Ok Fellow members, I need you to help me think through this.

I currently have my gear on a 15 amp outlet (both source and amp). Amp is connected directly to wall and the other receptacle is tied to an entry level AQ power conditioner.  This circuit is daisy chained to at least 3 other outlets, one of which is my TV and another one to my AVR and networking gear.  In two years, I’ve never tripped a circuit.  So there isn’t necessarily a a pain point.  Typically, when I am running two channel, both my TV and AVR are on standby.

I am investigating the dedicated 20 amp circuit route for my 2 channel and have a bunch of questions:

1) Considering I’ve never tripped my 15 amp daisy chained circuit with my current load, does it make sense to add just one dedicated 20 amp line for the amp and source gear or two dedicated 20 amp circuits—one for a single ended tube amp and one for source gear (DAC/Streamer/Preamp/Future ZROCK2).

2) I have heard conflicting opinions on this but the code says to use 12 Awg or higher.  A lot of forum folks and Paul from PS Audio says go with 10 awg.  However, I spoke to 3 different dealers yesterday and every single one of them Pooh poo’d the idea of going the 10 awg route and said to use 12.  Any opinions on this?

3) If I do end up opting for two dedicated 20 amp circuits (irrespective of gauge), how important is it to keep the wires far apart from each other? I’ve heard that the wires need to be at least a foot away from each other to minimize any EMI/RFI.   How critical is it to keep the wires the same length?

4) Do I need to also ensure any of the wires is at least a foot away from my in wall Ethernet cable?

5) My breaker box is conveniently placed at the back of my listening room/basement and the contractor who also does electrical work was saying that the easiest method would be to route the wires from the breaker along the top or bottom of my side walls (not inside the walls—rather outside) to the termination point in the front of the room.  This way, we don’t have to worry about demo’ing the sheet rock for an internal placement and keeping the dedicated 20 amp circuit or circuits next to the 15 amp outlet.  Does it make any sense to have a sub-panel dedicated to 2 channel placed in the front of the room and just running wires from there? It would shorten the distance but not sure if it’s worth the added cost and or sonic benefit?

I may have more questions, but wanted to get juices flowing.  

For now, I’ve purchased two hospital grade outlets from Shunyata for this project but could probably return one.  Even if I don’t get the dedicated line or lines, I do at least want to change to the higher grade receptacle.

Kamran,

Well written post and questions. Thank you. It is easier to answer from this rather than having to ask a bunch of questions in reply to your post.

So, ok, I am with your electrician with the idea of running the wire the way that he suggested. IMO, I would want it to be run in metal conduit as a shield for the AC wire and just better wearability. Might even be code in your area.
Secondly, Given the fact that you are running low current equipment (as a system) there is really no need for two 20 amp circuits. If in fact you still want to go that way now is the time to make the decision, because of increased cost later. This also applies to the gauge wire to be used, although again, given your circumstances, 12 ga. wouldn't be a sin.
The fact that you haven't tripped a breaker in your present AC source isn't the reason to choose a dedicated line in the first place. What it accomplishes is just that, a dedicated run, that will not be as influenced by other outlets/appliances/noise from other AC lines. The noise part is only true to a point, but worth mentioning.
What I see as the one of the most important aspects of this action is the reduction of connections between your breaker box and the audio system.
In short, no, I do not recommend a sub panel in this case.
Yes, it would be best if you can maintain distance from ethernet cables as well as other electrical cables. If you are going to run two separate 20 amp circuits (which I doubt you will even have future use for), then it will be a challenge to keep them separated, unless of course you have money to burn.
Ask your electrician to humor you into having the 20 amp breaker close to the main buss as possible. When I worked for the phone company running big circuits, we used the connections closest to the main buss as possible when noise might be a concern.
One other thing. It may be wise to have a 20 amp. GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter? I don't remember) breaker installed for the sake of safety. It's serves better in that location than downstream towards the audio system.
So, yes, I did everything listed above and a lot more when I rewired my old house. It started from the power pole and ended at each outlet. Would do it again, no question about it.

Paul2 and 4krow—Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful responses.  One common item between both your posts was the addition of a new pole outside your house.  I was under the impression that single family house owners don’t necessarily lay claim to poles carrying electricity to their house—that they belong to the utility company and that we don’t have any power over them  (no pun intended) to have a pole replaced. In other words, we control our destiny inside the house vs. PSE&G controls it outside the house.  Curious, what benefit does a new pole provide?

Yea the point I was trying to make when I said that I never trippped the 15 amp circuit was to say that even with the current load—Denon AVR, Networking Gear, PlayStation, Philips Hue lighting hub, TV, DAC, Streamer, Preamp, Class A Tube Amp, all daisy chained on the same circuit, I’ve never had an issue overloading the circuit.  That said, I do realize the importance of having a direct/dedicated line that will negate any interference/noise these other (non 2 channel) gear may be introducing in to the system.

The electrician rolled his eyes when I said that I preferred 10 awg wire.  He said that was overkill.  I was confident in that stand until I called 3 independent Hifi dealers and they all said the same thing—go for 12 awg.  I am just thinking out loud, if I were to drop the idea of a second dedicated line because of all the complication of routing and keeping wires equidistant from the breaker and away from other lines, then does it make sense to make up the loss by actually sticking with 10 awg.  In other words, does it make sense to go all out, if I am only concentrating on one run.  I get the sense that electricians dislike working with 10 awg wires, because its a PITA to deal with but if it’s not too much extra over 12 awg, I wonder if it’s something to consider.  Besides Paul from PS Audio though, I can’t recall any other audiophile being so adamant about a 10 awg run.

I’ve also heard some people talk about separate earth/ground rods for 2 channel.  Is that a thing or does the existing ground rod sufficient to tap in to?

Not sure I can add much, but I did use 10awg and a 20 amp breaker when I installed my dedicated line. I had the wire already, so why not use it.

Before I did the dedicated line I was getting pops when the bathroom fan upstairs turned on or off, the AC compressor - pop, furnace, pop. I added a Furman and it tamed it. Since my box is behind the wall near where I wanted the outlet it wasn't a long run and I had also had access to the back of the wall.  I ran the line and added a PS port port outlet. No more noise.

Within the last year I upgraded power cables. Well, I was about 5' short to the outlet. Dammit. Opened the outlet box and made an extension whip out of more 10awg. I used a PVC jacket to cover the wire and mounted the outlet next to the rack. This can be easily undone if we move. When I added the whip I also added a $35 Monosaudio outlet from Amazon. I can't tell a difference between it and the PS Power Port.

10awg IS a pain to work with and the electrician may be keeping cost in consideration when shaking his head. If I didn't have the 10awg, would I have bought it? Probably, since I only needed maybe 15' of it for the run.

For me and the equipment I had/have, anything more than adding a dedicated line was overkill in my head. Everyone's situation is different.

4krow—your thorough feedback with excellent examples is highly appreciated.  You have convinced me to stick with 12 ga. Wire.  Paul’s motivations for 10 ga. Wire made a lot of sense when you put it that way.  I definitely want to do my research and educate myself before messing with the room again and your feedback has been invaluable. Hopefully, it’s also useful to others who might be in the same boat.

As for rods, I was just curious since I noticed a number of audiophiles recommending it while also admitting that it might be illegal.  Looks like they didn’t care.  Again, more of a curiosity than anything else. Not touching that with a 10 ft. Pole.

Thinking out loud—I wonder if there is a more acoustically optimal way to shield the 12 ga. Wire inside the room vs. using a metal conduit.  I wonder if it would cause unwanted reflections…

JOMAN—what a coincidence!

For the past 24 hrs, I’ve been obsessing over the Puritan Audio conditioner. I first noticed it as a teaser in Hi-Fi Cave’s YT video and then went down a rabbit hole of looking at their live demos from various trade shows over the past couple of years and was utterly gobsmacked at the difference I was seeing.  Then I also saw the video from Steve Hoffman who said that it was one of the best purchases he’s made in the past decade or so and that it outperformed his previous Power Plant, which is like 4x the price.  It was the only solution that completely eliminated his transformer hum.  Notable mention was the video from OCD Mickey, who as jaded as he is about 2 channel gear, was also speechless when he tested it in his rig.

Add to that two excellent reviews from Moon Audio and Stereotimes, I’m just flabbergasted that more ppl aren’t shouting the brands’ name from the rooftops.

As I was trying to get my ducks in a row for a dedicated circuit, I was thinking that maybe I won’t need such a device after a dedicated run. You just absolved me of that notion. I was thinking of e-mailing the company to confirm that it would work on a 20 amp circuit, but looks like that is the case.

Didn’t understand the point about the Decware cables not working. Can you elaborate? How will the new cables help?

Thanks for sharing Dominick—would love to know more when you get a chance. I’m estimating a run of at least 25ft. Just from the back of the room (where the panel is) to the front wall is 17 ft.

Oh….one more point I forgot to mention……I run an Earthcalm whole home EMF protector which is based off the Schumann Resonance frequency cycles.  It’s an older version….but I have been using this way before my Decware system.  

This is a whole another topic of conversation that needs its own discussion….but I can say I noticed some major changes in the way my body responded after it was installed.  I firmly believe this has a direct correlation to my audio system.  

Dom

Yes, that’s exactly what I read in a review that anything attached to that receptacle to which the PSM 156 is plugged into also gets cleaned up. Though, I’ve also heard Shunyata Noise Reduction power cords having the same affect.

Speaking of Shunyata, they definitely have the street cred and the tech to probably go toe to toe with Puritan but at the expense of astronomically high prices. I do have the Venom 10 NR saved in my hifi shark searches looking for a deal to come by.

This is such a fascinating topic. So much to explore.

I might have gotten lucky when I bought this home last year.
The house was built in 2002 and we have a 200Amp service.
There are dedicated lines with 20A breakers for each room and in some cases multiples, for instance the kitchen has three not counting the 220V service for the range. One is shared with outdoor GFCIs, though.

The family "great room" has four circuits including plugs, fans and lighting options. Believe me, it took a while to map this shit out when I first moved in. I had sticky notes everywhere trying to figure out what did what!

My little sunroom turned into sound room has two, but one has a ceiling fan and the backdoor lighting fixture on it. The other circuit is dedicated to the wall outlets, but an additional could be a benefit, I suppose.

There is a dedicated line added long ago to power the out of date Direct TV sat system that once lived here. I wonder if that circuit could be re-routed to my room as a second line for pure wall power.

Still, I would not say the service is clean, even though there are no poles or above ground transformers anywhere. All the cabling is underground in this little 'burg, except for some above ground access points for cable or old dead AT&T stuff and such.

If I was going to "add" something it might be a better grounding scheme than what we have going on here.

I wonder if there has been much thought to this "arm" of the electrical circuitry we have to live with.

I manage with just my older power filter, as long as I keep my sensitive cables about two feet away from the "concrete" grounding circuit in my room.
We've all seen the little two or three inch cable lifters, but it actually takes  a couple more squares of distance to make the difference I need from the grounding circuit, here.

I have not tried things without the Kleenline, but then, I have not done anything without it for about forty years.

Paul2,

 Yes, I remember reading about Mr. Fremer's AC system before and after the total rebuild in Stereophile magazine. As expected, I do have a thought or two about this. It bothers me that Mr. Fremer has had an electrical system that was so poor for years to audition and review many audio products over this time. His corroded connections and just about everything else was near disaster for 'clean power! What if Car &Driver tested a sports car on a dirt road?
 Each electrical system may have a special need here or there, mostly referring to ground. I am not going to go into this very deep except to say that each situation has a 'right way' to be dealt with. This is mostly in consideration of the soil conditions, maybe humidity, and even the water table.   Where I live is what we call a high desert. Not so hot but moisture/precipitation is low. About 7 inches a year but usually less. The soil in my part of the town is a sandy loam, meaning it won't hold moisture as well as say a clay type soil. Ok, so what did I do about my situation? It was a fortunate thing that I have a water well very near to the house. It is 25 feet deep, with a VERY heavy iron pipe extending the whole length. Pretty obvious to anyone interested in a great ground to 'tap' into this pipe as the ultimate ground rod. The bottom of the pipe likely sits in water as there is a very large irrigation ditch that runs by our house maybe 50 yards away. By now you get my point. I really don't worry about the quality of the ground that I have. This is, of course, in addition to the Power Company's 10 foot long copper ground rod (which, by the way, they couldn't pound all the way down so about 3 feet of it is parallel to the surface of the ground). Not good, but that is what you have to watch for every freaking step of the way if you aren't doing it yourself.
Whew. Another long winded response, yet in order to be clear, you have to 'make clear'.

I have had variable power voltage and variable noise for years, sometimes pretty good, and sometimes not. Usually it runs for longer periods of time rather than day and night being starkly different (like many seem to suffer). I have my own transformer here, but it shares utility power with 16 other homes and their individual transformers on the power company "loop" that covers our road.

I am using three power "filter" setups, all of them fine tuned with some better parts and having really nice cords feeding them, those cables fine tuned for the work too. Those that were not purpose built and therefore tuned to musical transparency made the originals a lot more resolving, fast, and musical... and the benefits add up.

It starts with a Mapleshade receptacle, not in your face bold sounding, or warm, or anything (like many audio plugs), but the most transparent and resolving receptacle I have tried here. Then there is a 500 watt Chinese production balanced power supply that is really nicely made. The balanced transformer feeds a PSA P5 used mainly for amps, but a few other things. I got it for voltage regulation, the specific voltage really effecting the sound of my Decware amp's tones and densities, especially if the swings are more than one volt, or if the voltage is running high, like 123. I have an Audio Brickwall straight into the Mapleshade receptacle for sources. I also have some mineral noise adjusters scattered around, and built into cables, and a couple filter plugs, one Shunyata for sources, and one Furutech in the P5.

None of this solved the transformer noise from my Decware, improved in some cases, but more effective here was putting properly tuned-to-sound caps across the AC of the amps.

That said, I don't think this place is that bad in terms of negative sound from noise other than transformer noise... Back in the day anyway, it sounded pretty resolving without any of my power treatment relative to transparency and revelation. But it all helps when fine tuned for sure here. Especially in subtler areas it is notably better at allowing the finer nuanced information, and with stable/selectable voltage and phase from the P5, it leads to consistent and nicely tunable sound.

For periods (like now) I can hardly hear transformer hum except near the amps, and a little in the speakers with ear right there, but really not an issue for me. But sometimes, it can get loud enough to bug me. Probably hyper sensitive as it never seems bad enough to do notable damage to the musical experience, but in these noisier periods, for movies where the amps are almost maxed, during silence, I can just pick it up at the seat... irritating to me.

I have had tubes, and ground loops effect noise too, so it can be a pain to sort. But speaking of ground, I have been thinking my noise variability is perhaps largely due to dryness! I live in high desert also, and if the ground rod for the house gets dry, it seems then my noise can go up, sometimes notably. It took me a long time to consider "watering" the ground rod area as a first step, but I started to notice that in drier periods with the nearby hose bib not leaking, if it rained or snowed for a spell, or if we had a leak at the irrigation bib, it would seem fine.... Not conclusive, but I think a good guess, so I need to test the theory next time it gets more noisy... start by watering the ground!

It may be this power and room, but I have a number of shielded power cables and a number that are not, those not shielded having geometry and passive filtering designed for noise cancelation and some RF/EMF protections. Last time I tried, I could not hear notable (noise) differences between these "unshielded" and shielded cables. I don't doubt some rooms might need heavier atmospheric noise shielding, just not my experience here, and I do have wired internet, with ethernet to fiber to ethernet filtering... no wifi in the house knowingly.

I have not explored 12 versus 10 gauge on an independent line as this is an adobe house and hard to add hidden wire runs. Also seeming to have pretty good power relatively speaking keeps me lazier. And my power cleaning setup has gotten really good!

But one day I expect I will try to make a 10 gauge cryo'd dedicated run... leading me to.....

One thing that occurs to me reading this thread is that it seems perhaps a little more focussed on decisions based on current/voltage tech over sound?... and these may or may not correlate. I have explored a lot of cable designs, and gauge always influences the sound whether ICs, power cables, or interior hookup wires for amp power or signal... all with my low AC power consuming system and gear.... I am miles from combined gear rated specs even approaching my audio plug's wire gauge or receptacle specs...

And this is not to say 10 might conclusively sound better than 12 gauge... but it implies to me that it could, and that it likely would effect the sound one way or another even if way overkill for AC current and voltage. Better or worse sound, can't say. With power cables I have made, a little too big gauge-wise, and all else the same, the sound gets thicker and darker. Too light gauge, leaner with less punch... And right in the middle is always a nice balance all round.

But why would I use 10 gauge here??? A guy who I learned a lot from over time has some of the most refined and discerning listening methods and skillsets I have run across, and he has heard and set up lots and lots of high end gear and systems (one of the Tranquility DAC developers). Last I asked him, he preferred 10 gauge cryo'd for a dedicated run... He AB tests everything before making assumptions or declarations, usually many times, and typically gets corroboration from his small clan of other audio heads he trusts to hear balances and subtle information exceptionally well... As far as I know he too is not close maxing out the ratings for 10 gauge runs. Just a little more for the thought pot.

I wired a large leather shop with 10 ga. It was awful, but this case, the runs were long and I convinced the owner that this was the right thing to do given the length. Having said that there are receptacles that the wire doesn't have to be wound around a screw/bolt, and that is half the battle. [To yet again be clear about this, I am NOT talking about those cheapo outlets that have a hole that stick the wire into but are NOT tightened by a screw, they should be illegal) If it is wound around like that, you actually feel the outlet grieve (I mean to say I am surprised that it did not mechanically fail given the small space that everything has to be put back into). So, if you go this route, at least get a decent sized electrical box to bend this evil solid conductor. Just my opinion. And then probably there are holes in the back of the outlet where you can stick the wire straight in and those same screws will tighten down on that. I highly recommend this procedure rather than trying to get them around a screw that they barely fit anyway. IME, a tip about flattening the wire before it is put into the hole on the back of the outlet golden. You simply compress the 10 ga. with smooth jawed pliers so that there is greater contact in the outlet. That way you won't be trying compress the fat wire with those screws in the outlet. I would go so far as to say that no harm would be done by using TWO outlets in a 4 plex box instead of the regular single. Weird that I say that? Consider this>>> when you try clamp only one wire in an outlet hole, the pressure is uneven on one side. By adding another wire (that goes to the second outlet in the same box) there is a wire on BOTH sides of the clamping nut, allowing the screw thread to pull evenly. This will work even better since you have already partially flattened the 10 ga. wire to begin with. Just had to say something about this before you pull the trigger. I have nothing against 10 ga. in theory, but unless you actually worked with it, you can't know what a demon it can be, sometimes ending up in a compromised connection.
FWIW, even though the wires that worked at the phone company offices were stranded, each strand was probably about 16 ga. resulting in just one conductor being the size of your thumb and much larger when needed. There was a very particular practice for ALL connections that we made.

Thanks, 4krow, no rush to pull the trigger until I get all this figured out.  This has been enlightening.  If the 10 ga. Wires can be flattened to fit in to the outlet, that gives me hope.

Will: I’m excited that you’re familiar with VH Audio and can back up their expertise/integrity.  I actually was planning on speaking with them as well. I filled out their contact form hours ago and hoping to get in touch with them tomorrow.

Thanks Andy. I been following this thread wondering if anyone was going to hit on the real root of needs for a heavier gauge wire to supply line voltage to audio amps. Also trying to figure on the best way to word it. The article link you posted is a must read for anyone who wants to understand the demands that an amp puts on the power supply!



John

One additional comment from me FWIW...

For the most part I fully agree with what was stated in the paper and have tried to do as much as is possible and I also agree on the matter of attention to the connections at all junctures.

But I STRONGLY disagree with the first statement in the following quote:

Quote:


I fully agree with the following statements that a power conditioner must be non current limiting and must not add to or shape the signal in any manner.

The reason for a power conditioner is the same, in part, as is the reason for going to shielded cables as are the DHC3 and DHC2.  There are other factors as well.

This has become such a great thread.  I have some updates:

Communicated with Chris from VHAudio.  His responses were enlightening and I will recreate it here for the benefit of all:

Q: Assuming you see no problems with the wires being routed outside the interior wall vs. inside?  

No problem, not as long as your electrician says it’s OK, and meets code.

Q: How important is it for both wires to be of the same length?

Not very important UNLESS you will be operating monobloc amps with one amp on each circuit. I like to maintain symmetry for each L & R channel. Otherwise, the different lengths won’t matter much...

Q: How important is it for both wires to be at least a foot apart so as not to introduce unwanted  RFI/EMI?

The magnetic fields decrease logarithmically with distance, so just a few inches is fine. In many homes, the lines are all bundled together, so it’s not a huge deal...

Q: Will the 10 gauge wire accommodate some bending? As you can see, that side wall is not a straight shot to the front of the room.  We will need to navigate multiple bends before we reach the front.

Yes, although I’d try to avoid an acute bend like an “L” and go with a more gentle bendlike a “J”

Hopefully, this is helpful for other enthusiasts….

Separately, I got a confirmation from Shunyata that their outlets are actually designed with 10 awg in mind so making a clean connection without pigtailing isn’t an issue.

I am meeting with a licensed electrician (hopefully, this weekend). I explained to him what I was trying to do and even sent him the MSB Article and VH Audio’s website so he can see what wire I want to order.  

More to come!

I see your jumping in head over heels Kamran Your enthusiasm brings back reminiscent memories of discoveries made when embarking on my journey in audio.

4krow's concerns are legit when it comes to wiring 10 gauge wire using 20 amp devices. It may be a tuff sale for your electrican to go along with. He may want to charge a premium for this or pass. Two 12 gauge romex loosely twisted, if space permits, could be used that would give a 9 gauge net. I ran 3 circuits to the back of my audio equipment. One is a home run for the audio. The other two were parallel circuits running down the walls feeding outlets in the Charoit. I use the two to plug in the TV and non related equipment(read electrical noisy devices like wall warts and such).

I really don't see any purpose of cryo treated romex wiring. But if one wants to spend the extra and it gives peace of mind

Good luck!

John

I should have noted that my home run circuit is 40' of 12 gauge romex. 10 gauge would help bring that 4v drop down guite a bit. Go with 10 gauge!

John

Going out on a limb here. Do they make Romex with multiple conductors, i.e. specifically 4 12 ga. conductors and 1 14 ga. for earth ground? Probably be pretty fat, but still easier to pull than separate Romex in the same conduit. But then I guess we were also discussing the running of two different Romex cables in two different conduits.
Don't mean to muddy the waters here, just trying to consider each option. The multi-conductor Romex would allow for twisting of the conductors in groups of two, leaving one conductor for earth ground. And as mentioned above, the result is actually a 9 ga. result.
Since the space heater experiment is showing continuous current as opposed to peak current, can they be compared? I do get that peak current of a large amplifier would be comparable, but am not so convinced using a 'flea watt' amp. I suppose it would also be dependent on the total system draw.  This is where I would first check every connected component of the system to add up total (not necessarily peak) amperage and then proceed with a decision from there.
Knowing me though, if I had the choice to begin with, I would just choose the 10 ga. and be done with it. I build furniture the same way, and seemingly everything else as well.

John,

Point taken. My thinking about such things extends to most of the important issues in life. I remember getting the eye roll from a contractor helping me build my fence many years ago. Every post was to be steel pipe and every post was to have 3 bags of concrete poured into a 2 ft deep hole. Steel hangers were welded by me on every post to support the wooden stringers that were lag screwed to every hanger, and on it went like that. 14 years later, the fence still looks like new, without a single post (out of 34) out of plumb.
 So, it is not a hard job to convince me to 'overbuild'.

Nail on the head there, Will.

I always listen first to everything. Especially considering any changes I've made. What I hear is what drives my next path/move.

Sometimes I try to measure to either confirm or identify what I hear, but again, only a part of the whole story can be revealed by measuring.
Measurements can never tell the "whole" truth. They can help you along the way to finding some truths, but nothing more than that.

After reading through that article about upgrading wire gauge, if I was to re-route and re-purpose that unused run of cable and breaker that almost reaches my room with 12ga, I would need to upgrade to 6ga, in keeping with their theory, for the length of run from my breaker box.
I can not imagine any electrical professional accepting that level of upgrade for a pair of two watt amps and a 1kW amp as necessary or as a job to take on.

I guess that idea is dead from the start.

JBz, thanks for that in depth analysis. What I see in your graph is what some of us old farts call clipping, although minor, still tells a big story.

All this talk added another project to a ever growing list. One that is well overdue. 50' of 12/2 WG was just ordered from Amazon. $30 cheaper then Home Depot. Turns out I installed Legrand surface mount boxes in the Charoit. HD does stock Legrand metal wire molding in 10' lenghts. One of those will be all that is needed to do the upgrade.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Legrand-Wiremold-500-Series-10-ft-Metal-Surface-Race...

Will definitely post on measured results!

John

Met with a highly recommended licensed electrician yesterday.  I had sent him the MSB article in advance and VH Audio’s website, but he didn’t read them because there was some confusion at first.  He was insistent that he would need to use 10/3 wire but when I mentioned that both lines need to be on the same phase, he said, oh ok—that changes things.  10/2 wire will work.  He did differ from the first contractor/electrician in routing the wires at the bottom of the wall all the way to the front vs. the contractor who wanted to route it along the top (I was gravitating towards the bottom anyways, which is good).  He said he would also use wiremold to hide the wires.  He showed me (without measuring) which leg was less noisy based on the load on each leg—one was markedly less loaded then the other—hence less noisy.  He also recommended I get a 40 ft length vs. 30 as I was estimating.  There will be some left over he said, but it’s better to be on the safe side.  Didn’t know about silver tungsten breakers but he was sure he could get some from the electrical supply house. I might just try to research that myself vs. leaving it up t him.

He also doesn’t come cheap.  Basically, with all the materials and labor, it will come out to a price of a ZROCK2 with the mods.  I have a bathroom project also running simultaneously—so I need to put some time and $$ in that as well (and the contractor who is finishing the bathroom project is the one I spoke to first since he does electrical too but I don’t have a quote from him yet).  However, I am happy that I have thoroughly researched the project and know exactly how I am going to go about it.  Going in to this, I had no idea that I could get my own Cryo’d romex, and now I do (and yes, it’s a piece of mind thing).  I already have the the outlets, and will start ordering the wire soon, and try to get the breakers too.  This has been such a great thread that really helped me out and I hope it also helps others embarking on a similar journey.

Your lucky she did not slap you up the side of the head. They easily pick up on those programmed responses.

Power conditioning is the real deal. Decware's approach is the VR tube insertion that does help but only part of a complete audio power cleaning system.

John