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Silver Everything? (Read 2959 times)
Arpin
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Silver Everything?
07/04/22 at 01:00:33
 
Who is doing silver plugs to silver (only) wire to silver jacks? Is there any combo that can succinctly outperform silver everything?
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Exposure Super XV, Exposure CD (original), Rega Planar 3 (1986 - solid silver rewire), Dynavector DV20XH, Neat Acoustics Mystique II, DIY solid silver interconnects, DIY solid copper speaker wire.

Panasonic multibit, Verum, Etymotic, Elac, Pioneer, Schiit
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Same Old DD
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #1 - 07/07/22 at 16:23:25
 
I can't see why no one has responded yet.
Surely someone has some silver in their system.

The only place I have solid silver cable is inside the tone arm from the cartridge of my old favorite Dual turn table. It was something I did at my first stage of upgrades many years ago.

My thought was that your tiniest signal should be offered every advantage to transfer effectively and there is no greater advantage than pure silver.
I added a double braided copper and solid aluminum foil shielding to the exposed lengths past the tone arm to the connection points.
Something I had previously acquired from Radio Shack ages before. I took the shield over to the main turntable ground. Hoping all this would help and it is a quiet table still.


When I last had it open a couple of months ago to add external connections for the cartridge and the power, I used gold. I feel like the stability of gold plating for a connection point is a decent compromise.

But, I saw no change in the "look" of the silver from about twelve years ago. It was still shiny and needed nothing special to solder properly to the gold plated connection points. I re-did all the shielding, too.

Sorry I can't help, but I don't have any silver to silver to silver to silver pathways. Maybe I should carry on with my original thinking and get some silver ICs to my pre?


What are your thoughts?
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SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
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Sean
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #2 - 07/07/22 at 17:20:05
 
I'm a fan of Dual turntables, which model do you have? I've got a 1249, 721, 1257, and a drawer full of parts from those and others I've owned, repaired, sold - 1219, 1229, 621, 1237 and a few other I can't recall. I modded most of the Duals to have female RCAs at the rear for swapping cables.

As far as silver goes, I made a set of RCA's a few years ago. I forget which cable I used for them. After trying them out, a friend mentioned adding a silver wire to them. I believe it was only on the ground side of the cable and it was a huge PIA feeding the silver wire into a sheath. I still use that interconnect between the table and Jolida JD9 (which uses silver wire internally). I can't recall specifically how it changed the sound, but it was good enough and I never went back and changed them.
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Arpin
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #3 - 07/09/22 at 01:27:31
 
Same Old DD,

Thanks for getting this topic going. It is good to hear from someone else who has invested the effort in rewiring with solid silver on the turntable. For myself, this was a total game changer for vinyl in my system. Took it from sounding nicer than digital and made it sound superior to digital in almost every way, at least the digital on my system.

I purchased solid silver phono cartridge clips from Audio Note, 30ga silver from Tempo Electric, and KLEI solid silver plugs. I got rid of the solder junctions throughout the entire RB300 tonearm and now have a solid silver, zero plating, connection running straight from my cartridge into my phono stage. Listening to anything on vinyl has become a true experience for me now all thanks to my solid silver effort. Granted I am using air gapped solid core silver, which to my ear eliminates a significant time smearing caused by stranded wires.

For my phono stage I've replaced the jacks with 80micron silver jacks, and have 30ga solid silver air-gapped from those to the RIAA stage, and then have the output in 24ga solid silver.

So far my solid silver phono cartridge clips haven't seemed to tarnish a year in. I do keep my lid closed, but I'm not sure that would help or not. And since I'm using clear teflon tubing I can see the quality of my silver wire hasn't changed at all. Very shiny.
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Exposure Super XV, Exposure CD (original), Rega Planar 3 (1986 - solid silver rewire), Dynavector DV20XH, Neat Acoustics Mystique II, DIY solid silver interconnects, DIY solid copper speaker wire.

Panasonic multibit, Verum, Etymotic, Elac, Pioneer, Schiit
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #4 - 07/09/22 at 23:50:56
 
I ordered silver upgrades on my Rachel SE34.6I @ ZP3, I just had my turntable restored a JVCQLY66F Direct drive but we did not change the RCA out put cable or the tonearm cable, it's the original JVC straight aluminum removable tube arm, I don't have the "S" curved arm anymore. I'd like to find some to change cartridges. I want to have the plinth redone so I will get the cabling and wiring changed to silver then too. I've got a year on line, right now now my system wouldn't notice a difference.
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"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
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Arpin
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #5 - 07/10/22 at 04:32:47
 
Bicycle Joe and Sean,

I'm strongly considering the Rachel and the ZP3 both with the silver RCAs installed. My experience with using solid silver wire and connectors has deeply changed my personal attitude towards cabling and jacks. I wasn't going to replace the tonearm wiring on my RB300 until I realized that my vinyl wasn't sounding a full level better than my CDs. So I begrudgingly and carefully took apart my RB300 (except the spring housing Wink and carefully replaced the wire with everything silver. I actually didn't get it right the first try, my tubing was too thick Sad. So I went to 28ga teflon tubing and that fit very well inside the tonearm and through the junction points. I was able to reuse the rubber stopper, even drilling small holes through it so that I could thread through my DIY silver wire. As of now, it is solid silver straight from the cartridge leads into my phono stage. It was by far the single biggest upgrade I've ever done, meaning that it was by far the most notable in both impact and sound quality. Having heard the difference I would never not do a tonearm rewire. It will bring nearly incomprehensible performance gains. That signal coming off of the cartridge is so small that there are very big gains to be had just focusing on maximizing the signal path between it and the phono stage. Going solid silver and eschewing any silver plated items in the phono chain has elevated my vinyl experience to a place I never thought possible without replacing my turntable.
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Exposure Super XV, Exposure CD (original), Rega Planar 3 (1986 - solid silver rewire), Dynavector DV20XH, Neat Acoustics Mystique II, DIY solid silver interconnects, DIY solid copper speaker wire.

Panasonic multibit, Verum, Etymotic, Elac, Pioneer, Schiit
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Same Old DD
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #6 - 07/10/22 at 14:20:10
 
Arpin, I am also pleased to hear I am not the only one to have done this. I had read about guys having this done, taking time required to replace those tiny little cables and experiencing improvements.
I bought a kit with silver ends pre-crimped and it was meant to cut to length, came with extra crimps and silver bearing solder for the other end termination.

You have opened my mind to some regrets in that I did not continue the silver chain with my latest fumbling upgrade to external connections. I also wish I had known more about Teflon at the time of my first upgrade as well.

I can say that just the path from the cartridge to the built-in nickle plated internal connections I did at first was a huge difference. You described the improvement better than I can, but at first I felt like stepping back a bit to allow room for my "jaw to drop."
Then I tried to just pass it off as the pride of expended labor, ownership. I had taken the time and effort and had gotten this done and "rebuilt" the old hoss at the same time. I HAVE to like it, right? Sure I do, but the more I listened, I began to realize that my table now sounded like what I thought it had before, but smoother somehow.

So, I started trying to "break it,"  just to see if I was fooling myself.
I had also upgraded my cartridge during the silver upgrade, so I put the old cartridge back on, got it set and the smoothness and definition was still there.
I stuck with the old Grado for a few months before going back the my newer Stanton. This is a lot of older vintage gear I am talking about, but it is what I had.

Listening to a lot of classical back then and some albums were so different, it was like stepping from a cold shower into a warm bath. It was just right, like I thought it was before but just more right.
I can't describe the "sweetness" but it was not like oversweet, but the silver seemed to allow a place for the sweet to be with no after taste.

It's an old 1249 that works flawlessly due to some TLC and I now have an Ortofon Blue from a few years ago on it.

So, I'm not talking about high grade best of anything, here, but the silver definitely made a noticeable difference.

I want a CSP3 or a ZTPre next.


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SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
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Same Old DD
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #7 - 07/10/22 at 14:34:10
 
Hey, Sean, you have quite a collection there.

I only have the 1249, 1229 and a 640RC. The 640 came with an Ortofon and it was my first try of that cartridge brand.
It actually is a really nice table, but I believe the older tonearm is a bit more forgiving of difficult tracks. Also, the 640 has some ultra low frequency feedback tendencies (undeniable with a scope!) that I feel need to be addressed. Won't be an easy plinth to upgrade, though.
It's like that era of ULM tech did not quite get it done. Adding a LF cut helps, but who wants that rhino in the kitchen?

I also have a Technics, but it has recently quit spinning for the second time.  :(

I had a 1219 with an AT, but I gave that one to my brother several years ago.

I also had a Thorens with a Grado for ages, but did not use it much. A mentor/friend had a house fire a couple of years ago and I gave that one to him once he was settled in again.
I also gave him an SAE pre, Sony CD player and a set of my kludged Altec Valencia knock offs I had MDF'ed together, no nice hardwood, just paint.
I offered him a choice of amps, Crown, Yamaha, Zen. He chose my third SE84C.
I was kind of glad about that. He, with all his experience and knowledge had just double confirmed choices I had made in the past.
He had lost EVERYTHING in the house fire. I could at least get him something to listen to again from stuff I wasn't using.

So, yeah, I've been through a few turntables, but I have kept my Duals. They just work.
I know there is better. I mean I have to adjust tonearm height during a cartridge change with shims, but it is doable.

Sean, I can remember the big difference in my overall upgrades long ago.  That is why I went backward, swicthing cartridges again, etc. trying to confirm what I was hearing and still passing it off to buyer's pride. It was more than just that.
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SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
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Arpin
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #8 - 07/10/22 at 17:26:42
 
Funny you describe trying to break the sound. I did the same thing. I started playing some of my lowliest recordings, the ones with the most noise. Now at first they did sound much like how you described, smoother and more “correct”. I also do quite a bit of classical on my system, but also some jazz, new age, rock, and electronica. For some of the classical I could still hear break up at the top end on high dynamic passages at times. So it got me wondering if I should replace all the wiring inside my speakers, and inside my amplifier. Less sane heads prevailed and I rewired my speakers with 14ga copper for the wooofers, and 16ga copper for my tweeters all air gapped in Teflon. I had already switched over to 10ga air gapped copper for my external speaker wire and bought some Viborg solid copper bananas. But going inside the speakers and doing this replacement was totally wild. Even though I was only replacing four relatively short run wires the end result totally freaked me out. My speakers took on entirely new performance levels that I didn’t even know were possible. In the end I wound up replacing every single signal wire with air gapped solid core silver or copper inside Teflon. At this point I couldn’t not do this. The performance gains even on a 1.5inch 12ga stranded wire are insane; this was inside my amp and ran from the output stage to the banana terminals. I thought, there’s no way this can make a difference… replaced with some 12ga solid core silver and mind blown again.

I’ve never been a modder and never believed that wires matter. But what I hear is too pointed and notable. My children can hear the difference. It is something I will always do now. And for me personally, the sonic gains of this type of wiring is good enough that I don’t have much interest in more extensive upgrades with things like capacitors and inductors. Although I am ready to believe that those things matter too! It’s just that right now I’m enjoying the incredible smoothness and clarity of depth and detail that I never imagined was possible on my hifi. I was planning on replacing all of it until this discovery.
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Exposure Super XV, Exposure CD (original), Rega Planar 3 (1986 - solid silver rewire), Dynavector DV20XH, Neat Acoustics Mystique II, DIY solid silver interconnects, DIY solid copper speaker wire.

Panasonic multibit, Verum, Etymotic, Elac, Pioneer, Schiit
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #9 - 07/10/22 at 21:47:40
 
You might find some of the comments made by Mr. Schroeder pertinent to the discussion of silver sound.

Quote:
An afternoon with tonearm designer Frank Schröder
What a gem of an interview! Trust a German for no BS straight down the line analysis. Refreshing to hear myths busted in such simple yet beautifully philosophical terms. Great stuff!


https://youtu.be/4vzcD8OK_Do
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"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
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Same Old DD
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #10 - 07/10/22 at 21:51:06
 
Arpin, you've improved your cables already and that can be eye/ear opening. Enjoy them as you have made them for a while.

I admire the fact that you have carried forward with your silver cabling so far through your system. Three times farther than what little bit impressed me with my own gear.

Not contradicting above, but if you're like some of us, the urge to tinker has not gone away just because of some great success, but rather, coming back around sooner than you think, because of that success.
Smiley


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SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
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Arpin
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Put a great stereo
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Posts: 41
Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #11 - 07/10/22 at 22:31:07
 
Bicycle Joe, great video recommendation. Thank you. Nice to see alternative view points reflected. Loved how he opened with the simple idea that it is better to spend 100k on tickets and dinner than 100k on audio gear. That’s exactly how I feel. But of course if I can do both!!

Same Old DD, don’t tell me I’ll keep tinkering!! No!! Joking. I’m trying my best to stay sane with this hobby. But it really is a great hobby because it gets me closer to the thing I love which is live music.
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Exposure Super XV, Exposure CD (original), Rega Planar 3 (1986 - solid silver rewire), Dynavector DV20XH, Neat Acoustics Mystique II, DIY solid silver interconnects, DIY solid copper speaker wire.

Panasonic multibit, Verum, Etymotic, Elac, Pioneer, Schiit
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Same Old DD
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Re: Silver Everything?
Reply #12 - 07/22/22 at 15:10:13
 
Arpin, Live Music is where I grew up and where I spent a large part of my time, all the time I could, actually. Even made it my livelihood for eighteen years and about eight more years just helping out friends still in the business.

I can't compare this hobby with the real thing, but it is what I have these days. The music, live or canned is more important to me than the venues, so I reap all the joy I can from variety and quality of music.

The hobby interest takes the back seat when I hear music that stirs me, internally.
For me this works out OK, most of the time.
But, I have tickets to a metal band concert in October, so I have not shelved my needs completely, yet!

Then I'll return home and tinker some more.

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SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
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