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ZRock vs ZBox (Read 3721 times)
Antti
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ZRock vs ZBox
10/01/21 at 06:07:24
 
I would be interested in the differences between ZRock and ZBox. I found ZBox when I was looking for a proper tube buffer, but I quite quickly found ZRock. I think having ZBox with optional EQ sounds very nice.

So my intuition says that when EQ is not applied, ZRock should sound like ZBox, ie. "just" tube buffer. However I have seen some people using both together. Why is that? Don't they then apply the tube buffer side two times? Is there any other reason to prefer ZBox than price (and if one doesn't need EQ)? And if ZRock doesn't also act as a tube buffer, why does it have tube?
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Lin
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #1 - 10/02/21 at 15:17:17
 
Info on the zrock2 page seems to indicate you are correct.
Will the volume range be adequate in your system?
Do you have a gain/volume control on your amplifier?

"A SIMPLE PREAMP?

The ZROCK2 is not designed as a preamplifier, it is assumed that you will have either a preamp or amplifier with a gain/volume control to actually adjust the volume in your system.

The way the ZROCK2s variable EQ knob was deigned is this:
From 0 to 1/2 way, the control acts as a regular volume control with no EQ.

At the 1/2 way point, the output level and the sound exactly match the way the ZROCK2 sounds when it is bypassed.

From this 1/2 way point to 3/4, the sound will get louder and the EQ slope grows proportionately.

From 3/4 to full the EQ slope continues to grow and high frequency attenuation starts to becomes apparent."
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #2 - 03/17/23 at 04:57:10
 
I'm also a little confused by this.
The way the manual is worded it could mean one of two things.

From the manual:
"[the bypass switch is]... intended to be used as an A/B switch while you make
your adjustments. This way you can hear what it sounds like without the Z-ROCK..."

and...

"Once [the dial] is at the half way position, it achieves unity
gain which means you can flip the bypass switch on and off and hear no change in volume or frequency balance."

So either the bypass switch only bypasses the EQ and Gain but not the tube flavor, meaning when bypassed the Zrock is essentially a Zbox,

or...

The bypass is a hard bypass of everything, and since the halfway point of the dial is the same as the bypass setting, the tube must only be used for applying the EQ curve and the Zrock will not behave like a Zbox.
It will not give you tube tone without also applying EQ.


Can anyone clarify which is correct?

I'm trying to decide which to buy  :)
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JBzen
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #3 - 03/17/23 at 09:26:25
 
Quote:
From the manual:
"[the bypass switch is]... intended to be used as an A/B switch while you make
your adjustments. This way you can hear what it sounds like without the Z-ROCK..."


The way this is wrote is correct. When making adjustments on the Zrock a listener is NOT at the sweet spot(ideal listening position). The listener is adjusting the desired fix(remaster) of the source at the rig. In the bypass position, the soundstage will shrink. Not a good thing at the sweet spot. The bypass it is there to facilitate adjustment - not meant to eliminate the Zrock when listening. To bypass the Zrock one would need to either patch it out or use a ZSB.

The Zbox is a tube buffer with adjustable trimmer. In other words, it can never exceed the gain of what is being fed to it.

HTH
John
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #4 - 03/17/23 at 15:54:09
 
I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic and I don't know if you've addressed the question.
Whether or not the bypass switch physically disengages the tube has nothing to do with if the listener is in the sweet spot or not, surely..

Are you saying the bypass switch does not bypass the tube?
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Lon
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #5 - 03/17/23 at 16:03:13
 
It's easy to tell what is going on by removing the tube. In bypass mode you can remove the tube and the music continues uninterrupted and with no added gain or EQ just as in the bypass position.

When the bypass is NOT actuated it can act like a simple preamp up to unity gain like a ZBOX up to that noonish point but after that it adds gain and EQ. From some testing I have done it seems just a tiny smidgeon less ultimately transparent than a ZBOX, or the system without either the ZBOX or ZROCK2 installed. There is a tiny bit more transparency with the ZROCK2 completely removed as compared to it with the bypass enabled. You have to really strain to hear that lack of transparency from the listening position so I think it's really negligable.
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #6 - 03/17/23 at 16:24:51
 
Ok so no tube installed should mean open circuit and no sound at all right? So the fact that there is still sound passed though in bypass mode means the switch must bypass the tube.
So, with the dial at half way, the ZRock does indeed have the ability to function like a ZBox.
Except, if i understand correctly, your also telling me that with the dial half way the ZRocks sound is very subtle. So is the ZBox stronger sounding than the ZRock in its half way setting?
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Lon
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #7 - 03/17/23 at 16:35:03
 
It's been quite a while since I made a comparison between the two each alone and together in the system. And my ZBOX currently has a problem--only one channel works, so I can't make a new comparison.

I edited my previous post because I didn't want it to seem that I was straining to hear the ZROCK2 in that sentence, I was straining to hear a very slight lack of transparency that I hadn't even noticed until someone vehemently pointed it out years ago.

From memory: not sure how to characterize "soft" or "stronger." I would say if you only want tube-buffering the ZBOX may be just a tiny bit better, and cheaper. But I highly recommend the ZROCK2--my systems each have one (three in total) and they are never bypassed because they always add value to my systems in tonal frequency "rightness" and just great sound. My ZBOX has only been used in one system briefly in the last five years. . . used until I corralled a ZROCK2 for that system.

And I'll add this bit of advice: get as many of the options/mods as you can: the best caps and the bypass mods and the tube regulation make a difference in a positive way in both components.
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JBzen
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #8 - 03/17/23 at 17:53:39
 
From the Zbox manual:

"Gain            Near unity"

So to answer your question the Zrock is "stronger" because it can be adjusted to unity.

Sorry, I did not answer your question. It might help if you clarified on what your purpose is in use of these two items. Each one serve a different purpose.

John
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #9 - 03/18/23 at 02:15:35
 
Thanks for your replies. I'm beginning to understand.

The intended purpose is just to give tubes a try, really.
I really like my system but in a perfect world it would be just a touch warmer or more full bodied, and a touch less crispy on the top end.
I've never heard tubes so would like to try them and see if they can achieve this goal.

It will sit between a dac and an integrated amp, both of which have volume control, so i don't need that. And I don't feel like I need any more bass, but if the ZRock will give me the same tube sound as the ZBox just with an additional EQ curve, then there's no reason not to get the one with that extra feature, just to try it. Who knows maybe I'll love it.
But if the ZRock is not capable of doing JUST tube tone with no EQ applied, which is how I suspect I will use it most of the time, then I'll need the ZBox instead.

This is what I'm trying to determine  :)
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Rivieraranch
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #10 - 03/18/23 at 03:00:56
 
Just get a ZRock. It will be better than the tone adjustment on your solid state amp.
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JBzen
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #11 - 03/18/23 at 12:24:55
 
Zrock will be of better use for your intentions. It will give a better tube signature at unity. The tone controls can be set flat on the SS equipment with the Zrock dialing in tube tone. The switch on the back of the Zrock might help with the edginess, as well as setting the SS equipment flat. There will be just simply more options for you to get acquainted with the tube sound using the Zrock and better resale if the sound does not jive.

John
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Dominick
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #12 - 03/18/23 at 14:07:08
 
Question…… do you only listen to digital?  If you listen to vinyl and/or tape….then hands down the ZROCK2 is the clear winner.  While the ZBOX will warm up the sound, it’s not going to give you the flexibility of tone adjustments like the ZROCK2.

I have found that when switching from digital to vinyl, I am adjusting the ZROCK2.  The bypass switch is the key player here.  I will listen to an album bypassed, then turn it on to see where I want the sound to go for my liking.  Even with different vinyl albums.. I find that I’m occasionally micro adjusting the ZROCK2.  

In regards to digital…you will get some albums that are just “thin” for lack of a better term.  The ZROCK2 will be able to make that recording more palatable.  I don’t think you will find a better piece of gear with what the ZROCK2 will offer.

Here are two YouTube videos of the ZROCK2.  I think this will help you.  For the best results…Steve recommends listening through headphones and/or earbuds….not through your computer speakers or mobile devices.

In this first video .. you can hear how the  sound changes when flips the front bypass switch. You don’t even need headphones to hear how the sound changes.  It’s quite noticeable.

https://youtu.be/LfbGUBaofAM

https://youtu.be/ANMFBc4AXaU

Dom
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #13 - 03/18/23 at 16:36:25
 
Thanks Dominick.

I do have a vinyl set up but in truth probably 90% of my listening is digital streams from Tidal. It's that 'thin' quality you mention that I'd like to address. I attribute that more to my speakers than the source, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for sharing those videos but I don't find them very enlightening if I'm being honest.
In the first video he has the bass cranked up pretty high which makes it harder to tell what the ZRock is doing other than 'more bass', and impossible to tell how it sounds at unity, which is how I intend to use it mostly.

The second video sounds great too, but how much of that is the Zrock vs the rest of the system they are using? It's impossible to say.

Not to mention I doubt I'm actually able to hear what it sounds like via youtube video anyway. If my system can sound like a ZRock without having one installed, then why do I need one? And if it can't, then the video isn't useful.

I really wish I could audition these units in the flesh.
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deigm
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #14 - 03/18/23 at 16:40:00
 
John, you mention the ZRock will give a better tube sound at unity. I had assumed the ZRock at unity would sound the same as the ZBox.

Is that not the case?
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JBzen
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #15 - 03/18/23 at 17:53:31
 
Yes. The Zbox can not sound the same at full volume(near unity) as the Zrock center position at unity.

Just to satisfy my assumptions and the fact that there was some time available, I tried the Zbox and Zstage in an a to b comparison. The Zbox at full volume presented a weaker sound as compared to the Zrock at unity. The Zrock at unity had better fuller sound than the Zbox. Steve has said a couple times that even at unity the Zrock adds fullness. I concur.

Now, where is the wife and car! I want to trail ride!

John
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JBzen
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Re: ZRock vs ZBox
Reply #16 - 03/18/23 at 21:44:16
 
Ha! Deigm got me going into digital parity with vinyl. The misses made it home but not before digital swept me away. After the a/b comparison it was decided to change the tube on the Zbox because it was sounding a bit raggedy. The Zbox was recently acquired used. It did not change output level but detail went up a notch with a blacker background. So the Zbox was placed after the Zdac and Zrock after the buffer. A few gain adjustments left the Zbox at 3 o’clock and Zrock at unity.

Oh my! This is the first time that I spent any time on the digital loop since the mains power upgrade. There is more detail. Speed and decay improvement is evident. Just got done listening to Sam Cardon & Kurt Bestor “Innovators” a CD that is very familiar to me. Again hearing detail that brings out unfamiliar sounds and develops others to full blossom and decay.

Karen entered the Chariot excited to show the booty she found at Salvation Army. She sat next to me while the Innovator CD was playing and after showing an item she stopped and stared toward the system saying “That sounds good”. Yes I was paying attention to her excitement. She just stopped dead cold and listened!

Now, Los Lobos “Kinko”. Dave E. should be smiling.

Cheers!

John
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
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