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What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... (Read 4598 times)
Steve Deckert
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What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
08/08/21 at 23:38:51
 
What to expect from a Zen amp by someone who as never heard one... but don't worry, he's an engineer and some engineers don't have to listen to see if something sounds good or not, because they already know.

Yes, I found the following comment on our Youtube channel:

Quote:
mosfet500

You really can't here an exceptional amp or speakers on YT, too many factors. What we do know from electronics is that, while the amp might play loud with efficient speakers, it does not have the dynamic range of amps capable of a couple of hundred watts. That's just math. The next thing is that this amp is limited to very high efficiency speakers. There are some exceptional speakers with SPLs in the mid 80's that this amp will not drive. So it is limited to specific types of music and speakers. Engineers do this all the time, they limit parameters to maximize cost saving. You don't build a two ton truck and expect it to be a good commuter car. I looked at the schematic of this amp. DC is DC regardless whether it's a rectifier tube or a silicon diode. Once it's rectified and filtered it is DC and there is no tube characteristic. A tube can turn on the plate voltage slowly but a semiconductor circuit can also turn on the filament slowly extending tube life. Why are people thinking they get something special out of tube rectifiers is beyond me. This you would have to prove in a DBT and no one I know has done it yet. The other thing I see is that you use two resistors in the cathode circuit, 2.7k and 1.5k. That equals .964 ohms, why aren't you simply using a 1 ohm resistor? I'm looking at your output transformers, they don't look special to me, what I see is triode single ended stage at two watts. While I think the EL84 is a very good tube, it is not the only one and not the only triode. So we have this amp, and I'm not doubting you, it might sound very good with certain music and speakers, but we can get class D amps well under $1k that have exceptional linearity and dynamic range. If you drive them with a tube buffer or preamp (I am an 6922 stage) then you can get a very smooth sweet sound. I'm not the only one doing this, by the way. A class D amp doesn't limit the speaker or music selection either. What I ask people to do is to put their biases aside and audition both. That's what I did. Go listen to Holst's Mars on this and class D and honestly ask yourselves which one sounds best. By the way just like digital chips have improved so has class D, now we use GaN's that are hard to beat.



I didn't post this to start trouble, but rather as a reminder of why so much audio gear sounds so similar.

Steve

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Donnie
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #1 - 08/08/21 at 23:49:33
 
I can help him out with a double blind test.
It might hurt when I gouge his eyes out, but it is all in the name of science!

Yep everything sounds better double blind, but a seeing eye dog takes a lot of Alpo to prove that a class D amp sounds exactly the same as a tube amp does.
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CAJames
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #2 - 08/09/21 at 00:27:34
 
Stopped reading at "can't here"...
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DPC
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #3 - 08/09/21 at 10:01:22
 
I just might be the worst speller on the forum but I can tell the difference between here and hear.
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Geno
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #4 - 08/09/21 at 15:29:43
 
Yep. The "here" tickled me too.

This fellow is the type that would also go on for days about how cables could not possibly make a difference.

I'm actually glad that there are plenty of people like this, because it means that they will not be competition for buying good NOS tubes Smiley
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HockessinKid
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #5 - 08/09/21 at 15:33:01
 
"But wear kan use goes to here da zen" axs me?

HK
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Dominick
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #6 - 08/09/21 at 15:45:52
 
Quote:
 So it is limited to specific types of music and speakers. Engineers do this all the time, they limit parameters to maximize cost saving. You don't build a two ton truck and expect it to be a good commuter car.


The pure idiocy of these comments are amusing.  I thought engineers were bright people.  Obviously he has a few tubes loose!!  

A two ton truck is used to transport and deliver those commuter cars from the factory to you dealer.  The Decware line of amps deliver a sound that a solid state just can’t match… bar none!!

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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EdwardT
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #7 - 08/09/21 at 17:54:06
 
A great engineer once told me, “quit looking at the knobs and use your ears.” My ears told me the class D amps I had were lacking and they were right. My Decware gear is just better sounding to me and that's all that matters.
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maddog07
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #8 - 08/09/21 at 17:56:01
 
there are a lot of "objectivist" who obviously don't trust their own ears.  I wonder if they've ever considered, that there kind has not yet invented tools and methods to "measure" everything the way the human auditory system processes sound?
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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CAJames
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #9 - 08/09/21 at 23:19:20
 
My thing, and I’m a physicist by training and trade, is no one ever bought a Stradivarius or a Rembrandt or a Chateau Margaux based on measurements and I’m not buying stereo gear based on them either.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Palomino
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #10 - 08/26/21 at 22:10:49
 
I think they have come a ways with Class D.  At the last Axpona (2019?), they had a blind listening of a traditional SS amp, Class D and a tube amp. The class D was the "closest" to the tube amp (for me and most of the people in the room).  

But about 6 years ago, I got tired of trying for close to tube sound and bought my first Decware amp.  Haven't looked back.
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DPC
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #11 - 08/27/21 at 01:10:54
 
I am sure there are many music lovers out there that are very happy with SS amps.  I have herd some fine sounding systems that are all SS.

Over the years I have had some very highly rated amps, SS, push-pull tube and low power SET.  Presently there are on standby,
SS amps rated at 3,000 Wats all the way to my 2 wat SET84.

Bottom line, the two Decware amps are the only ones in use.
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Coyote
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #12 - 08/29/21 at 18:08:49
 
Well he can read the colour bands on a resistor, that's a start.
:-)

alain

He simply hasn't seen the light:

Short version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ATBbrfmzc0

Long version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbq0OuJtErs

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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Geno
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #13 - 08/29/21 at 18:47:09
 
It’s gotta be the long version!!!

I have seen the light  :) Smiley Smiley
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Coyote
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Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone...
Reply #14 - 08/29/21 at 19:23:53
 

Geno,

I can tell you have seen the light, it is gently glowing on your profile picture...
:-)

a.
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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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