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300B Tubes (Read 29514 times)
Lon
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300B Tubes
12/17/22 at 18:49:26
 
There are so many options! It will be interesting to see which tubes owners will use with this amp--I'd be interested in hearing plans and impressions. I know this is jumping the gun a bit, but it won't be too long before the first production amp ships next year, maybe three months or so away perhaps (just a guess).

I plan on hopefully using the Decware discount for a pair of the Western Electric 300B tubes, and wish to receive the amp with the "no tubes" option. In the meantime I got eye fatigue reading over and over about 300B tubes available and decided to order a significantly discounted "demo" pair of the Grade A Classic 300B in blue glass from Sophia Electric. This tube was developed it seems to work in conjunction with the Aqua 274B rectifier that I truly adore and have on hand. . . so I'm going to use these to season the amp and hopefully they will sound very good. Reviews seem positive.

I'm set for the other tubes in the amp as well. I have a few pairs of 6N6P tubes I can roll, including a red-tipped pair that sound very good, as well as many other tubes I can try in those spots, and many compatible rectifiers (I'll start with the Aqua 274B) and 12AU7A types (I'm definitely going to try my best 6085 tubes). I also have different types and brands of the possible voltage regulation tubes to try out.
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Doug
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #1 - 12/17/22 at 22:54:11
 
Lon, I used a pair of Sophia Electric 2.5 volt 300B’s in my Cary 2A3SE mono blocks for nearly two years, and they created the most enjoyable sound quality I experienced with those amps.  I had the 2A3 monos for around 15 years and used many NOS and modern 2A3 tubes, but the Sophias easily bested them all.  

I’ll also add this; the WE300B’s I’m now using are phenomenal tubes.  My 300B amp came with Genalex Gold Lions and the WE’s make the Gold Lions sound like they are defective.  

I would like to try a pair of Sophias, but I have really over spent the past few years, and I need to take a purchasing break.  My reduced retirement income, along with bad financial decisions the past 40 years, has taken it’s toll on my current purchasing power.

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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 24865
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #2 - 12/18/22 at 00:20:05
 
Good to know about the Sophia Electrics Doug. Thanks for weighing in on those and the WE300B you are using now. I hear you about the financial situations. I had a big window of spending opportunity 13 to 8 years ago or so and it has slowly closed. I made some nice purchasing decisions then that have stood me well since. . . but I have to be careful now--I too am on a fixed income for a bit til an annuity opens it up a little wider of a fix.

Here's hoping that you can get the tubes you want in time.

It seems that as I prioritize music and music equipment and don't feed other vices and have a frugal and supportive wife I have a blessed enough life, hope it can last.
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Lon
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #3 - 12/22/22 at 14:35:07
 
Got the Sophia Electric 300B Classic in blue glass in yesterday.

If only I had an amp to plug them in to! Impressive looking tubes. I now have a full complement of tubes to install in the amp when it arrives. I can rest a bit now. Wink This sort of thing is important to me. . . one of the few ways I'm OCD.

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Tony
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #4 - 12/22/22 at 15:23:53
 

This sort of thing is important to me. . . one of the few ways I'm OCD.

I think a lot of us can relate to that sentiment.  

Congrats Lon!  Once they find their place, let us know how they and Sarah sound!
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #5 - 12/22/22 at 15:26:00
 
Yes, probably most of us are OCD in some ways about our components.

Will do Tony. I'm hoping this thread will be full of impressions from others as well of the tubes they are using in the 300B amp.
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Carlsbad
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Posts: 202
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #6 - 01/07/23 at 16:26:39
 
I just put my amp order in.  I have another 300b amp in transit to me that I'll play with and evaluate some tubes.  I also have a custom amp being built so by the time Syrah is build I may not need her but you have to keep your options open.

I'll be doing some 300b tube evalations and will post my results.  The amp is a Tektron amp from italy, point to point, manual bias.  Should be pretty good as an interim.  However, if it is significantly inferior to the ZMA, it won't get much listneing time....one day at a time.

Jerry

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Doug
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Posts: 297
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #7 - 01/15/23 at 05:48:18
 
Following in Lon’s footsteps, I picked up a pair of Sophia Electric Classic 300B blue glass tubes at 50% off regular price. This was a demo pair that had around 100 hours of use.  Fortunately, Sue allowed me to have a one year warranty on this perfectly matched Grade A pair for a very small up charge.

The package landed on my front porch late this morning.  I brought them inside, let them come up to room temperature, removed my Western Electrics, and inserted the Sophia’s.  

My main system has been completely shut down for the past two weeks—which is a somewhat complicated and troubling story—so it took a couple of hours for all the components to fully warm up and come into their own again.  

Once the system settled in, I began listening, and boy oh boy, these Sophias are really great tubes.  I am a little surprised at just how good they are, but I shouldn’t be, because I have used a variety of Sophia power, pre, and rectifier tubes across the past decade and a half, and I have never used one that I didn’t absolutely love.  After 8 hours of listening to all kinds of music today, and knowing that these tubes will sound better and better over the coming weeks, I’m ready to say that these Sophias are serious contenders for the best 300B tubes that money can buy.  They are extremely impressive tubes!

I’ll make some direct comparisons to the Western Electrics in the coming days, but day one has shown that the Sophia Classics are the real deal.
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Lon
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Posts: 24865
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #8 - 01/15/23 at 11:33:08
 
Doug,

Wow! That is what I was hoping you would find and divulge. I am eager to try out my own pair of the Classic 300B and this doesn't make the wait easier. In time I hope to have a pair of WE300B as well, and it seems as if these will be two good tubes to have! I'm eager to read your comparisons. Thanks for sharing!
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Tony
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #9 - 01/15/23 at 14:32:58
 
Doug said:

Following in Lon’s footsteps, I picked up a pair of Sophia Electric Classic 300B blue glass tubes at 50% off regular price.

Hi  Doug,

I am trying to find out more about how you and Lon were able to make that purchase.  I logged on to the website https://sophiaelectric.com/ and found a form to enquire.  Is that the correct website?  Did you deal with a specific individual?  I have plenty of time, but I was curious.

Thanks
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Paul2
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #10 - 01/15/23 at 14:46:02
 
Tony,  I did the same and ordered a pair.  Easy-peasy!
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Tony
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #11 - 01/15/23 at 14:59:42
 
Thanks for the info, Paul.  

So do I have the correct website - is that the one you used?  Did you speak with someone or do it all online?

Tony
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Paul2
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #12 - 01/15/23 at 15:24:42
 
You have the right site.

Just ordered online.

Over the years I have found that the advise Lon gives on tubes is better than most others.
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Lon
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #13 - 01/15/23 at 17:05:41
 
At the moment it appears they do not have demo pairs to purchase:

https://sophiaelectric.com/products/sophia-electric-grade-a-classic-300b-tubes

Perhaps Paul got the last pair.

It's possible they will have some in the future--when I ordered mine was the first time I noticed they were offering demo pairs.

I bought mine due to my experience with Sophia Electric and the fact that they are designed to work well with the Aqua 274B which I really do like.
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Doug
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #14 - 01/15/23 at 19:10:50
 
From time to time Sophia offers demo tubes, as well as tubes with strange manufacturing defects.  Besides the demo 300B pair I just picked up, I have  purchased two heavily discounted 274B rectifiers that both had the same interesting defect—a small piece of loose glass in the tube.  

With Sophia special deals, it’s one of those situations where you have to keep an eye on their website.  It’s not like trying to buy a used ZROCK2 that will be gone in a matter of minutes, but checking the Sophia website every few days is advisable.
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Doug
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #15 - 01/23/23 at 02:00:12
 
Day 9 Thoughts on Sophia Electric Classic 300B Blue Glass Tubes

In the most general sense, I find the Sophia Classics to produce a more full bodied sound than the Western Electrics. The Sophias have all the detail of the WE’s, but they are richer across the entire frequency range. The Sophias also present a slightly more forward sound stage, which makes them seem, at times, a tiny bit aggressive compared to the WE’s.

The Sophias definitely have a stronger low end than the WE’s, and in my system, on some recordings, it can be a little too much of a good thing.  On many recordings, however, it is a fantastic asset.

The full bodied sound might be characterized as greater density, which I have found to be very welcomed in recordings of singers.  As I type, a recording of Mark Padmore singing Handel arias is playing, and Mark sounds far more like a real person singing down stairs in my listening room than he has with the WE’s.  This is caused by the fullness, the density, the richness that the Sophias bring to the music.  In recordings of sopranos, this is especially apparent.

I also love how the Sophias amplify trumpets, trombones, and cymbals.  Metal bodied instruments just sound more real with the Sophias, and again, this is due to the increased density of the sound.  No one would ever describe the Sophias as sounding thin or weak.

The tendency toward aggressiveness that was mentioned above is likely the main attribute of the Sophias that makes many recordings sound more like live music than those same recordings do with the Western Electrics. But once again, on some recordings this tendency can be too much of a good thing.

By contrast, overall, I hear the WE’s as being incomparably airy, light, fast, highly resolving, and mysteriously beautiful.  And yes, there is without doubt magical and mystical beauty with the WE300B tubes that simply cannot be put into words.  After nine months with the WE’s I can state without hesitation that they have never made any recording sound unpleasant, but on occasion recordings can sound a little light or thin.

The WE’s and the Sophia Classics are each wonderful sounding tubes in their own ways.  I consider myself extremely fortunate to have experienced both.  When it comes to the Decware Sarah, I have a hunch that the Sophias will be counted among the favorite 300B tubes for many.


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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 24865
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #16 - 01/23/23 at 02:04:33
 
I was thinking of asking you for some impressions Doug, thanks for weighing in.

Exciting! I am glad that I went for that demo pair and can honestly say. . . I can't wait to hear them! Seems as if a person is fortunate to have the Sophias AND the WE300B. . .I want to be in that club as well and hopefully will be this year. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
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BlackBess
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #17 - 01/23/23 at 05:09:36
 
Out of the box I’d have to say the Wathen Cryotone 300B tubes sound pretty nice. I’ll have to investigate further.


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Kamran
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #18 - 02/23/23 at 02:41:14
 
Lon and Doug—you guys are killing me. My god, the Sophia 300b’s look so beautiful—it’s going to be friggin hard to resist if those looks are married with an equally beautiful sound.  Not necessarily a surprising turn of events, given how Lon and I are huge fans of their 274b rectifier.

I was looking at their site yesterday and their new Classic II Grade A matched pair is $999.  While it’s comparatively cheaper then the WE, the latter gives you a 5 year warranty.  That’s the only thing that bugs me about the Sophia’s…that you pay close to top dollar with significantly less warranty.  

Might be worth an e-mail to Sue to gauge if she has any demo pairs on hand…
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Doug
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #19 - 02/25/23 at 18:59:36
 
I should have my Western Electric 300B’s back at home this coming week, and I can’t wait to re-install them in my amp.  However, I must again state that the Sophia blue glass Classic 300B’s are great music makers.  This is especially true, seeing that they will be serving as back-up tubes to the WE300B’s.

Considering price, warranty, and sound quality, the Western Electrics are the clear winner.  Even though I have been using various Sophia tubes for many years, and have never used one that I didn’t love, I would not have paid a grand for a pair of their Classic 300B’s.  Half price? Yes!  Full price? No.  

Oh, yeah, the beauty of the blue glass is very special!  Like their 274B Aqua……killer looks!
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Lon
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #20 - 02/25/23 at 19:07:19
 
I hope it gets there today. Congrats!
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 24865
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #21 - 02/25/23 at 19:20:41
 
Glad that the tubes are coming back and hope that the analysis and solution is true and that you have smooth sailing going forward.

Your evaluation is not making it easy for me to wait to hear my Sophia Electric Classic 300B blue glass tubes in action!
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #22 - 03/19/23 at 01:32:59
 
There's an ad on US Audio Mart for a pair of Sophia Electric Royal Princess II tubes, asking $1200. What interests me is the mention of preference to Takatsugi (think he meant Takatsuki) 300B tubes in the description. Though the list on Takatsuki 300Bs is $2500 I see several vendors selling for $1700. I have no experience with ANY 300B tubes so am wondering if anyone has compared these to WE, Sophias or Cryotones. Things to ponder while I wait for the Sarah 300B...

Mike

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Lon
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Posts: 24865
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #23 - 03/19/23 at 01:36:56
 
Mike, if you search the forum you'll see that Steve and Randy evaluated these tubes in the 300B Development thread and compared to a few other tubes (they really liked these) and that C.A. James has used these tubes and reviewed them favorably. There are 20 posts mentioning this tube in the forums.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #24 - 03/19/23 at 01:40:43
 
Caught me being lazy Lon! I'll check the threads - Thanks for the info!
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CAJames
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #25 - 03/19/23 at 01:44:18
 
Yes, I'm a big fan of the Takatsuki 300B. I got mine here for $1700:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/takatsuki-new-vacuum-tubes.html

The consensus is they don't have the "midrange magic" of the WE, but are more transparent and dynamic and linear from the low bass to the high treble.
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Lon
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #26 - 03/19/23 at 01:44:53
 
I'm lazy too, no shame or judgment! Smiley But using the search function will bring them up easy peasy.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #27 - 03/19/23 at 01:51:52
 
Right you are, looking at CA James assessment now in fact. I had always used the basic search utility without signing in. The search after logging in, maybe the same as the advanced search is much better.
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Posts: 25
Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #28 - 03/19/23 at 02:27:35
 
Thanks for the 300B comparison posts CA James. Very useful indeed! I have the Sarah ordered with "Steve picked" tubes including the 300Bs so am looking for a high end set to have on hand. Knowing me I will get one or the other, probably the Takatsuki, but then wondering about the WE will order those too. When the money runs out I'll have to stop.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #29 - 03/19/23 at 03:39:23
 
Happy to help. I'm mostly just passing along the collected wisdom of internet friends who have more 300B tubes than I have socks. They pointed me to the Takatsuki and while I have no regrets everyone has their own taste and in fact the Elrog 300B is more popular than WE and Takatsuki combined with this crew. I've posted this elsewhere but the best comparison I've seen for the 3 premium 300B brands goes like this:

WE = Etta James
Taka = Ella Fitzgerald
Elrog = Whitney Houston

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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #30 - 03/24/23 at 13:14:34
 
I am starting with a matched pair of WE300Bs and the full Cryotone bundle (https://wathenspeakers.com/store/p133/Decware_CryoTone_Tube_Bundle_for_the_Zen_
Sarah%2C_SEWE300B.html) which includes:

One 12AU7-WCL with Matched Sections;
Matched Pair ECC88-WC;
Three Matched 0C2-WC Voltage Regulators;
One 5AR4-WC; and
Matched Pair 300B-WC.

I really don't anticipate rolling very much. My goal is to find the sound I'm looking for, then spend my time listening. I am buying a small collection of NOS, Chinese, and perhaps Sophia tubes to keep around for backups.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #31 - 03/24/23 at 13:23:37
 
You are going to have some real fun ahead! Keep us posted.

Not being as much a Wathen fan as others I have different tubes waiting for the SEWE300B when it hits here. I'm eager to try the 6N6P that Steve likes and have a really nice pair of those on hand, and I also have great NOS 12AU7 and 6922 types on hand, and am eager to try out the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and Sophia Electric Classic 300B tubes.

The waiting is the hardest part. Especially when you have all you need to get it lit up! I'll live vicariously through you early owners and your reports.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #32 - 03/27/23 at 19:46:09
 
Aren’t all the top tier tubes great? More like ice cream flavors. Some like one others like another. However, the price to sample the different flavors is prohibitive for some.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #33 - 03/27/23 at 20:23:26
 
Quote:
Posted by: Showme      Posted on: Today at 11:46:09

Aren’t all the top tier tubes great? More like ice cream flavors.


Sure, at one level. But if I'm paying $1000+ for a cone I'm going to make damn sure I'm getting chocolate, not strawberry or vanilla.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #34 - 03/27/23 at 20:33:04
 
And how do you do that? I wish you’d send me your Takatsuki’s for a taste.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #35 - 03/27/23 at 21:21:40
 
What's your preference: midrange magic? Detail and dynamics? or something in between, some of both?
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #36 - 03/27/23 at 22:05:16
 
To tell you the truth I’m pretty happy with the WE300’s I have. I would guess midrange and detail are the most appealing qualities to me. High end maybe lost on me due to age. I guess I’m just curious about what tube offers “more” of the 300 mystique. Newly dabbling in it. Your input will be appreciated.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #37 - 03/27/23 at 22:29:36
 
By all accounts the WE is the last word in "300B mystique" so IMO you got it right. For me, I knew I wanted a little less mystique and a little more transparency and linearity so I was steered to the Takatsuki and I'm very happy. Of course I wonder about a WE, but not enough to actually do anything about it.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #38 - 03/27/23 at 22:49:27
 
I kinda thought I might be in the “right” place with the WE but like you in reverse the Takatsuki intrigued me. Thanks. Still might buy a pair as backup.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #39 - 03/29/23 at 03:23:05
 
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #40 - 03/29/23 at 10:07:22
 
Interesting article. I like how some politics played a role in acquisition of tooling for the upcoming WE 12AX7 producrion.
This link in the article may be of interest for tube rollers:

https://youtu.be/VaO7MmghoqA

Parallels my thoughts on tube rolling. The summary of the producer makes it clear that it is the amp designers mixture of parts that set the tone - not tubes. Tube swapping changes volume and very little tone if any.

John
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #41 - 03/29/23 at 12:43:23
 
Glenn Fricker is one of the very last people I would take the advice of when it comes to the sound quality differences of tubes. The simple fact that he's been a metal/hard rock musician for decades makes me wonder if he has any hearing left to perform critical listening. And the fact that he seems more intent on being a naysayer and vocally controversial in the metal production business, rather than an authority in tube amplification in audiophile systems.

Even if he was correct (and that's a huge "if") about tubes' ability to alter sound quality in guitar amplification...what the hell does that have to do with my stereo system? Nothing. Are we to believe that all of the tube rollers in the world are wrong, but only he is correct?
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #42 - 03/29/23 at 13:02:29
 
Ghostship,

It seems your statements are formed by conjecture.

Glenn's summary is based on his actual A/B comparison.

My ears with Samsung phone speakers confirms his test.

When I get downstairs and listen in the Charoit, I may change my position.

For now IMO, tube rolling is a lazy man's way of voicing a system.

Best

John
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #43 - 03/30/23 at 05:26:37
 
Anyone planning to use the Elrog ER-300B for their Sarah? Does the amp come with the promised 10% off WE coupon? How about Emission Labs? Inquiring minds want to know. I will say though, both the Wathen & WE 300B tubes will be tough to beat. IMHO Ralph

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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #44 - 03/30/23 at 05:36:22
 
From JBZen: "For now IMO, tube rolling is a lazy man's way of voicing a system."

Wow. I am amazed anyone with a good system and room can allow ideology or a video feed through a phone define "reality" about this. Really John, are you just trying to get us worked up here? Smiley

I didn't even bother to listen to the video you linked as the idea is so far out of my range of experience and reality.

I don't see how anyone with healthy perception and a good system/room can separate the voicing of parts and design from tubes, where tubes, by design, define so much of the sound. After all my careful modifications, my amps are more richened by more tubes, making them all sound better than before, and making more useful. But man, it is so clear here when I change any tube, and whether the change is beneficial to the whole or not, that I can't even believe I am reading this from you. I would say the opposite. If you want really refined sound in a good tube system/room, refining a system and room with tube exploration is a very powerful voicing tool.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #45 - 03/30/23 at 10:27:56
 
I think if you order the amp with tubes from Steve you get the coupon for the WE tubes. I'm not sure if you order the amp without tubes that you will get the coupon.

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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #46 - 03/30/23 at 10:30:15
 
+1 Will. I just didn't bother to respond.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #47 - 03/30/23 at 10:34:59
 
Gosh no Will. It crossed my mind that might happen when Post was tapped but not intended.

It could be the result of my limited time spent on tube rolling and that it is more desirable for me to dwell in other avenues of system refinement before spending time with tubes.

My “lazy man” phrase stemmed from conversations on this forum about different tubes by more or less the same group of folks. Seems to me it is all that is discussed by those making me wonder on what their system consists of or more so on how it is set up. Set up in a haphazard way that a tube can make so much difference? One after another those tubes change that much in the sound leads me to believe that volume might be a strong contributing factor for the change. Different tubes and tolerances between manufactures can contribute to slightly different gains which can be perceived as dark, bright, etc.

I just got done listening to Glenn’s video down here in the Chariot. The single pre tube A/B does have noticeable change in tone that was not detected with the phone speakers. When he goes into multiple pre tubes it is much harder to detect any change. Power tubes was very much the same as multiple pres.

The video’s audio was a bit overdriven. I used an I-pad with chrome cast via the Cambridge CXNv2 without the Zrock.

John
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #48 - 03/30/23 at 11:12:58
 
I myself am not even going to watch the video--I generally don't watch video on youtube.

If a system is resolving enough, the effects of tubes are powerful, and not just "volume" based.
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Re: 300B Tubes
Reply #49 - 03/30/23 at 11:36:41
 
Lon,

My questions would be:

Why the need to constantly change tubes?

Can not one be content with the different sounds the artist creates?
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