Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
04/16/24 at 07:56:12 




Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 
Send Topic Print
Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers (Read 48042 times)
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #200 - 11/20/22 at 06:32:22
 
Speaking of Caintuck Baffles, here’s one on Audiomart right now with the original F-15 drivers. As per my observation, these come up few and far between.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649920676-caintuck-audio-lii-open-baffle15/
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1364
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #201 - 11/20/22 at 10:13:50
 
Those sold fast!

Dennis Had quad 300b is still up for grabs.

John
Back to top
 
 

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #202 - 11/23/22 at 22:03:46
 
Super excited to share that I received the baffles commissioned for the Fast 15 Drivers from Randy earlier today.  It’s a combination of Walnut and African Sapele, and looks drop dead gorgeous. Randy also recently decided to switch the base from poplar to red oak, mentioning that not only do they look nicer, but also are heavier and more solid. I keep going down to the basement just to lovingly stare at them from various angles!  

The packaging was top notch.  One big carton securely contained both baffles and every side protected by thick foam.  And the cherry on top? Randy also packed a CD with some tracks for me try out!

I had prepped for this day.  Earlier this week, I got a small (think palm of my hand small) SS amp and a pair of cheap speaker cables to break these puppies in vs. wasting my tubes.  I have connected my Amazon Echo via the auxiliary input on the amp and will ask Alexa to run a playlist on repeat, while I go visit my in-laws for a couple of days.  Taking a leaf out of Same Old DD’s book, I’ve wired them in reverse, facing each other, and intend to also put some blankets on top to contain the sound. If I can find it, plan to install a remote camera so I can monitor the listening room from afar.

I will probably connect it to my main rig sometime next week and will share my thoughts once I have at least 100+ Hours of playtime.

https://ibb.co/xFr9xf2
https://ibb.co/0QR1V8Y
https://ibb.co/88JN1dK
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2917
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #203 - 11/23/22 at 22:30:23
 
Those do look nice, even carrying the yellow pretty well!

Looking forward to what you hear!

Will
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
PaulInWA60
Verified Member
**




Posts: 17
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #204 - 11/23/22 at 22:30:39
 
Boy that outer ring really is quite bright.  I ordered my Fast-15s about a month ago but no reason to believe they have even shipped yet.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Kahuna Jack
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 132
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #205 - 11/24/22 at 00:03:35
 
good looking baffles Kamran !  hope to hear about your transition from Klipsch to Lii Audio's .
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 618
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #206 - 11/24/22 at 00:43:31
 
Those drivers and baffles are striking! The more I looked, the more I liked the combination. Take care of those babies. By the way, what time in the early morning will you be getting up for their first feeding? Smiley
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
  IP Logged
Randy in Caintuck
Seasoned Member
****


Tube be ... or not
tube be ... it's a
no-brainer.

Posts: 965
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #207 - 11/25/22 at 17:33:50
 


Kamran's baffles .....



Larger photo here.

Happy listening,
Randy

Back to top
 
 

CEC TL5N belt drive CD transport
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N DAC / Streamer
Decware SE84UFO amplifier
Caintuck Audio Betsy Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii Silver-10 Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii 15 Open Bass Baffle
WWW   IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #208 - 11/25/22 at 18:25:26
 
Thanks guys—babies are breaking in at home while I’m at my in-laws for thanksgiving break. I had to change the color combination of the bafffles once I received the drivers a couple of weeks ago. Randy was very accommodating and the final result is just breathtaking.

All I can tell you is that they sound mighty good even covered under 3 layers of blankets facing each other! As of now, I’ve put on 35 hours. Plan is to get at least 100 (if not more) before I insert in to the main rig. I’ve set up a nest cam so I can make sure music is still playing and trying to stop in person for a couple of minutes to gauge the temperature of the small SS amp—yesterday, it was still cool to the touch after playing for 15 hrs. I’ll probably stop by again today.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #209 - 11/25/22 at 19:03:19
 
Those look very good.  Makes the outer ring color work.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 618
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #210 - 11/26/22 at 03:11:09
 

"Makes the outer ring color work."

That was my same thought. I am not sure how it look with a different wood color, but I liked that combo.
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #211 - 11/26/22 at 03:46:42
 
UPDATE 11/25/22


500 hour mark has been hit after leaving them on 24/7 since my first post.  Network is installed.



click to enlarge



Using the anything but soft Zen TORII Monos on the speakers during the break-in (which I did on purpose to make them sound as bad as possible to make it easier to hear anything I didn't like) actually sounded good with the network added and even though I haven't done much sweet spot listening prior to the network, I have since and to my ears and room it sounded quite good at that point...

Yesterday in celebration of the 500 hour mark I re-installed my well seasoned F15's and listened all evening to set a benchmark.  Also I used the  Sarah 300B amp.  It was superb, just how I remember it.  That amplifier loves these baffles.

So tonight I installed the Fast15's and lit up the Sarah 300B amp.  Everything exactly as it was last night, just different drivers with the network installed at the amplifier because there is no need to put frequencies in the cable that you aren't going to use.

So far I am so blown away by the midrange that I haven't gotten to analyzing the bass, but imaging and soundstage passes with flying colors and if the midrange magic were compared to how chocolate tastes, we just switched from consumer grade to some kind of gourmet chocolate.  Another way to describe it in a single word might be -- wet or alive[/]... I got it, the word is [i]juicy!

So now I guess the test will be to see how long I want to leave them in the baffles.  Tonight I can't imagine it happening, but days to months spent with my music library will be the great test.

The bass is different, not as textured, but very natural and organic sounding with great scale and weight that are both even better than before. So we loose a little punch but the bass gets much larger and deeper so an acceptable tradeoff in fact this is what underpins some of the juiciness.

My congratulations to Leo at Lii Song and his team.  I have no doubt this will be a popular driver with or without the network.  Going from 50Hz to 30Hz in the large baffles would have been enough, but to have this midrange on top of it easily makes the value of the driver greatly exceed the price. I am still amazed that these large baffles will go down flat to 30Hz with a single driver.  I'm pretty sure I've never heard classic 70's rock sound this good.  

Steve



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #212 - 11/26/22 at 04:01:15
 


click to enlarge





A match made in heaven.  By far this would be the biggest most fun sounding combo I could come up with.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #213 - 11/26/22 at 17:03:27
 




https://youtu.be/0fdqCUTE0FA

If you want to hear it for yourself.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23430
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #214 - 11/26/22 at 17:04:13
 
Nice to see those voltage regulation tubes glowing!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #215 - 11/26/22 at 19:41:23
 
Thanks for sharing your observations as it relates to the break-in period involved with these drivers Steve.  That YT sound clip floored me!

My only question from your post last night was regarding the network.  Not entirely sure what you meant when you said network installed and or network added?

Update: I actually have one more question.  Were the drivers on 24/7 at any particular minimum volume threshold?  Trying to ascertain how low I can go, while still being effective.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Edsonic
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 154
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #216 - 11/27/22 at 13:15:25
 
Quote:
My only question from your post last night was regarding the network.  Not entirely sure what you meant when you said network installed and or network added?


Steve explains the high frequency issue in post #152 in this thread, also providing a graph of his own measurement.

His proposed remedy involves use of one ea. inductor coil, capacitor, and resistor, to moderately smooth out the valley followed by a peak that these speakers have in the upper region. That discussion, with explanations and graphs, occurs in posts #159 - #162 in this thread.

The three passive elements constitute a 'network.'

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
EdwardT
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 365
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #217 - 11/27/22 at 14:41:54
 
AKA notch filter, a network of components to adjust for response peaks. And well played with just three parts.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #218 - 11/27/22 at 20:23:38
 


I have been testing someones ZROCK2 in my system this weekend just to make sure it has no intermittent issues... and since it was installed I decided to try the filter A B switch. I always listen to the ZROCK2 with the switch in the position that does not roll off the highs. Without adjusting the dial, I flipped the switch to the more rolled setting. Of course set flat where I have it, it really doesn't start rolling the highs much, but the gain does drop a touch and sound does change a little. I wouldn't say it was dramatic but rather just detectable. If the gain hadn't dropped it would be very hard to hear that anything had happened.

Then I got in the listening chair and the entire sound stage had moved back and focused up and has me wondering if this might actually be the best sound stage I have ever had in my system. I love good 3D imaging with super depth and width and this is pushing all the right buttons. The combination of the network and the ZROCK2 set in this manner is creating a soundstage that is hard to believe using the Sarah 300B.

As you know the Sarah has a switch that using it's own internal ZROCK technology bumps the sound stage back or forward, whatever is your preference.  I generally like it in the back position because I like a lot of depth.  So it is the combination of these four elements (ZROCK2, SARAH Voicing switch and tube compliment, the NETWORK and the FAST15's response in our large baffle that has created this magic.

One interesting thing is the null in my room at 30~40Hz at the listening chair. This is created from the open doorway on the sound end of the room. I have fixed it in the past with a door that blocks the lower half of the opening, but constantly opening that door to walk in and out of the room was a hassle. With the F15's rolling off at 50Hz, this null is never noticed from the listening chair.  

Last night I did a serious round of listening and found myself wondering when I was going to hear the 30Hz stuff because the bass was no better than before with the F15. Then I remembered the null. So I moved my chair back 4 feet out of the null and did some more listening. I was fairly amazed at the amount of low end these speakers have. It's subwoofer bass, the kind you would get from two large 15 inch subwoofers. Equally amazing is all the ultra low bass that was in many of the tracks I played, that I didn't know was there with this kind of prominence.

The experience was like having two large subs added to the system and getting them perfectly integrated and time aligned and having those subs driven by an identical tube amplifier with identical speaker cable and interconnects and power cords and tubes.

This makes me realize that creating small or skinny baffles with the F15 or Fast15 mounted high in the baffle is a mistake because those baffle designs have no bass by comparison to this. So a W15 woofer gets involved in yet another baffle to give you bass. It is less efficient and requires more power. Now you need two amps, and more or bigger baffles, additional cables and so on. All of this is likely to consume more space in your room than a simple pair of ZF15L baffles and unless the W15 is actually in a large and wide enough baffle it's highly unlikely you will hit 30Hz with it.

I was never a big fan of wide speakers - favoring narrow "audiophile" towers that "imaged well". Randy of Caintuck Audio who designed this barrel shaped baffle changed all that. I am convinced it is one of the best open baffle designs there is by gracefully handling energy within the panel to the degree that baffle step compensation is never needed unless your driver sucks.  In fact, this design if you notice is a free floating baffle. There is no frame to secure it, etc., just a high mass base that it bolts into. That means the term "baffle" is misleading. It is so because we all view a good speaker baffle as something that is as inert as possible. Yet on this design, yes it is very dense, but it is a transducer -- meaning that the entire 'baffle' is vibrating to create a sound wave. This means that the woofer is mounted in a transducer that extends its size to the entire area of the 'baffle'. Since the driver is mounted in a transducer which carries the sound away from the driver out to the edges of the arc any baffle step in the response should be nearly undetectable.

The ever changing shape from the arc on either side of the baffle evenly distributes the energy across a wide band of frequencies. In contrast if it were a square board, there would be four triangles attached to the arcs where once the energy passed the line of the arc, it would then see decreasing mass and launch most of that energy into the tip. What didn't launch from the tip would then reflect back to the line of the arc causing hateful harmonic distortion in the panel corners and a fair amount of discord in the panel itself. A baffle like that would become unlistenable at higher volumes, and at normal listening levels it would easily locate itself.

Anyway the design is brilliant and even after many years it continues to amaze me how well it works. Hats off to Randy!






Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23430
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #219 - 11/27/22 at 20:33:37
 
Interesting to learn about the 300B switching as far as "forward" and "back" and the combined sound staging adding the ZROCK2 and the use of the other EQ curve than you usually use. I usually use the treble-reducing curve, in fact I very very rarely use the other curve. Looking forward to experimenting with the ZROCK2 and 300B.

One question: as you are using 75C1 tubes now . . . can 0A2 and 0B2 tubes be used in these spots as well?
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #220 - 11/28/22 at 01:45:25
 
Edsonic and EdwardT, thanks for the clarification on the ‘network’.  While I do recall the specific posts you mentioned, didn’t realize that particular band limiting tool aka notch filter is known as the network.  My mind went to the Cambridge streamer and I was like how the heck was Steve feeding Sarah a signal without his Ethernet/Wi-Fi network, which is what I associate that term with.

It would be lovely if Steve can share pictures of this filter so we can see it in action.  For those that are technically challenged, and wanted a similar network, I’m wondering what options are available to get it pre-assembled, to make it plug & play?

Steve’s follow-up post on the ZROCK2 adding it’s magic is music to my ears (no pun intended) as I just ordered one on Black Friday.

Back home now and have put on approx. 75 hours on the drivers.  Going to wait a couple more days and hit at least 100 before I conduct a proper listening session.  I heartily recommend that cheap Nobsound amp to anyone who wants to break-in gear without wasting tube life.  After running extensively for multiple days, it is still cool to the touch.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Brian
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 897
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #221 - 11/28/22 at 03:04:59
 
Thank you, Steve for the tutorial on how the Randy Baffle works. I always enjoy learning this sort of thing.

Brian

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #222 - 11/28/22 at 16:43:52
 

Quote:
One question: as you are using 75C1 tubes now . . . can 0A2 and 0B2 tubes be used in these spots as well?


Yes, this is a voicing tool, just like on the SE84UFO25.

The following tubes work

75C1 = 75V
OC3 = 75V
OB2 = 115V
OA2 = 150V

The difference between running an OC3 and an OA2 is big.  It will completely change the sound of any tube it serves. Very powerful voicing tool.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #223 - 11/28/22 at 16:55:12
 

Quote:
It would be lovely if Steve can share pictures of this filter so we can see it in action.  For those that are technically challenged, and wanted a similar network, I’m wondering what options are available to get it pre-assembled, to make it plug & play?


Sure, all I have to do is press the Upload images button and drag my pictures into the box.  Code is automatically inserted in your post.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6246
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #224 - 11/28/22 at 17:06:40
 










click to enlarge


Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #225 - 11/28/22 at 17:31:40
 
Thanks Steve!
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Randy in Caintuck
Seasoned Member
****


Tube be ... or not
tube be ... it's a
no-brainer.

Posts: 965
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #226 - 11/28/22 at 18:38:24
 


Steve wrote .....

Quote:
I was never a big fan of wide speakers - favoring narrow "audiophile" towers that "imaged well". Randy of Caintuck Audio who designed this barrel shaped baffle changed all that. I am convinced it is one of the best open baffle designs there is by gracefully handling energy within the panel to the degree that baffle step compensation is never needed unless your driver sucks.

Anyway the design is brilliant and even after many years it continues to amaze me how well it works. Hats off to Randy!


Many thanks for the kind words, Steve .....

As the readers of this forum know, I am not a "numbers guy" and the only "analytic equipment" I own is attached to the sides of my head ..... I only know what I am hearing, with my reference being live acoustic instruments and vocals ..... LOL

I have built dozens of open baffles of various sizes and shapes since 2015 and the shape that always sounded best to me was the "barrel" shape that I'm building now. I have no idea why it sounds good, just what my ears are telling me.

After carefully reading all of your comments about the Fast-15 drivers and comparing them to the ones I have posted in this thread. it seems like we are hearing pretty much the same thing.
In my room and system, the results are definitely "recording dependent" ..... but unless the recording is "hot" or tonally "thin", the Fast-15 drivers are giving me some of the very best sound that I have ever heard.
As previously mentioned, they combine the lower midrange and upper bass of the F-15 driver with many of the qualities of the Silver-10 driver.

As a bonus, they produce more low bass.
I have a few recordings that actually have too much bass when the W-15 baffle is in the system (connected in passive mode with low pass filters).
Apparently, the Fast-15 drivers are duplicating some of the frequencies that the W-15 driver is playing and there is some overlap.
This isn't an issue with the F-15 or any of the smaller Lii Audio drivers.

I'm still experimenting, but it's quite possible that using the ZROCK2 with the Fast-15 drivers (without the W-15 baffle) might be the best option when used in the baffles I am building .....

The Fast-15 drivers sound great with my SE84UFO and also with my custom built 300B (Takatsuki tubes) ..... two totally different sounds ..... both excellent.

You used the terms "juicy" and "organic" describing the sound of the Fast-15 drivers with your 300B amp and I am hearing the same things in my room.
They have a "life" and a realism that is totally amazing with a good recording .....

Looking forward to Decware Fest 2023 .....

Best wishes,
Randy

Back to top
 
 

CEC TL5N belt drive CD transport
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N DAC / Streamer
Decware SE84UFO amplifier
Caintuck Audio Betsy Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii Silver-10 Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii 15 Open Bass Baffle
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23430
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #227 - 11/28/22 at 20:18:43
 
Thanks Steve. I have used all three types (0A2, 0B2, 0C2) in the monoblocks and it's great to have these to tailor the sound with, will look forward to trying them out on the 300B.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
PaulInWA60
Verified Member
**




Posts: 17
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #228 - 12/02/22 at 23:44:57
 
Fast 15's came today.  I hooked them up and they do play and don't sound awful just lying on the floor.  I'm going to put them in my detached garage and just let them play for 2-3 weeks before I stick them in a baffle.  As you can see from the picture the surround really is quite yellow.

Two questions, These are supposed to be a drop in replacement for the F-15 so I'm curious how large an opening most people used with the F15s?  There is 14" on the inner dimension of the rims but the visible part of the black cone is 11.25" and the total black cone is 12" so there is 1 3/8" of visible yellow in the driver.   I do have a small baffle I built for a Trio 15 clone with a 13.5" opening and I have no idea how covering different amounts of the cone effect things.

Also, the yellow material partially blocks the bolt holes.  I assume you just cut through or poke through that to mount?

Hopefully pictures are attached.


Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #229 - 12/03/22 at 00:04:07
 
I had the same question with the yellow partially blocking the holes so I had reached out to Randy and he said it was totally fine to poke a hole through—it won’t damage anything.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
astro-chris
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 127
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #230 - 12/03/22 at 20:01:43
 
Do the original 15s and the new Fast 15s need to be rear-mounted on an open baffle, or can they be front-mounted in a routed hole to be flush with the front of the baffle?
Thanks!
Chris
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Mannytheseacow
Ex Member



Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #231 - 12/03/22 at 21:41:34
 
My original f15s are front mounted, slightly recessed, and flush with the front of the baffle.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
cpucath
Verified Member
**




Posts: 6
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #232 - 12/08/22 at 15:50:56
 
New member here. After a 17 month wait, I am about 20 amps away from getting my SE84UFO2.  Also waiting on Baffle from Caintuck.  I decided to go with the Fast 15 which just arrived.  I have been playing them on the floor to "break" them in.  They sound somewhat anemic with little bass currently.  Is that what others have found when listening to them without the baffle?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #233 - 12/08/22 at 16:39:49
 
Yup, pretty much the same experience with the drivers without baffles . The baffles will certainly add to it, but in my experience breaking them in, bass starts to flush out around the 200 hr mark.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Randy in Caintuck
Seasoned Member
****


Tube be ... or not
tube be ... it's a
no-brainer.

Posts: 965
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #234 - 12/08/22 at 16:39:53
 


Hi cpucath,

Yep ..... without the baffle and coupling to the floor, the tonal balance will be VERY thin.

When mounted in the baffles, the sound will be totally different.
In addition, the bass becomes much better after about 200 hours of break-in time.

Best wishes,
Randy

Back to top
 
 

CEC TL5N belt drive CD transport
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N DAC / Streamer
Decware SE84UFO amplifier
Caintuck Audio Betsy Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii Silver-10 Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii 15 Open Bass Baffle
WWW   IP Logged
ArtMan
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 168
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #235 - 12/08/22 at 17:49:43
 
I upgraded my baffle from the F15 to the Fast15 and the bass was anemic for at least the first 50 hours. At that point I noticed the bass begin to approach the point of having equivalent bass as the F15. It continues to evolve at the 100 hour mark and the bass now goes deeper than the F15.

200 hours sounds about right for bass break-in.
Back to top
 
 

Acer Laptop, Curious USB cable, Holo Audio May L2 DAC, ZRock 2, SE84UFO25, Fast 15 Network, Caintuck Audio Fast 15, Decware DSR3S/DHC2/ZFOCUS cables, Swiss Digital Fuse Boxes, Cryotone tubes (5AR4-WC, EL84-WC X 2, ECC88-WC, 0A3-WC X 2, 0D3-WC, 12AU7-WCL)
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #236 - 12/12/22 at 02:31:26
 
320 hours in.  The leap of faith (to get the Fast 15) was an astounding success.

I’ll wax poetic later.  This has to hold for now.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #237 - 12/13/22 at 02:37:16
 


For now, I’ve changed my mind on selling the Klipsch towers—not because I was necessarily missing them sonically, but the room was looking a bit bare and naked without them.  I’m sure room measurements will prove that the backwave reflections are getting all screwy but I don’t seem to notice a big difference, if any.  

The OB setup continues to blossom and now I have my 5.2.4 HT system back.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 618
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #238 - 12/13/22 at 15:21:33
 
Kamran,

The room looks great.  Initially, I thought the yellow circle around the OB driver might clash, but it somehow matches or contrasts nicely with the wood.  

I recognize the GIK room treatments. John has just sent me my second round of absorbers, which should finish the task in my room.  That was a good referral, thanks.

Tony
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #239 - 12/14/22 at 04:25:18
 
Thanks Tony.  Happy to make the right choice too with the combination.  I was sweating bullets when I finalized the choice, but should have trusted my instincts.

Glad you had a good experience with John at GIK. Next year, I plan to take care of the space to the left of the front stage.  Anything short of an annual cadence on this front will be sure to annoy my better half so I need to bide my time.  The itch is a little less right now once I moved the towers back in and the front stage looks fuller.

Update:  I finally switched to my favorite 6V6 tubes after using the excellent Gold Lion KT77s and happy to report OB’s didn’t miss a beat with nearly half the power output (10 wpc vs. 5 wpc).  And this was after pounding them with bass heavy tracks for 2 hrs. Is the bass ideal yet? Not necessarily (I won’t mind a little more punch), but at the same time (and on some tracks), I also find it very clean, very tight, and very satisfying.  Sort of a love hate relationship, if you will. I also switched the rectifier to a Mazda 5Y3. So its a consortium of French (Visseaux 6V6, Mazda 5Y3), Russian (Melz 1578), on the Had amp and American tubes (RCA and KR) on the preamp.

350 hrs in….My resolve to continue following the break-in routine is weakening by the day since they are already sounding so good.

P.s. I also flipped the preamp 6SN7 tubes around after a long time…with the Ken-Rad VT-231s in the input gain stage and the RCA Grey Glass on cathode follower duty.  I haven’t listened to a 6SN7 with better bass then the Ken-Rad, so I figured it would compensate for dropping the power output to half for the driver tubes on the Had amp.

Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #240 - 12/17/22 at 07:02:44
 
Rocking out with 5 watts.

Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #241 - 12/22/22 at 04:10:05
 
Hours away from hitting 500.  Attempting to share every thought and emotion (while tempting) is not only going to be both physically and mentally challenging, but also will make it a very tedious read. Who needs that—so, let’s take our time and enjoy this in stages, shall we?

The Disappearing Act

I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve heard reviewers mention how their speakers disappeared and always wondered how in the nine hells do you make furniture grade objects disappear?  An evil verbal trickery to get you to buy this shit!—shouted my inner cynic.

However, my inner romantic won that debate every time, concluding that it had to be one of those ‘I’ll know it when I see it (or hear it?)’ kind of situations—that good things happened to people, who waited.

Well, I was rewarded. And then some…

The size of the Caintuck Audio baffles (and the lovely handle) makes it stupid easy to endlessly play placement bingo in your room. With my previous Klipsch RP-8000f towers, and limited speaker wire length, I never really had that kind of luxury before.  This freedom of movement is simultaneously exhilarating and overwhelming (in a good way).

I’ve had them 6 ft from the front wall and now 5 ft.  I have had them 7 ft apart and now 6 ft.  I’m sure I’ll continue to muck around with it.

It’s as if the the speakers are taunting me….’try and localize me now bitch’.

Yet (to my delight), I’ve failed.  

They only bring attention to themselves when the recording is mixed in such a way that emphasizes forward projecting sounds coming from either speaker (in other words, it’s meant to be localized).  Most of the time, they are impossible to spot.  I can’t get enough of this illusion.  All the magic happens behind the speakers, which I’ll explore (separately) in the sound stage section.

For now, I’ll leave you with this:

There are three acts of any magic trick. First comes The Pledge: The magician shows you something relatively ordinary, like a 15 inch full-range driver that has potential. Second is The Turn: The magician takes the driver and makes it fit in a 1.5 inch thick Magnum Caintuck baffle.  Finally, there’s The Prestige: The magician tops play and the speakers disappear.
                                                                                                                                         
Bastardized from ‘The Prestige’ by Yours Truly


Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Brad
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 139
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #242 - 12/27/22 at 13:25:17
 
@Kamran are you using Steve's corrective circuit in post #162 on your Fast-15s?

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1658916276/162#162
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #243 - 12/28/22 at 03:15:57
 
No, not yet. I don’t have the technical chops to do that myself and open to outsourcing it.  That said, they are sounding pretty darn good without it. I’m going to try and post more observations during the next couple of days.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Mannytheseacow
Ex Member



Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #244 - 12/28/22 at 20:40:14
 
I was slightly interested in this project just to build for fun but since I don't have the Fast 15's I didn't see a purpose.  I priced it out at about $75 using decent quality parts, not including an enclosure of some sort.  I could easily throw a pair together for you, Kamran, as I'm sure several folks here would be willing to do.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #245 - 12/28/22 at 21:17:46
 
Thanks Mannytheseacow, I am interested and will PM you after the holidays to explore this further.

Continuing with my observations—next up:

Soundstage and Imaging

I recall watching one of those “Ask Paul” (from PS Audio) videos recently about soundstage and he mentioned something that completely blew my mind.  According to Paul (paraphrasing here), while the soundstage has height, width and depth ques (sometimes more-sometimes less), the actual stage itself is set behind the speakers.

Not in-between them.  

Not in front of them.

But firmly behind them.

That was both an eye opening revelation as well as a puzzling one.  How the heck is that illusion pulled off, I wondered.

Then I proceeded to shit on my Klipsch towers—they never did that!  The stage (or lack thereof) was firmly between them, with the occasional sneak peek above and to the sides, and with decidedly zero depth.

But, I realized they were also very close to the front wall, so it wasn’t fair to knock them without proper placement—something given the heft and weight, I wasn’t comfortable doing.    

They key here was giving the speakers enough room to breath—strongly preferred for box speakers and basically required for Open Baffle.  As alluded to in my previous post, it’s ridiculously easy to move these baffles as long as you have sufficiently long speaker cables.

With the Fast 15s set 5 ft from the front wall, the stage is firmly set behind the speakers, with extension in all three dimensions, and the imaging of each instrument is not only laser etched in terms of position but occupies it’s own distinct bubble without any smearing.  In other words, each instrument can be more easily identified in its respective space within the stage.   It’s not like I didn’t enjoy my previous setup, but this….

Magic is all about structure,-“You’ve got to take the observer from the ordinary, to the extraordinary, to the astounding.                                                                                                                        Ricky Jay--Magician —1946 to 2018
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
GroovySauce
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 810
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #246 - 12/30/22 at 21:38:43
 
Kamran,

Good to hear your stereo is going in a pleasing direction. Blue tape all over the floor is a constant in all my stereo setups for a long time. Hopefully soon I'll pull it all up and be set.

What are your setup distances? Speaker to speaker (from center) and speaker to listening position? I like an almost equilateral triangle. Seems to give the best balance of everything. Example: 10'7" between speakers and 10'10" speaker to listening position.

If you don't have a laser measure and a laser level, pick them up! They will save you countless hours of tweaking. 1/8 of an inch makes a difference.

Throwing a thick soft blanket over the TV should bring an improvement.

Off topic, Did you received your Innuos Pulse? What are your impressions?
Back to top
 
 

Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | STL "Super Tube Rectifier" STR-1002 | SRA Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 938
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #247 - 12/31/22 at 22:18:30
 
Thanks Groovy Sauce.  Your advice and suggestions has been really helpful. Currently the speaker distances are as follows:

Both baffles just over 5 ft from the front wall
Each baffle is 3ft 4 inches from each side wall
Baffles are 6ft 6 inches apart from each other (phase plug to phase plug)
Listening position is approx. 10.5 ft.  From each speaker as my couch is set by the rear wall.  The only way to make an equilateral triangle is to put a chair in front of the couch, which I might experiment with next year.  But this still sounds too damn good.

I initially had them out 6 ft from the wall and moved it back a feet.  I think I’m going to experiment within that range as that is the maximum speaker wire length I have to play with.  I honed in on the side wall distance using Cardas calculations for a dipole speaker.

Yes, I picked up the Pulse last Tuesday and breaking it in (100 hrs recommended) which should be achieved later tonight.  Then, I will give it a critical listen over the next week.  That said, I’ve listened on an off during the past couple of days as I have guests over the holidays and so far I’ve detected increased volume at the same step, more resolution (more meat on the bones), a bigger airier soundstage, and this has me scratching my head…increased bass performance?  I don’t know if that is due to the drivers continuing to break-in or the Pulse (but I suspect the latter).  I will share some more thoughts when I’ve spent another week or two with it and taken it through various genres of music.

Thanks for your feedback and Happy New Year!
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Sean
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 280
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #248 - 01/01/23 at 00:00:54
 
I’ve been following the threads on the open baffle speakers. Never owned a pair, but I am curious about them. I have a wood shop in the garage and could easily make a set of baffles, not worried about that. What I’m real curious about though is how much space they seem to need. Kamran has his at 5’ from the back wall. That would leave me 8’ to my back wall and set the speakers right in the middle of room. No beuno. I guess I’m wondering if there is a general rule of thumb in regards to room size and speaker size. Perhaps a 10 or 12” is better for my room? With the compromise being losing low end?

Anyhow, it’s fun seeing you guys trying these out and even if I never go that route, I’m learning stuff.
Back to top
 
 

Mofi StudioDeck, AT OC9III, Cinemag 1254 SUT, ZP3, CSP2+, SE84UFO, Tekton Pendragon

Schiit Bifrost, Mac Mini, Roon
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers
Reply #249 - 01/01/23 at 00:28:52
 
My room is 16’ deep.  OBs are 3-4 feet from the wall and my listening position is 7’ from the drivers.  Works well.  I have a lot of diffusers though. I haven’t been able to identify where my speakers are for years.  Somehow when I bought my first Decware amp they disappeared.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 
Send Topic Print