Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/28/24 at 14:22:02 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2? (Read 8251 times)
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
04/12/22 at 17:26:01
 
TL;DR Is there an amp, ideally < $1500, which could be considered close enough to an SE84UFO2 to provide insight into how other components will sound once it arrives
...
Due to life being what it is, I've been on the sidelines of the hi-fi community most of my life. I've had the opportunity to have decent speakers and components here and there... mostly focusing on headphones and a desktop setup... but never really had the situation to do much component exploration. However, I now have the opportunity to build a system from scratch with a budget of ~$8k... although I'd be happy to not spend every penny Wink

Over the last several months I've been ramping up my research and am really excited to build a system based on a SE84UFO2. I delayed ordering when the list was ~900 and alas now I'm ~1400 :/ While I'm more than happy to wait for it...  I don't really want that to delay me getting started in setting up and enjoying my system.

So this brings me to my actual question... Is there an amp, ideally < $1500 which could be considered close enough to an SE84UFO2 to provide insight into how other system components will sound once it arrives. I'm thinking that once my Decware amp arrives, this other amp could either be sold or used in a second system.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions!!
Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
Same Old DD
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1057
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #1 - 04/12/22 at 18:17:24
 
Hi, Clay,
I am mainly responding to your query to welcome you and also assure you that you are not being ignored by most folks here.

Your question is a tough one, though. I doubt that you'll find something close to what you are asking.

I have two older SE84C amps that I use in mono and I have found that either one, and most especially using both in mono mode, can power any of the speakers I own, regardless of the speaker design or published efficiency ratings.
I have a small room (12x14) and listen fairly close, but you may have differing plans.

I would suggest that instead of buying something else to tide you over, as a half measure, find a way to stay in line for the equipment you've already ordered.

Possibly turn your focus to identifying any other weak links you might have in your system, such as sources, iffy cabling, isolation of components, room issues, etc.

We'll see what some others can offer.
Good luck!
Back to top
 
 

SE84Cs Mono'ed, Lii Audio F15 OB, W15 "H" Frame Subwoofer, McIntosh MC2500, Lazarus Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, Kleenline Iso Power, Revox, Crown R-R, Pioneer Elite Digital Source
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #2 - 04/12/22 at 18:41:26
 
I'm in agreement that you may be better off going a different direction while you wait, as it will be challenging to find something comparable in the price range. Maybe intentionally selecting something with a different typology to mix things up, compare the SE84UFO2 to once it comes in?

Options include multiple SS types, maybe DIY tube, etc.... One option that could be fun is a vintage SE EL84 console convert amp. These are on eBay all of the time. I assume some are better than other as far as quality of the conversion to standalone amp. They can be picked up for a few hundred dollars. I have a Voice of Music "made" by Resounding Amplification (now retired) that is a fun little SEP EL84 amp. It is not in the same league as my SE84C+, but it sounds good for what it is and is what got me started on my tube journey. For that gift, I am grateful.

Of course you can always try to acquire used Decware, but they go very fast now, Jon.
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
jec3504
Ex Member



Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #3 - 04/12/22 at 19:12:39
 
Clay N,

Built a whole system when I ordered my SE84UFO2.1 a year ago. Glad I did. Learned a lot on the Decware forums and website. With a budget and a plan you'll go far.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #4 - 04/12/22 at 19:27:24
 
Thanks so much for the responses!... I had a feeling my request might be a long shot Smiley

I have a bad habit of being, what I call, preparalyzed when it comes to things like this. I over think everything and don't do anything instead of just doing something and enjoying it for what it is.

@Same Old DD : My room will be similar in size to yours and I like your idea of using the time to focus on tweaking other components and seeing how they work together. However, right now I don't have any speaker amp so to do that, I'll need to pick up something in the mean time.

@chapsjon : I have been rolling around the idea of exactly what you said... finding a ss or other tube amp and enjoying it while I have it in my main system and then once the Decware amp comes in, just using the other amp in my office as a second system. If, for some reason, I hate the way my speakers sound with the Decware amp, I will just use them in my office, knowing I already like them with that amp... or I can always try to sell them.

@jec3504 Thanks! There definitely seems to be no shortage of info here!! If you have any recommendations/tips based on your experience, please share.


Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #5 - 04/12/22 at 19:44:38
 
Clay N,

What amp are you using now? I have some thoughts, but wondering where you are coming from.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #6 - 04/12/22 at 20:01:17
 
@will : I'm quite literally starting from scratch... I have a completely blank slate Smiley I've moved a bunch over the years and eventually got sick of moving everything just to keep it in storage, so I sold off pretty much everything (mostly HT gear) except headphones and picked up a dac/amp for my desk. I'm looking to start over with just a stereo setup for now.
Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2190
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #7 - 04/12/22 at 21:53:53
 
I'll throw my hat into this ring.

How about keeping it in the family and get a ZKit 60?

Yes it has a lot more power, but the sound is very good and the price is right.
Buy it completely built or build it yourself.

You can't go wrong with it.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZKIT60.html
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #8 - 04/12/22 at 23:36:00
 
Thanks @Donnie! Someone else sent me a PM suggesting the exact same thing! I think that's the route I'm going to take Smiley  Before I knew this was even a thing I had already put the AVA SET 120 on my shortlist of potential amps to use while I wait...so I'm really happy you guys mentioned the ZKIT60!
Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #9 - 04/12/22 at 23:41:53
 
Just a question, as I don't know. Does the ZKIT60 have an attenuator or does it require a preamp? If it does, that is something to consider. Maybe your DAC would work as a pre for now.

Also, if you get it assembled, what is the wait time? Maybe you plan to order the kit, so might not apply...
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2190
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #10 - 04/13/22 at 00:01:58
 
Yes it has a attenuator.

I've had mine for several years now and truly enjoy the amp.

It has a lot of punch and bass out of the wazoo (Sorry for the technical term).

I'm thinking that Dan has upgraded it a bit and it even sounds better than my already stellar sounding unit.

Truthfully it would make a great placeholder for many of you while you are in the "waiting room". Or even as a endgame amplifier.
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #11 - 04/13/22 at 00:05:35
 
I was wondering the same thing about wait time… for what I’m trying to do I hope it isn’t in the same queue as the tube amps Smiley
Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #12 - 04/13/22 at 00:29:00
 
I find the ZKit60 interesting as well. I wonder if Dan Kuechle, the guy who introduced this amp builds them? If so, may not be a long wait like Decware. Could call Sarah and ask though.

I also have been half heartedly looking into chip amps again, half hearted because I have such a good sound, and a good backup amp also. But apparently some pretty big players are moving this way with expensive amps, so the tech seems to be getting better.

My only in-home experience with a chip amp was when I got a chance to audition a freind's DAL amp, I think with their retro chip. And I was impressed how good it sounded in my room. Unfortunately this amp had a bad hum in my system I could not solve with cables or lifting the ground, and it did not have hum in its home systems, so I was wondering if it may have been something gone haywire in shipping... That made it hard to audition in depth, but other than that, the amp sounded amazingly good in my system in the place my highly tuned up Torii MKIV.... not as good, but a nice resolving sound with nice balances all around, especially for a relatively low cost amp (I think this one was somewhere around 500).

I have not tried the amp linked below, but what I have stumbled across with Topping talk is good specs and value. So for an inexpensive ready to go amp, it might be worth a try being cheap and returnable according to the webpage. A very careful listening audio friend who mainly uses Decware said he really liked the sound of a different amp using this same German chip, his impression that the chip was a good one, and he has been using quality tubes a long time. And chip amps seem to be moving into better territories these days, seeming to be getting quite good with the right designs. So this might be worth a listen?

EDIT: sorry, I can't seem to get this link to cut and paste, but if you go to the following, and then click the Topping PA3s link, you will see it. Listing = Topping PA3s Fully Balanced Class D Power Amplifier 80W×80W RCA/TRS Input Desktop MA12070×2 HiFi

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=Topping+PA3&rh=n%3A281053&ref=nb_sb_noss
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
lazb
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 374
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #13 - 04/13/22 at 00:40:03
 
Apparently Steve does not stock the completed amp but an order and Dan gets to work building it out and it only takes him  a few days to get it assembled, tested and shipped. I just went through the process for one for my daughter and she loves it pushing her Tube Tots streaming through the Cambridge Audio CXNV2.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #14 - 04/13/22 at 00:53:07
 
I can't speak for the Topping, but I had a class D PS Audio Sprout several years ago. If I'd never heard one of my vintage SS (class A or AB) or my tube amps, I would have been happy. After hearing my Decware MT, I quickly sold the Sprout to fund other audio purchases.

The MT literally spoiled me and I simply could no longer enjoy the Sprout. To be fair, it rates highly as a class D amp, but to my ear, it seemed constrained and hard once compared to the MT. The MT was organic and alive in comparison. My other SS also are not quite Decware tube amps either, but they are far closer, I can enjoy them and find other things to appreciate in comparison to my Decware amps.

Of course this was my experience. I assume not all class D is equal, but I didn't enjoy it once exposed to Decware. The good thing about going with the Topping is that you should be able to return it if needed.
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #15 - 04/13/22 at 00:58:37
 
The SS I listen to most (Accuphase E-303) is MOSFET like the ZKIT60. It is also class A up to at least 10 watts. Sounds great! I know there's a price difference, but based on my experience with quality MOSFET vs class D, I would choose the ZKIT60 over the Topping.
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #16 - 04/13/22 at 03:13:22
 
Yes, I have used tubes so long, I am not up on other amp tech, so I don't know just how a "Class D chip" relates to normal Class D amps, but I trust the guy's perceptions who said the Chinese amp he tried with this particular chip sounds good, and he has been a tube user, mainly Decware for a long time.

Here is the beginning of the first review on Amazon:

"After reading Amir's review on Audio Science Review I took the plunge and ordered this unit. The sound quality is excellent. It's every bit as good as my class AB Rotel component system though it won't go as loud. "

I am not attached to this amp in any way, just suspect it could possibly be a good value amp to get by on for a while and not much cost to get there, so perhaps worth a listen if lower cost is attractive. Especially if one is a prime member, able to get it in days, and return for no cost if not suitable.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
SteveB
Senior Member
***


It's a fine line
between hobby and
mental illness.

Posts: 55
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #17 - 04/13/22 at 03:29:29
 
For those of you who are waiting for their stuff from Decware here is a toy to play with:

https://tubedepot.com/products/tubecube-7-stereo-vacuum-tube-amplifier

I stress that this is a toy. Unfortunately they are out of stock as of today, but they are pretty good at replenishment. I have one in my living room... until I eventually build my Zkit1 amps.

The original was called the Miniwatt M3. It is also sold under Appj and other brands. The Chinese company is willing to brand it any way you want if you buy them in bulk.
Back to top
 
 

SOTA sapphire turntable with Soundsmith the Voice cartridge
Schiit Jotunheim with phono card
Schiit Gungnir Multibit
1959 Motorola EL84 tube amp
Decware imperials with Altec 811b horns and Alnico drivers
Raspberry pi / Volumio as a streamer
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #18 - 04/13/22 at 03:53:27
 
Will, Thanks for clarification that there may be a significant difference between chip amp that is class D and more traditional class D. I have also heard that some high end class D can sound really good. I only have the one experience with the Sprout.

What I learned is that "good" is based on what you've heard. Without comparison I thought it sounded good. Once compared to Decware, I no longer thought so. I agree that a Prime member can't really lose, but my concern would be that it might sound good enough until the Decware arrives...
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #19 - 04/13/22 at 12:29:11
 
Will was being unnecessarily circumspect. . .  it is I who leant him the DALAUDIO amp, andI haven't put it in use yet since he returned it so I can't answer the hum issue at this time. It wasn't humming here before. I'll connect it up eventually to listen/use again.

Right now I am using in that system a Sabaj A20a amplifier, that uses a German chip, and is described as a Class D amp. It's a very fascinating cheap machine. It has a preamp section that can be bypassed. It has tone controls, and EQ modes. And it sounds great. I have had the Taboo Mk IV with the Anniversary mods sitting on a shelf for a few months now; this amp just pleases me. I mostly listen to Spectrum's "Jazz" channel for music in this system, and mostly it gets video use.  And that is where this amp really shines. I have an Oppo UDP-205, a ZBIT, a ZROCK2, and the CSP3 with the 25th Anniversary mods in front of it, and what wouldn't sound great with a ZROCK2 and CSP3 in front of it? In comparison to the Taboo it's a touch smoother, which allows me to enjoy the Oppo sound a bit more--it doesn't compare to the front end in my main system. Regardless it really is a nice-sounding amp. Input and speaker connections are not as robust as I'd like, you get what you pay for there. But once it's installed and running it's a really cool amp.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Melvin
Ex Member



Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #20 - 04/13/22 at 13:47:29
 
When I was waiting for my SE84UFO to be built a few years ago I purchased a couple of very inexpensive amps (integrated actually) to pair with my then newly acquired Omega Super 3i’s:

The APPJ PA0901A which APPJ no longer produces under it’s own name. As already mentioned, the TubeCube 7 is TubeDepot’s branded version of this amp. It isn’t bad at all, but not even close to the SE84UFO in fidelity, even with a tube upgrade. I see it as an inexpensive introduction to tubes. I kept mine BTW.

Fleawatt Audio TPA3116D2 is a lower-powered chip amp little gem over-built by Derek Sanderson. Derek has a ton of experience in the DIY community and builds these for the DIY-challenged (like me). I found this to be much closer to the Zen in fidelity than the APPJ despite its topology. I find the amp to be pretty neutral and more extended than the APPJ, hence closer to the ZEN, but not on par. I currently use it in my work system and the $250 spent was worth every penny. I almost purchased the ZKIT60 for the interim but cost was a factor. Kind of wish I did as I’d love to hear one.

Best of luck while you wait.


Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
EdwardT
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 365
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #21 - 04/13/22 at 15:38:38
 
After I sold our SE34I.4 I bought a HTA100BT from Parts Express to drive our inefficient speakers. I was surprised at how good it was, not Decware level but still quite good. I admit to leaning toward push-pull output designs so it's not surprising that I liked the combination of a tube pre and a solid state power setup. As you can see from my signature that has escalated to a pair of push-pull FET monoblocks and a separate tube pre that I think get very close to Steve's signature sound. Close and quite good but not quite there. The Freya+ allows me to listen to discs (my preferred medium) three ways: direct from the disc, thru a JFET buffer, or, through 6SN7 tubes which really illuminates the sterility of SS vs the warmth and depth of tubes. The FET power is very, very good and I’m guessing very close to the Zkit 60 although the Vidar has more reserve power.
That said, the $250 HTA100BT is an amazing value and a pretty good place keeper while you wait.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2190
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #22 - 04/13/22 at 19:01:07
 
Here is a link to my "Review" of the ZKIT60.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1578616588

Remember I'm not much of a critic, my writing style is closer to Mad Magazine as opposed to Stereophile. But you can glean the fact that I truly do love my "Dan the Redheaded Amp".
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
dank
Seasoned Member
****


pair of dual 18
Imperials

Posts: 418
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #23 - 04/19/22 at 21:17:52
 
Decware usually stocks one fully functional Zkit60.  Don't know if they replace it immediately after a sale though.

I have one Zkit60 built and one Zkit60 kit all ready to go.  So up to two Zkit60's could go out within days of receiving the order.  After that, its off to China to get the chassis (3 weeks est) and off to New Jersey to get the transformer (in stock - so about a week).  All other components I keep in stock.

Dan

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6234
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #24 - 04/20/22 at 03:49:05
 

We do keep one in stock, and try to replace it right away.  I can confidently say you wouldn't find a better sounding amplifier for less money.  In fact when it is driven with a tube preamp it sounds so good many people would cancel their order for the tube amp.  Bob Ziegler has a CSP and this amp as part of his daily listening regimen.  We think Dan should stick a 12AU7 on the input and keep the volume control between the two stages.  That would save someone 1500.00 for the tube preamp or $795 for a ZSTAGE plus cables and make the amplifier a serious contender with the Zen Triodes all by itself.  It's 60 wonderful Mosfet watts!

-Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Clay N
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #25 - 04/20/22 at 13:06:54
 
Wow thanks everyone for the input!! I've been mostly MIA for the last week due to some family things and hadn't had a chance to catch up on all the responses until now.

Since I initially posted this question, I ended up acquiring a Taboo mkIII (which I'm absolutely loving right now!). After some feedback from Steve (thank you!) I'm going to change my SE84UFO2 order to a CSP3 and that should give me a solid foundation for both speakers and headphones. Now.. with all this positive feedback on the Zkit60, my wheels are turning...

I mainly use headphones while I work... which is in the same room I am setting up for listening. I'm thinking I could have my Taboo running my headphones and desktop speakers (possibly Trapezium) ... and then a Zkit60 running my mains (leaning towards Tube Tots or some variety of Omega... once they start shipping again :/... If I got the the CSP3 with two stereo outs... I should be able to run lines to each of the amps and just turn on whichever one I am using at the time, correct?
Back to top
 
 

[Magna Mano Ultra mkIII > Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD se] [Clearaudio Concept > Musical Surroundings Phenomena] >Schiit Freya+ > Schiit Aegir (x2) > Zu Union 6

Black Ice Glass DAC > Decware Taboo mkIII > [Focal Clear / Audeze LCD2]
  IP Logged
EdwardT
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 365
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #26 - 04/20/22 at 15:34:59
 
I’d say that would work just fine, power up whichever set you'd prefer.

My search skills must be deficient as I see no answer: can a Zkit 60 be run as a monoblock? Seems like you'd need a xlr input to send each phase to the L&R amp sections.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #27 - 04/20/22 at 16:58:15
 
Clay N wrote on 04/20/22 at 13:06:54:
If I got the the CSP3 with two stereo outs... I should be able to run lines to each of the amps and just turn on whichever one I am using at the time, correct?


Correct.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 919
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #28 - 09/05/22 at 20:54:05
 
I was obsessing over a good stand-in amp that would get me close to the sonic signature of Decware’s Rachael, while I wait in line, and wanted to highly recommend the Dennis Had ‘Inspire’ family of amps.

Dennis Had is the ex-founder of Cary Audio and has been continuing to build point to point Class A single ended tube amps since he retired from Cary Audio over a decade ago.  So he’s been at it for a very long time (comparable to Steve) and his amps also have a very passionate following similar to Decware, though on a much more smaller scale.  Build quality is top notch.  He also started making a 300B amp recently that is also very highly regarded.

Anyways, the way he sells his gear is that puts up a listing on EBay.  Once you purchase it, he starts building/testing the unit from scratch and sends you some development pictures towards the tail-end of the build.  His amps also appear on the used market at a very fair price.

I pulled the trigger at the start of the summer and have been enjoying his Firebottle KT-88 Single Ended Pentode (SEP) amp, which simultaneously is a tube rollers dream and their worst nightmare.  It shipped with new production Psvane KT-88’s, a GE 5U4G Rectifier, and a NOS Raytheon 6SN7 as the input tube.  It’s auto-biased like the Decware units and accepts multiple permutations//combinations of output/input/rectifier tubes.  I will try and post a chart to depict that.  

Out of the 3 output tubes I’ve tried, I like the 6V6 the best so far (which also happens to be Dennis’ favorite tube as well) and at approx. 5-6 wpc, I think it is a close approximation to the 6 wpc Rachael that I have on order.  It sounds sublime in my rig giving me the confidence that the Rachael (or even a smaller output amp) would perform equally as well.

SEP KT-88 by Tube Dad, on Flickr

1A344253-BD50-42CD-A52D-D8ECE6BF03BD by Tube Dad, on Flickr

Had an opportunity to listen to an older Rachael recently in Canada and found it very comparable but I need to listen to both amps in my own rig to really compare apples to apples.  Figured I’d share this considering there are so many people waiting in line and this will be an excellent alternative choice as you wait.  Happy to answer questions.

Kamran
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #29 - 09/06/22 at 02:30:26
 
I always thought these looked interesting, but since I already have a Mini Torii, I never really entertained the Dennis Had amp. Though I am set with amps, I am curious how Dennis Had's implementation of SEP differs from the Mini Torii.

I don't know if you have tried a 6F6 yet but you might consider it. In my MT I go back and forth between 6V6 and 6F6. I enjoy both. I've been running 6V6 for awhile, so can't really give back to back impression, but from what I remember, 6V6 may do a somewhat better job on bass and overall tonal balance while 6F6 is a little more airiness.

I'd have to do back to back to be sure. When I was running 6F6 I didn't feel like I was missing anything, but when I switched back to 6V6 I do remember thinking there was more bass control. The reason I mention considering 6F6 is the price. Unless something has changed, they are about half the price of 6V6's.

I have said this elsewhere on the forum, but sometimes I find it hard to believe the MT is "only" 4 watts or so. Not sure if the Dennis Had is similar in that regard, but the MT drives speakers it has no business driving to relatively loud levels in my space.

Glad you picked up something so good while you wait!
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
johnnycopy
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 113
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #30 - 09/06/22 at 03:55:56
 
Kamrwn,

Owned the firebottle which came with kt88’s from Dennis.

ran multiple different tubes eventually settling on kt-150’s.

Better everything with those tubes was my experience

I had tried different brands of kt-88’s as well as other lower powered tubes but liked the kt150’s best

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 919
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #31 - 09/06/22 at 04:00:14
 
Thanks chapsjon, appreciate the recs.  Couple of thoughts in response:

1) I haven’t tried the 6F6 but will surely get to it.  I had highlighted 4 top power output tubes to try first:

A) KT-88 (which came with the amp as a default tube)
B) 6V6 (the one that I was most excited about—probably the most recommended pairing with this amp)
C) 807’s (in my rig now)
D) KT-77 (specially the new production Genalax that I keep hearing rave reviews about).

While I liked the KT-88, I fell in love with 6V6 from the word go and went down a tube rolling rabbit hole within that tube type.  I tried the much acclaimed Dutch Popes, the Italian Fivre’s, and the almost unobtainable French Visseaux.  While the Pope 6V6 is very famous, I kept hearing that the Visseaux was in a league of it’s own and very highly regarded by the few who had it and also on an audio forum to share their views.  As a result, it is very challenging to secure and often pricey when it does surface on the used market.  What I heard was TRUE on all counts.  Subsequently, I heard the Italian Fivre 6V6 and was blown away by how close it came to the Visseaux, for a fraction of the price.  I still remember how anxious I was when I put my first 6v6 in rotation, as this was going to be the litmus test of how a low wattage tube would perform in my rig.  I shouldn’t have been.  Not only did I find them more musical, but to borrow your term, they had no business driving my speakers in all registers the way they were doing.  The bass was at par (if not better) than the KT-88s!  I still shake my head thinking about it and it bodes well for the Decware amp—that it will have a very close (if not better) sonic signature.

For the past couple of weeks, I am taking a deeper dive in to 807s.  Currently playing as I type, is the British Ferranti.  While they are good tubes, they haven’t moved me (no pun intended) as well as the 6V6s.  I have ordered the RCA 807 this week—as they are very well regarded, perhaps in no small part due to being the originator of the tube.  

Next up is the KT-77/EL-34—haven’t pulled the trigger on it yet but I am certainly going to add the 6F6 to my rolling list right after.

This has also allowed me to play with rectifiers.  The amp came with GE 5U4G, but then I purchased the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and I like it better then the 5U4G.  I also acquired the French Mazda 5Y3 on Brent Jesse’s recommendation, specifically to drive the non GT variety of 6V6, of which only the Fivres fit the bill.  Tbh, I am not really sure if the Fivres sounded so good on their own or with the help of a well regarded rectifier.  At some point, I need to go back and pair the Visseaux with the 5Y3 to make and apples to apples comparison.  The only other rectifier on my radar is the much acclaimed Mullard 5AR4 from the Blackburn factory (circa late 1950’s/early 1960s). It is very expensive, so haven’t quite made up my mind yet.

I’ll be honest, this amp has given me pause on several occasions whether to even go ahead with my Decware order but the fear of missing out reigned supreme and I decided to stay the course, especially after being smitten with Steve’s 300B development thread.  I intend to make a final call after Decfest whether to stick with Rachael or switch to Sarah!
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 919
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #32 - 09/06/22 at 04:07:28
 
johnnycopy— thanks for your rec as well. I was a bit wary of the KT-150 as I have read divided opinions on it, but will eventually get to it, to hear for myself and to have a well rounded view of each output tube that Dennis’ amp supports.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
chapsjon
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 184
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #33 - 09/06/22 at 16:53:02
 
Kamran, It sounds like you have already made quite the tube rolling journey! I have really enjoyed the exploration process of tube rolling. Of course the MT doesn't have the rectifier options that your DH does, but I do have experience with an Adzam GZ32/ CV593 (made by Mullard, Blackburn)in my Zen84C+ and CSP2+ and can say it is fantastic. Another great find is vintage RCA 5V4 rectifier, which can often be found for less than GZ32's. I also use these rectifiers in my 1961 Fender Deluxe amp that I inherited from my dad. He swore by the 5V4 and GZ32 in this amp so I have stuck with them.

RE 6V6, the best I have tried is French made Mazda's. If I remember correctly, they were marked Visseaux somewhere, likely made in the same factory. I have yet to try Fivre but have heard good things. I have also had great luck with NOS US 6V6's, especially older RCA. That is my experience with 6F6 as well, all US NOS. Again, I wouldn't say they're better than 6V6, but a slightly different presentation and (because I'm on a budget) the price is right.

I have no experience with 807's as I don't have the required adapter. I may go there some day, but so far have been satisfied with 6F6 and 6V6.
Back to top
 
 

LR:Mini Torii+Wright WPP100 phono, CSP2+SE84UFO, Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303,Graham Slee Jazz Club, Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110, Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15
  IP Logged
BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
Seasoned Member
****


It's all in one
note, Just Listen

Posts: 534
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #34 - 09/06/22 at 21:39:57
 
Cameron as a intermediate while I wait for the Rachel a few months ago I bought a Rega I/O  SS 30 wpc with a decent phono pre.

Now with the refurbed JVC DD TT and my refurbed JBL 240Ti all hooked up I'm spinning vintage & virgin vinyl. I'm pretty much sated and content.
Back to top
 
 

"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 919
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #35 - 09/06/22 at 23:21:29
 
Joe, I had the pleasure of owning the Rega I/O’s biggger brother last year-the Rega Brio.  Fantastic integrated amp with a solid phone pre.  I stopped using my Schiit Mani phone pre afterwards.  But then that journey led me to Class A/B SS monoblocks (Schiit Aegir) and as of June, to my Class A Single Ended Pentode Dennis Had amp, that walks all over the Aegir monos.  I am sure the I/O sounds fantastic—IMHO Rena’s integrated are seriously underrated—all the attention goes to their turntables.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
Seasoned Member
****


It's all in one
note, Just Listen

Posts: 534
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #36 - 09/07/22 at 02:19:44
 
Lon Really likes his REGA Cartridge, it looks really nice just not sure if it would mount on my arm. Some folks have said it is very close to the record in the rear.
Back to top
 
 

"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
  IP Logged
Sinisster
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #37 - 09/13/22 at 11:56:56
 
I always liked the Schitt Aegir if I went solid State. Class A, can be run Mono with XLRs. High current. Made in the USA, not just built there, but most parts are made in Country from local manufacturers. https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir

As far as Tube amps. Im with consensus here that there isnt anything much that will substitute for a Decware with tubes. I had problems with Tube depot while buying tubes twice, so I no longer use them at all. Not to scare anyone off, just my anecdotal Two Cents about them.

In all I would get a good Vintage receiver from the 70’s. When the Decware arrives, you’ll have a beautiful Vintage Receiver to use elsewhere. Cant use it as a Desktop amp after though  ;D
Back to top
 
 

Decware SE84UFO2.1 x2 on order, Hot Rodded Sansui SP55a's(Caps & Tweeters), Boyuurange MT-34 (EL-34 Tube amp). Digital: WiiM mini, Geshelli Labs J2 Dac. Vinyl: Systemdek iix w/Adcom MC cart, Schitt Mani 2 Phono Stage.
  IP Logged
Kamran
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 919
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #38 - 09/13/22 at 23:35:35
 
Agreed on Schiit.  I ran balanced Aegir monoblocks, using their (also fantastic) tube preamp-the Freya Plus.  it is an excellent amp/preamp  combo to drive medium to high sensitivity speakers.  I used the Freya as a stepping stone in to the world of tubes and gained a lot of respect for NOS 6SN7s.  That experience led me to go all in, and I sold the Aegirs for Dennis Had’s Inspire Tube amp, which shares certain design philosophies  with Decware, not to mention similar respect for the founder.  That leap of faith was more than successful—the amp walking all over the Aegirs in all departments.  What would I give to be a fly on the wall in a room where Steve and Dennis are talking shop….

In short, the Had amp is helping me further prepare for the Decware journey w.r.t. experimenting with different rectifier and output tube combos.  Case in point—-excited to receive a 1958 Ameprex Bugle Boy branded Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 from the famed Blackburn plant in England tomorrow and compare it with my favorite Sophia Electric Aqua 274b rectifier.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Pulse-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE R2R-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-Project Carbon Debut TT-Schiit Mani Phono-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners
  IP Logged
Sinisster
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Re: Stand-in amp while waiting for SE84UFO2?
Reply #39 - 09/14/22 at 20:35:18
 
I look forward to Testing Rectifiers.  The Sophia I've heard great things about.  I really don't want to use, EQ's I mess with it too much.  Due to Tube Rolling's nature(just like playing vinyl, as Ill listen to a full album before changing it)I will most likely change the sound for a bit, and go back, and forth as I grow tubes, but actually take the time to enjoy it.  A socket saver is needed for sure. Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Decware SE84UFO2.1 x2 on order, Hot Rodded Sansui SP55a's(Caps & Tweeters), Boyuurange MT-34 (EL-34 Tube amp). Digital: WiiM mini, Geshelli Labs J2 Dac. Vinyl: Systemdek iix w/Adcom MC cart, Schitt Mani 2 Phono Stage.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print