Forums - 16/44.1 - getting it right

Melvin

Ex Member

16/44.1 - getting it right
12/09/21 at 03:23:05

As some of you may know when the hot summer months arrive here in the Northeast I swap out my tube gear for solid state. My reasoning is not so much about the heat generated by the gear, more so the noisy fans I use which obscures, well, everything I love about my system. (I only air condition the bedroom.) I’ve actually come to enjoy this little once a year exercise, it helps with perspective. Having held on to much of my previously-loved gear gives me a few nice options. This summer I decided on the Ohm MicroWalsh Talls driven by the Marantz HD-AMP1 (class d integrated with on-board ESS DAC). It had been a few years since the Ohm’s were in my living room for any length of time and I enjoyed the time with them. That said, I’m really happy to be back listening to my Decware/Omega system.

Out of curiosity I opted to have a listen to my Tranquility DAC (TDA1543), which hasn’t seen much use in the past few years. Much to my surprise I prefer it with 16/44.1. A surprise because of my current love affair with the MHDT Lab Pagoda. The Pagoda (PCM1704) is wonderful with higher rates but to my ear the Tranquility is the champ with Redbook. With the Tranquility in the mix my humble little system is providing more joy, more pleasure than I thought possible at this price-point.

While I very much enjoy well-done high-res the overwhelming majority of my music library consists of ripped CDs. It was my desire to hear 16/44.1 done “right” that led me to the Tranquility DAC 10 years ago and I was not disappointed. In fact, I only moved on because of the supposed vast superiority of high-res. I was excited to hear it’s potential and purchased the Chord Qute HD. A year later I had it upgraded to the EX version. Nice DAC. I was mostly happy, yet …

Point being (and thanks for bearing with me), I recently re-read “Steve’s Digital Journey” thread. Yes, he waxes poetic about a different DAC, the Holo Audio May, but it was his experience with 16/44.1 that really got my attention (starting at post #41). The thread has more than 22,000 views but if you haven’t read through it yet it’s well worth the time. After all these years of disappointing digital, 16/44.1 can deliver. I’d love to hear the Holo May DAC one day but seriously doubt it will happen. I will however remain content with my Tranquility DAC. It gets it right.

A question .. have you found a DAC which does justice to 16/44.1?

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CAJames

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"I've run every
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lane."

Posts: 1652

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #1 - 12/09/21 at 04:33:06

Yes. I upgraded my digital to a Denafrips Terminator 2 and Gaia, and very recently a Jays CDT2-MK3 CD transport. And I’m still in shock at how good humble 16/44 CDs and downloads sound. They sound like hirez (Steve mentions something similar when talking about the May). I bought my first CD player in 1985 so it’s taken over 35 years but I’ve finally found digital sound that isn’t a compromise.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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Chester

Verified Member

Posts: 37

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #2 - 12/09/21 at 05:52:23

I don’t have a lot of experience with DACs but really enjoy the BorderPatrol SE. I don’t think it will even handle real hi-rez, but I thoroughly enjoy the clarity and wonderful detail it offers (plus I could just handle the price point).

The more I have read these forums (which are so helpful and thoughtful) and other reviews of gear, I appreciate the joy (and frustrations) of finding the right gear for your ear and your room - which could be very different from someone else. Happy listening.

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SE84UFO25/Border Patrol DAC/Zu Omens/Zu Undertone Sub

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Melvin

Ex Member

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #3 - 12/09/21 at 12:36:30

CAJames .. I've read some great things about the Denafrips lineup but little of the Jays transport. I'll pay more attention. 35 years is a long time! Glad you're there.

Chester .. when the Border Patrol first came out I gave it a long look. I ended up taking a chance on the Pagoda instead for a couple of reasons. The Tranquility uses the same TDA1543 chip as the Border Patrol. I thought the sound signature may be similar and in fact, I read it was. The Pagoda's ability to handle 24/192 unmolested coupled with a tube output buffer appealed to me. Still wish I gave the Border Patrol a spin because of the rectifier.

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Tony Seasoned Member "Life without ..music is inconceivable" A.Einsteln Posts: 621	Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right Reply #4 - 12/09/21 at 16:15:06 Melvin, with your Sonore microRendu, are you pleased with its contribution to your digital reception and enjoyment? I am considering it.
Back to top	SE84UFO25 \| Ic0n4 Passive Preamp \| ZBIT \| Cambr. CXNv2 \| Denafrips Pontus II \| Denafrips Gaia \| Decware I/Cs \| Decware Pwr Cbls \| ZWIRE Speaker Cbls \| Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 \| Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt IP Logged

Melvin

Ex Member

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #5 - 12/09/21 at 18:03:29

Hi Tony. Yes, I'm quite happy with it. The microRendu replaced a very capable Bluesound Node 2. For me, the sound quality improvement was worth it. I use the mConnect app on both iOS and Android for control. As with any new and unfamiliar device there was a bit of a learning curve in the beginning but I had it up and running very quickly. Best of luck if you decide to take a chance on it and please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

edit: re-read my post and realized I should me more clear .. I spent about $100 less on the microRendu than the Node 2. IMO the microRendu not only performs better but also sounds better. It was worth the effort and subsequent short learning curve. I still use the Node 2 in a 2nd system.

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GroovySauce

Seasoned Member

Posts: 815

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #6 - 12/09/21 at 18:29:27

I've been loving listening to 16/44.1! a majority of the music I enjoy is only available in 16/44.1. My ZP3 has been sitting cold with no action for months. Actually I played a record 2 weeks ago, before that it was 2 months ago.

I used to be 70% vinyl.

Issue I've found is new vinyl is the same mix as the digital version. The QA on vinyl is very low in general, I get a lot of bad pressings. Digital is sounding so good I don't really miss vinyl. When the vinyl is mastered differently than the digital then usually the vinyl sounds better, due to the mix / mastering, still plagued with bad pressings.

Older original pressings are a different story.

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Lon

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"Love without
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Posts: 23459

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #7 - 12/09/21 at 18:54:22

I'm a person who listens and watches to discs: predominantly cd, but also SACD and LP and DVD and Blu-ray.

In regard to Redbook I honestly think the transport plays a very important role. The pinnacle of listening to 16:44 for me has been using the PS Audio transports into the PS Audio DACs, starting with the PerfectWave transport into the PerfectWave DAC, and then the Direcstream Memory Player into the DirectStream DAC and now the Perfectwave SACD transport into the DirectStream DAC, which is the best 16:44 that I have ever heard. (Granted the DAC upscales the Redbook data to DSD before converting to analog).

I've had many another CD player or universal player from Decware, Oppo, Sony, Denon, Dynaco, Marantz, NAD and a few others, and none have approached the sound from PS Audio combos. I know there are now better DACs out there, but the synergy between the transport and DAC in this case means that I am sticking with the combo in deep satisfaction. Audio life is so good for me this decade and last.

I'm firmly with GroovySauce on new vinyl--the price is too much for me when I can buy cds at a third or more of the cost, and the quality control is chancy. Original releases can be amazing--I treasure some 'fifties Ellington titles as among the best sounds I've heard, period, for example. I now use a PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter as a phono preamp--the signal is converted to DSD and transported via I2S/HDMI to my DirectStream DAC and thence to my ZTPRE--wonderful sound using the same best cabling and the welcome remote as the DAC. I know I could do better if I had the dollars, but I don't and I'm happy.

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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1

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CAJames

Seasoned Member

"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1652

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #8 - 12/09/21 at 19:04:52

Quote:

Posted by: GroovySauce Posted on: Today at 18:29:27

..Issue I've found is new vinyl is the same mix as the digital version. The QA on vinyl is very low in general, I get a lot of bad pressings. Digital is sounding so good I don't really miss vinyl.

Yes! I thought it was just me. New vinyl is also crazy expensive, compared to digital and esp. considering how poor it usually is.

I bought thousands of albums, almost all used or cutouts, back in the 80's and early 90's and they were typically a couple of bucks each and (mostly) sound great. I've thinned the herd considerably since then but I've kept my (pretty nice) vinyl rig and always felt like there was a noticeable gap between it and digital. But that has all changed with Denafrips/Jay's and now it is really just about the music, as I hoped it would be when I bought my first CD player and CDs way back in the day.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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Melvin

Ex Member

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #9 - 12/10/21 at 13:13:01

Quote:

I've been loving listening to 16/44.1! a majority of the music I enjoy is only available in 16/44.1. My ZP3 has been sitting cold with no action for months. Actually I played a record 2 weeks ago, before that it was 2 months ago.

I used to be 70% vinyl.

GroovySauce .. this speaks volumes. I've read about your speakers and the Holo May, of course. I can only imagine how great your system sounds.

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Melvin

Ex Member

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #10 - 12/10/21 at 13:33:45

Same with your system Lon. I remember looking up the gear listed in your signature when I first joined here. I can only imagine. I live in a more budget-restricted world than many in our hobby (really, is it just a hobby?) but I've managed to cobble together a very satisfying system. Looking back it seems somewhat like a treasure hunt and I struck gold.

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Lon

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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23459

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #11 - 12/10/21 at 13:50:42

Striking gold indeed. I did a few decades of digging to hit the motherlode of musical enjoyment. I got lucky in that I had a few years of opportunity to spend larger than ever before and got my front end and speakers and cabling established and then when I could move to the SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the Anniversary mods that allow me to reach such musical satisfaction, tying the system together. A big change from the Torii sound I enjoyed for years, and one I prefer.

It's great that we can all enjoy music so deeply from these machines developed by the Maestro.

This week I have been playing about with rectifiers and it's like discovering new systems just from one fundamental element--these components are that revealing. Right now I have a 'fifties small short RCA Type 80 in the CSP3 with the Anniversary Mods, and a pair of matched RCA 5V4G rectifiers in the Monoblocks and I am getting a rich classic tube sound married to the open revealing nature of the Decware sound. I'm sticking with this signature for a while, really stimulating listening!

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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1

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Tommy Freefall Seasoned Member Posts: 400	Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right Reply #12 - 12/11/21 at 04:12:15 Melvin, Like Chester I also have the Border Patrol SE DAC and I really like it. It has a nice analog sound. It doesn't do hi-res, but if I can get great redbook sound then I'm perfectly satisfied with that.
Back to top	Torii MkIV w/ 25th ann mods Rachael SE34I.5 Benchmark AHB2 ERRx ZStage, ZRock2 Tascam CD-240 Border Patrol DAC Benchmark DAC3 HGC Bluesound Node Zu Audio Mission speaker cables Decware I/Cs PI Audio MiniBUSS Zenhead, Grado 325e IP Logged

CAJames

Seasoned Member

"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1652

Re: 16/44.1 - getting it right
Reply #13 - 12/11/21 at 04:55:29

Quote:

…It doesn't do hi-res, but if I can get great redbook sound then I'm perfectly satisfied with that.

I was an early adopter of SACD, and have purchased many hirez downloads all because I was looking for something better than I was getting from redbook. But those days are over now. I don’t need anything more than 16/44 either. In that sense perhaps my new digital front end will pay for itself eventually. Yeah, right.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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