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Omega Vintage 8 HO (Read 4127 times)
JOMAN
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Omega Vintage 8 HO
03/08/22 at 22:20:40
 
Just unboxed my new Omega Vintage 8's, haven't hooked them up, only put them on my custom stands , less grills, to see how well we did in making them...

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Geno
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #1 - 03/08/22 at 22:39:34
 
Just beautiful!!!  And the stands are perfect!

I know you’re excited. Keep us posted on how they sound as they break in.

Best,

Geno
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CAJames
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #2 - 03/08/22 at 22:53:45
 
Sweet!

FWIW when I was breaking in my SAMs (resplendent in Macassar Ebony) I played very low frequency (20 - 30Hz) tones overnight. They really got the cones moving but generated very little sound so no problem playing them while everyone was asleep. My speakers sounded great in just a few days. Maybe that will work for you.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Doug
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #3 - 03/09/22 at 01:05:57
 
What fantastic looking speakers!!!
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Joey
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #4 - 03/09/22 at 01:26:49
 
They look fantastic and will sound even better. I have the jr. xrs 8s.
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kulafu
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #5 - 03/09/22 at 01:56:08
 
John, congrats!  You are a patient man with that long wait!  And I am enjoying the ones you sold me!
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #6 - 03/09/22 at 05:28:46
 
Well, I just spent most the night trouble shooting my amp, bummer!  Problem on the left channel.  It's not the tubes.  I'm going to check with Steve in the morning.
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #7 - 03/09/22 at 14:03:52
 
Hey Bob,

Glad you're enjoying the S3HOXRS. Once I figure out what the problem is with the UFO25 I'll post what I think of how they sound.  I changed only because visually the S3HOXRS were competing far too much for attention in the new room.  These are satisfying that one complaint very nicely.

AND... they have a nice retro look, make me feel like I'm 25 again, that's saying a lot! Grin  Thanks everyone for your comments!
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kulafu
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #8 - 03/09/22 at 15:26:24
 
Bummer on the amp.  I hope that it is a quick fix.
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #9 - 03/11/22 at 01:57:11
 
It wasn't the amp!  Finally figured out.  It was a non connection of the spades to the binding posts on the left speaker.

My cables are the ZSTYX terminated with Furutech FP-212-G bananas on the amp end and Furutech FT-211-G spades on the speaker end.  The Binding posts ar Furutech FT-865-G (now available in Rhodium only).  

These are low mass connectors on a stiff speaker cable. If the cable is not formed so that the spades do not go onto the binding post so that they are flush with the binding post contact area - no contact no matter how much you tighten the posts, and you can only tighten them so much.

So the Vintage 8 HO are now breaking in.  My first comment is that when Louis said that the Vintage 8 HO's were like the S3HOXRS on steroids he was not kidding!  More to come.

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kulafu
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #10 - 03/11/22 at 17:02:22
 
Cool!  Glad it was an easy fix!  Happy listening! And the subsequent reporting!
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #11 - 03/12/22 at 02:09:13
 
OK, 10 hours into the break-in.  Wasn't planning any updates yet but I just rolled the input tube on my UFO25 and WOW!!!  Speed is close to the S3HOXRS with the room filling dynamics and hit that is way beyond expectations.

Can't wait to get to 50 hours on these BAD BOYS!
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Joey
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #12 - 03/12/22 at 03:38:58
 
Are you planning to use a sub with these?
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #13 - 03/12/22 at 04:28:10
 
Too early to say Joey for a couple of reasons.  My initial impressions are that a sub for mid bass augmentation and hit will not be necessary at all. The frequency response on these is 40-20K.  Not many instruments go below 40Hz.  But then there's the drop off to consider and these seem to be very solid and have very good head room down to 40Hz.  I do have a ZRock2-A as well.  Lou told me to give it 100 hours for these to break in and depending on the type of music that is played it could take up to 200 hours.

However, a sub for the purpose of low frequency extension is another matter and somewhat tantalizing because these are the type of speakers that it would make sense to consider TWO subs not as a "fix" for anything or to make up for anything but to extend into the 20Hz range.  It would give a low base foundation and the size of these is such that I could fit a couple of subs in the room.  Simply put it would be a want not a need.

Before I would do that I do want to do some room treatment that will satisfy the WAF.  So it won't be much but it will help. Then there's the budget to consider.  I do want to get a streamer, which will likely be a Lumin U1 Mini and possibly a Holo dac.

So the jury's out on the subs, and it would be two.  

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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #14 - 03/14/22 at 02:14:58
 
Twenty some hour update:  Man O Man are these shockingly deceptive!

I talked with Louis many times and exchanged a number of emails trying to come up with a suitable replacement for the S3HOXRS in a smaller, less visually imposing size.  I did not want to give up much if any of the RS5 speed and I did not want a dynamic speaker that had "boxy" characteristics.  The Zen OB are too big and after exchanging emails with Randy I felt that the Caintuck were not going to cut it for me.  

The Omega Vintage 8 HO think that they are a planar speaker.  They remind me of my Maggies only better, even at only 20 some hours, and much faster than my Maggies even if they are not quite as fast as the RS5 drivers. The difference in speed is minor.  The decay is as good with more body.

They are positioned 27" from the wall and the sound stage seems like its another three to four feet back past the wall, totally room filling and very wide.  The boxes totally disappear!  A friend who is a musician and does some of his own recording had a quick listen yesterday and he remarked on how room filling they are and on their imaging and separation.  In this regard they do best the S3HOXRS, and that's saying a lot.

The break in has not been difficult, so far.  At first I thought that they were not all that fast.  I rolled the UFO25 input tube.  I put the Amprex 6DJ8 BB in and any worries vanished.  (I was going to sell that tube, not happening now!)

These are not on the Omega site.  Louis told me that these are more from the "custom shop" and that they are a lot of work.  I can vouch for the quality of the workmanship.  The grain of the Macassar Ebony is matched from the top to the sides.  OUTSTANDING!  I think that he's only made three pair so far.
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #15 - 03/25/22 at 22:48:19
 
Time for an update... especially after last night's listening session.  I have to qualify what I'm about to report with the fact that as the Vintage 8's are breaking in I'm also burning in Cryotone tubes which are also making a significant difference.  More on those in another report.

I've got 40-50 hours on the speakers.  Last time I posted I talked about the sound stage which is simply outstanding and unexpected.  Now about the layering and separation within the soundstage.  I listened and watched a couple of concerts, Joe Bonamassa at Carnegie Hall and the Black & White concert.

The separation between instruments and between voices is unreal.  It's not something that I had to analyze or listen for.  It just hits you.  with everything that was happening the separation between the voices of the background support singers was so obvious that at one point I muttered "how's this possible!".  Yet, everything is presented in harmony, a unified whole.

As for the bottom end... I won't need a sub, for sure.  Only reason for it is if I would want extension below 40Hz.  Bass guitars and the bass drum is easily heard and felt in harmony with everything else.  I do have a ZR2 but it's not turned up as much as it was before and the Bias switch on the UFO25 is now in the low position.  I did turn up the the volume a bit on the amp.

As far as the sound itself, that will have to wait for another 50 hours.  What I will say is that even at this point in the break in it's better than expected as well.



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CAJames
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #16 - 03/26/22 at 04:47:47
 
Quote:
Posted by: JOMAN      Posted on: Yesterday at 22:48:19

...The separation between instruments and between voices is unreal.  It's not something that I had to analyze or listen for.  It just hits you.


Yes! That is exactly the thing I get with my Super AlNiCo Monitors and my UFOs. Whether it is a symphony orchestra and chorus or a jazz combo or each individual guitar string on a solo guitar every detail present, and in exactly the right place and at the right relationship to the rest of the sound stage. It is both inviting me to focus on any specific detail and at the same time not calling attention to itself or distracting from the total musical experience. I think Omega speakers and Zen triode amps are one of the great combos in the history of home music reproduction.

FWIW your breakin experience is very different from mine. My speakers were almost unlistenable for the first 20 hours and didn't start sounding "good" for over 60. But I was playing very low frequency test tones over night so it only took a few days to get past the ugly sound and into the promised land.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #17 - 03/26/22 at 19:53:11
 
Joman,
You indicated they are "room filling".
Curious - how large is your listening space?

Also, what are the dimensions of the speaker?
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #18 - 03/26/22 at 21:41:07
 
The speaker dimensions are 24"Hx14"Wx11.5"D.  The stands have 8 degree angle and at the highest point the total height is 32" (at best).

The room is T shaped.  Ceiling is 8',  the longest dimension is 25' x 13'W.  The The entry space is 12L'x8'W.  This section is what makes the are a T shaped area and it joins the main area in the middle of the 25' length.

The main listening area is to one side of the entry section, the speakers point across the width.  The other side is the bar and a rather large prep/cooking section.  You could think of it as a multi purpose living area with the focal point being entertainment.

I should qualify "room filling" as it relates to the soundstage.  When talking with Louis before making the final decision he mentioned that he prefers the front baffle to be wider than the depth of the speakers.  The reason for the floor standing speakers having a narrower front baffle is that is what is in vogue, so to speak.  This comment made me think of the wide OB type speakers and the Maggies that I had.  These speakers do have a sound stage that is very much like the planar type speakers with imaging that is like smaller speakers.  Vocalists and musicians are positioned in the entire height of the room.  A contradiction if you will.  Also of note is that I'm playing these at a lower volume setting to get this effect.

The sound stage begins well behind the speakers as if the wall behind isn't there.  It extends and fills the entire width and goes well past the sides of the speakers.  I do not have to imagine myself sitting within the venue, I feel that the space now is the venue.  If your sitting at the bar which is well to the side of the listening area the soundstage doesn't collapse.  The perspective that I get makes sense, so to speak.  The kicker is that the room is not treated yet.

As CAJames mentioned the break in at the very beginning was less than pleasant although it seems that these started to open up sooner than his.  It was a bit of a rollercoaster ride in the first ten hours and they still need more time.  One thing that I think made a difference and made the break in more bearable and actually very, very listenable was when I replaced the 6P15P-EV with the Cryotone EL84's.  I also replaced the rectifier in the UFO25 with the Cryotone 5AR4 and the tube in my ZR2 with a Cryotone 12AU7 long plate.

Talking about a rollercoaster ride, if something is going to go wrong it seems that it's going to happen to me.  The Cryotone E88CC lost vacuum due to a small crack in the glass at one of the pins.  Bummer I thought as I was really liking the entire complement of Cryotone tubes in the UFO25.  

So now what...While waiting for the replacement and additional order of tubes for my CSP3. I replaced it with a Amprex BB 6DJ8 which never sounded better and finally I have my Valvo PCC88 D getter in that position and it never sounded better.  I had written off both of these tubes.

The point is that these speakers at this stage of break in are as fast as my previous S3HOXRS and let you hear everything that is going on up stream with added body, solidity and a more expansive, room filling, soundstage at lower volume.  Also they cost more, so they should sound like "they're on steroids" as Louis said.

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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #19 - 04/17/22 at 02:19:49
 
Recently there has been some discussion of what VR tube members are using in the input tube section of their UFO25.  Currently I'm using a Raytheon OC3W. I decided to pull out some OD3 and compare those with the OC3.

What started out as a comparison of the VR tubes has turned into an update of the Omega Vintage 8HO's.  About 60-70 hours on them now, perhaps a little more.  Simply stated there was little analysis and a whole lot of FUN!  As I changed VR tubes I could not ignore what the speakers were doing.

Earlier I checked the label on the back of the speakers to respond to a post and noticed that the 8" drivers have the designation of RS8.  If you have had a chance to hear the RS5 drivers you'd get the connection.  These are incredibly FAST 8" drivers that deliver more of everything and at this stage are never harsh, brittle or edgy.  Of course that is also dependant on the upstream components including the tube sets as these speakers are very transparent, very revealing.

The bass is really starting to come in at this point.  The Bo Diddley beat played around the toms on "Calling Elvis" made it obvious that no sub is needed.  WOW!  The seat cushions and arm rest were vibrating.  On the cut "When It Comes to You" I actually got my Stetson and put it on.  If you had the opportunity to listen you'd understand.

This was pure music presented with all the audiophile superlatives in a manner that made them obvious but not the point of the presentation.  Whatever preconceptions you have of speakers of this shape and design, do yourself a favour and wipe them out of your mind before you listen.  If you do that it'll hurt less as these speakers force that reality on you.

Are there speakers that will do certain things better?  Probably.  But I've yet to hear ones that are so much fun!  The one thing that I don't get is why these are not on the Omega site!



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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #20 - 05/10/22 at 05:06:52
 
So a final update on the Omega Vintage 8HO...

They are not fully broken in but far enough along at this point for me to be able to comment with confidence especially as I've been rolling Wathen Cryotubes during this period and this has given me a very good handle on their character.  The post office has delayed getting the additional tubes that I ordered.  This has given me time to reflect on the experience thus far.

In the past I've commented on the various Decware components and speakers and now I find it difficult to express what I'm experiencing without using the same adjectives or expressions and doing that is not going to give a good understanding of how these speakers are different and what they're all about.  

If I were to say that these are incredibly fast, well, I said the same about the S3HOXRS.  So are they as fast? Almost as fast? Not quite as fast?  If I were to say that you don't need a subwoofer with these, if I recall, I also said that the bass on the ERR's and S3HOXRS was satisfactory.  So is the bass on the Vintage 8HO slightly better?  Do they give somewhat more bass headroom and is that all there is to it?

Well, I I have to try to say something.  I'll start off by saying this... The Omega Vintage 8HO are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.  Put them on your short list.

They do what the S3HOXRS do but on a totally different scale.
They do what the ERRX did only on a completely different level.
They're a box speaker that presents sound in the same way that a planar speaker does only with superior dynamics and greater authority.

They embody the key characteristics of different speaker technologies, combine them in a coherent manner and in doing so make it extremely difficult to explain what they do.

But I have to try to say something more.  Here goes... They are a portal, not window, but a portal on the music.  They're also a portal on your upstream components including the tubes that are in the components.  They do exactly what I want a speaker to do.

As far as bass goes... boy do they do bass!  They also do separation, nuance,  a layered and expansive soundstage, convey timbre, emotion and are just sheer fun.  They don't just disappear.  They can vanish relative to the expansive sound stage but the boxes are still visible.  Boxes of this size can't do that, right?  But they do!

Are they the very best at all of the above???  I don't know and that's not what I'm saying.  For me they're so good at all of the above that I'm not wanting for more.  So what's the down side?  They can seriously mess with your mind because box enclosures are not supposed to be able to do what I've stated to the degree that the Omega Vintage 8HO do.
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Joey
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #21 - 05/11/22 at 02:12:48
 
Thanks for the update. I hope Lewis can get back up to speed in a couple of months. The Omega brand is such an asset, taken for granted until it's gone.
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #22 - 05/11/22 at 03:57:24
 
Hey Joey,

What's happening with Louis??? I was going to contact him to let him know how much I'm enjoying the Vintage 8HO.
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Joey
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #23 - 05/11/22 at 12:55:45
 
He has temporarily suspended all incoming orders until 7-18 in an attempt to catch up with the current demand. I'm hoping this is not an indication of a "new normal".
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #24 - 05/11/22 at 19:57:47
 
I just saw the announcement.  I hope it is not as well but even in our market segment the same issues exist.  In 2020 I bought my wife's car and took delivery seven months later at which time I was told "it's a good thing you bought when you did.  It's going to be a while before any more will be available".

Glad that I ordered the Vintage 8HO when I did!  Couldn't be happier with them.
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slop
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #25 - 05/12/22 at 21:34:09
 
Great review on fantastic speakers. How does the height of the soundstage compare to the 3xrs HO, considering the vintage sit quite a bit lower? Does the whole stage seem to sit a bit lower? Thanks
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #26 - 05/13/22 at 19:15:48
 
That's one of the things that really can mess with a persons mind, the sound stage.  It is not lower at all when I'm seated and if I stand it hardly changes.

The key are the stands.  JBL L100 speakers were of the same size as are the KLH Model 5.  The KLH are slightly taller.  The stands angle both speakers 8 degrees higher in the front from the back.  My stands are custom made with dimensions based on the JBL and KLH stands.

These are large monitors and could also be placed on a vertical stand of the right height.  Or they could be angled as the Klipsch Heresy are.

Right now my speakers are 9' apart measuring centre to centre.  About 30" from the wall.  My seating position is 9' back.  at that position the the entire presentation extends from the floor to the ceiling and at times beyond those boundaries in that the walsl just seem to disappear.

Before posting this reply I decided to turn on the system and listen to Dire Straits - You and Your Friend (what a mistake, I'm trying to work).  Anyway, stone cold, standing in the centre of the speakers 3' in front of them Mark Knopfler is at my height.  The instruments are a little lower but the sound is coming from a point behind the speakers! Almost as if your in a venue that the stage is a little lower than you.  If I walk so that I'm at my seating position Marks voice is stable at the same height as before (my height)  and the instruments are now higher, as if you have walked towards the stage.  If I'm seated, ceiling to floor, front to back, walls disappear as if I just sat down in the venue  a little front of centre.  Turn up the volume a bit and the perspective changes so that there's hardly any difference in relative height at all when you're standing.

The S3HOXRS are similar without a stand going from memory, perhaps with less shift at lower volumes when your standing.  Hope this helps.  

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slop
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #27 - 05/13/22 at 20:33:36
 
It makes sense and certainly helpful. Sounds like they throw a wonderful soundstage! Great set os speakers!
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #28 - 05/18/22 at 04:53:19
 
Joman, I'm curious about the dynamics of this speaker and Omegas in general.
Any idea how they would compare to say, Zu or Klipsh?
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Torii MkIV w/ 25th ann mods
Rachael SE34I.5
Benchmark AHB2
ERRx
ZStage, ZRock2
Tascam CD-240
Border Patrol DAC
Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Bluesound Node
Zu Audio Mission speaker cables
Decware I/Cs
PI Audio MiniBUSS
Zenhead, Grado 325e
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JOMAN
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #29 - 05/18/22 at 21:04:02
 
Hey Tommy,

I have not heard the Zu and it's been quite some time since I have heard the Klipsch.  I was thinking about getting the new Heresy speakers before I decided on the Vintage 8HO.

By way of qualifying my comments please keep in mind that the speakers are still in the break in period and to complicate things I'm rolling the Cryotubes.

These are very dynamic speakers both as far as macro and micro dynamics are concerned. They are able to convey subtleties and nuance, start and stop on a dime, so to speak, without distorting.  The contrast between background  instruments or singers can clearly be heard from the "centre stage" performers and in a group of background singers individual voices can be distinguished at the same time.

In the Dire Straights, On Every Street remastered CD the first cut "Calling Elvis" starts off with clear definition and density.  At first there's seems to be a lack of bass, until the Toms kick in.  I recall my first thoughts when I heard the Toms... "what H just happened".  This is not chest crushing bass.  It's not so defined that you hear the initial strike of the stick on the head.  You do hear the initial strike in full resonating room filling bass strike immediately followed by a deepening resonating bass note through to the decay.  It's clearly obvious that a Tom was struck.  Rim shots so clear and complete.

I am quite surprised that 8" drivers can be this fast, BUT... always a but...

They are revealing, they do shine a light on up stream components including tubes. The difficulty right now is knowing whether I'm hearing the limitations of the upstream components or the stage of break in that the Vintage 8HO are in.  I suspect it's both.  I do feel that with these speakers I will changing the source which is a ZDSD.  After reading Steves posts on the May DAC, I am looking into R2R DACS and setting a budget which, by the looks of it, will be at least double the cost of the ZDSD.
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CAJames
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #30 - 05/18/22 at 22:13:13
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tommy Freefall      Posted on: Today at 04:53:19
Joman, I'm curious about the dynamics of this speaker and Omegas in general...


So, like Joman I have never heard a Zu and its been a long time since I heard a Klipsh. I have the Super AlNiCo Monitors driven by a pair of UFOs, and the first thing I'll say is you're not going to get a Who concert experience with a 6 1/2" driver and 5 watts per side. But it my smallish, untreated zoom if you crank it up these speakers hit way above their weight, and have real musical bass down to the high 30s. But where they really excel is speed and transparency. The speaker they remind me of the most are the Martin Logan Sequel IIs that I had to sell when I moved 30 years ago because they were too big for my room. Its kind of a cliché  but the SAMs (at least in my system) have the speed of an electrostatic and they dynamics of a conventional driver. My memory of the Klipsh is they sounded big and dynamic, but was a little lacking in subtly when compared to other top of the line speakers. I know a lot people swear by them but they aren't my cupa' so take that FWIW.

Now, about all the transparency.

Quote:
Posted by: JOMAN      Posted on: Today at 21:04:02

..They are revealing, they do shine a light on up stream components including tubes. The difficulty right now is knowing whether I'm hearing the limitations of the upstream components or the stage of break in that the Vintage 8HO are in.  I suspect it's both...I am looking into R2R DACS and setting a budget which, by the looks of it, will be at least double the cost of the ZDSD.


So I went through almost exactly the same thing, except I was sure my speakers were sufficiently broken in. Decware + Omega told me  I wasn't getting my monies worth with my old digital front end, the difference between it and LPs was just too big. So long story short now I have a Denafrips Terminator 2 DAC + Gaia DDC and a Jay CDT Mk3 and no regrets at all. I feel like after almost 40 years of chasing digital no longer sounds like a compromise. The only thing that could possibly be better is replacing my UFOs with the 25th anniversary edition I ordered last Black Friday but they are still a year or more away from my listening room.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #31 - 05/18/22 at 23:19:19
 
I think that my experience will be much the same.  With Omega speakers the difference with bass is in the High Output configuration.  Two drivers instead of one.

The bass with the Vintage 8HO is very palpable.  Again, not chest crushing but even at moderate volume in my medium size room it's way more than I expected.  I can feel it under my feet at times which are on a concrete floor with a floating cork floor and a large 9x12 hand knotted rug under which there is a rug pad, and this with the speed and transparency that CA James describes.



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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #32 - 05/19/22 at 03:37:22
 
I have the Jr. 8XRS towers in my study app. 12 by 16' powered by UFO2 with 25th mods. Pontus2 dac balanced out to zbit-zrock.
In my exercise room I use Cornwall 2 with Aric300B amp. Last week, out of curiosity, I took the Omega's to the ex. room 25 by 31 with sloped ceilings to 14'. I wasn't expecting much from the mismatched arrangement but after some placement adjustments the little 8's really sounded way bigger and better than they should have with the bass going as low as the CW's, although not as big. The highs were a bit rolled back and thats not such a bad thing because even with the smoothness of the 300B, the CW's can get a little edgy on some recordings (jazz).
The dynamics were on a smaller scale but still able to convey 80% compared to the CW. No sane person would set up a room this size with a single 8" driver speaker, but,, you could.
Now back in their proper room, these modest little boxes are giant killers. I didn't need the zrock but already had it in the other room before I got the 300. The bass is unreal on some material, I'd guess mid 30's. The only caveat is that if you get the "upgrade" bug, You just may find yourself going backward instead of forward.
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #33 - 05/19/22 at 03:42:19
 
Quote:
Joman, I'm curious about the dynamics of this speaker and Omegas in general.
Any idea how they would compare to say, Zu or Klipsh?


The dynamics will be different from both. More intact, more believable when doing intimate/serious listening from the chair. The reason is because Omega doesn't use tweeters and always runs the main full-range driver crossover-less. There is no baffle-step compensation / crossover parts to effect the sound. Also the dynamics / speed of each note which is to say the rise time, is the same on every note from the lowest mids to the very top. With a tweeter the speed gets faster on highs and then transitions to something 10 times slower on everything else which is less natural sounding during playback.

Having the upper bass, mids and highs all at the same speed is what defines single driver sound. Also, you have a point source. This is why the sound stage is so intoxicating with a UFO25. You will hear the amplifiers magic spell easily. It happened before with the 4 inch drivers in the narrow baffle, but that design lacks projection and weight. Having the larger drivers in the wider cabinet project the sound and give the midrange smoother response.

The better the speaker is, the better the amp will mess you up. Or put another way the better the music will mess you up as the amp steps into a high dimension and takes itself out of the direct path between music and listener.



              





   
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #34 - 05/19/22 at 04:06:07
 
Quote:
Posted by: JOMAN      Posted on: Yesterday at 23:19:19

...With Omega speakers the difference with bass is in the High Output configuration...


FWIW perhaps the biggest difference with my upgraded digital is the bass. Not so much more or deeper, although there was some of both, but just so much better. Much clearer and more detailed but also natural. It put the music on solid foundation if you will. Of course the sound improved across the board, in every way, but the bass was especially noteworthy. The number crunchers say jitter hurts bass the most, and while I haven't worked out all the math myself I'm inclined to believe it based on my experience.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #35 - 05/19/22 at 11:32:53
 
Quote:
Or put another way the better the music will mess you up as the amp steps into a high dimension and takes itself out of the direct path between music and listener.


Thank you Steve for this comment, I thought I was loosing my mind last night over this very... phenomenon.  Shortly after getting the Vintage 8HO's I started rolling Cryotubes and, admittedly, I've been pushing the envelope with my choices of tubes to experiment with.  Yesterday I received another adapter to experiment with rolling a 12AU7-WCL in the input position of the UFO25.  

This is not just about the tube.  It's about the UFO25 with the tube (complete complement of tubes) and the Vintage 8HO speakers being physically or visually completely disconnected from the scale and dimensionality of the sound stage, the sound that was emanating from within this sound stage and the placement of the instruments and vocalists within the sound stage.  

I'm not talking about a holographic effect per se.  It's as if the UFO25 and the vintage 8HO's had conspired to eliminate themselves from the direct path to the point that it seems as if they were not at all involved despite being physically and visually in the room.  

Finally I ignored them and started to engage in the stage and the music within.
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #36 - 05/19/22 at 11:41:44
 
I think of this as "You are the microphone."
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #37 - 05/19/22 at 11:54:19
 
John, if I may ask, where did you get the adapter for the 12au7WCL?
Bob
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #38 - 05/19/22 at 12:28:02
 
Quote:
The dynamics will be different from both. More intact, more believable when doing intimate/serious listening from the chair. The reason is because Omega doesn't use tweeters and always runs the main full-range driver crossover-less. There is no baffle-step compensation / crossover parts to effect the sound. Also the dynamics / speed of each note which is to say the rise time, is the same on every note from the lowest mids to the very top. With a tweeter the speed gets faster on highs and then transitions to something 10 times slower on everything else which is less natural sounding during playback.

Having the upper bass, mids and highs all at the same speed is what defines single driver sound. Also, you have a point source. This is why the sound stage is so intoxicating with a UFO25. You will hear the amplifiers magic spell easily. It happened before with the 4 inch drivers in the narrow baffle, but that design lacks projection and weight. Having the larger drivers in the wider cabinet project the sound and give the midrange smoother response.


Well written Wink
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #39 - 05/19/22 at 12:35:26
 
Hey Bob,

Here's the link:
https://pulsetubestore.com/collections/all

Some things to keep in mind if you decide to try:

1.  The connections on these adapters are VERY tight.  So be very careful when inserting the tube into the adapter.  The adapters are small.  I actually bent a pin or two of the adapter when I first put the tube into it.  The Decware pin straightener was handy.

2. If you're going to go down this road be prepared to adjust the gain structure and possibly roll the VR tube on the input.  This is not plug and play.

3. You will likely have to adjust the speaker placement after you put a few hours on the tube.

I'll be posting more about what I have done in the Cryotube thread in two or three weeks, just before I shut down for kayak season.

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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #40 - 05/19/22 at 13:49:26
 
John,
As usual, thank you for the additional information!
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #41 - 05/19/22 at 21:06:39
 
I think of this as "You are the microphone."  —  Lon

That’s an excellent way to think of this experience!
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Re: Omega Vintage 8 HO
Reply #42 - 05/23/22 at 23:30:35
 


Quote:
So I went through almost exactly the same thing, except I was sure my speakers were sufficiently broken in. Decware + Omega told me  I wasn't getting my monies worth with my old digital front end, the difference between it and LPs was just too big. So long story short now I have a Denafrips Terminator 2 DAC + Gaia DDC and a Jay CDT Mk3 and no regrets at all. I feel like after almost 40 years of chasing digital no longer sounds like a compromise. The only thing that could possibly be better is replacing my UFOs with the 25th anniversary edition I ordered last Black Friday but they are still a year or more away from my listening room.


I had to pull the CSP3 out of my system to send it to Decware for repairs.  I hooked up the UFO25 to the ZR2 and the rest of the system and it became very obvious what I will be doing next.  Exactly what you did CAJames for exactly the same reason.

Not the the ZDSD is a poor component, it's not and depending on a persons end goal it may be all that one needs.  But its limitations were evident relative to my end goal which crystallized after the responses to my post.

It started with Steves comments: Quote:
The better the speaker is, the better the amp will mess you up. Or put another way the better the music will mess you up as the amp steps into a high dimension and takes itself out of the direct path between music and listener.


The CSP3-A, UFO25 (both with a full Cryotone tube complement) along with the Omega Vintage 8HO speakers were now able to produce what Steve describes and what Lon summarized as: Quote:
I think of this as "You are the microphone."


This well describes what my ultimate goal is.  This is what got me into this hobby many years ago when I heard a system that to this day I cannot forget.  I can't remember all of the details but what I do remember is that "I was the microphone".

Take out any one of the downstream components, including the Cryotone tubes, and I am no longer "the microphone".  The ZDSD was able to get me close to my goals.  Now for the rest of the way.  CAJames I may not end up with exactly the same upstream components as you have, regardless, your comments were very helpful.  In fact, today I was researching the Denafrips GAIA DDC!


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