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HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST (Read 27303 times)
dao
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HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
06/30/21 at 04:26:44
 
I have lived frugally for many years, invested wisely and it is now time for retirement. With retirement, I've decided to get back into hifi audio.

A little history... When I was a kid of 18, I worked my way into a sales position at an electronics store in Tyler, Texas. With that, came the benefit of buying stuff on the cheap. I had a nice Kenwood amp, tuner, Denon turntable, TEAC reel to reel and tape deck and Klipsch Heresy speakers. I was loving it. After joining the Navy and getting married I got out of the hobby.

Now, I'm ready to get back in...from scratch. Due to my love of the little Heresy speakers, I've just ordered a set of Klipsch Forte IVs in walnut. I've decided to drive them with one or two of the Decware amps, but haven't decided which as yet. I'm now faced with trying to find all the music I love in a better format than MP3 of which I have about 3000 titles. With that task, I now need to choose my source components. The music genres I love are Jazz and Trip-hop (down tempo). I've been trying to read up on DACs, Streamers, Network Media Players, new turntables, etc. The truth is, I've been out of it for so long, I kinda need some pointers to get started. For the amps, source components and accessories, I've got about $10K I can spend. Can anyone help me start with some good source components and lend some assistance on where to start downloading lossless media and acquiring good records?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Archie
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #1 - 06/30/21 at 06:27:47
 
For a TT in that budget, maybe a Technics 1200GR?
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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kulafu
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #2 - 06/30/21 at 12:50:52
 
Dao,
Thank you for your service!  I am a fellow veteran myself and served in the Navy as well!  The Forum members and Decware have served me well in my choices.  I too have Klipsch speakers to pair with the amps I have on order and so you can't go wrong with either the UFO, UFO25th or the Torii Jr.  If you are into digital sources (streaming and such), look into the Denafrips Dacs (Ares II or Pontus II).  Also, consider looking into Randy Caintuck's Open Baffle designs.  They are better than my Heresy IIIs at a much lower cost.  And can be carried and moved around with ease!  If not too late, this may give you more headroom in your budget.  Browse through this forum and you will find that there is a wealth of resources here to help you on your retirement journey!
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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Abunadh
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #3 - 06/30/21 at 12:55:18
 
Holo May KTE DAC - $5k
SE84UFO - $1K
Z-bit - $729
Z-rock - $879
Speaker cable/interconnects/usb cable - ~1k
Total - ~ $8600
With that leftover money you could either look into the possible upgrades within each of the above items or consider adding a Zen Line Conditioner at $1k.
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"I don't like it but I guess I'm learning" (Shock the Monkey - Peter Gabriel)
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duaneh
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #4 - 06/30/21 at 13:13:37
 
Your story is mine nearly to the “T.”  I’ve returned to the Heresies (now the IIIs) that I sold years ago, and by lurking and getting friendly advice from the Decware forums--living in the sticks affords me few opportunities for real sampling--I’ve landed on the SE84UFO25, the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 (with Modwright modifications), Mapleshade speaker cables, the Decware DSR interconnects, and a Brickwall power source.  Roon and Qobuz for streaming.  A simple, elegant solution (for well under 10k) for fantastically rich sound.  I couldn’t be happier.  Cruise the forum; lots of nice people willing to share their experiences.
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Decware SE84UFO25, ZROCK2, Cambridge Audio CXN V2 (with Modwright modifications), Klipsch Heresy IIIs, Forte IVs, Mapleshade Double Helix 2 speaker wire, Decware DSR I/Cs, Brickwall surge protector, DHC-1 and Audiocrast power cords, Qobuz/Roon
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HockessinKid
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #5 - 06/30/21 at 14:37:38
 
I'd second this recommendation with a CSP3 (w/ 25th Anniversary modifications thrown in). This will provide you with additional gain and ability to add one more source should you desire. Also try a set of Duelund 12g unterminated cables available from Parts Connexion.

You'll be set

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
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Geno
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #6 - 06/30/21 at 15:10:57
 
Welcome! It would also be beneficial to know the size of your room, and how loud you like to listen.

Best, and good luck!

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #7 - 06/30/21 at 16:41:23
 
Thank you for the quick feedback. I'll start researching all of those options.

Bob,
  When and where did you serve?

I served as an Electronics Technician from 1981 to 2004. I visited Florida, Illinois and California early on then had Nea Makri, Greece as my first duty station. I loved Greece and Europe. My first ship was an old cruiser out of Charleston, SC...then an MSC ship in Norfolk, VA and my last was a MSC Motor Vessel prepositioned to Guam and Saipan. My last tour was spent teaching and managing some ET courses in Norfolk. I retired from active duty on a Friday and went to work as a contractor the following Monday. I've been working for the Navy, Airforce and State Department for just about 40 years. For me, serving has been a huge adventure and I've seen more of the world than most dream about. I'd love to hear your story. Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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kulafu
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #8 - 06/30/21 at 17:29:46
 
I served on active duty from 1983 to 2008.  I will pm you my history.  Again, thank you for your service!
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #9 - 06/30/21 at 19:02:08
 
I'll try to draw up the room dimensions in Visio then post here. It's an odd very open arrangement. The mostly open area is 31' x 36' consisting of four areas; 1) living room (listening area), 2) dining room, 3) home office/library and 4) kitchen.
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #10 - 07/01/21 at 00:06:56
 
Here is a quick rendition of the main open area of my home. We currently use Room A for watching TV. I could place the Klipsch Fortes and gear in Room A or Room B. We just moved in about a month ago so nothing is 100% set as yet. I can do with it as I wish. Do y'all think Room A or B would be better? I do not listen to loud music any longer...just moderate levels nowadays. Smiley Dao
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Main_Area.jpg

Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Donnie
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #11 - 07/01/21 at 00:19:59
 
Room B for a win!

Speakers on either side of the door pulled into the room a couple of feet.

My only recommendation on equipment beyond a Decware amp will be a Denafrips DAC.
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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piezoman
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #12 - 07/01/21 at 00:29:46
 
dao, welcome aboard!

Great story, mine is somilar in that I was away from any level of serious audio for......most of my life until about 3 yrs ago.

I recommend Room A. The spatial area is better balanced.

Move the couch so it is facing the bookcase, speakers in front of the bookcase which would serve double duty for front wall diffusion.

Brad
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Geno
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #13 - 07/01/21 at 01:14:10
 
I agree with Donnie. I remember reading a paper that Steve wrote that said one of the best speaker setups is to have them flanking an opening into another room. This would give almost infinite sound stage depth.

The window behind the couch should be covered a bit with diffusion.
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
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JD
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #14 - 07/01/21 at 02:59:32
 
room b and thank you Geno.

Try placing the speakers just inside the openings so they think they have infinite room. Steve gave me great advice about 9 years ago in a similar situation and the sound stage was absurd and i did have 4 diffusion panels directly behind me.
Geno the reason I say thanks is that I have changed my room around and your post reminded me to go back to the basics.

JD
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piezoman
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #15 - 07/01/21 at 03:37:00
 
Oh hell. I meant room B. Everything i said relates to Room B.

I guess I'm blind, right along with deaf and dumb.
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armstdav
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #16 - 07/01/21 at 04:38:47
 
Definitely room B. But if you're going to only have one system, put it in the room where you'll listen to it most. Great acoustics are useless if you never turn on the music.

In terms of equipment, spend the majority of your front end budget on the format you'll listen to most. I'm 90% vinyl, so I have a Victor TT-81 with two arms and a bunch of cartridges, while my DAC is a Schiit BiFrost. Many here who are mostly digital have much more expensive DACs. If you're undecided, don't spend a lot on either until you figure it out. Archie's rec of the Technics GR is solid; an old 1200 was one of my first tables. Don't forget you'll need a phono stage.

I believe a preamp is vital and the CSP3 is great. I preferred the flexibility of the Torii for my power amp even with my Zu Druid V, but I like to crank prog rock on occasion. At lower levels the SE84 will be fine and maybe even better; I never heard the 25thA model but I'm sure the owners here will vouch that it's worth it.

The vast majority of my 2,000 records were bought used at thrift stores or record stores, because i enjoy the hunt. New records are easy to find these days and available from many vendors.

Enjoy the journey!

David
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #17 - 07/01/21 at 05:51:44
 
David,

  Thanks for the info. I'm in the process of trying to find good lossless sources for all the mp3s I've collected over the years. I may go the TT route in the future, but right now I think streaming and finding FLACs and similar (digital) will be my primary focus.

  On another note, I'm having the hardest time deciding what Decware amp or amps I want to start with. The SE84UFO25 is $2K more than the basic model. Wondering is it really worth the xtra $2K? For that money, I could get two SE84UFO2s and bi-amp my Forte IVs. I don't see how anyone makes a decision.

  I've got alot to think about and to research. It's a bit overwhelming. Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Archie
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #18 - 07/01/21 at 06:29:24
 
If you buy 2 SE84UFO2s and don't look back, you'll be happy.  One of the worst things for peace of mind is to read Steve's posts about his new equipment.  It always makes me feel inadequate!   Tongue
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
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Silver Cabling
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JohnWatson
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #19 - 07/01/21 at 11:59:58
 
I went from the Rachel to the SE84UFO25 after debating it for 2 years and the difference was very well worth it.  IMO it's a TOTL amp that you will never regret purchasing and will not leave you wondering if you made the right decision or not.  It will pair beautifully with a Cambridge streamer and Klipsch.

I also added an SMSL SU-9 dac to see if it was an upgrade to the Cambridge 851 streamer dac and it was.  It's a good inexpensive way to get a good dac  to try although it sounds like the Holo May may be a good endpoint if you want to bear the expense.

Adding a Zbit and Zrock are also great suggestions.
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #20 - 07/01/21 at 21:00:27
 
So, here's what I'm thinking and I hope to get your thoughts.

Speakers:    Klipsch Forte IVs
Amp:               one SE84UFO25 or two SE84UFO2s for bi-amping
Preamp:           ?
Streamer:        Cambridge Audio CXN V2 or Azur 851N
TT:                  Technics SL-1200GR or SL-1500C

For great sound, do I need a separate DAC like the Denafrips Pontus II or Holy May KTE?
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Geno
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #21 - 07/01/21 at 21:41:39
 
Add a CSP3 in the preamp spot, and you're on your way.

Do not underestimate the importance of quality power cords, interconnects and speaker cable. This will make the components and speakers sound their best.
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Archie
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #22 - 07/01/21 at 23:08:06
 
I had to look up the Technics SL-1500C.  Personally I'd stick with an outboard phono amp.  I was originally drawn to Decware for the ZP3 but I ended up all in.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Abunadh
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #23 - 07/02/21 at 05:39:11
 
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"I don't like it but I guess I'm learning" (Shock the Monkey - Peter Gabriel)
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #24 - 07/02/21 at 15:50:58
 
Something to consider as far as a stand alone DAC.

For sale on this forum is a PSA Directstream DAC for $2600, including shipping.

This is a huge bargain on a fantastic DAC.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1623594850
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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MrDerrick
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #25 - 07/02/21 at 23:04:37
 
If you are interested, I also have a Sonore Signature Series Rendu with I2S and SPDIF output that I need to part with.

It will stream Tidal and Qobuz up to 192 all day without issue.

All you need is BubbleUPnP on a device, an ethernet connection and either a HDMI or digital coax and you are good to go, so long as you have a Tidal or Qobuz subscription.

If you want to use ROON, you would need to add a Sonore Bridge for ROON to work with it.
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4krow
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #26 - 07/03/21 at 02:52:58
 
 I am stymied when it comes to suggesting equipment, because there have been many surprises along the audio path. I have owned a mountain of equipment over the decades because that is what I love to do. In spite of brand, model or price, there have been times that the synergy of certain quality components working along together, gave great satisfaction. As long as you have efficient speakers, there are many choices out there. I cannot express the importance of room treatment though, regardless of equipment choice as a comparison.
I look forward to seeing what you end up with and the result.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.
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Dominick
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #27 - 07/03/21 at 04:49:05
 
Dao.....welcome to the forum.  I am getting ready to start construction on my house and I will have a similar setup like you.  I had emailed Steve and also posted my drawings....and the winner location was right at the break front that separates the two rooms.  With my Decware ERR radials, they’ll radiate the sound into both rooms.  Room B is the winner in my opinion.  

In regards to a Preamp...the CSP3 is the king...phenomenal sound and great flexibility for tube rolling.  If your budget allows....then go for it.  BUT....for a third of the price you could buy a ZSTAGE  which is a single triode gain stage.  I currently use it with my Torii MKIV and am happy with it.  It is NOT  in the same league as the CSP3, but it does the job.  Just a thought.  

Good luck and feel free to ask any questions...we are all here to help.

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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DanG
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #28 - 07/03/21 at 15:31:24
 
"Do not underestimate the importance of quality power cords, interconnects and speaker cable. This will make the components and speakers sound their best."

I agree with Geno, power cords, interconnects, and speaker cable make a world of difference. I use and recommend the Decware silver cables.

Likewise, I've found out the importance of vibration control to help your components and speakers sound their best. I encourage you to make room in your budget for this. I have not invested in the more expensive system racks, but for component isolation I particularly like Iso-Pods, Butcher Block Acoustic Maple platforms, and Herbie's Audio Labs Supersonic Stabilizers and Tenderfeet.

Good luck with your system!

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Well Tempered Lab Amadeus MK2 Turntable, Stereo & Mono carts, ZP3, SE84UFO, Lii Song Origin S-10, Audio Note CD1.1x
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #29 - 07/04/21 at 23:00:06
 
I pulled the trigger on a UFO25. I'll be sure and add the appropriate accessories. Am I correct in understanding that the UFO25 does NOT come with tubes unless you pay the $400 extra?

Mr. Derrick and I talked a good while about his DAC for sale and audio in general. Very nice guy. I'm just so new to the scene that I'm hesistant to pull the trigger without more research.

Y'all's thoughts on DACs and streaming devices? I'm probably just going to do digital streaming (QOBUZ/ROON) and playback from FLACs starting out. Again, this is all new so there's a steep learning curve.

I appreciate everyone lending their advice. I research all tips...sorry if I don't get back to you personally to thank you.

I will try position A and B, but now see that B seems like it would be better.
Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Lon
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #30 - 07/05/21 at 00:30:37
 
Yes, you either buy the special tubes in the Pelikan case, or you buy the amp without tubes. The requisite tubes are not hard to come up with and won't cost a whole lot; my guess is Steve's special selected tubes are worth the cost, but I don't have that amp nor the tubes.

As for the DAC: I have the very same one as Mr. Derrick and have for about four years now and i LOVE it. I'm not selling mine. I'm hoping to keep using it for another four years or so. .  . or more. It's a great one.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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kulafu
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #31 - 07/05/21 at 13:20:33
 
Dao,
Great choice on the UFO25.  I went ahead and purchased the tube set but as Lon said, you can purchase your own.  As a newbie when I purchased it, I played it safe.  You have plenty of time to research and you can always add it later.  If you have the budget, invest in the best Dac you can afford.  I continue to do my own research on a second Dac.  From my own experience, I prefer the R2R design which gives you more of that analog sound.  Here is a link to the Holo May KTE DAC review.  There are others out there but this series is good IMHO.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa3sOSRa-U0
Bob
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Omega SAMS,Altec 604C in O/B,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/Torii Jr,CSP3 25th Holo May KTE ,HQP/USB/Pulse/EtherRegen, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800)
Caintuck Lii 15s, T6s, CSP3 25tt , Elekit 8900,IFI Zen Stream, Pontus I
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JohnWatson
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #32 - 07/05/21 at 17:52:15
 
   I would recommend getting the Decware tubes for it.  They are hand picked and tested and you get more than just one set.  The pelican case is nice to have also.  
   
  As far as streamers go, the fan favorite is the Cambridge CXN.  I don't think you would hear much difference between that and the 851.  The 851 does have a built in preamp, not sure if the CXN does.  

    SMSL just came out with a streamer for 300.  I've had pretty good luck with their stuff...might be an inexpensive place to get your feet wet although I don't think it has a DAC, but there are lots of DACS out there that will sound better than the ones Cambridge uses and will probably be worth the added investment whichever way you go, imho.  
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Tony
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #33 - 07/05/21 at 21:24:40
 
Hi All, First let me say what a valuable exchange of information this has been to the initial open ended request to build of a new system from scratch.  What a creative way to start the sharing of information.  I imagine  a lot of us, new to Decware, are benefitting from from the initial post and responses.  My small contribution is that as I wait for my amp (currently #451 - Yea!), I added the CXN V2 to my existing vintage system with great results.  It functions as a streamer and preamp.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Media Converter | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #34 - 07/06/21 at 15:01:02
 
About the UFO25, I did add the tubes in the cart.

About power/spl for the Forte IVs, I’m still really wondering whether a larger amp would be better. I see posts in the forum where folks have been a bit underwhelmed so they made the move to a Torii or similar. I also see posts where others are very satisfied. I will call Steve.

About streaming and a DAC, I see some have recommended the CXN V2 which has its own DAC. But at $1K, for an all inclusive device, what am I losing in sound quality vs a PS Audio DirectStream or KTE May or Denafrips paired with a separate streamer? I will confess that I have some minor tinnitus in my left ear (US Navy related), so I must wonder is it smarter to go for the convenience of the CXN V2 or will I be better served with a higher end separate DAC...  If I did go with a separate DAC, then what do I use to do QOBUZ, ROON and to play local flacs , etc?

Questions, questions. And then of course I’ll want to get clean power, nice connections and room treatments. Smiley

Thanks for everyone’s input.
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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piezoman
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #35 - 07/06/21 at 15:42:29
 
dao, i'm of those who found i absolutely need more power in my 12x10 small room. my taboo is 3.2w, the one amp closest to the SE84UFO. and in my room and my needs overall, i have to run everything wide open - csp3, taboo, zbit - and still need more. and this is with 95db efficient floorstanding speakers and a subwoofer. caveat reminder - thats my opinion, then again for best immersion i need the power. the lesser power tends to sound too lean on too many recordings, and yes thats with a zrock2.

i'm no fan of ear bleeding in any way, just basic headroom. there is no headroom at all right now. ive found over the past year this is unacceptable. a lovely little amp to be certain, but simply not enough jack.

i wrestled alot at the beginning and opted for the lower powered amp. in my case, that was a long term mistake. at first, i thought i was done because the fundamental sound is really good.

but in the end, more weight is needed.....and that comes with reserve, usable power. theres no away around that basic fact.

if you have any doubts and are wrestling like i did, may i strongly recommend you not do what i did and not be left to wonder....forget the SE84UFO and.get the Torii MK 4-25th and enjoy the better balls and superior adjustability it affords.

its better to have the reserve power on hand than constantly pushing the envelope and running short.
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Lon
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #36 - 07/06/21 at 16:17:52
 
I would recommend calling Steve and asking his advice regarding the amp choice and the DAC choice because. . . well on the amp choice I'm the opposite of Brad above in that I have a Taboo Mk IV with the mods and a pair of SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the mods and either a CSP3 with the mods or a CSP2+ with the mods and a ZBIT and a ZROCK2 in both systems in larger rooms than his with HR-1s which are supposedly lower in efficiency. . . and I have more than enough power, turn it down from the max available. . . and I had Rachels and Torris before and find that for me there's a step down sonically going to the higher powered amps. There's a refinement and intimacy that is slightly diminished. . .and I wouldn't want to be without it. Steve can look at all the factors in your room and system and give you good advice.

Steve has has both the Cambridge and the Holo May DACs on hand and in use and can give you good advice as to which way to go with sources. In my experience. . . once I got to this level of Decware component excellence. . . I went on a source journey and found I had to keep getting better and better. I ended up with the PS Audio PerfectWave and then DirectStream and I'm very happy.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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piezoman
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #37 - 07/06/21 at 17:23:34
 
Lon brings up all great points. And we're all different and bring our own experiences, tendencies, and opinions.

And I totally agree, call Steve and get his invaluable input, he's the best guide on everything.
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maddog07
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #38 - 07/06/21 at 18:36:49
 
try to hear some open baffles... like the Caintuck Betsy's - I don't think you will ever return to a "box" speaker once you hear open baffles - provided you have the space to let them breath.  Once you go boxless - you'll never go back.
There are the high value options from U-Turn Audio and Fluance for TT's to consider also.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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Tal
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #39 - 07/06/21 at 18:47:11
 
Dao
I'll add my two cents. My setup consists of the CSP3 with mods> ZR2 > two UFO2 with mods bridged mono feeding  a pair of DNA2s. my untreated room dimensions are 19x10x11 (LxWxH) . In my opinion, the pair of UFO2s combined with the DNA2s is more than sufficient for my needs in my space. I typically listen at low to mid volume levels, and occasionally I will "crank" up the volume. That said, as you may understand, perceived listening volume is subjective. On the DAC situation, I have the Denafrips Pontus, which replace a Schiit SAGA+.  The Pontus is a great piece of kit. I am completed thrilled with it.
In the end, I agree with Lon - Steve will be the best person to consult.
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SE84UFO2 25A mods x2, ZP3 25A mods, CSP3 25A mods, ZRock2 25A mods, Rega P3-24 Incognito tonearm rewire and Groovetracer mods, Bob's Devices SUT > ZP3, Denafrips Pontus + Hermes, Bluesound streamer, Zu Soul VI, Omega DeepOmega8 sub,
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duaneh
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #40 - 07/07/21 at 04:28:58
 
Regarding DACs/streamers, my short journey’s been from the Bifrost to the CXN V2 to the CXN V2 with Danial Wright’s modifications, for which I haven’t seen a head to head comparison with any of the surely fine DACs mentioned above.  Just wanted to say that after a hundred hours, I’m utterly satisfied.  See https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1605908635. HockessinKid and others have nice things to say about it.

I’m feeding it Qobuz via Roon.  For convenience I often use the preamp built in to the CXN V2 and send it’s magic to my new SE84UFO25 and my Heresy IIIs.  My best description of the whole is transcendental, so good, frankly, that I don’t worry (too much) about hearing the Holo May at Decfest.
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Decware SE84UFO25, ZROCK2, Cambridge Audio CXN V2 (with Modwright modifications), Klipsch Heresy IIIs, Forte IVs, Mapleshade Double Helix 2 speaker wire, Decware DSR I/Cs, Brickwall surge protector, DHC-1 and Audiocrast power cords, Qobuz/Roon
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #41 - 07/07/21 at 05:04:51
 
Thanks guys. Great info!  I had the chance to talk to Steve for a good while today. We ended up narrowing the choices down to two UFO2s or a Torii. I ended up choosing two UFO2s with anniversary mods. Steve also highly recommended the CXN V2 and the Holo DACs. Me mentioned that  running the amps in bridged mono was a great set up.

He also liked the setup better in room B and recommended I put some good thick curtains up on that back window. We also discussed cables.

I’m curious about the AZUR 851N instead of the CXN V2. Thoughts?  I forgot to bring this up with Steve.

I also forgot to ask him about whether he recommended the XLR connectors vice the standard RCA’s on the UFO2s.  If the streamer is pretty close to the amps, does XLR have an advantage or is it a moot point unless you’re running long distances?

And, thanks again for everyone’s input. It’s really nice to get everyone’s experience and thoughtful opinions. Dao

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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #42 - 07/09/21 at 05:33:25
 
Well, I am waiting to receive my Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and my two SE84UFO2s. It will be many weeks before I receive my amps but the streamer will be here early next week. I think that before I pull the trigger on a Holo May or Denafrips DAC, I will listen to the CXN by itself and see what I think. I also went ahead and ordered a Reisong A10 to get me by until the Decware amps come in.  It will be nice to have something to compare the amps to when they arrive. Smiley

I guess I need to quickly research interconnecting and speaker cables and get those on order as well.

I’m still really wondering about a standalone DAC. I can spend $5K on a DAC but I will confess I wonder if it will be truly worth the $5K spent to my ears.  Not only do I hear great things about the KTE May but many have talked about how much they like their Aries and Pontus units.  Is there a DAC under $5000 that offers the best bang for the buck?

Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Geno
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #43 - 07/09/21 at 05:43:55
 
Since you have already ordered a CXN, check into having it modded by Dan Wright at Modwright. This will jump it into a whole other league. Several of us here have had that done to ours. I’m betting that the additional money you spend on the mods will be the best bang for your buck.
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #44 - 07/09/21 at 07:29:26
 
Geno,

 So you think using this mod vice purchasing a separate DAC like a Pontus II or similar R2R DAC offers the best bang for the buck? I think that’s what I’m reading.  When I talked to Steve, I believe I understood him to say that he uses his CXN V2 as an input for the Holo May DAC.  Thank you very much for your feedback. It really helps to get everyone’s thoughts on this.  I’m definitely learning.  Dao
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Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Geno
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #45 - 07/09/21 at 12:48:05
 
When I say, best bang for your buck, I’m referring to the $1500 cost of the mods, and you would have a show stopper. I have not heard the Holo, but I know from the descriptions that it must be incredible. But that is $1500 (mods price) vs $5000 for the Holo.

I can tell you that the modded CXN is awesome (Dan Wright is a wizard) and I look forward to comparisons between it and the Holo at Decfest this year (I hope HK will make that happen)

It just depends on how much you are willing to spend…
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #46 - 07/09/21 at 16:15:37
 
Dao, that is my understanding as well.
The CXN is a Streamer & DAC, however Steve uses only the streamer function - sending the digital output to his Holo DAC.
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Torii MkIV w/ 25th ann mods
Rachael SE34I.5
Benchmark AHB2
ERRx
ZStage, ZRock2
Tascam CD-240
Border Patrol DAC
Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Bluesound Node
Zu Audio Mission speaker cables
Decware I/Cs
PI Audio MiniBUSS
Zenhead, Grado 325e
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HockessinKid
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #47 - 07/09/21 at 16:18:04
 
Geno,

Unfortunately I will not be attending Decfest 2021. So it's unlikely there will be a comparison of the MWI modified CXN V2 and Steve's Holo Audio DAC.

While I haven't heard the Holo, I have stopped my search for excellent digital playback. For the price of the CXN V2 and Dan Wright's modifications ($1500) it's a good value IMHO and delivers exceptional sound quality in my system. And it's all in one box.

If anyone wants a listen and your in the greater Philly area just leave me a PM. I'm in northern Delaware, about 45 minutes south of downtown.

Cheers,

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
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dao
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #48 - 07/11/21 at 05:59:57
 
Y'all have been providing great info! I can't count the online reviews I've watched and read to research all the options/suggestions further.

Even though I could afford the KTE May, I just couldn't see spending more for the DAC than for my speakers or for the amps. It just seemed skewed. I did however pull the trigger on the Pontus II DAC.

I quickly put together a diagram with all the gear. I hope y'all will check it out.

For playing downloaded FLACS, I think I have several options, depicted in the diagrams, though I'm not sure what the pros and cons are of each method.

I'm hoping that once again you can help me choose the best option (A, B or C) to play FLACs that I've got here in house.

Many thanks for all the wonderful suggestions whether posted or PM'd. Smiley

Dao
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FLAC_Playing_Options.jpg

Forte IVs . Reisong A10 (temp) . 2 x SE84UFO2's (on order) . Pontus II . CXN V2
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Donnie
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Re: HELP BUILD SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH - ALMOST
Reply #49 - 07/11/21 at 11:40:08
 
Well dao, I see B as your best choice there because it is the only version with a Preamp.

Without a preamp you will be chasing your tail all of the time trying to get the volume balanced between your two amps.

I personally stream from computers and have for years. It works for my listening preferences. My main system runs off of a small form desktop and I have a laptop that floats between my garage and bedroom systems.

Another thing to think about if you do decide to stream from a computer is software. What are you planning to run and manage your files?

I'm a proponent of JRiver, there are many around here that love Roon and others.

Yes there are so many little pieces to the puzzle. USB cables, interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, etc...
They can all have a influence on your sound.
Then you get into power conditioning, vibration control, it seems like the list is endless!

I've always considered myself a skeptic of all of the "magic" audiophile tweaks, but dammed if they all don't seem to help.

All I can say is to have fun listening to your stereo.
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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