Hey Steve,

They would work either place, imparting their particular character a little differently since the components are different. I used them for some time and as I recall they sounded pretty close to 6922/E88CCs.

Like any NOS tube, each 6N23P has a different sound based on construction, design and materials, also why different vintages and tubes from different factories are variable, something to consider with future choices. But with this one pair, I would suggest to just try them in one place and then after you get a good feel for them, switch and see what you think.

Also, if they are true NOS, which many of those can be, they can take a while to burn in. With the last I had, it took a while for them to loosen up and for the bass to fill out. So perhaps more finally change from one component to the other after 50-100 hours and see what you hear again.

Have fun!

Will as always, thanks for your insight! I'll let you guys know how it works out.

Groovysauce, I first took the CSP3 out of the equation then swapped out the power tubes and the static noise continued, then I swapped out the 6n1P-EV with another set I have and the noise is gone. And yes even with the volume all the way down I could still hear a little static.

Sad to see those red tops gone, hopefully the 6n23P-EB will make the red tops a distance memory.

Hey Steve,

I think being used to 6N1P's particular warmth, body and textures within their pretty nice spacious qualities, it can be a tricky adjustment going to many of the 6922/E88CC types. Not sure how much you have played with this, but comparing the 6922/E88CC and 6DJ8/ECC88 group, I gather 6922s were meant to be a higher specced tube, so electronically they tend to be more powerful, clean and accurate. Conveying to audio, whatever particular sonic tendencies an individual tube has, it is expressed more powerfully .... more focused in all they do, including dynamics, extension, edges, and in all the ways the sounds contrast empty space.

Though loads of variations within these basics, it all adds up to a tube that is "more there," and a little less delicate and complex and open seeming than many ECC88 types can be (like your Bugle Boy, and as I recall, 6N1Ps)... the way I am hearing them, ECC88 types, tending more relaxed in power and focus, are usually less extended on bottom, and less focus and consolidation seems to support potential texture and complexity.

I have heard people say E88CCs are more "solid state-like." But some of the famous Mullards, Telefunkens, and American Amperex 7308 are in part famous because they can make a more solid and powerful presentation that includes complexity and textures... Though a little too intensely expressive for my tastes, early 60s Telefunken E88CCs I have are unusually powerful feeling with a complete balance, but also having really good complexity and spaciousness... maybe something like your Bugle Boy on steroids.

Anyway, the 6N23P being more like a 6922 overall, it makes some sense to me that using it in your SE34 made you want to replace the quite revealing and open Bugle Boy input in the CSP3 with another 6N1P as a compensation to integrate the 6N23P toward the sound you are used to.

I recall that I did like 6N1Ps in the power position of the CSP3 for a time, and like your previous set, I also preferred a more fine detailed, open and extended on top ECC88s in front of the 6N1Ps. Even then though, eventually I missed some of the finest detail from 6N1Ps. Though they do it gracefully, still feeling like they have good balances, as I recall, they are not the best at complex fine detail, and I need that for a more live-like experience.

So in time, trying many 7DJ8/PCC88s in some positions to help power my sound up in a milder way than E88CCs, while being good at spaciousness and fine detail, and also exploring a lot of ECC88/6DJ8 types, I lucked into a pair of Mullard E88CCs from the early 60s with parasol getters. There are a number of variations of this tube, some sold as Philips SQs (and others), but the parasol getter tubes seem relatively consistent, and in my system arrangement, they have worked really well for me in the CSP3 power position.... They are powerful, but good at warmth, integrating resolution and speed enough to not feel too slow or dark, at least in the right company.... Tuning them with an open, fast and resolving rectifier, and a cleaner, more spacious early 60s ECC189 (Holland more transparent and fast, and British, more warm and a little slower), or with nicely resolving ECC88 inputs, I have been ending up with this basic combo for years...

But right now, having made some system/room changes, more resolving and harmonically rich, but also smoother and warmer, I am liking cleaner, more neutral and transparent power tubes in the CSP3.

This change was in part due to using relatively clear, spacious, and resolving, but also warmish 4 volt RGN1064 mesh plate rectifiers. Being a little more relaxed in power and force than our more typical 5 volt rectifiers...and being good old-school rectifiers, they support a clear and complex sound without tending to consolidate the signal as much. Also being a little milder, they don't push the extension hard enough to thicken the mids or shift things toward overly full/thick bass in the balance as much. The way I perceive it, this tube calms signal force down a bit, so potential textures and space are naturally more resolved, less consolidated, revealing more complete complexity, subtle detail, and spacial information while still being musical and warmish. In my setup anyway, they help create a musically complex balance I like.

So between the system shifts, and this tube type shifts, I am able to enjoy a more focused and "accurate" CSP3 power tube as long as I also use milder and musically complex inputs and rectifiers. The RGN1064 is out of spec though, 4 volts rather than 5 like our amps are designed for, and being B4 pinned, they also need special adapters that lately have been hard to find.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to go on to question their durability since RGN1064s are out of spec for Decware. I have been using them maybe 5-6 years, and have had two of the mesh plate versions spark briefly at times, particularly on hot startup. One of these, a later (I think late 40s) mesh plate Tesla failed after a  year or so of pretty heavy use... probably between 2000-3000 hours. But no sparking from a number of other mesh plates I have tried more briefly, or from any solid plate versions so far. The other startup sparker I have is one of a mesh plate pair, late 30's without a label but one of the Telefunken off-shoot companies. I used these most of the time the Torii for several years with some sparking on one, but no failure. Not long ago I rolled in some others though, so I can't say how long they might last compared to in-spec tubes of similar quality. Sparking cathodes is not good though, soooo.... just wanted to put up a caution!

Anyway, just now, I am liking a very clean early 60s Valvo white label E88CC, a tube I always found impressive, but in the past ending up almost overtly transparent and accurate in my setting.

Another tube I have almost loved for power in the CSP3, but not tried in a while, are some of the 6NS7s. I need to try them again, but I have the CSP3 out of the system right now, focusing on modifying a ZRock, so running the ZRock2 only between DAC and amp. But as I recall, the nicer 6SN7s tend to be quite seductive, doing what they do in ways that are musical and lively seeming to me... whether weighing brighter or darker, if the warmth and resolution of a particular tube fits, they can enliven the music pretty convincingly to me. But.... in my system/room, in the past anyway, they usually ended up feeling a little over-stated, so back to the E88CC type I went...$%^&*().

Once I got a Torii III and IV, to me the voicing is a lot about power with strong bass presence, so more powered up sounding tubes are something I have never loved throughout. I always ended up toning it back a bit from stock tube types, mixing in some milder tubes to open it up and reduce force and consolidation as I worked on increased complexity, spatial information and speed.

And now, after pretty extensive modifications, my system has become so "easy-flow" and transparent/resolving, that many extra-expressive tubes tend to be more overstated than expressive ... Steadily resolving minor system/room masking and smearing musically, everything happens more clearly and more effortlessly. I think the whole progressively growing more resolving, extended, faster, dynamic, there is not as much for more powered up tubes to push through, so the more powerful tubes can feel overly powerful. And all the tubes show their subtler traits and balances more completely, so though pretty much all sound better than they used to as the components and room refine, I hear tube balance anomalies more also, some that I once liked, now not so unusable.

If I can resolve impediments to complex musicality musically, a more complex and spacious overall balance that comprises lots of subtle balances becomes more clear... And if a given tube does not more-or-less naturally support this overall balance of balances, it will be a downgrade to the whole, at best needing compensation with other complimentary tubes. At this point for me, signal consolidation that hardens the sound, and dark fullness that off balances and muddles things together too much continue to be main things I need to avoid in my setup. Solving these musically helps harmonic complexity potential and balances throughout, while making finding a sweet harmonic liveliness easier. So tubes remain a balancing act, but when it works, I find balancing several nice tubes with variations of characters can be a really good tool for creating an overall balance with rich complexity.

That said, interestingly, with increases in revelation and subtler system balances, many tubes that were once over-powered to me, and messing up some aspect of the spectral and/or complexity balances, these same tubes can be really right sounding now with the right tube compliment. And some other tubes have great balances, but remain just a little too strong for me. In general nicer 6SN7s were like this last I tried them... the ones I liked conveying everything in the music quite nicely, but doing it in a strong way in this system, making the music more "hi-fi" and a little less like music in the room. But this is me in my system, and your SE34 is milder than my Torii, so it might be worth a look at the 6NS7 thread in the forum where most folks really love them in their settings.

Also, have you tried 6N5Ps. I have only tried one pair, and it did not quite overrule "my usual" fav blends, but I recall being impressed with it. Maybe I got lucky with that pair, but if I am remembering correctly, they sounded in some ways like a blend of a 6N1P and a 6N23P, combining the better traits of each and ending with a tube that was nicely warmish, and nicely rich, spacious, complex, and extended. May be worth looking into if you have not already for the SE34 or CSP3. For one, I think Lon has explored this tube a fair bit.

Hope this helps!

Will