I have lived frugally for many years, invested wisely and it is now time for retirement. With retirement, I've decided to get back into hifi audio.

A little history... When I was a kid of 18, I worked my way into a sales position at an electronics store in Tyler, Texas. With that, came the benefit of buying stuff on the cheap. I had a nice Kenwood amp, tuner, Denon turntable, TEAC reel to reel and tape deck and Klipsch Heresy speakers. I was loving it. After joining the Navy and getting married I got out of the hobby.

Now, I'm ready to get back in...from scratch. Due to my love of the little Heresy speakers, I've just ordered a set of Klipsch Forte IVs in walnut. I've decided to drive them with one or two of the Decware amps, but haven't decided which as yet. I'm now faced with trying to find all the music I love in a better format than MP3 of which I have about 3000 titles. With that task, I now need to choose my source components. The music genres I love are Jazz and Trip-hop (down tempo). I've been trying to read up on DACs, Streamers, Network Media Players, new turntables, etc. The truth is, I've been out of it for so long, I kinda need some pointers to get started. For the amps, source components and accessories, I've got about $10K I can spend. Can anyone help me start with some good source components and lend some assistance on where to start downloading lossless media and acquiring good records?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Dao

Dao,
Thank you for your service!  I am a fellow veteran myself and served in the Navy as well!  The Forum members and Decware have served me well in my choices.  I too have Klipsch speakers to pair with the amps I have on order and so you can't go wrong with either the UFO, UFO25th or the Torii Jr.  If you are into digital sources (streaming and such), look into the Denafrips Dacs (Ares II or Pontus II).  Also, consider looking into Randy Caintuck's Open Baffle designs.  They are better than my Heresy IIIs at a much lower cost.  And can be carried and moved around with ease!  If not too late, this may give you more headroom in your budget.  Browse through this forum and you will find that there is a wealth of resources here to help you on your retirement journey!
Bob

Your story is mine nearly to the “T.”  I’ve returned to the Heresies (now the IIIs) that I sold years ago, and by lurking and getting friendly advice from the Decware forums--living in the sticks affords me few opportunities for real sampling--I’ve landed on the SE84UFO25, the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 (with Modwright modifications), Mapleshade speaker cables, the Decware DSR interconnects, and a Brickwall power source.  Roon and Qobuz for streaming.  A simple, elegant solution (for well under 10k) for fantastically rich sound.  I couldn’t be happier.  Cruise the forum; lots of nice people willing to share their experiences.

Welcome! It would also be beneficial to know the size of your room, and how loud you like to listen.

Best, and good luck!

Geno

I served on active duty from 1983 to 2008.  I will pm you my history.  Again, thank you for your service!
Bob

Here is a quick rendition of the main open area of my home. We currently use Room A for watching TV. I could place the Klipsch Fortes and gear in Room A or Room B. We just moved in about a month ago so nothing is 100% set as yet. I can do with it as I wish. Do y'all think Room A or B would be better? I do not listen to loud music any longer...just moderate levels nowadays. Dao

dao, welcome aboard!

Great story, mine is somilar in that I was away from any level of serious audio for......most of my life until about 3 yrs ago.

I recommend Room A. The spatial area is better balanced.

Move the couch so it is facing the bookcase, speakers in front of the bookcase which would serve double duty for front wall diffusion.

Brad

room b and thank you Geno.

Try placing the speakers just inside the openings so they think they have infinite room. Steve gave me great advice about 9 years ago in a similar situation and the sound stage was absurd and i did have 4 diffusion panels directly behind me.
Geno the reason I say thanks is that I have changed my room around and your post reminded me to go back to the basics.

JD

Definitely room B. But if you're going to only have one system, put it in the room where you'll listen to it most. Great acoustics are useless if you never turn on the music.

In terms of equipment, spend the majority of your front end budget on the format you'll listen to most. I'm 90% vinyl, so I have a Victor TT-81 with two arms and a bunch of cartridges, while my DAC is a Schiit BiFrost. Many here who are mostly digital have much more expensive DACs. If you're undecided, don't spend a lot on either until you figure it out. Archie's rec of the Technics GR is solid; an old 1200 was one of my first tables. Don't forget you'll need a phono stage.

I believe a preamp is vital and the CSP3 is great. I preferred the flexibility of the Torii for my power amp even with my Zu Druid V, but I like to crank prog rock on occasion. At lower levels the SE84 will be fine and maybe even better; I never heard the 25thA model but I'm sure the owners here will vouch that it's worth it.

The vast majority of my 2,000 records were bought used at thrift stores or record stores, because i enjoy the hunt. New records are easy to find these days and available from many vendors.

Enjoy the journey!

David

If you buy 2 SE84UFO2s and don't look back, you'll be happy.  One of the worst things for peace of mind is to read Steve's posts about his new equipment.  It always makes me feel inadequate!  

So, here's what I'm thinking and I hope to get your thoughts.

Speakers:    Klipsch Forte IVs
Amp:               one SE84UFO25 or two SE84UFO2s for bi-amping
Preamp:           ?
Streamer:        Cambridge Audio CXN V2 or Azur 851N
TT:                  Technics SL-1200GR or SL-1500C

For great sound, do I need a separate DAC like the Denafrips Pontus II or Holy May KTE?

I had to look up the Technics SL-1500C.  Personally I'd stick with an outboard phono amp.  I was originally drawn to Decware for the ZP3 but I ended up all in.

Something to consider as far as a stand alone DAC.

For sale on this forum is a PSA Directstream DAC for $2600, including shipping.

This is a huge bargain on a fantastic DAC.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1623594850

 I am stymied when it comes to suggesting equipment, because there have been many surprises along the audio path. I have owned a mountain of equipment over the decades because that is what I love to do. In spite of brand, model or price, there have been times that the synergy of certain quality components working along together, gave great satisfaction. As long as you have efficient speakers, there are many choices out there. I cannot express the importance of room treatment though, regardless of equipment choice as a comparison.
I look forward to seeing what you end up with and the result.

"Do not underestimate the importance of quality power cords, interconnects and speaker cable. This will make the components and speakers sound their best."

I agree with Geno, power cords, interconnects, and speaker cable make a world of difference. I use and recommend the Decware silver cables.

Likewise, I've found out the importance of vibration control to help your components and speakers sound their best. I encourage you to make room in your budget for this. I have not invested in the more expensive system racks, but for component isolation I particularly like Iso-Pods, Butcher Block Acoustic Maple platforms, and Herbie's Audio Labs Supersonic Stabilizers and Tenderfeet.

Good luck with your system!

Yes, you either buy the special tubes in the Pelikan case, or you buy the amp without tubes. The requisite tubes are not hard to come up with and won't cost a whole lot; my guess is Steve's special selected tubes are worth the cost, but I don't have that amp nor the tubes.

As for the DAC: I have the very same one as Mr. Derrick and have for about four years now and i LOVE it. I'm not selling mine. I'm hoping to keep using it for another four years or so. .  . or more. It's a great one.

   I would recommend getting the Decware tubes for it.  They are hand picked and tested and you get more than just one set.  The pelican case is nice to have also.  
   
  As far as streamers go, the fan favorite is the Cambridge CXN.  I don't think you would hear much difference between that and the 851.  The 851 does have a built in preamp, not sure if the CXN does.  

    SMSL just came out with a streamer for 300.  I've had pretty good luck with their stuff...might be an inexpensive place to get your feet wet although I don't think it has a DAC, but there are lots of DACS out there that will sound better than the ones Cambridge uses and will probably be worth the added investment whichever way you go, imho.  

About the UFO25, I did add the tubes in the cart.

About power/spl for the Forte IVs, I’m still really wondering whether a larger amp would be better. I see posts in the forum where folks have been a bit underwhelmed so they made the move to a Torii or similar. I also see posts where others are very satisfied. I will call Steve.

About streaming and a DAC, I see some have recommended the CXN V2 which has its own DAC. But at $1K, for an all inclusive device, what am I losing in sound quality vs a PS Audio DirectStream or KTE May or Denafrips paired with a separate streamer? I will confess that I have some minor tinnitus in my left ear (US Navy related), so I must wonder is it smarter to go for the convenience of the CXN V2 or will I be better served with a higher end separate DAC...  If I did go with a separate DAC, then what do I use to do QOBUZ, ROON and to play local flacs , etc?

Questions, questions. And then of course I’ll want to get clean power, nice connections and room treatments.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

I would recommend calling Steve and asking his advice regarding the amp choice and the DAC choice because. . . well on the amp choice I'm the opposite of Brad above in that I have a Taboo Mk IV with the mods and a pair of SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the mods and either a CSP3 with the mods or a CSP2+ with the mods and a ZBIT and a ZROCK2 in both systems in larger rooms than his with HR-1s which are supposedly lower in efficiency. . . and I have more than enough power, turn it down from the max available. . . and I had Rachels and Torris before and find that for me there's a step down sonically going to the higher powered amps. There's a refinement and intimacy that is slightly diminished. . .and I wouldn't want to be without it. Steve can look at all the factors in your room and system and give you good advice.

Steve has has both the Cambridge and the Holo May DACs on hand and in use and can give you good advice as to which way to go with sources. In my experience. . . once I got to this level of Decware component excellence. . . I went on a source journey and found I had to keep getting better and better. I ended up with the PS Audio PerfectWave and then DirectStream and I'm very happy.

try to hear some open baffles... like the Caintuck Betsy's - I don't think you will ever return to a "box" speaker once you hear open baffles - provided you have the space to let them breath.  Once you go boxless - you'll never go back.
There are the high value options from U-Turn Audio and Fluance for TT's to consider also.

Regarding DACs/streamers, my short journey’s been from the Bifrost to the CXN V2 to the CXN V2 with Danial Wright’s modifications, for which I haven’t seen a head to head comparison with any of the surely fine DACs mentioned above.  Just wanted to say that after a hundred hours, I’m utterly satisfied.  See https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1605908635. HockessinKid and others have nice things to say about it.

I’m feeding it Qobuz via Roon.  For convenience I often use the preamp built in to the CXN V2 and send it’s magic to my new SE84UFO25 and my Heresy IIIs.  My best description of the whole is transcendental, so good, frankly, that I don’t worry (too much) about hearing the Holo May at Decfest.

Well, I am waiting to receive my Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and my two SE84UFO2s. It will be many weeks before I receive my amps but the streamer will be here early next week. I think that before I pull the trigger on a Holo May or Denafrips DAC, I will listen to the CXN by itself and see what I think. I also went ahead and ordered a Reisong A10 to get me by until the Decware amps come in.  It will be nice to have something to compare the amps to when they arrive.

I guess I need to quickly research interconnecting and speaker cables and get those on order as well.

I’m still really wondering about a standalone DAC. I can spend $5K on a DAC but I will confess I wonder if it will be truly worth the $5K spent to my ears.  Not only do I hear great things about the KTE May but many have talked about how much they like their Aries and Pontus units.  Is there a DAC under $5000 that offers the best bang for the buck?

Dao

Geno,

 So you think using this mod vice purchasing a separate DAC like a Pontus II or similar R2R DAC offers the best bang for the buck? I think that’s what I’m reading.  When I talked to Steve, I believe I understood him to say that he uses his CXN V2 as an input for the Holo May DAC.  Thank you very much for your feedback. It really helps to get everyone’s thoughts on this.  I’m definitely learning.  Dao

Dao, that is my understanding as well.
The CXN is a Streamer & DAC, however Steve uses only the streamer function - sending the digital output to his Holo DAC.

Y'all have been providing great info! I can't count the online reviews I've watched and read to research all the options/suggestions further.

Even though I could afford the KTE May, I just couldn't see spending more for the DAC than for my speakers or for the amps. It just seemed skewed. I did however pull the trigger on the Pontus II DAC.

I quickly put together a diagram with all the gear. I hope y'all will check it out.

For playing downloaded FLACS, I think I have several options, depicted in the diagrams, though I'm not sure what the pros and cons are of each method.

I'm hoping that once again you can help me choose the best option (A, B or C) to play FLACs that I've got here in house.

Many thanks for all the wonderful suggestions whether posted or PM'd. Smiley

Dao

Donnie,

   I don't have the CXN V2 as yet...due to arrive this next week. As I understand it from some research, the CXN V2 can access media from UPnP/DNLA servers...which seems to infer it can access a music library as in Example A and C. If it can indeed, then the CXN v2 would serve as a preamp for all options? Am I misunderstanding this? Again, this is all new to me so I'm still learning.  Dao

Dao,
Congrats on you choice of Pontus II DAC!  You have multiple inputs for the Pontus DAC.  With the CXN V2 streamer/DAC, you would primarily use with Roon/Spotify/Tidal...I suppose using an optical cable.  I use my Pontus for Roon/spotify/Tidal using AES/EBU and I2S and CD playback via optical or coax.  For FLAC stored in hard drive, I suppose you can use the USB input. The Pontus II gives you the flexibility to use multiple sources.
HTH

Geno, Great info.  I will confess, I had to look up the acronym YMMV. LOL

I wonder why Wi-Fi sounded the best of the various methods to connect.  Having my FLAC files on my computer and doing Wi-Fi from there to the CXNV2 would probably be the most convenient since they’re going to be downloaded to the computer anyway. I don’t have an NAS yet but will have very soon so I can do back ups.  I already have one of those little SanDisk Extreme portable drives so I was thinking the best quality would have come from it being connected via USB to the CXNV2.  I’ll get to experiment with it sometime this next week and I will post what I hear.

Again, thank you for everyone’s responses.  Dao

I love down-tempo.
I listen to it at night all the time.

I use an external hard drive, western digital, with 8TB storage, connected via USB. 7TB of FLAC files inhabit it so far.

Piezomam,

  7TB of music!!?? Holy cow!!! That’s a lot,  what was the single major source of all of those megabytes?  Did you rip CDs or download??

One of the great things about this hobby is there are always options.  I'm really happy with two watts I just got more efficient speakers and I can shake the table in the kitchen with them much to my wife's dismay.

Piezoman,

  Interesting point. I actually used to have a Craig PowerPlay 8-track in my first car. I seem to recall listening to “Fly Like an Eagle” by Steve Miller band. LOL

UPDATE: By tomorrow evening, I’ll have my CXN V2 and my Reisong A10, so I’ll finally be able to begin connecting things together. The Reisong will fill in until my UFO2’s arrive....many months down the road. I ordered my Pontus II on the 10th and Vinshineaudio just contacted me today to say it is now shipping via FEDEX. I’m going to start with run of the mill interconnects and zero room treatments. One at a time, I’ll make changes and see what it does. I don’t want to move ahead blindly. I want to learn. I’ll try to snap some pics soon.

I was very pleasantly surprised this morning to see my Pontus II DAC was out for delivery on the FEDEX truck. From China to the remote Ozarks of Arkansas in just under 5 days. Just WOW!!! So now, I have my Fortes, Reisong A10 amp (just a temp), my Pontus II DAC and my CXN V2 in the house. Sadly to say, the DAC did not ship with ANYTHING...no power cord, no cables, no documentation of any kind. Before I can hook it all up, I'll have to take a trip to the store for some cables. Pics coming...

Reisong A10 (gotta have something while I'm waiting for my UFO2s)  :P

GroovySauce,

  Thanks for the tips. I'm always looking for more artists to try. Do you have any downtempo artist recommendations for audition? Two sources of music truly changed my tastes over the years. One, was a woman I dated that introduced me to Supreme Beings of Leisure, Portishead and a few others. The second, was Pandora. I can't count the number of new tracks I was introduced to on there. Once I had a large catalog of THUMBS UP tracks, I took that and started buying.

If I can piggyback on the building a system question, next week I am scheduled to meet with Steve as I have questions.  One of those questions  I hope participants of this thread might offer some thoughts.  I have narrowed down my purchase choice to Rachael with Anniversary Mods.  From there in one scenario I add a CSP3 and the other scenario I do not. Going without the CSP3 give me enough left in my budget to add the Pontus II or Aries II.  Currently I have the Cambridge CXN v2.  Randy's Open Baffle speakers.  One more addition: ZRock2.   At this time all my listening is through streaming. All your thoughts are welcomed as I am starting to get a little dizzy with so many choices, and may be missing something obvious.  Much appreciated.

Tony,

I do a lot of streaming as well.  I use my ZSTAGE with my Torii MKIV and I am happy with the results….especially for the price.  I’m sure the CSP3 would really be a serious kick in the teeth, but for the time being I’d rather save the money and use it elsewhere .  I plan to buy a ZROCK2 this fall, so I’ll report back after it’s incorporated into my system.  

I must say though… that when I swapped out the stock 12AU7 in the ZSTAGE to the NOS Amperex Holland D-Foil Gettef 7062 Pinched Waist, it woke up th ZSTAGE and the sound was so much more alive.  Lon turned me on to this tube…..I like it so much that I bought 2 extra tubes to use in my future ZROCK2.

Just some food for thought.

Dom

Thanks Guys, my agenda with Steve on Tuesday is taking shape.  I have more options to choose from if I put off CSP3 for another time.  I had not even thought of Zstage.

Dao,
With regards to the Denafrips power cables and interconnects, I remember Alvin notifying me that it does not come with a power cable prior to the shipment and to purchase them and even provided a recommendation.

The Pontus benefits from having a quality power cord such as the DHC-1 from Decware. You will easily hear the difference over a stock power cord.

Quote from ArtMan:

"The Pontus benefits from having a quality power cord such as the DHC-1 from Decware. You will easily hear the difference over a stock power cord."

ArtMan,

  I will put that to the test, as I will room treatments and other cables but it may take me some time. I'm a bit of a Doubting Thomas about some of these things...though not all. Are you saying EASY as in ALL the time...low volumes, mid volumes and high? And can you describe the change that you heard? Although I may have some doubt, I never discount anything.

I'm still waiting on cables and have yet to hear my system.  :'(

Well, I finally cabled up my current system which is comprised of an external SSD with some FLAC files, the CXN V2 Streamer, Pontus II DAC, Reisong A10 Integrated Amp and the Klipsch Forte IVs. See diagram. I used regular power cables, Metra Ethereal coax digital cable, AudioQuest Evergreen RCA cables and some decent speaker cables I had lying around. I'm happy to report everything worked upon startup and configuration was a breeze. Using the Stream Magic app, I played some familiar songs from QOBUZ...a fair amount of down tempo with female vocals and the occasional Dubstep/Electronic tune and then a couple of rock classics...and a couple of Jazz hits. I was somewhat pleased, but felt the sound lacking as well. My room definitely needs some room treatments and the system could probably benefit from high end cables, but overall I get the impression I may not be satisfied with a tube amp. For instance, to this day, I recall being 18 years old and listening to the tune "Dragon Attack" by Queen, using my Kenwood Amp, Denon turntable and BETA 045s (Heresy clones). I recall getting punched by the music, hearing the snap and force of the drum beats, the bass, the clarity and breathtaking soundstage. It was as if I was right there at a concert or darn close. I will admit I'm hearing a very sweet sound from the Reisong A10, but there's no force there...NOT VISCERAL in any way shape or form. I'll probably keep the A10 and look forward to the UFO2's coming in, but I think I may want to try a really nice SS amp in the mean time. Any recommendations? Dao

Well, I know there is no perfect system, nor perfect component, but I know I need more impact and detail. I just find it hard to believe my old solid-state 90w/ch Kenwood KA-9100 made those Beta 045s (Heresy clones) sing. I will certainly confess the Reisong A10 sounds nice in many ways...but just a bit afraid the Decware amps won't provide what I'm looking for. either Right now, I'm listening to several Phutureprimitive songs that have nice female vocals mixed with punchy electronic rifts. The female vocals are nice, but the instruments are muffled.

Songs - Phutureprimitive: Enemy, Passes Away, Falling

Without tons of volume, those rifts should conjure up images of chainsaws...that raw ripping sensation. I'm pretty sure the Klipsch Fortes are up for it, but they need the right amp.

I don't want to lose the nice vocals and open sound stage, but I need more...

I also just listened to some Herbie Hancock, and the soundstage was open, but again instruments seemed veiled, lacked detail.

I'll go ahead and start with some high end cables and see what that brings to the table. It may be a good idea to also hit up some other forums and put forth my situation and see what everyone recommends.

For those that have the UFO2, UFO25 or TORIIs, etc...can those amps provide the visceral impact contained in the Phutureprimitive albums; Kinetik and Searching for Beauty in the Darkest Places 1 & 2?

I'm hoping so.

Dao,
Allow burn-in of your Denafrips and your Reisong A10.  Possibly tube roll your Reisong as well.  I had similar experience with the Denafrips but after some burn in, it opened up!
Bob

Thank you for everyone’s encouragement and advice. I will try to burn in the system, then start adding better cables. I may try to rotate the speakers (entire setup) 90 degrees CCW so the speakers are firing towards the kitchen.  We haven’t had the custom bookshelves installed yet so I thought I’d give this a try to see how this changes the sound as well.

Yeah dao sounds like your in the groove now. Decware will make the soundstage so much larger!

John