would this work with Zen Select? It looks like the Fostex driver is 8 ohm driver. Would the Zen Select with the EX mod better match for this? Also, it sounds like, by reading the PDF, that you are supposed to have some kind of opening to the adjacent room BETWEEN the speakers for goood depth in the sound stage? My room will have a door at the back of the room (on the corner), and the speakers at the front of the room. I wonder if that will still work? Building the fake wall thing will not be accepted by the wife :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Brian on 04/11/05 at 20:15:20 Hi johnny boy, Here is the first paragraph from the introductory thread on these speakers: "Here is the flagship of Decware speakers, the Decware Corner Horns shown with the production drivers, a modified Fostex 167E. These are 8 ohm at 94dB. They work well with all Decware amps, but especially well with the EX modded amps, the Signature monoblocks, Torii and the new SE34I2. They will be available for sale in 2005." The thread is here: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=shows;action=display;num=1096941248 |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by brad on 04/11/05 at 22:03:41 Ouch. I hope it's easier to build than it looks! :P |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Nievate on 04/12/05 at 09:30:41 I need another set of speakers about as much as another nose. That said, the corner horns have been my goal for many years. I have seen them and heard them, have kept up with this forum waiting for the plans to be published. Now that the cat is out of the bag I am feeling more than inadequate. My woodworking skills and equipment don't seem to be up to the challenge. I wish Ziggy would consider adding a kit of the critical pieces for chumps like me. dennis |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Bugman on 04/12/05 at 19:35:38 I read through the plans... did I miss the sensitivity rating for the corner horns ? Thanks |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/12/05 at 21:15:22 The sensitivity rating when a single 6 inch driver is used will be whatever the rating is of the driver. Naturally the driver will have more bass and enhanced power handling but from 120 Hz on up there should be little if any gain. Steve |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Bugman on 04/13/05 at 03:42:39 Thank you Steve |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Circlomanen on 04/13/05 at 09:35:36 Could you place two of these side by side on the center of a wall, say as a centerchanel ?? They would radiate into 90 degrees each. ??? Would probably make a great subwoofer. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/13/05 at 20:44:50 If you use the 4-5.25 inch driver configuration that gives you up to 4500 Hz or so, then yes. Remember that without the corner a horn has to be larger to do the same thing where bass is concerned. This probably wouldn't be an issue for a center channel application though. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Circlomanen on 04/13/05 at 20:59:47 Thank you for the reply Steve! It would make one hugh centerchannel! Great sensativity, and would make all those gunshots and explosions sound real! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by erimille on 04/16/05 at 13:31:46 Steve, Eddie (any others who have heard these at the last decfest... ) Assembly and construction aside, how do the corner horns compare with the HDTs? I've decided on building rather than buying my next set of speakers and I'm down to 4 differnet options with the HDT and corner horns in the mix so any feedback would be appreciated. Any input / feedback with running these with a CSP and Zen Select? --eric ps: kudos Steve, these look fantastic! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Nievate on 04/16/05 at 21:51:39 Hi erimille, This is an opinion from a old/less than perfect ear. I have heard the corner horns and feel that they should top your list of DYI speaker projects. That is if you have the room for them and the corners in that room. If it were me and I had a large enough room I would go with the false corner plan and place the units at least six to ten feet forward/away from the front wall. This would give you the deep sound stage that Steve has in his listening room. Food for thought. dennis |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by erimille on 04/19/05 at 01:09:02 Nievate wrote on 04/16/05 at 21:51:39:
Thanks Dennis, your feedback is much appreciated. I have the corners, but the not sure about the room dimensions. The room is approx 20'(l) x 16'(w) x 10'(h) - the corners I have availiable are along the length. Steve, quick scans of the plans, and I have a couple questions re "When built by human hands even a 1/2 degree mistake on one angle can multiply itself throughout the angles of the design into a serious problem.". This, coupled with the desire never to paint wood.... - Are you sure the angles are 23 deg? and not 22.5 deg? (360 / 16 = 22.5) - 3/4" plywood... never seen such a beast. Most plywood is 23/32". Can you clarify the specifics of what you where using? Plywood, Baltic plywood? MDF? And a few more general questions re these speakers... - these seem *far* more specialized to the room than other speakers (more specifically HDTs). Can you confirm? I'm converned that the acoustics currently in the room are minimal and wondering how sensitive the horns are to the room's condition. - Can you elaborate on, "The ideal situation for these speakers is to place them in the corners on either side of a large opening to an adjoining room."? Is one asking for trouble to simply put these in corners of a large room? - Re "We recommend the Fostex FE167 full range driver for this cabinet as our ideal choice for lower powered amplifiers." , ay ideas how this might sounds with a Zen Select (and Select with CSP?) - The 'sails' seem a bit tricky... any additional pictures? --eric ps: thanks in advance. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by soulintention on 04/19/05 at 06:51:56 [quote author=Nievate If it were me and I had a large enough room I would go with the false corner plan and place the units at least six to ten feet forward/away from the front wall. This would give you the deep sound stage that Steve has in his listening room. are there any specs available on the false corner plan requirements? gratitude :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Nievate on 04/19/05 at 12:32:03 Welcome Soulintention, I sent you a PM with my understanding of this issue. dennis |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/24/05 at 15:00:01 erimille wrote on 04/19/05 at 01:09:02:
No I'm not sure what the angles will be - 23 or 22.5 degrees. This is a cabinet that you will have to find the angles as you go. The angles will be determined by the accuracy of your layout. 3/4 plywood is not 3/4 inches - actual thickness of different materials also vary slightly. Of course actual thickness effects all your measurments. This is why an actual template is provided for you to lay out your cabinet. I have used MDF and birch plywood. The cabinet is not a "live" cabinet where the type of wood used will greatly effect it's sound. You can make it from whatever you like. Well, they eliminate the bass issue in two corners, but other then that they are affected by the rooms dimensions and acoustics just like any other speaker. If you simply put these into the corners you will have no more depth to the soundstage then any other speakers placed in the corners. Plus keep in mind that the farther apart they are the farther you will sit back to stay on axis. Yea, it sounds great. No problems. The sails (or wings) are a bit tricky. If you laid out your cabinet square and true and perfectly centered the template you make for the first wing should also fit the remaining three. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by nubz69 on 04/25/05 at 05:09:47 Could the parker 98 drivers possibly be utilized in these enclosures? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JLM on 05/11/05 at 21:42:10 This sounds like a job for Ziggy! Perhaps pre-cut panelized kits. Hopefully the baffle could be removable to accommodate driver changeouts. Steve, have you thought about a slightly larger version for deeper bass response (one that would still fit through a 36 inch door)? If you simply place them in the corners you'd lose any depth of soundstage. The easiest way to provide depth would be to build these into the side walls of the room with open shelving above, wing wall behind, and a grill cover. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 05/11/05 at 23:29:20 These are quite a bit more complex than HDTs, etc. and are hand fit. It would be REALLY difficult to build as a knock down kit w/o cutting on a CNC machine. Yes, the front baffle is removable to easily experiment with different drivers in front, or use a solid baffle with no drivers in front, and four drivers inside (front load instead of back load). ;) :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by chrisby on 05/13/05 at 19:15:09 serenechaos wrote on 05/11/05 at 23:29:20:
Actually, I think it would require a 5-axis CNC machine* and carefull 3-D program code to execute the changing angle of the inside curve of the final flare "sail" panels ( W,X, etc). *these are not quite as common as the "big routers", and machine time for a small production run would be quite costly. If this design was ever to migrate to commercial production, it would probably make more sense to build KD assembly in cast fibreglass. Custom colorscheme and pinstriping by Chip Foose, please, with replaceable front bafflles by the zigster "hi, my name is chris, and my hi-fi's been Overhauled " |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by zinker on 05/13/05 at 22:08:16 I think if one was to go into production the design could be tweaked to make it easier. Remember, Steve designed these to fit his needs with the tools he had on hand. I'm not discrediting him, I am just saying there are lots of ways to skin the cat and still come out with the same results. No doubt if he were to go into production the parts would change. Im sure Ziggy has plenty of ideas already.And knowing what I know about Steve's work, the product would probably improve! :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JLM on 05/17/05 at 11:01:55 Hard to compare the corner horns to the HDTs as the corner horns are in Steve's custom listening room that was, to some degree, built around/with these speakers in mind. At the 2003 Decfest we heard them and the HDTs (with still fresh drivers). The horns in his listening room, the HDTs in his garage, hardly a fair comparision. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 05/17/05 at 23:11:50 Did you not like the corner horns, or you're saying nothing else was in the listening room to compare to, so no one knows what corner horns sound like relative to HDTs, radials, or anything else? ??? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JLM on 05/18/05 at 10:50:44 My honest opinion: The horn is too small to extend frequency response below 40 Hz, therefore it cannot be an audiophile speaker as it misses some of the musical range, it can only be part of an audiophile speaker. To develop depth of soundstage a corner horn must be located in a room that has wing walls across from each other as Steve has done, making it practicality very limited. Steve's room isn't small, but with the needed wing walls and 45 degree orientation built into the design of the horns, the listener is pretty well forced into nearfield listening setup. This again limits its application. Maybe Steve is more busy than I can imagine, but don't know why its taken years after they were built to get these plans off the shelf. I wasn't all that impressed with what I heard. Keep in mind that they use middle of the road Fostex drivers. And as you may recall I like and own Fostex. This goes back to my suggestions to make a larger version of the cabinet that would accommodate larger drivers and produce deeper bass. IMO this is a very involved cabinet to be limited by "ordinary" drivers. And IMO no cabinet can be ideally suited for a wide variety of drivers as has been discussed here. Just my opinion. The music played was unfamilar to me. The source was obviously vinyl, with all it's surface noise/etc. As a digital guy that bothered me right from the start. Another reason I wasn't impressed is because Steve played a game with each of us, as we were escorted into the room blind folded. Games shouldn't be necessary. Perhaps I take audio too seriously. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JLM on 05/19/05 at 00:01:43 I finally heard The Horns sound good at the recent MichiFest. Sorry, I don't recall which of the six amps we had there that we were listening to them with, might of been the Cary SuperAmp. They were Randy's old beat up pair with the original drivers I believe. They really did sound very nice. But The Horns have some issues IMO too (primarily lack of bass, they sit too low for many domestic settings, and they use a somewhat cheaper/lesser efficiency Fostex driver). OTOH I fully agree with Ed's manifesto of the virtues of the single 4 inch driver speaker (with the caveat of needing a powered sub/bass augmenter to go with them). Another amazingly good speaker that uses cheap/small Fostex drivers ($38 FE127E) is the Omega Super 3. The Super 3 is standmounted, wide baffle bass reflex that cost about the same as The Horns when you add in the stands but actually goes a bit deeper. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 05/19/05 at 00:56:03 JLM So, maybe it is just that your ears prefer BR/TL and sand amps? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JLM on 05/27/05 at 10:20:56 I'll admit to being a big mass loaded transmission line fan having owned them for nearly 30 years. Bass reflex and horn enclosures are suited to different drivers, so its an apple/orange issue right from the start. But I prefer tubes to conventional solid state from 60 Hz on up. I'd put chip and digital amps in their own categories and typically ahead of either tube or conventional solid state. Wouldn't be nice if each of us could record our audio "beliefs" with our profile so you could know just what context to take comments/opinions in? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Brian on 05/28/05 at 09:51:59 Say that's a novel idea Jeff, about putting our audio beliefs in our user profiles. I like that. But I don't think I would know what to say. ::) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by ALF on 06/10/05 at 22:45:06 Quote:
My audio beliefs: - 1. I do it for fun. 2. I like what I like. 3. I change my mind a lot (if you had a mind like mine, you'd change it too) 4. I don't spend anything I don't need to spend. That's it ... boring perhaps, but .... ALF |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by selmerdave on 06/13/05 at 04:36:33 Alf I think mine would be identical to the letter. Dave |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 06/13/05 at 21:54:36 Corner Horn plans arrived in the mail today! :D :D :D May the saw dusting begin! :-* ;D Robert |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by jj420 on 08/14/05 at 04:14:02 Im so excited, details please, please? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by JDW on 08/24/05 at 00:10:37 Please keep us posted on your progress and experiences SereneChaos. Oh, some pics would be great too. :) |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by teepeeworks on 02/21/06 at 03:40:52 nodiak wrote on 04/11/05 at 03:43:15:
Nodie, Care to share on this? Take care, Corey |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 02/21/06 at 08:06:23 Corey Yeah, it's a vacuum tube. Just cut out the dust cap, & the magnet holds it on. Kinda like the sockets in yur HDTs. Robert BTW It does make a very noticable difference! |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by teepeeworks on 02/21/06 at 17:45:39 The flux of the magnet holds it on and just the pins are contacting the pole piece? This doesn't seem like a stable surface area but I guess it must be. :) Take care, Corey |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by serenechaos on 02/22/06 at 08:03:48 teepeeworks wrote on 02/21/06 at 17:45:39:
Yup! Just the pins. Quite unlike the very solid feeling connection of the socket in the 206s. Steve said he tried a socket & it didn't work very well with the 167s. They stay in place fine though (unless you bump them); I've never had one fall out. I was going to cut a piece of rod, the diameter of the tube, maybe 1/4" thick, and drill holes for the pins to fit tightly; that would stick better, but so far haven't seen the need. Robert |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by cosmos on 02/27/06 at 04:24:43 I just wanted to say hello to everyone and add that last week I stopped by Decware. Steve is a great guy and let me listen to some of his equipment and many of his ideas.. My general impression of him and his equipment is extremely favorable. Now, you might ask yourself, OK, but why leave this type of a message in the Corner horn forum? My reasoning revolves around one simple idea. Steve's corner horn setup sounds fantatstic! I have been in and around gear professionally and otherwise from about 1971. I have been a huge fan of several brands of speakers, but in the short amount of listening I was able to do at DECware, I can tell you that I am extremely impressed by the corner horns. In my belief, it is one of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard. It blows my mind to think he is getting all of that from a single 6.5" driver.. Yes, I will be building at least one pair of the horns. Steve is a great resource and in every aspect I have seen, he views his equipment with a passion and sense of perfection that one seldom sees in anything.. I have no affiliation with Steve other than immediate and immense respect. He is a true audiophile. IMO, if you haven't listened to these things yet, you should. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by gnat leader on 02/27/06 at 07:47:13 Excuse my ignorance, but what is the driver he's using in it? |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by cosmos on 02/27/06 at 11:51:43 gnat leader wrote on 02/27/06 at 07:47:13:
At the time I heard them, I believe he had a modified Fostex FE-167 in them. Simply incredible. He tells me that there is a better combination as a two way, but I can't remember what drivers it consisted of. I will likely play with a few of my own ideas once built. Such as a two way with a ESS Heil tweeter.. etc etc. Frankly, I am also thinking that I will build a set of imperial horns as well, even though I never heard those.. |
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Title: Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! Post by Brian on 02/27/06 at 23:01:29 Everybody needs Imperials. -"Blanket Statement" Brian |
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