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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> System warm up? https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1788530722 Message started by Donnie on 09/04/26 at 15:05:22 |
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Title: System warm up? Post by Donnie on 09/04/26 at 15:05:22 In my unending quest to learn what truly matters and what is "old wives tales"( Bullshit in shop talk) in regards to my listening enjoyment, so today's question is about the warming up of our systems. How long does it take for an amplifier to warm up to optimal temp? What about speakers?? Should my streamer warm up? I can see where my tubes need to warm up, because tubes run on some sort of magic that I'm not educated enough to understand. I know that there is some sort of electron flow and getters that need to get and other such magic. I wonder if solid state is the same way? I recently put together a couple of class A solid state amps and had to bias them so that the outputs were the same. Cold to hot only varied maybe 2%, is that enough to be audiable? Then I get thinking about speakers, there aren't any interference fits to worry about, so why would they need to warm up? In saying this, I pretty much always let my equipment warm up for at least a few minutes. I'm famous for switching everything on and going to take a shower or get myself something to drink. So is it necessary, is it a good practice, or is it just a old wife's tale? I have a whole list of such things that I want to ask about in the future! |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Tony on 09/04/26 at 16:09:30 Donnie, Thanks for putting this question out to the community. I have had the same question, and like you, I turn my tube amps on and leave them for a while (10 - 15 minutes). Hopefully those who know can help us understand why this is best practice. I'm looking forward to the other things on your list. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Ghostship on 09/04/26 at 16:12:34 My rule of thumb for anything with a crystal clock is to leave it on. I have witnessed Streamers and DACs benefit more the longer they are on: from minutes to hours, hours to days, days to weeks. Since I'm not patient enough to wait 3 weeks for a DAC to be fully warmed up with OCXO clocks settled before listening, I simply leave them on. Many quality solid-state amps have a standby feature which keeps most of the internals at optimal temps. Certainly, tubes sound better to me when warmed up first. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by CAJames on 09/04/26 at 18:39:18 I think everyone understands (or should understand) that tubes need some time to warm up. But transistors also have a temperature dependence, some more than others depending on the exact part and how it is used. Nelson Pass said my SEM (Single Ended MOSFET) monoblocs needed an hour before everything stabilized, although I felt like they were mostly good to go after 15 minutes. Other SS amps warmed up in a few minutes. I leave my DAC and DDC on 24/7. They don't use a lot of watts, and when I have turned them off for an extended period, when we went on vacation, it took a day before the sound was back to "normal." That is the manufacturer's recommendation, and I was skeptical at first, but they know of what they speak. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Hearafter on 09/04/26 at 18:39:55 Excellent inquiry. What has worked best for me is anything that does not require tubes stays on 24/7 (with the exception of my Field Coil speaker drivers…they get hot in those boxes). Tube gear I like to give a minimum of 10 minutes warmup but they do sound a bit better with more time. I can get impatient and break that rule on occasion…anyway they still sound great even with less then 10 minutes. Keep ‘em coming Donnie! |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by CAJames on 09/04/26 at 18:50:33 A related question might be, how long will you leave your tube gear on if you aren't actively listening? Or put another way, what is your trade off between putting hours on your tubes vs. the warmup-cooldown stress from turning the amp on and off. Bonus points if you also consider the inrush current on the rectifier, if you have one. For me, I've always had a tube preamp and had no problem leaving it on for hours if I thought I was going to listen later. But when I first got my Decware UFOs I was pretty quick to turn them off if I wasn't listening. But over the years I've gotten more and more relaxed about it and will leave them on for hours if I'm going to come back later. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Lon on 09/04/26 at 19:02:26 Like James I leave my solid state DAC and phono preamp and transport on all the time. A digital source in my experience takes between 12 to 36 hours to sound its very best after being switched off for over an hour or so. My Decware amps I turn off when I am not going to be using them for a while, and if I am going to return to them in an hour or two I'll leave them on at low low volume with a disc spinning in the transport. When I was in between wives I would sometimes let the amps run for a few days. They kept sounding better and better and better as the hours slid by. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by MM on 09/04/26 at 19:03:12 My streamer/DAC sleeps, where the clock is always on but the main power consumption is off. I can’t say that I’ve ever A/B letting a clock run or shutting it off but the logic behind letting it continue to run makes some sense to me. My amp generally runs 10+ hours a day, sometimes in 2 blocks. I never let it warm up but I can definitely tell the difference after it has been on for an hour. The sound is much more weighty and enveloping. I never do any critical listening for the first hour or so. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Dominick on 09/04/26 at 21:13:44 I’ll throw my hat in the ring and extend this discussion about breaking in capacitors. When I upgraded the capacitors in my ERR’s to the softball sized Miflex capacitors, I was told the break in time was close to 400 hours by a highly regarded audiophile that Bob Z. knew. Truth be told as I clocked in time on the speakers, they consistently changed even upwards past 400 hours for the sounded consistent on a regular basis. I remember either Steve or Bob Z. telling me that if capacitors aren’t exercised within a few weeks… That they need to go into another very small break-in period before they sound I just can’t remember if it was a few hours or more than that. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Donnie on 09/05/26 at 01:16:44 Dom, Yep break in is on my list of things I wanted to ask about. Is it real or are our ears just getting used to what we are hearing? I guess I should call this thread "Mythbusters" |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Ghostship on 09/05/26 at 02:19:06 That reminds me of the old George Carlin line "You ever notice that your own farts smell ok?" I think we get habituated to how our broken-in system sounds...we get used to it, then settle into listening to our music. Although there may be "wow" moments of pure bliss, the sound quality doesn't really improve; it remains constant. When a component is new, and we expect the sound quality to be suboptimal, we still get used to it. When the sound quality changes for the better over time because of "break-in", the number and frequency of "wow" moments increase, undeniably. We "never heard that song sound like that before", and all of the audiophile metric terms are employed to quantify the improvement. Then, we become habituated to the sound again. The tubes will degrade over time, and like a simmering frog, we probably won't notice for a while. Then fresh tubes return us to the previous glory. While I do believe in the placebo effect, with high-quality components like Decware in a well-sorted system, break-in is definitely a thing. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by CAJames on 09/05/26 at 04:04:20 Break-in is 110% a thing. I totally believe some people don't hear it, either because their system doesn't resolve it, or they don't pay attention or they don't believe it is possible. But, and it has taken me a while to fully live this, I don't care what other people think about it. And I'm not going to spend any time or effort trying to change anyone's mind about the subject. I know what I hear, and I know a lot of people hear basically the same thing I do. |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by Dominick on 09/05/26 at 04:15:28 Quote:
I can say with 100% guarantee that capacitor break-in is a real thing. I can remember at least 5 distinct changes that I heard overtime. They ranged from tinny, flabby bass, lack of micro detail, soundstage depth, lack of cohesiveness. The first 100 hours were not fun. As a point of reference…here’s a pic of the softball sized capacitors wired up to my Err’s. Mind you this is before I add the second Duelund bypass that is not even pictured.  |
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Title: Re: System warm up? Post by MM on 09/05/26 at 14:06:03 Miflex KPCU’s are the holy grail, in my opinion. I’ve had three Decware amps fitted with them and used them in a Musical Paradise DAC. They have an almost spooky realism about them. Very natural with the best “in the room” sound I have heard. I’ve gotten to compare them against a slew of other caps and, cost aside, prefer them over Jupiter wax and Duelund CAST. But their break-in is no joke. At least 250 hours in the coupling stage and 400 in the power supply. Dom’s analysis of the changes one experiences is spot on. |
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