Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Help! I'm having an experience! https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1709952406 Message started by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 02:46:46

Title: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 02:46:46 No shit, I'm having a real experience here. Audio nirvana taken to a different dimension. Tonights dimension is about perfection in frequency balance and depth and imaging. I just made the house speakers sound inferior!  It's just insane. Yes, I've said this before, but this is really and I mean really messing me up! In fact it is just blowing my friking mind!  I can't even believe what I am hearing. I really can't!  This doesn't make any sense!  Boy I can see this becoming a deep conversation. It is a ball busting lesson from the Audio Gods, who btw understand they have your attention. I understand and bow before the Audio Gods and admit I know nothing. I was so infatuated with my open baffle omni direction design's imaging and soundstage (that was actually the Audio Gods Design) because I could stand or sit or be on the floor and it was perfection. I decided that was because of the design.  Tonight the Audio Gods made the same thing happen from the most polar opposite possibility possible. Boy the more advanced you get, the more hard core the teaching becomes. These guys don't mess around. Seriously, just when I think I know something my ego stretches to door open to the Audio Gods who enjoy teaching with spontaneity and consistency at the same time. The speakers I am listening to right now are new, so I am in love, out out body, tripping hard, can't sit in the listening chair because the excitement of what I am hearing is too much, and I keep jumping up and walking in circles.   God I love this hobby. This years Decfest is going to be devastating. We will have two new experiences that can both happen with the Sarah 300B amplifier.   I know this is a teaser as is my style, but this is serious. It's going to mess a lot of people up. I didn't think it could happen.  Imaging perfected which means frequency balance perfected because the two are one. I plan to ignore all questions. When the time is right I will post more, but just know we are having border line Biblical experiences here that can be shared and experienced by most reading this if you're half way serious. I said serious, not rich. Your humble audio servant, Steve : ) Honestly, I am hearing things that I had no idea were in these tracks that I have listened to at least 75 times on everything we make.  As this story reveals itself you will understand why this is so amazing. The exact opposite of what we might expect!  All these layers that I didn't know were there, and coming from me quite frankly is saying something. It is a humbling experience to hear it perfected and the amazing combination of things that made it happen I could have never predicted in a million years! Boy this is fun.. hearing that recordings are somehow 20X better than I thought, and frankly I can't imagine too many mastering guys that have heard anything quite this good.  It's perfection.  It should become a world regulated standard.  Law.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Kamran on 03/09/24 at 03:46:23 Forget about Decfest—this teaser is devastating! Note to self: Don’t ask Steve questions on this new development. If you wait—it will come.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 03:56:29 It is by a factor of 4 the best frequency balance I have ever heard in my life without question.  The imaging as a result is just insane.  I didn't know this was possible without trickery.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 04:13:32 Yea, there is no question I have never heard anything this good before.  Not even really close.  This is like we went through the neutral zone and are committing a sin.  I had no idea.  I feel like someone who has gone through a near death experience where you saw God, and then you came back forever changed.  I'm not kidding.  I'm not. We're not on this earth for a very long time and with all the bullshit going on this is experiencing the potential of the human condition.  Holy crap is this just unreal!  I had no idea.   I didn't. I KNEW IT WAS POSSIBLE!  I have chased this for 30 years.  It has happened.  It is done. Look for good things to come! Steve : )

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 04:23:03 The colors are surreal.  It's like the descriptions of past life regressions where the subject is between lives chilling in a garden with the idilic stream and green grass thing going on, the smell of perfume in the air and a generally blissed out state of all your senses.  The sky is extra blue, the blue of of the ocean is extra deep, the depth of field is super defined, the smells in the air are lucid.  This shit is bending reality.  And as always anyone who hasn't heard it will assume it's just hyperbole because that is the world we live in.  Decware is the hifi undergound.  It's real.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Kamran on 03/09/24 at 04:33:28 Argh, I’m having a hard time focusing on my also stupendously good listening session on Sarah right now… Loic put it best—you and your fam are the giants of the hifi underworld—I haven’t heard it but I believe it and I’m hanging on to every word, every description, every emotion, as you go through your discovery!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 04:41:55 Tonight is a holy shit moment.  One of those that get recorded in the highlights of you life -- folder, which is the one that flashes before your eyes before you die.  No worries, I'm not going to die, I'm just saying that the experience is so stunning that it made one of those indelible marks on life's calendar. I'm so happy! Holly shit what a gift! Perfectly ready to through away the other 30 pairs of speakers in this room : ).  Stranded on an island with only one pair of speakers and 4 watts?  Yup.  Not a problem.  In fact the jokes on the rest of you. Sorry, I can already predict this will go on all night.  Every track I listen to is a revelation.  There is no way the engineers knew it was this good is there? Damn.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Kamran on 03/09/24 at 04:49:15 God, I wish Scotty could beam me up to Peoria right now! I want to experience what this man is experiencing.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 05:05:47 Please forgive me but I can't help it. I just heard a track, I am well familiar with from a sound stage standpoint and it just blew past what I thought it was by a factor of at least 8 times.  I heard the focal point track across the space to left in a linear line that tracked 80 feet at a 1 degree down angle.  This is just insane.  What is happening.  I should do some some drugs to come down! I have either become 8 times more conscious or the stereo has become 8 times more accurate.  Thank you God for letting me live long enough to hear these things and share them with my friends!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 05:19:40 The girth of the dominating bass/percussion is unlike anything I have ever experienced.  It makes the earth shudder without effort and without compression and without attention. It just magnifies reality to an insane factor.  It's like a tiny guitar string plucked just right creating a sustain that in the 3rd cycle brings down a skyscraper.   Clearly the Audio Gods manipulated my computer to make me think I found this special combination of drivers and coils and cabinet to show me that the 37 degree omni baffles are NOT the end all that I thought they were, and damnit they are presently the best in the room.  At least they were.   Girth.  Girth is measured by scale weight and texture.  This just blow it over the top so far beyond what I thought was possible it is making me realize that perfect sound is actually heaven.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 05:39:11 I'm never gong to be the same.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 05:50:45 I'm sorry... this is impossible!  You just can't imagine what I am hearing right now. These "electronic' tracks taken as recreational are anything but. The depth of expression is immense.  It really feels at this point like I have spent my whole live seeing 256 colors and now I am seeing millions.  And the depth of the colors and resolution of their shades is just jaw dropping. I will never be the same. It is like I have walked for 62 years and suddenly someone came and picked me up with a car! Steve

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 06:13:23 This is the most lucid experience I have ever had from recorded music.  I really didn't know this was possible. Still listening to the same live album. Boy this is a real game changer.  It is like comparing a 4 cylinder with reasonable performance and a turbo to a fucin spaceship!  I will never be the same.  You can't un-hear shit and this has just shown me how devistating the Sarah 300B amplifier actually is.  Holly shit.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 06:37:25 I will never be the same.  I have been riding a bicycle for 62 years and you give me a dirt bike.  You're just mean... or extremely kind.  Thank you for letting me hear Sarah for the very first time.  Holy blank!   I'll never be the same.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 06:38:20 This has restored my faith in the human race, music and recording quality all at the same time.  Damn.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 06:52:05 Listen to what you're hearing Steve.... it's impossible.  Seriously, it's impossible.  Don't tell anyone about this.  You'll loose credibility.  Until they actually hear it for themselves that is.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Loic on 03/09/24 at 12:21:33 My brain got your message late last night, and been awake ever since thinking of polar opposite to the omni baffle… Coaxial driver in an array up firing position? Did you put speakers in the floor? Wish I was there.  Lol

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Donnie on 03/09/24 at 12:31:57 I was eyeballing the very same drivers just this week to put into the HeadWreckers cabinets. This is weird!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by HockessinKid on 03/09/24 at 13:47:27 God bless the Audio Gods & Steve Deckert. Sounds like a true mind bender in the making. Decfest 2025 here I come. HK

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Geno on 03/09/24 at 14:51:00 Alright! Enough!!! I want details, and I want them NOW!!! Steve, you are such a mean tease. Reminds me of a girl I knew in college - Sally Ratinkratch :-[

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 17:08:47 Sorry I was too busy listening. I couldn't stop. After a year of sword fighting with the Platinum 10 presence peak to finally hear these horns without it was something special. The only initial problem is that the bass is actually flat down to 29Hz whereas before it went to 29Hz but was heavily rolled.  So some room tuning or possibly some cabinet de-tuning.  A refreshing problem to have instead of the other way around : )

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Tommy Freefall on 03/09/24 at 17:15:31 To quote Django Unchained: "You had my curiosity. But now you have my attention" When can we have some photos!?

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Donnie on 03/09/24 at 20:34:08 Like I said earlier, I was looking at the same driver to put in the HeadWrecker. I was looking at a different tweeter, but maybe not now. It scares me that I would have the same thought as Steve. I have had real good luck with Satori drivers in a couple of builds in the last year or two.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/10/24 at 10:36:04 That tweeter looks like a ScanSpeak soft dome. Did Steve find a combo that will cater to my ears. Fingers crossed. Looking forward to more here and later this year. I made a visual discovery last Friday during a bike ride that parallels your experience Steve. We got our camper in it's permanet spot last Tuesday and stayed the week taking advantage of an early spring. Riding a section of trail near our camp it was noticed across the river and train tracks a very large multilevel waterfall of about 40' height. I've been past this area dozens of times if not a hundred. It is a impressive sight that can not be heard over the river flow or seen when the trees start to bloom. I would also think the falls diminish after spring rain(It rained all day Thursday). The picture below was taken while precarious perched on the river bank hill. The white splotches(falls) framed with a tree and couple of branchs start just below the large horizontal light colored branch and end at train track level. Going to try and get a better shot with the SLR before the rains let up and trees bloom.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/10/24 at 22:55:04 I was able to dial in the bass by re-tuning the slot.  It is a lot flatter and more extended now.   Here is how the whole speaker looks compared to before: DFH-95 in orange.  Both measured without horn flare averaged in.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/11/24 at 12:09:05 The chart definitely correlates with your experence. I remember that the HeadWreckers suffered from imaging during my listening session at your place last summer. Listening to the seasoned HDTv2s immediately after brought this shortcoming front and center. It seems you worked it out by the enthusiasm of this post. Congrats! Work the drivers well over the next 7 months for a knock out Decfest that may get me started on a final HW build at home. [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/12/24 at 04:41:36 The listening experience is kind.  What is interesting is that there are two drivers instead of three and the crossover is ultra simple compared to the house speakers.  The cost is way less, using equally premium parts and the results may actually be better.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by DJFreon on 03/12/24 at 22:10:39 Steve, Electronic music in its spectacular form... I very much recommend Faithless 2.0 Vinyl The remixes side is devastating. Give it a listen on the new drivers. Be prepared for rapture.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/13/24 at 13:08:14 The house speakers are shocking good. Not sure if it could sustain my listening appetite over time as a single driver speaker does. Interesting on your choice of drivers in the latest HeadWrecker scheme. Good overlap in frequency response with integrated matched efficiency without padding. IMO resistor padding just adds fuzz to the sound. Are you still listening? [smiley=peanuts21.gif]

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by DJFreon on 03/13/24 at 19:43:36 JB, resistor padding just adds fuzz to the sound. How does it do that electronically? I am asking so I can learn.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Brian on 03/14/24 at 04:57:47 DJFreon, Me too. This is the kind of question I always have; what is it about electricity and electronics that causes the various effects on the sound of the music. Thanks for thinking to ask. I often don't get the question formulated. I just have the confusion and the wondering. Brian

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/15/24 at 16:02:54 I was hoping someone would jump in here with an interpretation of how a resistor can add it's signature to high wattage impedance music circuits My thoughts on this boils down to basic universal physics. Even though we can not see electron flow it is subject to the same things we can see/experience in flow, like water. Water flowing in an garden hose comes to mind. To keep it simple here, when water flows in a hose it is unrestricted but limited to the size and material of the hose. Placing some pressure on the flexible garden hose like stepping on a section with the sole of your foot will restrict the flow like a resistor placed in a circuit. The restriction in water flow can be increased or decrease with varying pressure applied with the foot like a potentiometer in an electrical circuit. In a water hose your foot can feel this restriction and your ears can hear it because pressure is built up prior to the restriction then forced thru the restriction emptying into a relaxed section of hose creating turbulence. This may be the hard part to picture in an electrical circuit. Keeping it simple, a resistor disrupts magnetic flow, creates idle electrons upstream while a select few are forced thru creating chaos downstream. It must be said that while it may seem that the above would totally disrupt the music, the electrical side of it is done at the speed of light which diminishes its effect on the circuit in our dimension. But, it effects it none the less and does add a veil. Hope this makes sense. My two.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/15/24 at 17:06:20 Some great explanations. What you hear happen is things either become filtered or softened.  That can be good or bad depending on your requirements.  Mid-fi electronics on non-audiophile recordings always sound more palatable filtered since the filter helps to mask other artifacts that creep into the signal like grain, dryness and flatness in the sound.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Brian on 03/16/24 at 06:27:21 JBzen & Steve, I thank you both. That helps. Brian

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/16/24 at 11:14:06 I can't help but believe some of that grain is also introduced by heated electrons forced thru the resistance during high wattage peaks. I've always called those moments tails of fuzziness. Not heard any of that since moving to single drivers and single ended amps. On with the visual parallelism, I did get some pictures with the SLR of the newly discover hidden falls. My SLR uses a full size SD card and I do not have the reader with me to transfer the file to an internet linked device. So the pictures show a much clearer view but did not satisfy my curiosity. There is a town called Layton about a mile down the river on the same side of the falls. I cycled over there thru a cool tunnel and bridge proceeding up the river towards the falls. About a quarter mile up a gate with warning signs of rail road property and no trespassing are posted. Reading the signs I also noticed an old 1948 school bus nesting between two trees that has been setting there for a very very long time. Just then a man comes out of the seeming abandoned element ravaged bus shirtless and on the heavy side. It kind of startled me at first. We ended up having a great conversation that gave me a very good history of the land I've spied. It turns out I was standing in the middle of a very popular movie scene of Buffalo Bill's house and surroundings. The pic below shows the house shot from the GAP trail and the bus(hard to see) on the far right side. Going have to find a DVD of the movie "Silence of the Lambs."

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by MikeinMontana on 03/16/24 at 15:11:14 Very cool. I enjoyed that! Nice image too  [smiley=icqlite20.png]

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 03/17/24 at 03:27:49 These speakers dominated the listening session on Tuesday evening, we always spin vinyl but these were on when we entered the room and still on 4 hours later. Imaging and midrange balance is really perfect.   I can't hear anything lacking when compared to the House speakers that use that glorious midrange driver.   And since the midrange is being covered by the tweeter, it actually got faster.  I thought there would be a tradeoff, but there is not. My only complaint was that the bass weight was slightly heavy for my taste.  Just a tiny bit thick.  Still. So, tonight I decided to hook the speakers to the Zen TORII Mono's which are the appropriate amplification.  Up until now I have been using the Sarah 300B turned less than half way up.  More than enough power which was a nice surprise.  I have to have them at 3/4 on the house speakers to get to the same place. Virtually nothing really changed.  Overall the presentation is a touch tighter, but the bass is still just as it was before.  Then I remembered that the monos have a bias window switch that lets you go from EL34 type tubes, to KT88's.  When I created that, it was to be able to play around with more tubes than just KT88's.  And I remembered that some WE6CA7 replicas that I like quite a lot sounded a touch lean in the TORII Monos but otherwise glorious.   Light bulb went on!  This is why we love tubes right!  Don't like the sound of something, change it!  So I went and got those tubes, set them up in the TORII Monos and have been listening to my demo track library all evening. It's perfection.  Most of these tracks I never really heard sound right or sound this good.  The low bass is just so fast it is by far the best bass I have had in this room, or in any room for that matter.  It's visceral, open, warm, textured, articulate and deep as fk when the music takes it there. So, we are making some great progress here.  Audio Gods are pretty happy, apparently there was a bet about if I would get the idea about the red tubes... It is just amazing the transformation.  Believe it or not, there was three times when I was going to sell my Cambridge Edge NQ because for that kind of money I should never hear anything come out of it I don't like.  It was those nights when I forgot to turn on the Gizmo 2 on the Lii Headwreckers.  Anyway, thank God I didn't do that!   These speaker cabinets are just sick.  They have the same amount of bass as the full size Imperial somehow.  It's tighter.  Tight bass is like high compression on a motor.  So there you go, I went from making excuses for thick bass to praising how tight it is. And I will have to say this... another shocking lesson by the Audio Gods.  My whole life large horns like this have been challenging to use in smaller rooms without creating huge standing waves in the at least several bass frequencies.  These have been no different, or so I thought.  Boy it must be frustrating to design something and have the stooge using it not even realize how good it is. . For the first time these horns are giving me perfect bass in this room without missing holes and obnoxious peaks. I just sit in my chair in total amazement being able to hear it all with this kind of percussion.  The horn is like a piston that inflates your room and then sucks the air back out of it.  Box speakers and open baffles can't do that.  Nor can panels.  Nothing can.  Only large horns.  And once you get a taste of it, you'll be wrecked. Linearity in bass is rare.  Room acoustics make it so.   I will have to really ponder how this is possible that the DFH sitting in the same location suddenly lacks the holes and the peaks in the bass from the listening chair and everywhere else in the room and outside the room.  It's the same everywhere so far as I can tell.  This kind of linearity will make me live longer : )

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/17/24 at 13:21:32 Quote: Linearity in bass is rare.  Room acoustics make it so.  I will have to really ponder how this is possible that the DFH sitting in the same location suddenly lacks the holes and the peaks in the bass from the listening chair and everywhere else in the room and outside the room.  It's the same everywhere so far as I can tell.  This kind of linearity will make me live longer : ) Timing is everything. That is an absolute truth. Not an old adage...just a fact of our being. You must have hit a near perfect timed electron combination of parts in the latest implement of the HWs. Yesterday during a ride the sun was shining at a good angle late in the day to prompt me with an attempt at a better shot of the school bus. The pic below is the result. I kept it full size so it can be panned to appreciate on how well the bus blends with the scenery. It is to the right of the white camper and the window pane frames give it's stealth away. When the picture was snapped, I could hear a woman's voice in the back of my right ear stating, "That is a good shot." I turned to the right and there was this spry petite elderly women with a pretty smile who was walking her dog on the trail. We ended up having a very interesting conversation about longevity. She attributes her health with a paper route at age six just before WW2 ended! It set her life up with the need for activity. Her name was [smiley=icqlite27.png] Rose. It is of interest to note how the pine tree shadows Buffalo Bill's house at that time. Did not notice it until reviewing the day's pictures. [smiley=icqlite22.png]

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 03/18/24 at 14:42:34 This is a shot with the SLR of the falls. I did not use a tripod relying on built in lens stabilization and manual focus. Use of a golden filter at post editing brought out a bluish grey tint to the falls that begin at the very top center just under the crossing branches spreading out cumulating to impressive breath then cascading to the railroad bed in the photo below. This past Saturday I could actually hear the falls because the river was very high after torrid rains the night before. The tunnel leading to the bridge crossing the Youghiogheny River into Layton. A YouTube video cued showing a view of the spot I stood when shirtless Terry exited the bus. Terry is actually a photographer for the Pittsburgh Penguins and uses the bus storing fishing gear at his camp. At this cue spot, the content creator is panning as done in the movie. She shortly later shows panning of the actual footage in the movie. The falls are about 3/4 a mile up the railroad right of way. Some day! Enjoy.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMYwPK54R1k&t=1973s

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by 1stwattlife on 03/19/24 at 22:39:47 I just noticed this post... I read the first couple posts, but stopped so as not to color my own thoughts on the subject with the other comments. It has taken me a week to process and ponder how good this setup is... The Tuesday night listening experience was real. I know, I was there. I have stopped listening for subtle collisions in extreme moments of passages, distortion, incomplete tones and sounds that get even the most slightly trampled... none of these things ever happen. They just are not there. I have managed to maneuver past my disbelief of this phenomenon, in a way. I can at least try to wrap my head around the intense detail and expression of the speakers here in the shop and try to start putting words together to try to explain these things. It is fairly difficult because of the absolutely mind blowing at the amount of information hidden from us, usually [in the recordings we have been use to hearing in inferior environments and through inferior systems]. When none of your points of reference are in the top 20% of representations,  your 100% ends up just being a rebranded actual accounting of 50%. If you are lucky. This being said. I am surrounded by the 'Decware sound'. It is nice, but it means that you had better be bringing your "A" game as the competition is fierce! I am really just rambling at this point. I guess it is to set the stage... ...about these speakers... or really, the current driver compliment. Steve is not over-hyping this setup. It is kind of how I would imagine the few moments after summoning a genie and before he he grants you three wishes. The electronic music was incredible. Really, very, very, nice. But.. My moment came from Tori (bird) by The Nicolas Parent Trio. I am use to this album now. Months ago it came on randomly(?) in a listening session, and I really enjoyed it. So, I started playing it. In the car, at home on the old system and finally at home on the new (Decware) system. The later being the point in which I could actually enjoy it. It is nice, but nothing like Steve's listening room... I digress. This song is an acoustic guitar and a hand drum. Very simple. Very melodic. This setup does all the lovely things you all would expect from Decware. It does what I expect from Decware. It draws a picture so present and crystal clear with complete layers as if it were painted by Davinci. I refer to this as I had been told that to get the paintings of people correct, he painted every layer in what would be the cross sections of the human body. I may be mistaken, or misremembering.. but, this is what I am referring to. I can only imagine what some of the other incredible listening moments I have had in the past couple years would have sounded through this setup... maybe  I can revisit some of them, who knows (the SHADOW KNOWS!) I have signed up for another tour this evening... it's Tuesday... I will report back later. It should be a bit sooner this time. Cheers ;)

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by dank on 04/06/24 at 12:47:10 Can't help but observe that the Dayton 10" "Classic Woofer" from Parts Express for $45 seems VERY similar in specs to the Santori WO24P-4 at over 5 times the cost.  Seems to me that if a suitable 8 ohm silk dome tweeter were found, DC28FS-8?, the crossover could be designed for 8 ohm drivers rather than 4 ohm, and a very close driver complement could be had for about $250 rather than $1000.  Wondering how close it would be, and whether someone with slightly less than a golden ear could even tell the difference. Dan

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/08/24 at 00:42:09 At the lower power levels we are using these drivers at (say less than 10 watts) the $45 woofer could well sound better.  It happens a lot in this hobby.  The most fun I've had in speaker building was in the 1990's with the first imperial cabinets.  We made a removable baffle just like this model, and proceeded to try everything we could get our hands on, from 15 inch subs, to 3 inch full range drivers.  In every case the thrill was seeing how good it would sound in the large horn compared to whatever it originally came out of. Frankly, for late night listening... a pair of 3 watt paper cone boom box speakers with the cloth surround and 1/2 inch voice coil would have you shaking your head. : )

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Steve Deckert on 04/10/24 at 04:29:20 In continuation of the experience -- I had a strong urge to listen to the 6C33C mono blocks that I made several years ago... the Audio Gods have been bugging me to do it for about a month now.  Today was Tuesday, listening night, and I decided it would be fun to hear these amps again and see how they compare to the Sarah 300B that i have been listening to for the past two years...   It's as good or better. These amps are made from the Russian tubes used to regulate the voltage in guidance system of the nuclear ballistic missiles created to destroy America and other threats to the USSR at the time. This is the nuclear missile component that contains the 6C33C vacuum tube. Now... let's ask ourselves... why would Russia use a vacuum tube to regulate the voltage for this missile instead of solid state regulators? long pause... Anyway,  I love Russian people, but Governments of war I can do without, so as my sort of revolt against the man I used this vary tube to create audio bliss that would be considered to many to be polar opposite of Armageddon.   I am listening to it on the DFH95's and there is no shortage of power.  I can't even remember what the power is on this amp, but I did notice that it drops in distortion as it goes up in power.  100mA was about 2.8% similar to a Zen Triode 2 watt amp.  At 150mA it drops to less than 1/2% and of course the power goes up another watt or two. The sound is as glorious as I remember it, but now through these speakers against such high competition it still is holding it's own.   The reason I didn't immediately put this into production vs. a 300B amp is a long story that I will save for another time, but it boils down to the tube constantly drifting and the complexity of dealing with that in the normal unconventional Decware way made it so that only the seasoned tube amp customers would be able to own one.  Anyone new to tubs would crash and burn with this amp, just like a high speed catamaran on the ocean that can exceed 70 mph would crash almost instantly in the hands of a novice sailer. You can take a concept to the point of maximum fidelity given the variables, or maximum user friendliness at the expense of ultimate fidelity which is certainly more practical and marketable.  This amp I would not sell to anyone who is new to tubes.  That is why it was never developed any further, but I have to admit the sound is pretty insane, so maybe it will happen at some point down the road... who knows. Because the tubes drift continuously the bias has to be managed.  Most do this with complicated processors /automatic bias, but that is a problem in my world because I need to know if the tubes match and if they drift -- how much and on what time table.  Having a computer constantly adjust the bias without your knowledge means that you never know what is happening.  The sound changes with bias, so if I know the tube is drifting   and I hear a change in the sound, I need to be able to make that correlation.   To address this I made a nixi tube bias meter that shows you the bias of the tube in real time so you can watch it from across the room.  It shows the bias and also shows when it is too low and when it is too high.  In the picture it is showing both channels at 140 mA.   The only reason for posting this is to real time some of the behind the scene crap that happens around here : )

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by funch on 04/10/24 at 05:19:03 Craig Uthus (now retired) of Eddie Current sold an OTL headphone amp/pre amp using that tube. It's only available now on the used market. https://eddiecurrent.com/zana-deux/

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by Bottlehead on 04/10/24 at 06:26:03 Fluxion Audio out of Canada made one, too, but I’m not sure how they handled the drift. https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/amplification/review-fluxion-av-7-single-ended-6c33c-amplifier/ Randy

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by 1stwattlife on 04/11/24 at 00:36:42 The experience continues. But, with a new amp setup. About an hour before my work day ended I stepped away from my bench to stretch. I went outside for some fresh air and when I came back in I caught sight of these amps and got excited! I usually see these things out of the way on a top shelf. They sit upside down on the transformer. It caught my attention for that reason a while back. Just another of the oddities hiding around every other corner in the Dec-cave ( I am trying out nicknames for the shop, let me know if that sounds cool). So, needless to say seeing these things upright and lit up got my attention. I was starving after work, so I grabbed a burger and headed back to wait for 'the guys'. It did not take long for the crew to assemble and we were listening... The overall feel of these amps are very much like the 300B, IMO.  However, I will say at first impression I may prefer them. I would not know without a lot more time to listen and consider, but it would be in the running. The low end may be a hair on the viscous side,  but I think it may be enough umph for a steadfast push/pull lover to consider a single ended setup. The high end is amazing, really. These things shimmer all the way home. I feel like the super highs are clearer, but not sharp int he slightest. This thread is about the speaker setup... My wordiology always changes as I give my analytical brain time to catch up and share notes with my creative brain. What I almost always come up with is a combination of words that don't go together or negate each other. Thick, but transparent. Transparent, but bold. Soft, but impactful. Is this just me? I keep thinking this will pass.  I don't know. I gotta go... more later....

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by dank on 04/11/24 at 12:09:33 So, if these tubes drift, maybe that ballistic missile heading for Chicago would drift as far as Peoria?  Maybe you need to send the correction circuits to the Russians. That would be a good job:  on board ballistic missile bias adjuster.  I can think of a couple people who would be perfect for the job!  Coarse they would probable F it up and hit Kalamazoo.

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by 1stwattlife on 04/11/24 at 20:01:14 It is not uncommon for me to be in awe of the gear we listen to around the shop. I love it when new things are unveiled. Decware gear (at least to me) all seems to share some common attributes. From the Headwreckers to the Tube Tots and Tiny Radials they all deliver the immersive soundstage, dimensionality, and layers of detail that we all expect. Labels like "the best" just don't fit. It really comes down to the presentation of the experience and not the values of the experience. To relay a recent happening... Wednesday afternoon I had planned on staying after work for a bit to make this (these) post(s) because it is just so hard to stay focused on a topic at the house when the dirty dishes are just staring and taunting you... also on this afternoon we had a listening session scheduled that I was unaware of, but figured that I was quiet enough to not get in the way so I sat down to type away. Long story short this fellow played some sweet tunes and I interrupted him to see who it was while Steve had stepped out for a moment. It worked out well because not only did I get the artist saved in one of my lists to check out later, but I also met another awesome Decware customer. This makes my day! He is a very nice fellow and towards the end of my time at the shop for the day he had shared a little video and pics of the Dome in Vegas that he had just visited.  On my way home it dawned on me that the blended space bubble created in the listening room here really mimics this dome but for the ears. In front, behind, above below... It pretty much always happens, with the right songs. It is also always a comfort to witness peoples first impressions of the Decware systems. I sometimes feel like maybe I am crazy as the experience is so unique and visceral. Its not just me that freaks out. :) {this is just a little shout out to my new forum lurking buddy, I hope he signs up and starts posting, I like his perspective and love having budding audiophiles around to balance out all you troopers that have been in the know for decades} The only real way I can think of to speak on this new setup is in opposition to the Lii drivers and alternatively, the house speakers. It is the only comparison that I can think of that holds any water as the comparison is direct on both counts. I will need a fair bit more time listening. Hopefully I can wrap some more words around these comparisons in my mind and come up with a cohesive stance, but till then I will just stick with babbling and word salads. The Lii drivers do some things to a level that is incredible, and I really just keep going back to Steve's analogy of the muscle car as it fits the situation very well.  That would make this current setup something along the lines of a Cadillac. Great cars, but for very different reasons. The extra shocks in the rear end of the Cadillac give it a smooth ride, I equivocate this to two way driver set up. The low end is rich and warm (in the Decware sense, not in the 1970's Pioneer sense). What I am listening for moving forward is how good the brakes are, now that I have experienced the smooth powerful ride that is delivered by the two way setup. Not that the speed of this setup makes me think it is any slower, but just in that this is a marker that stuck out on the Lii drivers as notable, and so it makes a good comparison point. A fast, powerful car with soggy brakes would be a deal breaker in my world. I would definitely run into a wall or tree or some such. All I can really do is keep posting wordy posts that never really hit the points I would like to make until I can make sense of the time and space bending that routinely happens in the listening room (AudioDOME! "But it isn't a dome!'... 'Not yet!' winks and turns on an amp). I appreciated having all you guys out there to help me out and keep me in line if I get too far out there. In closing for this bit... these drivers sound like my ears are riding in a Cadillac. Smooth and lush yet sharply defined without piercing highs or overloaded bass. The extreme freqs dance delicately around a mid range that that is silky sooth. On the 6C33C amps the highs absolutely stole the show... until you start paying attention to best supporting actor in the low end. Pleasant throughout. I would remove myself from judging a competition between this setup and the corner horns, which are my favorite speakers to this day. Thank goodness they are totally different beasts and I wouldn't do that to myself. Entertaining thought though. Ok. I gotta get to work... Cheers everyone!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 04/12/24 at 12:36:31 Trying different amps with the new HW scheme. Hmmm...Will these supersede the HDTs?

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by 1stwattlife on 04/15/24 at 16:30:48 I find it hard to say that any one set would "surpass" another set of speakers in our lines. It is really just a matter of acoustic styling and refinement, but I see were you are going with that. Watching the story unfold in real time, in real life for me, and also through the forum posts that reveal so much that we don't say out loud while experiencing the awesomeness that keeps unfolding is just an amazing ride!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 04/16/24 at 10:20:19 Yes, Steve used the HDTs as a voicing tool in all his designs. I was really impressed with the HDTs on my last visit. Is the latest scheme of the HWs transcendental from the Upside Down?

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by 1stwattlife on 04/16/24 at 17:22:20 Hmmm... If you are referring to the tweeter location, I would assume that there is definitely something to it. I will be waiting for the definitive answer, but want to throw out an idea to see if I am on the right track... The full range driver and tweeter sit in a plate, and will stay placed together in the current setup which situates them for the time alignment needed for cohesive sound, per speaker. The plate can be rotated, changing the orientation of the drivers in relationship to the speaker baffle and room, but not to themselves, keeping the time alignment while at the same time being able to 'zero in' the presentation of the sound in the room relative more to reflections, versus massive changes in the initial waves directly from the baffle/ drivers... If I am even 10% right I will be proud of myself! lOl Now, we play the waiting game!!

Title: Re: Help! I'm having an experience! Post by JBzen on 04/17/24 at 12:01:27 Phil, My last sentence was a whimsical reference to the “Upside Down” parallel reality in the Netflix “Stranger Things” series. Love that series and the family teases me because of my ability to sit through a whole season in one sitting. Normally I do not watch TV at all except when tired, usually falling asleep, or catching up on current events. Anyhow, I like where you went with it. Your thoughts are valid and inline with how things can play out with speaker and driver positioning. In this situation, I think that using a box from a different design with new drivers limit the choice of drivers to fit the space allotted. The two drivers charts show a peak around 3k varying with off axis response. Placing the tweeters on the in or out position can change what is heard for better or worse. I suggest it might be better to place the plates with the tweeters on the inner most side if not already tried. As far as time alignment, most of that was perfected with the choice of crossover values, correcting the difference in depth of sound wave origin of the two drivers. From all the talk it seems like a home run was hit here! Cheers [smiley=beer.gif]

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