Forums - Wathen EL84 or 6P15P

Geno Seasoned Member Without music, life would be a mistake. Posts: 2000	Wathen EL84 or 6P15P 03/21/23 at 17:01:31 Hi guys. I have seen several positive reviews of the Wathen EL84. Has anyone tried their 6P15P? Be nice to have a direct comparison. I know their 6P15P has not been in their line up nearly as long. Thanks, Geno
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Lon

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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #1 - 03/21/23 at 19:02:12

Geno,

I've had the Wathen version since it was introduced.

The short answer is. . . I don't think they are necessarily better than the same tubes as Steve's, but slightly different. Different but adjusting with my ZROCK2 can make one sound the way the other does so. . . not a huge "improvement" in any way.

So. . . the real test will be how long they last, as they cost about three or so times what those from Steve did. . . if they last more than three times as long they'll be worth the money. We'll see.

It's really like the second strike for me with Wathen tubes, I'm far less enthralled with them than others are. I don't want to risk a third strike.

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JOMAN

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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #2 - 03/21/23 at 20:14:26

I've had the Wathen EL84-WC for quite some time. I have not compared the EL84-WC with the treated 6P15P-EV and after trying the EL84-WC I have no desire to. The non treated 6P15P were my tube of choice until I tried the EL84-WC.

After reading various posts about EL84's in general I've come to the conclusion that the tube designation, EL84 and the fact that it's a JJ tube, is a stumbling block and likely prevents ones from trying the EL84-WC.

If the treated 6P15P-EV is not much different from the non treated one and I cannot say that it is or isn't, I assure you that the EL84-WC definitely is. I say that because of these tubes actually changed the character and transparency of the sound in profound way. If the 6P15P were made of the same base metals as the EL84-WC I would expect that the difference between the treated and non treated 6P15P would be proportional. Not all metals and construction will respond to processing of any kind, cold or hot, in exactly the same manner with similar results. Hence the EL84-WC and the treated 6P15P-EV will likely have disproportional results - my opinion only!

The EL84-WC are the tubes that I started with first instead of the input tube and from there the rest were rolled and now all CryoTone tubes. As a result of my experience with the EL84-WC, E88CC-WC, 12AU7-WCL, 6SN7-WC and the 5AR4-WC (which actually beat out my Miniwatt GZ34 Metal Base) my CSP3-A was processed and my UFO25 is being processed as a write.

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Showme Seasoned Member Posts: 302	Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P Reply #3 - 03/21/23 at 21:21:42 I haven't seen Decware having any 6P15P tubes offered in what seems like to me quite awhile. Maybe he can't get them anymore so what are we left with?
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CAJames

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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #4 - 03/21/23 at 21:23:28

Quote:

Posted by: JOMAN Posted on: Today at 12:14:26

...As a result of my experience with the EL84-WC, E88CC-WC, 12AU7-WCL, 6SN7-WC and the 5AR4-WC (which actually beat out my Miniwatt GZ34 Metal Base) my CSP3-A was processed and my UFO25 is being processed as a write.

I guess we'll just have to start calling you Mr. Freeze...

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Lon

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"Love without
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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #5 - 03/21/23 at 21:36:50

Yes he seems out of stock right now. My guess is he sent a large portion of his stock to Wathen for their process (sort of Emperor's new clothes to me, but generally loved).

They're out there on eBay. I have a stockpile of about 25 pairs of these or the original SV83 that I have gotten there or on the board. . . I'm good for a while. Wink

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JOMAN Seasoned Member Posts: 763	Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P Reply #6 - 03/21/23 at 22:25:21 Quote: I guess we'll just have to start calling you Mr. Freeze... 👍 Does seem to fit....
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ArtMan

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Posts: 169

Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #7 - 03/22/23 at 18:01:19

I've tried both in my SE84UFO25 amp. My experience is the rectifier tube also has an effect on the sound of the tubes. The ZRock2 really helps to dial in the sound and is really helpful to achieve the best synergy. Take into context that all my tubes are Cyrotone tubes and I've found them necessary to achieve the best sound.

I first tried the EL84 tubes with the 5U4G rectifier and found the sound very rich in tone but the bottom end bothered me. It was like I wasn't getting the same resolution as I did in the other parts of the sound spectrum. The highs also sounded on the soft side. Switching to the 5AR4 rectifier was a more synergistic match, especially in the highs.

Later I tried the 6P15P cryo tubes with the 5U4G rectifier and found it had a better synergy than the EL84 tubes. I also tried the 5AR4 rectifier with the 6P15P tubes and found the highs too bright and the bass too light.

The 6P15P tubes had a similar sound to the non-cryo equivalent and the primary difference was the cryo tubes had another level of resolution that the stock ones did not have. I found the 5U4G rectifier and 6P15P tubes had a sound that was closer in my memory to live music.

It wasn't until I got the ZRock2 and upgraded to the Cryo 12AU7 tube and a Synergistic orange fuse that the sound really sounded alive. Recently, because of the ZRock2 that I again tried the 5AR4 with the 6P15P tubes and was able to get the two working together. After carefully dialed in on the ZRock did the highs become further extended and the ZRock allowed me to get the bass I wanted. My soundstage is now literally wall to wall. It is immense.

Getting the network card from Decware tamed the excessive highs with my Caintuck baffles and the Fast 15 drivers. With the ZRock2 able to dial in the balance between highs and lows, the 5AR4 rectifier and 6P15P power tubes has given me sound I neve expected to hear from a stereo system. It is a wonderful synergy and I recommend the combination.

I've recently added the Denafrips IRIS DDC to my system and it has brought down the noise floor even greater. It has a refinement that was, in retrospect, missing prior to adding the DDC. It has allowed me to verify my previous statements on the synergy between the rectifier and power tube combinations.

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JOMAN

Seasoned Member

Posts: 763

Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #8 - 03/23/23 at 19:37:21

Quote:

I've recently added the Denafrips IRIS DDC to my system and it has brought down the noise floor even greater. It has a refinement that was, in retrospect, missing prior to adding the DDC. It has allowed me to verify my previous statements on the synergy between the rectifier and power tube combinations.

I have had a similar experience and wanted to enlarge on this as I have experienced it in my recent changes to my source and cables. In the process I discovered that what I perceived as brightness coming from a tube(s) was in fact not at all coming from the tubes, regardless of the tubes being used.

Not knowing this caused me to roll tubes when I should have been looking elsewhere. The culprit was RF, EMI and power line contamination. As I implemented cables and components that are designed to address these issues the "brightness and any hardness/harshness" was eliminated entirely without rolling off the highs. In fact the improvement in the highs was entirely unexpected.

One example, of a number, is the dual Storm Reference cables between the Chord Hugo M Scaler and the Chord Qutest/Plixir LPS. These are designed to eliminate RF and the difference from the stock dual cables was an... ear opener and an education.

Next what I say, I say at the risk of being misunderstood... Another discovery, although I always knew it but never experienced it fully, was that as my source improved and the speakers could give enough headroom in the mids and lows I no longer needed the ZRock2. I am not suggesting that the ZRock2 is not a good component, I loved it when it was needed and would still recommend it.

This was not an easy decision. But as the system evolved I would flip from pass through to active and the preference was now with the ZRock2 in the pass through. As a result I'm going up one more level in the source.

In some systems the ZRock2 will be a must and I also preferred the CryoTone 12AU7. But don't underestimate the effect that RF, EMI and power line contamination can have. It often comes across as enhanced resolution in the highs along with brightness and hardness. It may not be the tubes.

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Lon

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"Love without
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worthless!"
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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #9 - 03/23/23 at 19:45:10

Noise is everywhere! I agree that addressing it systemwide is very important. I have attacked it in many ways. The area that I have become most recently aware of is by incorporating galvanic isolation between components.My latest transport and DAC have galvanic isolation between them, and I can even ground or lift the inputs and outputs and it has brought an even more pronounced level of micro-detail into the presentation, not unlike the Hazen Grid mod brings in those components Steve has been able to incorporate that into.

Some tubes though. . . are brighter than others. Wink

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Steve Deckert

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Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P
Reply #10 - 03/24/23 at 03:08:34

Quote:

I haven't seen Decware having any 6P15P tubes offered in what seems like to me quite awhile. Maybe he can't get them anymore so what are we left with?

Knowing how easy it is to find them in small quantities on eBay for a customer, I have been hoarding my inventory to cover the amps on our build sheet until the war and sanctions against Russia end.

Steve

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Showme Seasoned Member Posts: 302	Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P Reply #11 - 03/24/23 at 19:17:04 I guess it’s easy if you want to buy them from Ukraine or Romania. Also do they need to match? I’m not sure since when they were available from you I didn’t ask knowing that it would be addressed if necessary.
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Tony Seasoned Member "Life without ..music is inconceivable" A.Einsteln Posts: 621	Re: Wathen EL84 or 6P15P Reply #12 - 03/24/23 at 19:36:41 Hey Showme, I think I have 3 or 4 pairs of 6P15Ps, which is more than I need. PM me if you are interested. Tony
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