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Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers (Read 44699 times)
JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #50 - 08/02/22 at 18:36:50
 
No problem DD. I certainly understand your point of view about the migration of steadfast programs to the intrusive, time consuming, (f)ucking online swindle.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #51 - 08/02/22 at 18:49:24
 
Could not have said it better myself.
I might have added flowers, but they would fade.
Smiley

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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #52 - 08/04/22 at 15:04:13
 
I got an email from Lii Audio overnight stating that my F15 driver order had been processed and included a tracking number, via UPS.

Looks like these will arrive on Tuesday of next week. WOW!!

I was planning to have a baffle almost ready when they got here, but I have not even been to the lumber yard, yet. Right now it's raining like the dickens, so maybe later taday.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #53 - 08/09/22 at 16:44:55
 
Checking my tracking number this morning, it seems that my F15 drivers are out to be delivered to my address today.

I have made two plywood and MDF sandwiches, 42" tall, but I have not cut the curved sides yet. Pretty heavy, but manageable.
I have not worked on the "feet" yet.

I'm a little anxious for this to become real!
Smiley

I have been using a back tilt for ages, but that was using three drivers in one baffle and mainly for alignment purposes.
Anyone have a suggestion as to a pleasant sounding back tilt or should I just wait and block them up and back a little at a time until "something happens?"

... or go with my old 11 degree back tilt?  None, maybe? Any suggestions?
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jec3504
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #54 - 08/09/22 at 16:48:07
 
That's great DD,

Hope they work out for you.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #55 - 08/09/22 at 16:55:30
 
Thanks JEC!
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #56 - 08/10/22 at 00:34:10
 
Lii drivers arrived in perfect order from CA a bit ago.
They have that really nice new speaker smell. Build quality looks great at first glance, but I've taken the measurements I needed and boxed them back up for now.

I need to finish my baffles, but before that my Honey Do list is becoming a Honey, OverDue list.
Hoping to have an unpainted mock up done after the week end is over.

Cool
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #57 - 08/10/22 at 01:57:04
 
Glad to hear they have arrived and anxious to hear your impressions as they break in.
Been playing around with mine and 7 degrees seems the optimal tilt in my space.
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PaulInWA60
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #58 - 10/13/22 at 22:01:55
 
Has anybody actually gotten and used the new Lii Audio Fast-15 drivers?  I am tempted to order them and use them in a barrel like open baffle design but their Qts is quite a bit lower than the F-15 drivers and I wonder if that will be a problem.
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #59 - 10/13/22 at 22:48:16
 
Me too. Wondering about the new Fast 15 drivers!

My reservation for the past F15s was that I need the higher frequencies that these new ones seem to have much more of.

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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #60 - 10/14/22 at 01:21:23
 
I’m also thinking of gunning for the Fast 15.  Besides keeping an eye on this thread, Randy from Caintuck has also ordered them, so awaiting his impressions as well.  Couldn’t find any online reviews, even though it was released back in July.
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #61 - 10/14/22 at 02:35:18
 
Looks like free shipping on the fast f15s until the end of this month. Wondering if the lower qts will compromise bass response in the open baffles. Lii seems to think that it will be a direct replacement/upgrade...for their ported enclosure?
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jec3504
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #62 - 10/14/22 at 03:25:26
 
From Lii Audio Quote:
It uses the same basket as F-15 and can be direct upgrade by replacing the driver unit.


Unscrew the old drivers. Put the new ones in. Eight screws per driver.
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #63 - 10/14/22 at 06:58:41
 
The whole writeup from the Lii site on the Fast 15:

"Since creation of F-15 we have always been thinking about all possible upgrades, after years of development and experiment, we can now proudly present to you Fast-15, a new member of Fast series. This model is optimized in detail and soundstage, giving a more present imaging and fuller sound body. The bass is deeper and more elastic that the energy can be released and pulled back quickly and easily. This model also has high end extension that rolls off up to 18kHz, giving a more vivid and swift sound experience. It uses the same basket as F-15 and can be direct upgrade by replacing the driver unit."

In the past they seem to be pretty up front and articulate listeners, and this description sounds pretty good to me! You never know just how it all goes together though until we try it though? Be good to hear impressions.... Cool
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #64 - 10/14/22 at 12:40:40
 
I just emailed Lii Audio asking for their opinion of using the Fast F15s in Steve's ZF15L open baffles. Waiting for a response Wink
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #65 - 10/14/22 at 14:13:07
 
Couple more thoughts:
Decware does not list the Fast F15s on their Lii audio driver page. Most likely Steve has not had time to test those out and the QTS spec put that even further on his back burner.

QTS has a lot to do with stability in relation to physical/electrical interactions as the driver is driven. Maybe the low watt Decware amps would be less of an issue concerning lower QTS with an open baffle design. Remember if the voice coil strikes the pole piece in an unstable over driven cone Smiley

Lii audio only offers one vented cabinet design for the old F15 but the Fast F15 QTS is better suited for a sealed box. So it seems their write up may suggest that the driver will work in any mounted scheme!

Tempting. Old DD what F15 are you fooling with? Inquisitive minds want to know Smiley

John
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #66 - 10/14/22 at 15:06:31
 
Nice writing for Lii's take JBzen. I look forward to the response.

Will
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #67 - 10/14/22 at 15:11:55
 
I spoke to Steve about when the new drivers will be available on his website and he said that he plans to offer it soon.

Yup, same basket. I read that too and then re-confirmed with Randy.  Not sure what the shipping time is.  If shipping is free this month, then I might pull the trigger early and start breaking it in prior to baffles being ready.  

That said, I will probably give it until next weekend—hopefully Randy receives his set by then and has some initial impressions.  Otherwise, it might just be a leap of faith.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #68 - 10/14/22 at 16:32:41
 
JBz, Will, when I decided, almost impulsively to bite at the lure of all the talk about the Lii drivers, I wanted the newest and best, right off.
I went to the website and the Fast 15s were not available, even though they had been advertised for about a month.
I suppose the first run sold out quickly?

I decided to take the standard (upgraded magnet structures?) F15 variety.
I do not have the Fast 15s!
I chose to grab the ones available before the impulse smoldered down too far.

I was not impressed at first, but all that beginning buyer's remorse has completely subsided.
I am pleased with the ones I bought! More than pleased.
I've been breaking them in rather coursely for about a month and they have shown me some things in the past day.
I will truly enjoy getting to know them fully.

I stoppped posting in this thread about my acquisition when I was not able to grab up the Fast 15s for myself, due to low stock conditions at Lii Audio.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #69 - 10/14/22 at 16:55:15
 
Another comment about the lower Q drivers being used in open baffles:

I have been goofing with OB and IB systems for over twenty years (much longer with IB systems) and tried many things in that span of time. We are all looking for that magic .707 Qts range and theory supports this.
Some drivers in the .35 range that I have used worked fine, especially in larger baffles and in multiples. And most particularly in IB subwoofer situations.

Another item is that with dual voice coil drivers, only using one of the voice coils in a low Q driver takes it up to near double the Q compared to using both voice coils.
This may or may not be usable, but sometimes it works out just fine.  Sometimes the windings are co-spun and overlap and these seem to work fairly well, no matter which of the coils is active. Other designs have the coils lain one high and one low. That makes a huge difference in how they work with only one voice coil active. It often does not work well with that kind of coil form.

I know none of that applies to single driver, crossoverless design intentions, but many successes with lower Q drivers are possible.

I do not know if the Fast 15s offer such an option.

I know that Steve will want to try the new drivers with the .4 range Qts before he signs off with confidence, though.

I wonder if ANYONE actually has the Fast 15s in hand yet.
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #70 - 10/14/22 at 17:07:58
 
Interesting DD. Thanks for words on your experience. Lii lists the QTS at 0.528 for the Fast 15s.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #71 - 10/14/22 at 17:10:02
 
Thanks for the correction!

I'll bet they will work just fine in an OB situation.
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #72 - 10/14/22 at 19:06:02
 
That is what I was thinking too...that above .5, especially with the product description of fast and deep sounding bass, but I look forward to Lii's response to John, and Randy's impressions. I do seem to recall folks playing with different coil hookup schemes with the F-15s, but can't recall the story or where I read it. Have you tried it on yours DD?
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #73 - 10/15/22 at 13:21:08
 
No, Will, I have them connected normally. Mine have a single coil hook up. Nothing to change that I can see.
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #74 - 10/16/22 at 19:56:16
 
Just took a leap of faith and pulled the trigger on the Fast 15 considering they were on sale for $549 with free shipping.  Here goes nothing….

Same Old DD—I might pick your brain on how you broke in your F-15s while waiting on the baffles.  “I’m thinking, why waste tube life while breaking it in, so plan to use my Denon receiver for this job.  I like the idea of both speakers facing each other and wired in reverse (or technically, one wired in reverse).  I will just need a way to build a temporary rig to hold the drivers.  Not being the least bit technical, I am thinking a slab of wood with two nails (covered in a soft material) holding the driver in place.

Kamran
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lazb
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #75 - 10/16/22 at 20:59:59
 
or simply clamp the drivers together
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will
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #76 - 10/16/22 at 23:15:57
 
Looking forward to what you finally hear!

Have fun!

Will
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #77 - 10/16/22 at 23:57:34
 
lazb, that does sound simple…what would you use to clamp them together so they stay upright and the paper cone material isn’t damaged on either driver?  

That said, if it’s packed anything like the W15, I should be able to keep it in it’s styrofoam enclosure and cut holes to access the binding posts.  Here’s the only unboxing vid I found online from Hifi Cave:

https://youtu.be/mfLlXyZe_bQ
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #78 - 10/17/22 at 00:44:09
 
Good luck Kamran.

I did a search on Lii's Facebook page and no one has responded to any questions about the Fast F15 use in open baffles. As well as my e-mail. No response! Nothing! I would post a copy of my cordial questions but used Lii's form on the website. No way to reference that.

The new driver is clearly meant for a bass reflex box. Again, the bass reflex is the only DIY cabinet offered by Lii for the F15. So the basket on the Fast F15 is the same and the cone has the same mass but the motor is different. Decware and Randy had great success in using the original F15 in the barrel shaped baffles. The original F15s have a QTS that favors a open baffle scheme along with setting on the border of sealed and bass reflex use.

Please don't confuse the mission of the two sites...Decware and Lii. The two have a partnership but clearly have different tastes and utilization of drivers.

After all the above, there is a good chance that the new Fast F15 driver could end up with loose ill defined bass in a small open baffle such as Randy's Besty or even the ZF15Ls.
There is also a chance it could be awesome but the specs do not dictate it.

John
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #79 - 10/17/22 at 02:09:29
 
I appreciate the feedback John. That’s why it’s a leap of faith.  I’m betting it will be good. Randy is also cautiously optimistic.  Worst case scenario, I’ll sell it and get the original F15’s, but we’re not there yet.  Curious what the ship time is going to be—Randy ordered his well before I did and he hasn’t received them yet.   That is one of the reasons I decided to buy ASAP…in case it takes a long time to arrive.  Currently estimating 8 weeks before my baffles are ready.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #80 - 10/17/22 at 05:03:06
 
Kamran, my F15s are sounding really good now.

Sorry, I can't get on Facebook to see what JBz sees. I'm banned.

For pushing the break in a little faster, I had mine mounted in baffles when I clamped them face to face.
They stood on their own. I used some scrap wood to space them apart by half an inch and clamped the baffles together.

I was not trying to seal them, but just making sure they could not touch diaphragms.

There is so much pressure developed this way they will dance around some, so I placed them on a blanket, wrapped them in bubble pack, more packing blankets and covered them with a big lawn mower box I had yet to throw away.

Left them to sing to each other for about a week.
There is no fine science here. You need to get them to move under their own steam and you just need to be able to tolerate the sound for as long as it takes.
I used the box, blankets and the bubble pack (what ever you have) to absorb some of the sound pressure. No big deal. They just need to play for a while.

I used an old pro amp to run them all week. Anything you have that can run at constant duty for a week or so will be fine.

You are buying the Fast 15s, right? You might not have to do any of this if yours show up closer to spec.
The way mine showed up, more than a full octave above the advertised Fs specification (they sounded like crap!), I had to use severe measures to loosen them up some. It worked out.

I wonder if anyone actually has the Fast 15s in hand yet.
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #81 - 10/17/22 at 15:16:23
 
Guys, I did get a response from Lii! Found it in my spam mail! Had to check a PC to find it. It did not show in the spam box on my phone. Lii has always been prompt in past inquiries which concerned me...made me search! I'll post the favorable response soon!
John
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #82 - 10/17/22 at 15:55:21
 
Below is the question asked on Lii's new Fast F15s.

Quote:
Hello,
I am a Decware user. I am interested in the new Fast F15 drivers that Lii audio just recently introduced. I would like to use these in Decware's ZF15L open baffles. My concern is the new Fast F15 QTS is a good bit lower than the old F15 making the new driver better utilized in a sealed enclosure. Do you think the Fast F15 will perform well in an open baffle despite the lower QTS?
Thank You
John


Lii's response.
Quote:
Dear John,


Thank you very much for your interest in our products.


Actually Qts refers to damping factor, low Qts means higher damping and vice-verca, higher damping means that, when the signal is stopped, the remaining vibration of speaker cone will last shorter than that with high Qts.


Imagine like low Qts would be like "boom" but high Qts would be like "booommmmm". The latter would be like adding reverbration which makes sound more "juicy" meanwhile it also disturb a little the response to signal thus cleanness would be lower.


By experience we regard the "reberbration" created by something with Qts of 0.7 as "just good length" but actually it's not a "golden rule", for example, when you have very good source and amp that can re-created even minor detail you might be more pleased with a system that won't bring you extra vibration as the original reverbration recorded in the source is enough and comfortable for ears.


Also we adjusted the structure to make the sound rich and fast although Qts a little lower as an optimization for open baffle.


Best regards,


Weiyu ZHANG

Hangzhou Lii Song Electronics Co., Ltd.



It is evident that Lii did address with some adjustment to the structure to help with the use in an open baffle. Also, it seems that the new driver will yield a leaner clean bass which may be more noticeable with a smaller baffle especially with the higher frequency response of the new FF15.

John
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #83 - 10/17/22 at 23:33:37
 
John, thanks for sharing the feedback from Lii Audio—-very encouraging.

Sale Old DD: Yes, put in the order for Fast 15 yesterday, no shipping info yet. Just thought of something…in order for the sound to truly cancel out during the ‘let’s face’ ‘em together while wired in reverse”, isn’t it ideal to feed them a mono signal? With Stereo, there will be some sounds mastered for those specific channels and will still be audible.  Since I don’t have a baffle handy, my initial attempt will be to keep them lodged in their respective styrofoam cases (to keep them upright) and cut a hole in the foam to feed the binding posts.  I should be able to get them pretty close together and will take a leaf out of your book to further cover them and perhaps but a box over it.
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PaulInWA60
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #84 - 10/18/22 at 00:32:52
 
I'm a little skeptical about their explanation about Qts but I need a project for the winter so I ordered a pair of the Fast 15's also.
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Ahb3u
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #85 - 10/18/22 at 04:10:46
 
That’s quite the Dear John letter!

And I only recently had my f15s really break in.

It was remarkable how bad they some days sounded, and then how suddenly and definitely just snapped into sync!

Andy

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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #86 - 10/18/22 at 12:06:12
 
Hey Kamran, I think your idea of using a mono signal is a good one.
However, no matter what you do, you can not lower the escaping sound pressure much more than about ten dB. That's still a lot!
The good news is that the low frequency sounds that can travel through walls are often almost mono already and decreased even more than those mids to highs which escape.
A few fluffy blankets help with those mids and highs.

I still think you should give them a try first before submitting yourself to the toil of extreme measures.
Yours might be fine without all this extra work.
Mine weren't. I had very little output below .8KHz when they came out of the box.

Good luck and definitely keep us posted.
I think everyone is Fast-15 curious!

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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #87 - 10/18/22 at 12:12:53
 
Ahb3u wrote on 10/18/22 at 04:10:46:
And I only recently had my f15s really break in.

It was remarkable how bad they some days sounded, and then how suddenly and definitely just snapped into sync!

Andy



Just wondering about your timeline here.

After two weeks running mine almost constantly they began to sound a bit better, but it took two more weeks to make me more pleased with my purchase.

I like what I am hearing, now, but I put a lot of power into them over the past month.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #88 - 10/18/22 at 12:16:40
 
PaulInWA60 wrote on 10/18/22 at 00:32:52:
I'm a little skeptical about their explanation about Qts but I need a project for the winter so I ordered a pair of the Fast 15's also.


Yeah, kind of a pre-kinder explanation.
Grin

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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #89 - 10/18/22 at 14:37:18
 
Sidelining the wiseacre remarks, Weyiu does identify with the potential issues with the new driver. He also leads on how these were addressed by structure changes.

It looks like there is a dip at 1300hz caused by the addition of the new other cone material. This could lead to 'off' vocals by depressing nasal generated tones. The change from a fluted core plug to smooth changed the smooth F15 response to a jagged one with the FF15. While the obvious changes helped the "rich and fast" claim and increased top end for the new driver it came with costs.

It was suggested to me by yet another Steve(a lot of steves and johns present) at the Zenfest to simply reverse the positioning of my layout to the other wider end of the room accommodating a set of ZF15Ls. Interestingly pondering the idea, I may build the ZF15Ls with a possible positive outcome. There was also another guy at the fest that had a well used set of F15s up for sale. I pondered too long and he had split before a purchase could be made Undecided. Wondering if he still has those.

It will be interesting following the different builds and outcome with the new drivers.

John
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #90 - 10/19/22 at 17:55:57
 
Sorry, JBz, I should not have attempted flippancy while others were serious.

Allow forgiveness, please.

To be more serious, his words reflected many of our own frustrations when we attempt to gain that last kibble and bit while running headlong into the sciences we are also trying to understand.

If nothing more, with my "doing really well now F15s" in my room, I want to try the Fast 15s more than ever.
But your description of a mid peak/dip puts me off some. Mine have smoothed out and settled themselves to the point that I do not want to listen to any of my other speakers right now.
All the other smaller "Fast" drivers seem to be a big hit with most folks who have them.
When I decided to give Lii Audio a try I went looking to buy the Fast 15s, but they were not available due to short stock.

I still want to hear from those who actually have them in hand, first hand.

Anyone?

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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #91 - 10/20/22 at 00:57:03
 
Randy will most likely be the first one to get it.  I sent Lii Audio an e-mail today following up since it still shows “processing” 3 days later after I ordered.
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #92 - 10/20/22 at 04:37:12
 
Received the following response from Lii Audio:

“Thank you very much for your purchase. Due to high demand of orders the first batch of supplement was all taken, new supplement will depart this week, it takes normally 15 days to arrive at Long Beach and after several days of clearance will be forwarded by our partner warehouse in CA and delivered within 3-5 days.”

Best regards,

Weiyu ZHANG
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JBzen
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #93 - 10/20/22 at 08:53:25
 
Old DD, don't take it personal. It was more a reminder not to go that direction in my response. I appreciated your comment!

All this talk of speaker parameters got me dusting off the old PE Woofer tester. Spent a day just trying to get it going. It evidently needs a Windows edition that does not mess with DOS too much or just DOS. Windows '97 worked! It was used to test some new wire scheme for inductance.

There are to many audio projects setting around here to tackle anything new. Need to get caught up!

Looking forward of reading about the FF15 builds and impressions.
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HockessinKid
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #94 - 10/22/22 at 11:00:16
 
Lii Audio video post on Facebook. Fast F15 drivers in some massive open baffles. Sound pretty good, but it's tough to judge the SQ

https://fb.watch/gju03Zf9tS/

HK
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #95 - 10/22/22 at 12:30:05
 
I agree on the difficulty of judgment with SQ, although some sibilance can be detected. Bass seems to be good. Vocalist not engaging. Full disclosure: Out of town listening from Samsung S9 with it's speakers nested in the right ear.  Unfamiliar recording.
JMO FWIW
John
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Same Old DD
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #96 - 10/22/22 at 22:58:13
 
Thanks for that link, HK.

I have found that I can still "lurk" on FB as long as I make sure I am not logged in.

The big baffles sound nice, but hard to actually get much from the recording, as already mentioned.

I did get put off quite a bit by the big gray horn things. YUCK!
The lowers look like old school Peavey SP1s, which never had anything come out of them but headaches and the 100z horns for the F15 do not improve anything at all, for me.
I know horns are not all bad! Just that making a good one that actually is a pleasure to listen to is rare from the many, many horns I've had to deal with.
Sorry, mostly pro audio and live music experience in my life. This sitting down and just listening concept, allowing others to have it all ready for you is still a bit new to me.
Grin
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Kamran
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #97 - 10/27/22 at 17:00:29
 
So interesting turn of events – it appears, that I might be receiving the Fast 15 drivers tomorrow, and Randy will get his pair coming Monday. Stay tuned…
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astro-chris
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #98 - 10/28/22 at 18:10:16
 
Awesome;I look forward to hearing what you and Randy think of the new Fast 15 drivers!
Chris
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Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #99 - 10/29/22 at 03:10:15
 
We might have Randy’s first impressions as early as tomorrow evening. At least he got the notification that they were delivered.  Mine on the other hand? Well, let’s just say that somebody at UPS got an earful because they apparently don’t have any idea where the package is once their truck broke down on the 25th. They told me to mark it as lost. For now, I’ve informed Lii Audio and will let them make the call.
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