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Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room (Read 210 times)
GroovySauce
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Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
09/06/22 at 20:07:32
 
Iíve wanted to have a well done dedicated music room for almost 20 years. I recently bought my new home. One of the criteria was to have a space to build an out building for a dedicated music room. The other option was to find a house with a suitable room to dedicate to music.

I found a home in a wonderful area. It had an addition put on that is 19.5í x 27.5í with a vaulted ceiling 8-10í. This will become my dedicated music room.



Almost all of the boxes are related to the music.

The house came with an AC window unit in the wall. Not only did I not want that for a multitude of reasons. It was extremely loud! I had a mini split installed and removed the window unit.

There are a few items such as the SVS sub and Epos K3 speakers that are not going to end up in this room.

Moving all the equipment, CDs and especially LPs was a lot of work. Transferring the LPs from the moving boxes to the Mapleshade racks look a lot longer than I expected. It also didnít help that some how my records got all mixed up and are no longer alphabetized, Iím at a loss at how that happened. Once the area was cleared it was time to start setting up the stereo.




Late afternoon a semi truck pulled up to drop off 3 crates of acoustic treatment from Acoustic Fields.




As I was speaking with the delivery driver my neighbor stopped over and said he has a skid steer with a fork lift attachment. He moved the crates up my drive so I didnít have as much distance to cover with the HEAVY treatment. All of the neighbors Iíve met have been truly fantastic people.



The diffusers and absorbers are on casters. They are shipped upside down. Tilting them over onto the casters was sketchy by myself. The diffusers have activated carbon in the wells to aid in low frequency absorption. Each diffuser weighs 325 pounds. The ďlightĒ Carbon Panels weigh 200 pounds.



Even in the large room the space was getting tight really quick. The three black rectangles with the two vertical wood pieces are for the ceiling. Once I get all the treatment in and situated they are the last to be installed. The ceiling fan will be removed. The wiring from the fan will power lights that will sit on top of the ceiling CPA absorbers to give a pleasant reflected light from the ceiling.

Iím not sure what the future of the smaller diffuser will be. Once I get the room setup Iíll play around with room tuning and see if they will stay or not.

I was becoming exhausted moving all of the treatment myself. I called up a buddy to help me move the 6 ACDA-10 units. The ACDA-10 units weight 230 pounds each. Flipping them over without having them crash down the other direction was too scary a chance after doing the QDA-17s solo.

The next day I started laying out the stereo components.





After I laid everything out I applied Caig Deoxit Gold 100 on all the connections.



My buddy stopped over and quickly the kitchen was filled with treatment. He could only stay for a few minutes, once he left it was an easy job to dust them off and wheel them into the music room.




A lot of records still need homes.





Monday a truck comes with 12 more Carbon Panels (200 pounds each) which will be lining the side walls.

Total room treatment will be 6 ACDA-10, 4 QDA-17 Diffusers, 14 Carbon Panels, 3 CPA (Ceiling Perforated Absorbers) and how ever much of the Acoustic Foam that is needed for fine tuning. I have 5+ XL sheets on the way.

A few other things will be happening to the room in the next few months.

Dedicated power cable runs with grain oriented cable. Along with re-configuring the panel and optimizing the ground. KingRex is over seeing this.

The walls will have Retro Foam injected. Retro Foam is a non expanding foam insulation. A small hole is cut into the wall then itís injected in the walls. It fills around the existing insulation and seals all the cracks. Benefits include increased R value of the wall, stops drafts and it offers a bit of noise reduction of higher frequencies.

The ceiling will also receive increased insulation.

The windows will have inserts made. Iíll make them out of plywood, MLV and foam. They will hopefully reduce some of the outside noise. Currently the cicadas causing most of noise. They will also stop the windows from vibrating which is quite loud on some tracks when listening loud.

The room will be repainted.

Area rug(s) will be placed. This is more visual and to stop the listening chair from moving around. I'll make a frame and elevate panels on the floor.

The listening position and speakers will be elevated. 8-10Ē is the current estimate.

2 GR-Research Triple-Threat open baffle servo controlled subwoofers on the way.

Ethernet and other non major component cables will be routed and out of the way for a clean look.

The Speakers are currently on soft gliders. Once all the treatment is in the speaker and listening position will be fine tuned.

Currently the speakers are 9í8Ē from the front wall and 4í11Ē center to side wall. 9í7Ē center to center and 11í5Ē to listening position. This all will change Iím sure.

The all important questionÖ How does it sound? or not sound?

Iíll keep this brief as next week Iíll be getting the second half of the acoustic treatment.

Walking into the room is relaxing. It would be interesting to wear a heart rate monitor and see if heart rate lowers a bit once in the room. I bet it does.

The room is alive! this is a tricky one to convey. The room has a purpose, it knows itís special and it wants to perform. Like a puppy we are creating a relationship. I will nurture and feed it. It in return will offer eternal excitement and surprise. This isnít a city puppy that is kept in side and starved for exercise and companionship. This is a dog that will be out hiking in the mountains, splashing in the river and getting its ears scratched at the end of the day.

I want to sleep in this room! Iím going to treat my bedroom.

When music is playing, It sounds damn good! I was expecting the bass to be clean, clear and well articulated. It is. I was really surprised about how the highs really sparkle and pop. The highs have a clarity and preciseness to them that Iíve never experienced before.

The bass is so complex. Iíve never experienced bass like this in a room before. All the subtle variations and nuance flows so naturally. Bass notes that I always thought were one note have so much more to them.

The harmonic richness is all there top to bottom.

The sense of space is so natural it. Notes and voice are born and die a full life cycle.

By the time my Torii MKV comes (hoping I can pick it up at DECFEST) I should have the room dialed in really well.


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Lon
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #1 - 09/06/22 at 20:12:55
 
Wow! Excellent purchase and plan and implementation. I'm envious of both your deep pockets and your ability to have this sort of dedicated space. Don't forget the Tylenol and Tiger Balm and enjoy the fruits of your labors as soon as you can!
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tempest62
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #2 - 09/06/22 at 21:06:13
 
Nigel,

You have definitely ARRIVED. My total admiration goes to you and your tastes in all of it.

You are certainly qualified to be featured in an audio magazine as a man with one of the greatest systems and room.

You WILL be in total audio nirvana.

You deserve the highest of congratulations in your journey and your dedication!!!! VERY IMPRESSIVE. I AM SPEECHLESS.

Brad
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HockessinKid
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #3 - 09/06/22 at 22:37:01
 
Nigel,

Congratulations on the new home, new listening room, and tremendous system + treatments. I know it will give you many years of enjoyment once you get everything dialed in. Those GR Research Servo subs are really special, great addition to your system.

Enjoy life in East Tennessee, once those mountains take hold they never let go.

HK
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #4 - 09/07/22 at 00:35:32
 
Lon, Thank you. Iím very grateful that this is has come into my life. I find that Emu oil responds better for me Smiley

Brad, Thank you. Audio nirvana is it. Iím going to give it a good go to make it as visually pleasing as possible with half the surface covered in grey foam!

HK, Thank you. Iím looking forward to the years ahead in this location. I have a beautiful few of the Smokies from my home. Watching the sunrise over the mountains in the morning is spectacular. Mornings when the mists and fog are rolling through is just as special.

Iíve not heard a system with the GR-Research Servo subs. Iím looking forward to the experience.

I have a singing bowl that has a great tone. Holding it in my palm and activating it in the other rooms of the house, the last few seconds the sound seems to be sucked into the bowl. In the music room the last moments of sound is radiating out into the room. Itís an interesting observation that I want to explore more.
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Geno
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #5 - 09/07/22 at 03:23:47
 
My goodness. This is downright unbelievable!!!

Like Brad said, worthy of an audio magazine spread.

Congratulations and keep the photos coming as you make progress with the setup.

Best,

Geno
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JBzen
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #6 - 09/07/22 at 09:59:08
 
I can understand your comment now about more add-ons.

Very interesting GroovySauce. Very, very nice! The eastern Smokey Mountain High. Looking for some finish pictures!
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #7 - 09/07/22 at 20:47:04
 
Just parroting everyone else here, Groovysauce...  absolutely stunning!  I look forward to seeing the final product (if there is such a thing).  Keep us posted.  Living vicariously through your room for the moment. lol.
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tempest62
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #8 - 09/07/22 at 23:48:25
 
Nigel is The Man
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #9 - 09/08/22 at 03:06:13
 
Once the room is complete you'll be able to have intimate concert performances at home.
A pro job for sure.
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"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #10 - 09/08/22 at 15:48:03
 
Again thank you guys! While I have an extremely healthy budget for this, I do have some compromises. The door from the house to the back yard is in this room. There is another from the bedroomÖ thatís not ideal when guests are over.

Since the treatment is on casters in less than 1 minute I can move them out of the way and gain egress.



A kick plate to protect the equipment is in order. Should be an easy project. Currently low on the priority list.

Geno, Iíll post progress pics as things come together. Smiley

JBzen, yes itís getting cramped. Having the components away from each other seems to be offering some benefits. Using an ďElectrosmogĒ meter. Iím going to optimize the distances as best I can. Once I get the room tuned I will methodically go through moving cables and components based on measurements and listening.




As you can see moving an inch or two makes a significant difference in the electro magnetic fields. RF interference will also be accounted for. How this translates to the sound of the system will be discovered.

Mannytheseacow, It will be a finished room. Iím sure Iíll tweak things over time. The lionís share will be done though.

Joe, Iím sure Iíll have both intimate and expansive performances Cheesy

The logistics company called last night. The remaining 12 Carbon Panels arrive this Friday!
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #11 - 09/17/22 at 13:23:30
 
Last Friday afternoon 12 more Carbon Panels arrived. I managed to get them all in the room soloÖ I was going to wait for my buddy however, my brother said he managed his by himself so I couldnít let him out do me.

Dennis in his first email said to have diffusers on the front and back walls. That is how I had it setup for the first week without all the Carbon Panels. After a day of listening with all the wall treatment in, I moved all 4 diffusers to the front wall. Speaking with him on the phone he said that he wanted me to listen like that first and then move all the diffusers to the front wall. So my instincts were correct.

Iíve been slowly moving the speaker and listening position. Iím getting confident I have found the ideal spot. Once that is locked in, the 3 CPAs will be installed on the ceiling.



Coverage is ~67% of the walls in linear feet. The CPAs are sitting in another room, as a side note, that room is really nice acoustically with one wall 95% covered with the treatment. I havenít played music in there, by feel itís more pleasant than before.



Iím going to bounce a round a bit. Once I have a better handle on what Iím hearing Iíll offer a more focused description.

I sat down to listenÖ I was almost disappointed for a split secondÖ Then OH SHIT! What is possible in the listening experience has changed, a paradigm shift has happened. Why was there a split second of almost disappointment? When there has been something wrong for your entire life, then it corrected my brain short circuited for a moment. Of course that is how it should sound! Then the realization that everything and I mean everything has changed.



The vocabulary of describing changes doesnít make sense to use anymore. It just wonít translate correctly. Bigger soundstage, more separation, tight bass, listen deeper, you are there and the list goes onÖ Yes, all the vocabulary to describe the changes can be used. Will it translate how profound the change is? I donít think so.



Iíve casually been following a thread about the Taiko Extreme Server, itís price tag is ~$30,000, They announced there is going to be a 25% price increase soon, $37,500 server. They have a new software that is in alpha testing. Peoples minds are exploding over how much better it sounds. After experiencing what this room sounds like treated. Itís a foolís errand to use the same descriptors to describe what the experience is. Unless the paradigm and context changes. They are talking about 8 bit color Iím experiencing 16 bit color.

The difference between 8 and 16 bit color is 16,700,000 vs 281,000,000,000,000, thatís millions vs trillions.



When someone describes something as ďhyper detailedĒ I get feeling itís sterile, hot on top, fatiguing, hard and lost a bit of the soul of the music. Iím now hearing exponentially more information. I can also listen for hours and still want more.

This photo might be a good example.

https://www.earthcam.net/projects/empirestatebuilding/gigapixelpanorama/2021/

Slowly zoom in on anything that you find interesting. Once you have zoomed all the way in quickly zoom all the way out.

If youíre not familiar with the NYC skyline click the points of interest and find the Statue Of Liberty. Click it off again and SLOWLY start zooming in. Again quickly zoom out. That is what the treatment has done. Little specks that where not even visible can be focused on and incredible detail can be seen. The music doesnít get grainy like the photo!

As with that photo, you can take a quick glance and say ďyeah, thatís coolĒ and move on. You can also start to explore little nooks and crannies. Before you know it itís been hours and the time has disappeared.

Listening to the same track multiple times in a row is a wild ride. There is so much to explore. Following a bass line, a connection is made to the cymbals as it slowly fades away attention is brought to the guitar. The guitar and the bass line are not just playing off of each other. They have a connection. Everything is connected. I have yet to make it through a song focusing on just one part. They way they are connected together it itís not a drum kit, guitar, bass and singer. Itís one instrument.

The same way a stringed instrument has different parts that make up how the instrument sounds. A band becomes a single instrument. Not just the performance. The sounds blend together in a way that makes sense.

From the whole, you can then go in and hyper focus on a small little detail. The focus doesnít take effort. There is no struggle.

Vocals are interesting on their own. When there is the smallest bit of ambience on the vocal recording, the echo comes through so clear. Songs I never knew that there was any echo at all, now it can be easily heard. As if the singer cloned themself and was whispering the lyrics a split second after.

Every day, Iím checking to make sure Iím not listening to a remastered version or a completely different version of songs Iíve been listening to for decades. Some songs sound like they have been re-recorded. New instruments and a different mic setup. Itís that large of a change.

All of this is driven on the foundation of bass. This might be the most difficult to convey. Even subsonic bass feels different. It might be because Itís so new. Bass might be more complex than midrange and treble combined! There is so much there! Itís audible and tactile. The tactile aspect is the most fascinating to me currently. The experience we all have had is when music is played energy hitís our body. Itís almost constant, no dynamics. Difference is standing in a pool of water vs the ocean with waves. There isnít much excitement with the pool. The ocean is dynamic and exciting, ever changing. The waves can be calming and serene or full of power and force. Music (sound waves) especially the bass have the same properties. Itís a new experience which Iím enthralled with.

The tactile feeling might be why open air drum circles are so popularÖ or maybe itís the drugs? Or, both?

Iíve lowered the volume I listen at by ~ 5db SPL. The explosiveness of the music makes it seem a lot louder. Peaks of 71-72db exciting. 75-80 is crushing.

Iím going to make some numbers up real quick to illustrate a point.

Room 1. 30 db ambient noise. Itís treated so all the frequencies get in, do their job and leave quickly. 50db vocals are easy hear, 20db of dynamics range on the vocals. Bass hit of 70db, 40db swing!

Room 2. 30 db ambient noise. The frequencies hangout and over stay their welcome. raising the ďactive ambientĒ noise to 50db. Now, Vocals at 50db are hard to hear. What do we do? raise the volume. Now the Vocals are at 60db, the ďactive ambientĒ noise has raised to 53db. 7 db of dynamics on the vocals. Bass hits at 80 db now, problem is bass is drunk throws up on the floor and passed out on your couch. For a few moments the ďactive ambientĒ is raised to 70db, leaving 10 db of dynamic range on the bass hit. It also covers up the harmonics and subtlety that the bass can offer. To compound this the ďactive ambientĒ noise is above the vocals so you donít hear all of them.

Room 1 ďactive ambientĒ and ambient noise are the same. This is what treating / managing the bass does.

Room 2 is a typical room. Itís actually worse than that! This example isnít taking into account room modes.

Have a ďfastĒ amp and speakers? Your room has one foot on the brake and the other on the gas ruining it all.
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Geno
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #12 - 09/17/22 at 13:59:06
 
This is just mind blowing Groovy.

Few questions.

Distance from speakers to listening position?

What do you have on the floor in front of the speakers?

Remind me, what are the dimensions of the room?

Soooooo cool!!!

We can all learn something from all of this!

Very best, and congratulations.

Geno
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mperdue63
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #13 - 09/17/22 at 14:22:08
 
Hey Groovy,
Incredible room! What part of East Tennessee do you calm home now?
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HockessinKid
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #14 - 09/17/22 at 15:06:58
 
Nigel,

Quite a lot to be learned from your well treated room and exceptional system. Wishing you immense enjoyment from the music and your experimentation along the way.

HK
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jec3504
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #15 - 09/17/22 at 16:58:03
 
Nigel,

Impressive! Congrats on all your hard work. Looking forward to hear more about your Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room.

Joseph
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #16 - 09/17/22 at 22:16:08
 
8í6Ē from the back wall
7í from the front of the diffuser
4í5Ē from side walls
9í2Ē center to center of speakers.
10í10Ē speaker to listening position

Room is 19í6Ē x 27í6Ē
Approximate Room size with treatment (usable) 17í2Ē x 24í
Vaulted ceiling 8-10í

A laser measure and a laser level are fantastic tools to have. Literally those two tools have saved me countless hours over the years. Once I finalize the positions Iíll get the speakers placement and angles within 1/8 of an inch or better. Right now everything is within 5/8th of an inch. I will also level them.

On the floor in front of the speakers is Acoustic Fields Studio Foam. Iím planning on making a frame for them and raising them off the floor a little bit.

All week Iíve been going between being lost in the music to trying to make sense of what is happening.

My home is ~15 minutes outside of Maryville, 30-40 minutes from Knoxville.

Thank all yaíll for the well wishes.

I forgot to send a photo of the more complete back wall.





Pardon the clutter I have been doing my best to hide it Cheesy . Iím still waiting on my floors in the rest of the house to be redone and I have a bunch of extra stuff in the room. The wooden platforms wrapped in plastic are for the speakers once I finalize their placement.

A quick observation. When music is playing everywhere in the room feels basically the same. There are no blatant bass modes. My guess is moving the speakers and listening position is driven by the interaction of the speakers and listening position relationship with the diffusers.
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #17 - 09/17/22 at 23:36:59
 
Thanks for the breakdown, Groove.

Looks like you have dotted all the iís and crossed all the tís. That would be a ďTĒ for Tennessee - not Texas😁

Best,

Geno
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Same Old DD
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #18 - 09/18/22 at 04:44:42
 
If there was a "WHEW" button I would have pushed it! I'm a bit over heated.

Nice work, Groovy!! Not enough praise I can ascribe with text.
Most of us can not even approach your level of room corrections.

I am intrigued on many levels.

My room is (tiny) coming along at a snail's pace, but I am still concerned about my super reflective ceiling plaster.
What are your future intentions for addressing yours?
I know, I keep harping, but as much as I have gained, I am still hearing my ceiling.

What did the guru offer for you in regards to ceiling corrections?
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #19 - 09/18/22 at 11:03:19
 
Anytime Geno!

DD, 3 panels, 4í8Ē x 6í4Ē and 7Ē thick will be hung from the ceiling. 3 layers of 2Ē Acoustic Fields Foam. They will absorb down to 65hz. They are being staged in another room.



One of the reasons Iím such a proponent of their foam is it keeps the room alive while keeping everything neat and tidy.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #20 - 11/12/22 at 16:32:17
 


6ish week update.

Iíve moved the speakers and listening position around a bit.

The ceiling panels still have not been installed. Iím waiting on 4 QDA-13 Diffusers (back wall
) and 4 ACDA-M (platforms for the QDA-17 front wall) Scheduled delivery this coming Friday. Once I get those 8 items Iíll make any last changes to speaker and listening position and get the ceiling treatment in place.

Currently there are 5 XL sheets of Acoustic Fields foam behind the listening position. Iím going to be putting treatment in my bedroom and possibly other living areas. Rooms are more pleasant to be in when treated. It also leaves the option to make more panels for fine tuning if need be.

I received my Torii MKV! Itís fantastic!

I added 2 GR-Research Triple-Threat servo subs. I have them crossed over at approximately 35hz at a very steep roll off. The Rythmik amps donít crossover low enough or fast enough so I have an inline cross over at 35hz 24db/octave. I then have the amps crossed over as low as they will go with a 24db/octave roll off. Subs active I get around 1-2 db bump at 40hz over speakers alone. Subs active I get bass town to 12hz before it rolls off.

I also modified my Quintet crossovers. I added a Speakerformer made by Dave Slagle to attenuate the Voxativ 8Ē full ranger. The Speakerformer vs resistors is no contest. Speakerformer takes it to the next level!

Iíve wanted to try open baffle subs for a long time and Iím glad I did. If I had the option between subs and the same $$$ in Carbon Panels, I would go Carbon Panels over subs no hesitation.

Subs bring three things. First. Air and space is increased, this seems counter intuitive. An example. Branford Marsalis - In My Solitude: Live at Grace Cathedral, solo sax in a cathedral so no major bass going on. There is a track where he turns around and plays away from the mics. This showcases how large the cathedral is. Subs active the cathedral sounds much larger and solid.

Second. The feeling! This goes along with the treatment. The texture and detail that is perceivable through my entire body adds a whole new dimension to the musical experience. Itís as if 1/3 of the music was missing and now itís available. Example, Elder Islands - Garden The rumble of bass that rushes pass. The subsonic rumble before itís audible. Similar to feeling the ground rumble before thunder is heard.

Third. Increase the envelopingness. Being in a musical environment where there is sound all around. This is the sense that there are multiple speakers all around the room. I had a buddy thinking the diffusers on the back wall were either speakers or had speakers hidden in them. Tekdiffeye - Everlasting Essence (turn off the lights, close your eyes and turn it up a bit more than normal) I recommend no song queued up after. This can be really disorienting. There is sound coming from everywhere! The things flying from behind to front is intense. For something more relaxing more of floating. Mirage of Deep - Outlander (really the entire EP Talking to Stars.) Super expansive and floaty.

The room treatment allows the above things to shine.

I hope all reading have had the experience where everything is just perfect. Mental, physical, moon and stars are alined, power is good. The nights when you donít want to turn off the stereo because everything is marvelous. We end up staying up late into the morning listening not wanting it to end. That is what my system is like now all the time. Yes some days are better than others. I have a relaxedness about me now, I know itís going to be this good tomorrow the next day, the next day and so on. I can end a nights listening and not feel like Iím missing the magic that only comes around once and awhile. Tomorrow itís going to be mind bending again.

There is so much information that is on recordings that Iíve never heard before. Looking at a frequency response plot 10-100hz ~30% 100-1,000hz ~30% 1,000-10,000hz ~30% 10,000-20,000hz ~10%. Numbers based on a guestimate. 30%+ easily wasnít being rendered correctly (10-100hz) Thatís 30% of the music that was missing before. This isnít just ďbassĒ. If a sung note is 240hz there are harmonics at 120hz, 60hz, 30hzÖ Those harmonics are lost in a vast majority of rooms/systems. Getting the room right so those harmonics can shine is a beautiful thing.

The detail and texture of bass notes / instruments is complex, delicate and deep. Low volumes hearing with the body, torso, legs, arms and head adds a new dimension to the music.

Silent meditation has been part of my life for many years. In deep meditation there is a physical sensation that happens. A simultaneous relaxation and energizing. It starts in the brain both physical and psychological. After the meditation session is over it can persist for hours. Before I got all the treatment I would occasionally get a similar sensation listening to music. Now it happens on a regular basis. Listening to music while in this state is a whole new experience. The ability to move around the sound in a way that doesnít make sense in the physical world as we generally know it. Isolating, expanding, contracting and changing perspective of observation becomes available. Start to think about whatís happening and the ability goes away. A minute or two later and I can be back in the flow. At this point discussing things like tone, soundstage, imaging, accuracy and all the rest of the audiophile lexicon seems as bizarre an idea as rowing a canoe to the moon. I will still give it a good go at times.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #21 - 02/26/23 at 15:53:42
 
WOW! itís been over 3 months since my last update.

This project has been in slow and steady. Iíve added bases for the QDA-17 diffusers. I have 4 QDA-17 diffusers for the back wall now. Iím waiting on the last 3 CPA units for the ceiling.

I did remove the subs for now. Iíve added ESS heil AMT drivers crossed over around 12k hz. Right where the voxativs start to drop off. Adds a nice touch of air and ambiance.

Listening position has been moved to almost an equilateral triangle. 10í5Ē between speaker center, 10í10Ē ear to speaker center.

I recently wrote to Dennis at Acoustic Fields. I removed and lightly edited parts.

Dennis,

Really happy with the room. The sound is phenomenal. Looking forward to 4 more CPAs installed.

currently 2 CPAs are installed above the speakers. That was an impressive change for the better.

Some things that people talk about as positives like speakers disappearing and image beyond the speakers become almost a foreign concept. Every thing sounds so natural why would there be speakers? why wouldnít the image extend past the speakers? The size of the room is meaningless. If the venue the track was recorded in was small and intimate thatís what it sounds like. A huge cathedral or auditoriumÖ thatís what it sounds like. There is an EP by Mirage of Deep - Talking to Stars. The room is so expansive there is no endÖ the room doesnít exist. Sounds fade off into nothingness.

There seems to be a scale of (resolution)?

1. Phantom center image.
2. Smooth gradient between the speakers.
3. slight depth past the speakers
4. expanding past the speakers left and right.
5. deepening of sound field behind the speakers.
6. expanding past the speakers left right more.
7. sound encircling the listening position. (hints that the sound is off to your left or right.)
8. The sound comes toward you. NOT forward as in ďin your face"
9. sound from behind.
10. the circle envelopes you.
11. You can follow sounds around the sound field (which is larger than the actual room dimensions)

Seat of my pants with that scale, I could / can tighten it up.

Elder Island - Garden This track is really cool! the pressure wave comes from far in the distance, you can feel is coming, it washes over you and keeps on going.

Elder Island - The Big Unknown The electric guitar off to the left is ~3 feet in front of the speaker and ~4 further left. It doesnít sound like a gimmick. I can turn my head and look at where the guitar amp is and it is still there the illusion doesnít go away.

Mirage of Deep - Tokio The bass (sub bass?) is very complex and has sharp transients. Itís really hard to explain this one in words. I guarantee a fraction of audiophiles have heard bass like this. The low low bass transitions so fast and sharp it was un-nerving the first few times I listened. I donít think my brain has processed information like that before. Now Iím used to it and itís something I enjoy. †

James Blake - Limit to Your Love. Iím not sure what the effect is. You cannot miss it when it shows up (50 seconds in). In a room with no pressure management it feels like pressure the room is instantly overloaded and itís straight noise. In my room itís a fluttering, you feel the air going backwards and forwards. It changes in frequency and amplitude as well. Itís two totally different experiences. While that is going on you the percussion bounding around is easy to follow and hear fade. There is also a lot of very low bass information that is easily picked up.

One thing that Iím still surprised about is how low of volume I listen at. Iíll finish listening to an album and wonder how loud it was and it was peaks under 70db C weighted. The sound is dynamic and exciting, there is a visceral impact complete immersion into the music. All under 70db! Turn it up a bit hitting peaks of 80db C weightedÖ itís goose bumps.

Another constant is that elements donít get lost when things get complex. Example, if the voice is recorded with a lot of ambiance. When all the instruments are playing you can still easily hear all subtle textures of the room it was recorded in.

Those are some quick notes. I have more.

* END †*

One thing that Iím pleasantly surprised with is how alive the room is. When people see so much absorption they expect the room to sound dead or strange. Iíve said this before. It sounds like being deep in a forrest.

As you can see from the photos the room is almost done. Once the 4 CPAs are installed Iíll focus on making the room more aesthetically pleasing. Good thing I think diffusers look good!

The pile of acoustic foam on the floor will eventually be cut up and make into more panels. Iím waiting until the CPAs are installed to hear how it sounds. Iím going to place absorbers in other rooms of my home too, I doubt it will all go in this room.








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jec3504
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #22 - 02/27/23 at 13:45:35
 
Nigel,

Thanks for the update. Congratulations, your room sounding like the deep woods is truly amazing! What a great comparison. All your hard work is paying off.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #23 - 02/27/23 at 16:51:31
 
Thank you.

One thing I haven't mentioned yet is I'm looking into MLV curtains by https://residential-acoustics.com/shop/soundproofing/acousticurtain/ I was going to make some plugs myself with plywood and MLV. I'll give these a shot and see how it goes. I'm going to wait until the cicadas show up to see how effective the will be. I live in a quiet area... except for the cicadas.

I also removed the ESS AMTs over the weekend. Lose a little sparkle on top, over all prefer without them in the system.
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Kamran
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #24 - 03/02/23 at 21:40:53
 
What a fantastic threadóthanks for taking us along for the ride! Lots of learning here! Iím now thinking of excuses to visit Tennessee, lol!
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bramar
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #25 - 03/21/23 at 20:50:13
 
Nigel, saying that Iím totally blown away is a huge understatement. What an incredible job youíve done. I just canít believe my eyes! Congratulations to you and what youíve accomplished.

Brad
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #26 - 04/02/23 at 16:04:50
 
Nigel, how was Dennis to work with? He has such spotty reviews but guessing from your room your experience was a success?
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #27 - 04/03/23 at 13:26:35
 
Dennis reminds me of Gordon Ramsey. No nonsense when it comes to quality and how you should do things. Also, top of his game.

Dennis is a donít waste our time type of person. If you watch a bunch of his videos you should have a good idea what he is like on the phone. When I first spoke to him I was going to buy some of his foam. I mentioned that I built some panels with 703. He instantly said. If you have the skills to make a frame donít waste your money buying the built frames from me, they are really expensive. Buy the foam and make the panels yourself that makes more sense.

He is correct! the built panels from him are very expensive. I bought 4 sheets of foam from him. Replaced 4 of the 703 panels and I was ruined! I had a majority of 703 panels still at that time. The improvement was unmistakeable.

At that time I was looking for a new home so I wasnít looking to buy anything more.

My brother bought 4 of the Acoustic Fields Carbon Panels which are diaphragmatic absorbers. He was blown away by the improvement in bass. So I was 100% sold on the approach and technology.

When I contacted Dennis after I bought my new home, I knew I was all in and had a good idea about what I wanted. I filled out the forums and sent him some photos with what I was looking for. He broke down the plusses and minuses of my room. He asks a bunch of questions. He doesnít waste time and says exactly what is needed. I can see this rubbing people the wrong way. He isnít on the phone to become best buds with you.  He sees the problem figures out how to solve it and then asks what do you want to do about it?

His products are significant money. He is aware of that and is respectful of budget, he does push it a bit which I cannot fault.

Dennis offered 2 or 3 different options. I chose to do it in stages, which he recommended. Get some of the treatment in, listen see what I thought and go from there.

When I received my first order of Carbon Panels I was shocked that they were black! My brothers are a clear/wood grain. I wasnít asked what color I wanted, all the photos on the website are of a clear coated product. I was a bit upset over this. Dennis was like it is what it is, listen with your eyes closed. Thatís really messed up. At the end of the day it wasnít a huge issue for me. I can see this right here being a reason people speak so poorly about him.

Iíve seen a few reviews and posts about Dennis how they had a bad experience. Iím not sure what to make of that. Part of me thinks that some people are so entitled now that if they donít get red carpet service they have been slighted, they get butt hurt and throw a pity party and try to get everyone to join them.

Dennis does guard his time. To speak with him you need to make an appointment. I received a shipment on Friday, had a few questions and I couldnít get an appointment until Tuesday. Itís a bummer, I would probably do the same thing in his position. He is turse, I can see this being a huge turn off to a lot of people.

One thing Iím sure of is he desperately wants people to have an amazing room, he is passionate about providing a music room which offers an out of this world experience. Every time we chat about how the room has changed he gets excited and his demeanor changes. He is like a kid at Christmas. He is so passionate about how good music can sound.

I didn't know how good it can get. I'm happy I went with this approach.
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #28 - 04/03/23 at 14:54:38
 
Thanks for that very thorough and thoughtful response.  I can imagine in this current state of the world that there are a lot of entitled folks and Dennis, being a business man, has little time for people that want free information without giving anything in return.
The ratings I saw that were concerning to me were ones where the reviewer claimed to have paid for service/product that they didn't receive, which obviously wasn't your experience.  
I'll probably go a similar route to you, being up front about my goals and budget, and implementing in small doses.
Thanks again for the info.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #29 - 04/04/23 at 23:52:38
 
Manny, My pleasure. I've also seen the posts about no products or services, I'm not sure what to make of that. It's very odd.

I just got a confirmation that the last 3 CPAs are shipping soon.

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charles hidalgo
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Re: Groovy's Stereophonic Sound Spectacular Music Room
Reply #30 - 04/08/23 at 14:38:13
 
What a journey. † Smiley
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