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WAAAAY Late To The Party (Read 1433 times)
Bottlehead
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WAAAAY Late To The Party
03/19/23 at 03:41:28
 
Well, here they are. The "Big Ass Betsys" (Darth Vader Edition). Only took me three years from the time that I bought the solid exterior door, but that's what taking care of family and moving from one state to another and then to a third will do for you.

They've got about 175 hours on them now, and while they have smoothed out some, I still wouldn't call the sound refined. Room-filling, yes. Refined, no. I have hope for them going forward, but they seem to be very "beamy" (if that's a word) at this point in the breakin process. There is some center image when I sit in the sweet spot, but you don't have to get very far off the narrow focus directly in front of the driver for the sound to leave you behind. I'm used to a huge soundstage with open-baffle speakers, so I'm hoping that they just need more time. I have them 9 feet apart center to center, and I sit 9 feet away. I haven't played with toe-in/toe-out yet, and I'm hoping that helps as well.

My room is no prize, either. While it has good volume, it's almost square (17&1/2 x 19), with an 8 foot ceiling. But it's the best room for audio that I have at the moment, so it will have to do. I suppose that my next move would be some ceiling treatment, but I'm not sure what would be best. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for listening to me ramble,
Randy
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #1 - 03/19/23 at 03:43:59
 
Two coats black, 4 coats polyurethane.
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #2 - 03/19/23 at 03:46:32
 
7 degree tilt.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #3 - 03/19/23 at 14:34:08
 
So are you unsatisfied with the Betsys after all that work? When you say "beamy" do you mean glare? Why would you not have mounted them from the rear? I did and it made them more refined.
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MINI TORII & ZROCK2 both anniversaried; 'Lil Audio F-15; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580s
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bramar
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #4 - 03/19/23 at 15:26:31
 
By “beamy” he’s referring to a negative phenomenon that all single driver configurations cause: the need to painfully set up the speakers perfectly for correct soundstaging with the secondary permanent negative phenomenon of the need to keep one’s “head in a vice” and keep movement to a minimum while listening. The listening field is very narrow.

It’s one of the main reasons I learned to hate my single driver Omega towers and sold them.

Brad
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #5 - 03/19/23 at 15:30:44
 
Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Tell me more about the door you used?
Is your room set up with the speakers on the longer wall or shorter of the two walls? I move my room around a lot and the F15s seem to do better on the longer wall with more space on the sides. My room is 14x28 and they sound best centered on the 28’ wall, about 9 ft apart and 9 ft to my ear. The sweet spot is much wider this way. When set up on the short wall just tipping my head will affect the image.
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jec3504
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #6 - 03/19/23 at 16:20:32
 
That doesn't sound anything like my experience with the F15s. Moved mine around in my space. Didn't use a laser powered GPS. Just went by feel. They will draw you in. Sort of self-leveling. Off-axis listening is not a problem. I would agree with Mannytheseacow moving them around might help. Good luck hope you can find some Improvement.
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jec3504
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #7 - 03/19/23 at 16:52:50
 
Nice build! They look great.
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #8 - 03/19/23 at 21:09:01
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. From the responses, I realize that I was too critical of the sound that I'm getting. Several of those who have these drivers have commented on the long breakin period, so I was prepared for that. And, as I said, they have already gotten better. I definitely do not feel like my head is in a vice to enjoy the sound. I personally have never had the "sounds good straight out of the box" experience with any speaker that I've ever owned, and I wasn't expecting these to be an exception.

RR, I wouldn't say that I'm disappointed with these drivers, no. I think that I'm probably right where I expected to be at this point - lots of bass for a full ranger, good midrange, and hoping for a little more smoothing out on the uppers, and a continuing widening of the soundstage.  As for why I didn't mount the drivers from the rear, these were meant to be my "working" Big Ass Betsys, my "practice" Big Ass Betsys. I have another pair of these drivers that were going to be my "dress" Big Ass Betsys - made with some oak panels that I have. Those I was planning to mount from the rear. But I have realized that I need to be a little more realistic about my time and energy for these projects. Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of a home remodeling project that seems to just go on and on with no end in sight, or maybe it's because I'll hit the big 7-0 next month, but I'm running out of gas. I have other projects that I'd like to get to. So I'll be selling the other pair of F-15s to someone who wants to take a crack at these.

Randy
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #9 - 03/19/23 at 21:20:32
 
Manny, the door was a fire-rated, solid-core exterior door with a hardwood skin on either face. It was 84" tall x 36" wide x 1.75" thick, and cost me $80.00. (It was just a slab, with no recesses cut for hinges or doorknobs). It's VERY heavy and VERY dense, so I don't think that unwanted resonance will be a problem for me.

As for moving them to the long wall, I may try that at some point, although I wouldn't expect it to make as much difference due to the almost equal dimensions front to back and side to side in my room compared to yours.

Randy
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #10 - 03/19/23 at 21:25:44
 
jec, thanks for the kind words of appreciation. They are built to last, with the bases cut out of a 4x12 beam, and through-bolted to the baffle with 4" lag bolts. They will definitely outlast me.

Randy
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #11 - 03/20/23 at 01:30:50
 
Well, this is embarrassing. I have been using my new Willsenton R300 amp to break in the Big Ass Betsys, looking to kill two birds with one stone. I have read the reviews, which all said to change out the amp's tube compliment for the best sound. I was waiting for 200 hours to do that, but after reading all the comments from forum members here, I started thinking that maybe at least part of the suboptimal sound that I was getting might be due to the tubes. So I switched them all out with NOS, except for the 300Bs, which are slightly broken in Golden Lions. After just a couple of hours, things smoothed out by quite a bit. Way better, actually. Then I put my LTA Microzotl preamp into the chain, and set the volume on the amp at 3/4. What a difference! Much fuller, richer sound. And all without tweaking speaker positioning at all. So I would say that most of the things that I had been waiting to improve with longer breakin hours weren't related to the breakin period at all. Live and learn (and enjoy music), I guess.

Thanks for all the input,
Randy
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ArtMan
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #12 - 03/20/23 at 19:01:25
 
I have the Betsy baffles with the LIi Audo Fast 15 drivers and have found the somewhat ideal positioning in my room.

You will get the widest soundstage by pointing the left speaker a little outside your right shoulder seating position and the right speaker outside your left shoulder. Try it and see if it helps with your soundstage as well as greatly loosen the vise grip effect.

I've also found raising the front of the baffles somewhere in the vicinity of around 1 and 1/2 inches (7 and 1/2 degrees). According to Steve, it should sound the same in the sitting position as well as standing up just behind the seating position.  I hope this helps.
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Acer Laptop, Curious USB cable, Holo Audio May L2 DAC, ZRock 2, SE84UFO25, Fast 15 Network, Caintuck Audio Fast 15, Decware DSR3S/DHC2/ZFOCUS cables, Swiss Digital Fuse Boxes, Cryotone tubes (5AR4-WC, EL84-WC X 2, ECC88-WC, 0A3-WC X 2, 0D3-WC, 12AU7-WCL)
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Bottlehead
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Re: WAAAAY Late To The Party
Reply #13 - 03/22/23 at 06:39:35
 
Thanks, Artman. Right now I'm really enjoying the sound that I'm getting, but I'll keep your positioning in mind when I'm ready to tweak again. For the record, I don't have the head in a vise sound. Far from it. I have had speakers that you couldn't move even a couple of inches from the sweet spot without a loss of imaging. The F15s are not that. I think that a poor choice of words is responsible for the misunderstanding of my initial review. I would like to formally retract the word "beamy" to describe the sound that I'm getting - especially since I improved my amp's output with the new tube compliment, and put the LTA preamp into the chain. Much improved top to bottom, and even more room-filling than before.

Also, for the record, if you look at my pictures, the one taken from the side shows that my baffle is angled back 7 degrees as part of the design, so no need for me to raise the legs in the front.

Thanks, Randy
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