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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Reviews >> Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1754415215 Message started by Geno on 08/05/25 at 18:33:35 |
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Title: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Geno on 08/05/25 at 18:33:35 I've really enjoyed watching Steve's latest series of videos - Sound Bytes. I took the 'Speaker Placement' one, to heart. I thought I was at a very good place, with my combination of equipment, room, treatments...really everything in the audio chain. In fact, I have not done anything at all for months, to make any changes - no tube rolling, equipment changes, etc. I do swap back and forth, periodically, between my tubes and my SS Sansui (sacrilege, I know - but I love both...) We have all heard over and over, how important the room is - and I have done everything from, adding room treatment, changing up furniture placement, and especially, tweaking speaker placement - all with great results. Using open baffles, I have had the speakers pulled out, close to 3 ft. from the front wall, and a constant 8' distance from the listening position. The sound has been really outstanding. So, like I said, I have not changed anything in quite some time now. But, watching the video on speaker placement, I decided to experiment. The subject was 'nearfield', which, for the reason of placing speakers and listening chair, out much more in to the room, I (and most people I'm sure) have not tried. But instead of going 'Full' nearfield, i moved the speakers 1' closer, and the chair out 1' more. Like I said, not nearfield, but now 6'. And, as part of the subject of nearfield, Steve suggests pretty extreme toe-in. Right speaker pointed at left shoulder and vice versa. I started there, but the result was pretty bright. I gradually toed them back out, and ended up with right speaker at right shoulder. I ended up with this new setup, starting Saturday afternoon, and have had the most pleasurable few days of listening, that I've had in my listening career. There is nothing like a free upgrade ;) |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by ArtMan on 08/05/25 at 19:36:35 Geno, I tried that speaker placement with my Caintuck Cherry Magnums. I found that moving the placement further out beyond the opposite shoulders fixed the brightness problem rather than moving it back like you did. It also created a larger sound stage than the more normal placement. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Lon on 08/05/25 at 19:58:15 It's great to do that kind of experimentation. I find that in my room with my speakers I have to have the speakers closer to the walls than I would like and NO toe in. The HR-1 speakers are about 8 feet apart and about 10 feet from my ears. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by CAJames on 08/05/25 at 20:50:27 Quote:
Preach! My listening "area" (can't really call it a room) has a bunch of geometric constraints and is asymmetrical as well. I ended up with my speakers about 7' apart and 7' from my chair. And, for me, small changes in toe in have profound effects on the sound. Just a few degrees either way is the difference between WOW and meh, esp. for the imaging. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Geno on 08/05/25 at 21:51:51 Yep. It is fun and can be eye (ear) opening, the results you can get. Art, that’s interesting with the toe-in. I never considered toeing them in even more. Since you brought it up, I’ll try that too. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by MM on 08/06/25 at 02:29:45 I recall Steve suggesting the opposite shoulder toe-in several years ago when he was more active in the forums and despite being counter-intuitive it stuck for me. I keep my baffles about 4ft from the wall, 7 feet apart (center to center), and I sit about 10 ft from the speakers. My listening space is open to my kitchen and between the two rooms we spend most of our time here. Surprisingly the sound is still really good in the kitchen on the opposite wall despite the aggressive toe-in. I fully agree that every little change affects the sound. It took a while to get it dialed in but was worth the effort. I’m like you, Geno, with an unsymmetrical space but it’s so easy to tune spaces with treatment, cable, and tube choices. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Geno on 08/08/25 at 01:33:54 Hey Art. I’ve been experimenting with toe-in again. You said that you are toed in a little more than opposite shoulder. Do you have an approximation of how much in front of you, the angles cross? Thanks! Geno |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by ArtMan on 08/08/25 at 17:44:26 Hi Geno. My room is wider than deep and is asymmetric due to room dividers. The speakers are approximately 3 feet from the back wall, 8 feet apart and I sit about 8 feet away from each speaker. Presently I would say each speaker points between one and one and a half feet beyond the opposite shoulder. I would think each room and placement would be somewhat unique. I approached it by toeing in the speakers until the brightness was completely gone. I then would incrementally toe the speakers out or in until I got the best balance between tonal balance and sound stage. There are still moments when I re-check to reflect on changes in my system. I do it by ear. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by CAJames on 08/08/25 at 18:37:48 Quote:
Absolutely. Pre Decware I had different pairs of stand mounted monitors (ProAc and Totem) and each behaved differently from the other and different from my current Omegas. IMO the only way to figure this out is to put in the time and effort moving them around, listening carefully, and moving them some more. Blue painter's tape is your friend.  |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Geno on 08/08/25 at 22:15:52 Quote:
No doubt about it. I’ve experimented a bunch, and have ended up back at right speaker, right shoulder. I was just curious as to how much in, you decided on. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by ArtMan on 08/09/25 at 17:20:38 Geno. I forgot to mention that visually my two speakers cross about two feet in front of my head. I am not surprised that different placements in different room acoustics could result in different solutions. |
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Title: Re: Lessons learned - Steves latest Sound Bytes videos Post by Sean on 08/09/25 at 18:37:01 I have painters tape on the floor marking speaker position. In the past any toe in created too much energy in the center stage. Last night I fiigured I’d have nothing to lose by trying toe in again. If memory serves me correctly my speakers and chair are in a 9’ triangle. I toed in each speaker to about 16 inches from my shoulders, right speaker 16” from right shoulder. Crazy, now the center stage goes waaaaaay back with crazy depth without overloading or sharpening the treble. I did lose a slight bit of side stage so more baby steps are in order. On one hand, I love the free tweak…on the other hand, I thought I was done with placement which I should know better that fiddlin round is NEVER done!!! |
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