Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet.  Have a new streamer and power plant coming.  So cable management has some work to do.  

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A

Wait was 4 days but I didn't get a t shirt.

Yes, that's the one I got.  Excellent seller.  I am very happy. thanks.

Thanks Brad, Just to make you more jealous, 30 days earlier I jumped on a great deal on a Rachel (SE34I.5).  I'll probably be giving someone else an opportunity to skip the line on it soon.  It was because I spent a month with it that I was ready to go on the ZMA. --Jerry

"Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet.  Have a new streamer and power plant coming.  So cable management has some work to do.  

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A"

Pretty sharp Carlsbad you snagged some great deals. I have a question for you about your table do you have glass on the table or just slats on its frame supporting your components on both shelves?

BicycleJoe,

Curious what streamer are you going with?


Brad,


Where is your ZBIT in your system? Also my amp is in the 20 waiting for Q.C.

Some kind of confusion my message was aimed at Carlsbad congratulating him on his bargain-hunting getting the ZMA and Rachel.

I was quoting his first post
" Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet.  Have a new streamer and power plant coming.  So cable management has some work to do.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A

My question to Carlsbad was about his table that was holding the ZMA and his other components. I wasn't sure but I thought perhaps there was no glass in the table and everything was suspended on wood slats.

I don't have a streamer but what I do have is a RACHEL on order along with a ZP3. 12 months to go while I get into room treatments.

Sorry BicycleJoe, my bad. 12 months will go fast.

Thanks Brad, when you get yours mine will just be broken in. Went with the level 2 anniversary mods. The UfO2 was a sweet deal ordering before the price increase. Switched to the full price Torii.

G' Morning Jerry

Years ago I had a neighbor who has an offroad truck fab shop weld me up a very simple table from 1" square tube steel.  I just cut wood slats from some quality hardwood I had left over buidling a gate.  I notched them so they can't slide off.

That's pretty smart

I'm looking forward to hearing about your power conditioner as I believe that's a weak link.of mine. Living in the city in a large apartment building, it's never really still or quiet, the buildings systems are above me on the roof. I hear them turn on every morning around 4 AM. Yesterday around noon I turned everything off in the house and just sat quietly listening and I felt my apartment vibrating.

I'm also skeptical that power conditioners will make more than a tiny difference.  And I'm not sure if I want a conditioner or a regenerator.

Good luck with the hunt
Bicycle Joe

Jerry,

Nice deal on the ZMA. Your Tekton speakers look good on those platforms.

Great buy! I was surprised how long that stayed on the market.

What is your experience with adding the PP10?

Power makes a massive difference. What the best route to go is hard to say. Different areas have different power. I have 4 boxes doing things to my power to get the best sound.

Torus AVR 15 -> Pi Audio UberBUSS -> Plasmatron 3 (2) I’ve also tried Wall -> UberBUSS -> Torus -> Plasmatrons both sound slightly different.

I also replaced 3 receptacles in the Torus. 1 Furutech NCF Rhodium, Oyaide R1, and Oyaide SWO- GX. They all sound different. I’m waiting 800 hours before making any solid comparisons as rhodium takes a long time to burn in.

The Torus AVR 15 regulates voltage 120V (+/- 4V). Also protects equipment from multiple power events. Decware amps are voltage sensitive. As are many components. I’ve measured the wall voltage from 111-124v in the last week. The AVR has done a good job of keeping the voltage out 117-118. Which I actually prefer over 120.

AVR is hooked up to my network so I can quickly check.

AVR Status
Voltage In:      116V
Voltage Out:      118V
Current Out:      2.4A
System is functioning normally

Torus also makes a non voltage regulating version.

DECWARE offers a solution too, the ZLC.

Power cables and fuses also make a significant difference.

BicycleJoe, When I’m in the city I feel the whole city vibrating: roads, sidewalks, buildings everything. What get’s me is the sway of some buildings.

Bicycle Joe,
I'm in Carlsbad, CA.  North san diego county.

the PP10 rectifies the incoming current and the inverts it back to a perfect sine wave.  Wow what an inverter.  (the junk inverters you buy for your motorhome often make a square wave.).

I am very careful to make sure that a power conditioning device (whatever it is called) does not limit current to the amp.  while my amp draws about 170 watts, if I sized my power supply for 170 watts it would sound horrible.  Amps need ready current to support dynamics and bass.  At least 1000 watts (5x faceplate).  I have a 10 wpc amp that sounds horrible with a 14 awg power cord, which should be more than enough.  

So one regnerator that I know is good is the PS audio, PP10.  I saw a thread where someone asked paul McG if he recommended a PP12 (new) or a PP10 (last generation).  He admitted the PP10 might be better for an amp.  PP12 apparently has new bells and whistles.

So yes, I would recommend the PP10.
Jerry

I ordered the ZPL yesterday after I talked to Steve and a few other people.
My apartment building has 120 apartments and is wired for Vios. Even at 3 AM this building is vibrating. Besides the noise on the line I'm concerned about Brown outs. But Steve says the RACHAEL could take the swing without damage. 14 months to design some room treatments.

Donnie,
Never underestimate Elon.  But I would suspect the inverter in the powerwall is below audiophile quality.  I am impressed as heck with the PP10 inverter.  but for routine household use, generally it is accepted that not such a great inverter is needed so it would probably be non-competetive to put an excellent inverter in a consumer product like the tesla powerwall.  --Jerry

Thanks everyone excellent discussion!

Donnie Wrote I keep wondering about how a Tesla Powerwall would work for clean power?

It wouldn't be hooked to the to the grid, so hopefully it would be quieter.

I suppose the inverter would need to be up to snuff, but I would think that wouldn't be insurmountable.

Is that a crazy idea?

Maybe Elon can offer 10th anniversary mods  :D

Quote:


Brownouts? No, blackouts are coming across the country starting this summer. One not need to wonder why.

Quote:


Hmm, when I use the quote function the default is the white background.  I assumed you were somehow changing it.  

Brad, on the plus side, I hear they play a mean pinball!

I find the quotes easiest to read. Quote:


The next 7-8 years we will experience more, and violent electrical storms. Space weather has been more intense in this cycle than recent cycles. The possibility of space weather causing a blackout is very real.

Spaceweathernews.com is a good place to learn more about space weather.

The Carrington Event 1859 was a major hit the earth took from a CME. It was so intense that telegraph stations continued to work after being unplugged and the batteries removed.

1989 Parts of the Quebec power grid failed because of a CME.

This year, Spacex satellites fell from the sky after a solar storm hit them.

The issue with things like solar is that the possibility of the solar panels and microchips will be destroyed in a direct hit from a CME.

DECWARE amps should be fine though

@bicyclejoe
Indeed the PS Audio regenerator likely has printed circuit boards.  So does your streamer, DAC, and practically every other component except a tube amp.  PC boards are bad in the signal path.  But nowhere else.  For power, we want clean power and the regenerator does it very well.  I will attach a photo of the screen on my PP10 showing the THD in and THD out.  Since I took this photo I have adjusted it and it runs consistently at .1% THD out.  https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e0yvdP10MopfqaRfAaR73eCg

What you want to look at for a power source such as a regenerator is anything that will limit power to the amp such as high output impedence that slows everything down.  I certainly don't agree with everything Paul McG says but he seems to have the power thing well understood (BTW, I'm a physicist).  I think if you drove over to Steve's place with a PP10 he would put his seal of approval on it.  

the PP10 also provides protection from brownouts.  It can bump the voltage up to 120 from some very low number, perhaps 95.  Below that it will shut off.  It also provides isolation from surges.

Now think about it however, if you are trying to protect your $2000 Rachel with a $5000 power plant, are you gaining anything?  The power plant can be killed by lightning etc.

Jerry

Brad, Not too late. Thinking about changing your order to a ZMA?

Quote:


No not really been busy these days. Delivery is tomorrow. Hopefully I have sometime to sit and enjoy the next few weeks.

You must be getting pretty close. Are you under 50 yet?


Ok I am getting excited!

Joseph

Sorry I didn't see the discussion on this thread.   I should have checked the box for notifications on this topic.

ZMA is sounding great.  I've been tuning it up and tube rolling.  First I installed a switch to go back and forth between the XLR and RCA inputs so I really have 2 sets of inputs instead of one set with double connectors.  While doing the rewiring, I replaced the signal wire with Mundorf Angelique wire and believe it sounds better.  

Next I changed a lot of tubes, my favorites are 7581A and 7027A.   I've also replaced the input tubes with EH 6922 and the driver tubes with old yellow label Western Electric 396A.   Very happy with the tubes and the amps performance.

The final upgrade I did will leave some of you in shock.  If you don't agree, just accept that we disagree.  I understand what I am doing.   I have replaced the input fuse with a solid copper jumper.  Shockingly, this made a huge difference.  I put the fuse back in when I'm rolling tubes and I make sure all my tubes are in good condition, but normal listening is without the fuse.  Tremendous increase in fullness, rich bass, and awesome soundstage.  We spend tremendous amounts of time, energy, and money improving the power supply and then we strain the electrons through a tiny filament (fuse).   The fuse is there for equipment protection, I can/will replace any components that fry. I do not consider this a fire risk.

Jerry

Love the Dave.  Initial impression of the M-scaler was that I didn't like the sound better than Dave alone.  So I've been listening without the M-scaler for a while.  I'll put it back in service next week maybe and give it another try but my first test nixed it.  May be for sale soon.

I have a friend with a Qutest and he loved it with his DAC.  He may end up with it but he may not.

Dave is the best DAC i've ever heard.  I spent more on it than any other component in my system and I'm very happy I did.

Jerry

Don't make a decision based on my opinion.  I'm just one guy.  I'll do more testing later and report back. good luck. -Jerry

Thanks Steve.  I appreciate the challenge.    

I'm picking out the parts to put continuous read-out k-type thermocouples on each input transformer so I can monitor it from my listening chair.  Not that I think I can save a transformer before it blows.  I appreciate your conformation that it is the transformers that are protected.  

I do have two large fire extinguishers in my adjacent garage (which is really a machine shop).  But I'd really expect the smoke to escape from the transformer without significant fire.  

Thanks for making great equipment,
Jerry

Carlsbad I'm sure you saw this but I thought I'd bring everybody's attention this thread by BAndrade is a must read as far as modifications go. I know I'm a newbie around here compared to members that have been around Decware for 20 odd years or more. I am constantly finding new information here in the threads.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1554416974

JBzen,
I'm not an expert at electrical protection but I work for a large electric utility and I have engineers reporting to me who are experts.  I don't know why high tech protection circuits haven't been integrated into amplifiers.  Decware builds affordable amps that sound great.  Other manufactures are more proud of how much they cost than how they sound and you would think they might incorporate such a design.

At our 1200 MWe generating facility the electrical protection room is the size of a small warehouse and full of relays and circuits that will take open switches as big as a house in microseconds.  

I'll add this to my list of things to research.

Jerry

I'm not sure what all the Decware modifications for the 25th anniversary accomplish. I know what bypassing the attenuator is, I have a on off switch for the tone stack on my Les Paul, so it goes direct out without hitting the T & V attenuators. I only have a vague idea of what Bypassing capacitors and other bypass upgrades really do. Could somebody explain it to me?

I ordered the upgrades and I understand type of metal and connectors make a difference. Why would one want to bypass a capacitor, I understand replacing it with something better or another value preference. I know how to voice an amplifier but why would you want to bypass it. Does this mean take it out of the circuit?
 

Carsbad Excelsior!

BJ, explaining the workings of capacitor bypass brings too mind trying to climb a slippery slope.

To put it simply. In a power supply the electrolytic caps are employed to smooth out the ripple produced by the diodes/rectifier. The bypass caps are employed to help block high frequency hash in the smoothed out ripple. The hash is present in the mains and not blocked out by the higher capacitance valued electrolytics.

If anyone else can further expand on this that would be great.

Quote:


I’m sorry but I don’t understand. Can you fill me in?

Thanks, Brad

OK. Carlsbad it's a piggyback and somehow the DNA of one capacitor improves the current passing through quality to an audible difference..

Quote:


Crickets provided the answer, thanks.

Brad

Jerry,

Very respectable post. Thank you.

And I agree.

You made my point. You did what alot people did. Get outside and enjoy nature, biking, etc….all suddenly became all the more popular during the planned scam-demic scare tragedy. People who stayed in their fear cocoon did zero to actually look into the matter and ignorantly believed the authorities and medical establishment who fell in line and sang from the same sheet of paper as their authoritarian govt masters coerced them into.

This is America indeed, and when someone puts something out there that just screams for a response from those who pay attention, then those people who pay attention are equally entitled to asking questions.

Brad

Quote:


Not so. The lower value bypass capacitors present a lower impedance to higher frequencies(hash) which are passed to ground eliminating the hash passing to the plates of tubes. The higher value electrolytics smooth out the ripple by shortening the rise and fall times of the ripple.

This might help visualize the bypass capacitor's routing. Pic of zkit circuits with anniversary bypass mods in violet.

The primary reason for "bypassing" the large value electrolytic capacitors with small value polypropylene caps is to handle the quicker demand pulses of the music.  Large caps are slow, small caps are fast.  We are speeding up the amplifiers which bring more resolution to detail.

Steve

Thanks for chiming in Steve. Your response provokes deeper thought which is great for better understanding the mysterious world.

I may be off my rocker here, but hear goes.

I can understand why electrolytic caps are 'slow' with static time constants being there is more electron/proton bulk to root thru. While poly caps are 'faster' with constants being there is a more thorough static exchange. But, what I don't see is why this would help with the pulse demand? Is not the bypass caps just further smoothing the ripple by targeting with different static time constants?

Anyone?

Nice Jerry! So if I place my hands on your PTs it would take 5 minutes to produce 3rd degree burns
I am going to place this on my plate of upgrades this winter and figure out a trigger to open up the mains in an event of overheating power transformers.

JBzen, I'd like to have a schematic like that for ZMA.  Is that published somewhere?

Jerry

JBZen,
So the power transformers could burn you if you kept your hand there long enough.  

The transformers are rated for continuous operation at some very high number like 90 deg C (it is in the BAndrade upgrade thread).  So the concern isn't the transformers.  The concern would be overheaing internal components.  Heat is never good for electrical components but beeswax melts at 62 deg C so fancy bypass capacitors would be the first concern.  now that's one reason the transformers are on the outside, so they won't heat the inside much.  While I wish the transformers were cooler, 50 C isn't a concern.

My real reason for the temperature indicators was for tube rolling and bias adjusting so I can easily see if I've made a change that causes a high temperature.  A tube pulling too much current would cause temperature to start going up and you might see it but the real concern is a tube failing to a short that will fail the transformer and that would happen too quickly to see the temperature change.

Temperature trips are not used much in electrical protection circuits although there are thermal overloads in motor control centers that will open up on sustained high current.  Still, I think you would be better off to work on a breaker that would open on high current.  Look at what size fuse you have and design a switch that will open on high current.

The problem you have to overcome is time.  Protection engineers are always looking at how many electrical cycles they can open a circuit in.  Breaker operating times for a short circuit are usually in single digit milliseconds.  Thermal overloads for a higher load are usually in seconds, perhaps 10 to 60 seconds at a high current.  I think it is really the short circuit we have to worry about.

Jerry

Jerry, my main concern would be keeping a fire from starting in the event of unattended running gear failure. My isolation platform is made entirely of wood. An amp is replaceable without too much disruption in life but home is a different story. Worse would be loss of life.

I too run my gear without protection but always present in the room when on. The only downside is warmup and break in of tweaks where presence is not desired. I use the CXNv2’s unbalanced outputs feeding another amp in my shop so no need to fire up Decware for that. Hence the interest in overheating protection.

Quote:


Talk about an oxymoron group of words.

I get it!

Back on rocker

Thanks for the update Jerry.

I found a good candidate for a temperature control switch. It has a isolated 30 amp contact relay, 110v input voltage, and 80f degree differential. Looks like a good hub to start with.. Will need some probe tweaking to use system wide.

KETOTEK KT8230 Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Regulator 120VAC 30A Fahrenheit -22~572℉ Heating Cooling for Incubator Brooder Refrigerator Fermenter Greenhouse Reptile https://a.co/d/4GCKN7K

JBzen,   I still think you're not on the right path trying to protect the transformers with a temperature signal.  Don't get me wrong, I think monitoring temperature is great and I really enjoy it but temperature is by nature a slow change.  By the time temperature raises enough to get to the trip setpoint, the damage will already be done, anything that might catch fire will already be on fire.  

To protect your amp from high energy events, I think you have to monitor current.  And you have to interrupt that current in a few microseconds.   A short circuit causes enough current to cause things to melt.   But the bulk of the transformer will heat up slowly.  

I'd like to see a circuit breaker or a relay that will open on high current in a few milliseconds.   I can't find one for sale.  There are lots of thermal trips.  Those are not to protect against a catastrophic failure.   They are more to protect a motor that is pulling to much current from failure.

Jerry

Update on temperature monitoring:   My power transformers temperature stabilizes at about 28 deg C above ambient.   For the first month that was 51 deg C (124 F).  That temp isn't bad at all.

Of course I leave the thermocouple displays powered all the time so I see the temperature go down when I turn off the amp and in the morning it gives me a reading of the ambient in my listening room which has been 23 C (73F) this summer.  51-23=28.  28 is the temperature rise.

Lately we've had a hot spell and my listening room went up to 28C (82F).  My amp peaked out at 56C, again 28C above room temperature.   It takes about 4 hours to reach max temperature but I often have it on much longer than that.

Jerry

Now I can add a photo to this photo thread.  my links in icloud expired.  I'm very happy to have moved away from apple.

Very nice, love the Tektons! Check out what this guy did to his Encores with felt panels around the mids and arrays. There's a bit of info the comment section. I have Pendragons with the 7 speaker array and the felt panels strike my curiosity. I've been rolling the idea around in my head for a few days, currently stuck on how to efficiently and effectively cut the holes in the fabric. Lucky for me I only have one array per speaker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKD20KmVmx8

I’ve got no clue if it has a positive effect, but I’m curious if it does. That’s all. Thought perhaps a fellow Tekton user would have an opinion. I saw that video a yr ago and it popped in my head recently. When I saw your setup, I figured I’d share it, that’s all.

As for filming a setup to convey “what it sounds like”, I agree it’s a not a great method.

From his description: "resulting in clearer imaging for mid and high frequency, better placement and seperation within the sound stage". But like you said, he never really followed up on it, then disappeared altogether.

The crossovers in the Encores? If so, I'd be interested seeing the originals vs what you come up with.