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Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp (Read 2164 times)
JMeader
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Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
05/09/23 at 16:34:26
 
I have a Torii Jr V2, it is remotely located on a high shelf near the ceiling.

Do tube amps in general warrant a small fan to keep temperatures down especially during the summer. We do have A/C but not sure how effective it is near the ceiling

Does higher temps hurt or hinder the amp performance

This is my first tube amp so no past experience to go on

Also do you leave tube amps on or turn them on and off as used

Thanks
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Lon
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #1 - 05/09/23 at 16:40:04
 
I've used tube amps for more than three decades and have to say that even in non-central-air Texas homes I had in the summer heat from the amps or the environment was not an issue. I've never had a fan blowing on one.

The best rule of thumb with tube amps is not to run them when you are not about. Leave them on when you are going to be using them, don't leave home with them powered up or ignore them completely when home. I can't say that I have always obeyed that rule, but it's a wise one. I have never had a failure with a tube amp that resulted in smoke or fire.
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CAJames
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #2 - 05/09/23 at 16:57:34
 
Quote:
Posted by: JMeader      Posted on: Today at 08:34:26

...Do tube amps in general warrant a small fan to keep temperatures down especially during the summer...


Agree with Lon you will be fine without a fan.

Quote:
Also do you leave tube amps on or turn them on and off as used


This is a little debatable. Every time you turn the amp on and off it stresses the tubes and shortens their life. And every minute you run the tubes shortens their life. So there is a trade off, and I've never seen a compelling argument for a "right answer" as to what is the optimum trade off, and in fact it almost certainly depends on the exact tubes you have. For me, if I'm not going to listen for an hour or so I turn off the amps. Without getting too far off topic there are some rectifier tubes, the common ones are the GZ34 aka 5AR4 and GZ32 aka 5V4 that "soft start" your amp and reduce the on/off cycle stress tilting the trade off more to turning the amp off vs. leaving it on. But the bottom line is you kinda need to figure out what works for you (and your tubes). FWIW in almost 40 years of tube amp ownership I've never had a tube failure result in smoke or fire either.

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Sean
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #3 - 05/09/23 at 18:54:25
 
I use a 80mm computer fan on my setup. My amp/phono pre sit on the middle shelf of my rack. I think I’ve got 6” between the trannies and the shelf above. The fan is near dead silent and I like the piece of mind it doesn’t allow heat to build up on the bottom side of the top shelf.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #4 - 05/09/23 at 19:11:31
 
Sean mentions a close in condition for the amps, and I can see how a small fan moving air away, preventing any build up of stationary heat, could be beneficial to the rest of the close parts of the system.

But, I have also noticed that my amps are more settled in and delicious sounding when they get kind of hot. Some parts you do not want to touch bare handed.

Other parts like the chassis can get a little hot, but not so hot you can't pick it up after it has been running all day. Mine are somewhat ventilated, open front, sides and back with almost a foot above the tubes before the upper shelving.

I do believe the best tube sounds are due in part to them running a little bit hot.
How hot can be a simple judgement call; you must decide.

.. and as already pointed out, definitely do not leave them unattended, ever.
With a foot above my amplifiers, which run the hottest, I have never had any inclination to place a fan on any of my tube gear.
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Lon
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #5 - 05/09/23 at 19:27:16
 
I agree that the longer they run and get warm the better they sound. I once ran amps for three days straight. . . never turning them off. . .and not only was there no incident in doing so (I was home the whole time, monitoring them when not listening to them or sleeping) but they sounded amazing. . .simply astonishing sound day by day.
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4krow
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #6 - 05/09/23 at 19:51:17
 
maybe they are more like engines... designed to be run hot. The associated parts have temp ratings too. Electrolytic capacitors will have a range of 85C-125C depending on the model that you choose. This is all up to the designer to build something that can run 24/7, not that I recommend it. True, tube amps tend to sound their best after a good warm up. I just got in a Manley Stingray (cuz' I just could NOT resist) and the sucker runs hot. All 12 tubes producing quite a lot of heat. But because everything is mounted top side, there isn't a problem. I have only owned the smaller Decware amps, so heat really wasn't much of a consideration.
I would NOT have a fan blowing directly on the tubes if that hasn't already been stated.
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Doug
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #7 - 05/09/23 at 20:13:21
 
Having owned a Torii Jr for a couple of years, I will say that it was the hottest running tube amp I’ve ever used, and I’ve used tube amps nearly exclusively for almost forty years.  The Jr gets hot enough that Steve has a special section in the owners manual talking about this very issue.  If the temperature of the amp reaches 140 degrees F, and it very well may reach temp at ceiling level, the amp’s sound will deteriorate.  I suggest pulling up the owners manual and reading through that section.

Happy listening!
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will
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #8 - 05/09/23 at 22:28:12
 
My Torii IV is in a teak cabinet, something over 6' high, ±5 wide, ±2' deep. The doors are not air tight, but relatively tight and the back is insulated (for sound) with hard fiber board inside, and pretty densely packed 3.5" wall fiberglass insulation between plaster wall and the cabinet back.

The bottom of the cab is pretty air tight. The lower shelves are not full depth but close, so not much air space around. This includes the shelf the Torii is on which is about belly button high for me. For air flow, the shelf above the Torii I made as narrow as I could for the gear on it. And it is somewhat narrower than the gear, as I am using a sort of tripod of feet under everything, the footer footprint less deep than the gear. It is about 1/2 the cabinet depth and somewhat centered front to back. So above the Torii is pretty open front and back. I also removed one board off the top back of the cabinet to let the interior heat out some. But all in all, I have way less circulation than a rack with ambient air space all around it.

Depending on the rectifiers I am using, they can be a few inches to ±4" from the narrow shelf just above them, but I recall when I was using 807s, the ceramic top adapter was close enough to be a hassle if I had the amp set in more under the top shelf. For a while I was concerned about this, but after checking time and time again, stopped thinking about it in this space anyway.

Right now the rectifiers and power tubes are close to the transformer heights and all are ±3.5" from the shallower shelf above. The part of the shelf closest to the hotter power and rectifier tubes is ±120°. The amp plate and transformers nearest tubes are ±120-130. The room is ± 76°, a warm day here with a lot of sun coming in windows, so the house is getting warm. I have drilled a bunch of ± 1/4 holes in the amp enclosure base, but not sure how much they do since there is no way for them to vent upward.

The system has been on for 7 hours or so. It is still in its sweeter sound range that comes after warming up.
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Sean
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #9 - 05/10/23 at 00:05:11
 
Seems I'm the odd one out! I'm going to remove the fan, I can use it to help move air behind my computer instead. Now if the Tite Bond glue melts on the upper shelf (butcher block) and drips down to coat my tubes with glue... Ha, I don't think it gets that hot under there.

I have one of these, it was my first dive into tubes about 10 yrs ago.



I ran it a few times with that glass top but it just seemed way too hot to keep using it.

Come to think of it, old tube consoles and jukeboxes had the amps mounted inside the enclosure, usually with nothing more than a few slits or holes in the enclosure for heat exhaust.
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will
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #10 - 05/10/23 at 00:50:36
 
That amp actually looks like a pretty cool idea for keeping you from touching tubes while ventilating tubes and transformers. With that all around space below the glass, and above, I would expect a chimney effect to be created from the heat of the tubes... cool air being drawn in the bottom, and hotter air going out the top.
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Kamran
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #11 - 05/10/23 at 01:10:28
 
I don’t use a fan as I am sensitive to any noise whatsoever and also Dennis has assured it can be left on without any issues (he leaves his on days at a time).

This has panned out in practice though I’ve never left the amo on overnight.   Most week days, I have it on for 5-6 hours typically.  On weekends, it stays on for 12-14  hours.  This allows me to pick and choose multiple windows to sneak in for a listen (at least theoretically). I’ll confess that sometimes, I will leave it on if I am going out for a couple of hours even if nobody is at home so I can come back to a nicely warmed up amp—though I do that sparingly.
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CAJames
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #12 - 05/10/23 at 03:38:32
 
I leave my amp(s) on overnight on occasion. I do it to run in new tubes and I did it when I was breaking in my UFOs. I plan on doing it when I get my UFO25s later this year. I turn them off when I wake up and give them a few hours to cool down. I usually turn them off when I leave the house, but that is more because of my “turn off the amps if you aren’t going to listen from an hour” policy then fear that something bad will happen. JMO/YMMV and all that.
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4krow
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #13 - 05/10/23 at 03:43:19
 
 I treat my amps like I do my welder. When you are done, there is a switch for that.

Actually, in the case of welders it may be just the opposite of an amp. When you are done, let it cool a bit with the fan running,, then you can use that switch.
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Dominick
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #14 - 05/10/23 at 12:06:03
 
Like the general consensus here has indicated….you probably have nothing to worry about.  If you had a fully sealed cabinet and were concerned….. even after opening the front doors…I guess you could try a small computer fan.  They tend to be very quiet.  

BUT….I would say you would be better served using the fan to pull hot air out as opposed to blowing air over the tubes to try and cool the unit. While I don’t know specifics…tubes do have an operating temperature, so trying to cool them too much could be potentially counterproductive.  

Dom
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graydavis
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Re: Is a Fan benificial for a tube amp
Reply #15 - 05/16/23 at 17:19:58
 
I read all comment and it's useful.
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