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Vinyl cleaning service (Read 6812 times)
Geno
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Vinyl cleaning service
06/13/21 at 19:29:52
 
I’m not sure if anything about this company has been discussed on the forum previously, but I just read about this vinyl cleaning service (Perfect Vinyl Forever) on Goldmines website. Evidently, either 16 or 32 record cleaning orders are available. Once you pick the quantity, they mail you a container so that you can send them.

I have about 100 or so out of my collection that I might want deep cleaned, so it could be an option for me.

This is the website: https://www.perfectvinylforever.com/
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #1 - 06/13/21 at 19:56:28
 
Geno,

 After reading the long white paper on the subject, I did my albums one at a time, and for the most part was more than satisfied with the manual process. Thing is, that cleaning records one by one manually takes time. I am using the Disc Doctor method, complete with great brushes, rinses in distilled water, and any other thing that I can do in the kitchen. One new record still had surface noise that was unmistakably some kind of dirt in the grooves and even produced noise in a sort of 'wall of dirt' lined up by my process, so then I read this option done by someone else with these ultrasonic machines and more. I am very tempted to send along at least a few records to them for better results. So, is the minimum amount 16 at a time? If so, I still can't make sense of the TOTAL cost for this.
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Geno
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #2 - 06/13/21 at 20:18:20
 
Hi 4krow,

Yes, it appears that 16 is the minimum order.  Yep, pretty expensive, especially if you use their premium service. They claim that their methods are the best available.

I sure would like to send 16 to them to see for myself. I’ll have to think about it…
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #3 - 06/13/21 at 22:42:53
 
I posted in another tread about my experience with a Degritter US machine.  Given my 1000+ lp collection I ended up with a $3/lp cost.  The process these guys describe goes well beyond what I did with the Degritter but I could approximate it with more time/effort.  I'm satisfied with my system and I think the cost was justified.  If you don't have enough records to justify a home machine then this service might make sense, even at their prices.  For me, time is a factor so the hand-washing techniques did not appeal.

Cleaning one's entire collection is desirable because even if sound isn't the goal, clean records are easier on a stylus.
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Geno
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #4 - 06/13/21 at 23:47:30
 
Good point on wear on the stylus, Archie.

Speaking of wear on the stylus, not too long ago, I inherited a few hundred classical albums that were mostly played on an old console stereo (the ones that were designed to be as much a piece of furniture as a stereo) that the record player did not have a proper cartridge.

Some sound really good, but I’m sure that I am really hurting my stylus playing them. And worse than that, I guess the stylus could be hurting my newer albums??? Thoughts?
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #5 - 06/14/21 at 00:42:11
 
Actually, you might be plowing virgin vinyl!  My old lps that I played on a Pioneer PL10 with a crappy cart sound great with these new fine-line styluses.

Keep your stylus clean.  I got ahold of a DS-50 pad and I use it after each lp.  It's sticky and really pulls off the crud.  They are severely over priced for 2 cents of rubber but they work.  The Degritter vendor threw it in with my purchase.

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DSAST50&utm_source=bing&utm_med...
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Geno
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #6 - 06/14/21 at 01:09:37
 
How does this stylus cleaner compare to the zerodust? I’ve been using it for quite a while and it seems to work well, but I’m willing to try this if it works better. Thanks!
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #7 - 06/14/21 at 01:18:07
 
I imagine they are very similar.  I've never seen the Zerodust.  The DS-50 is aggressively sticky.  You can easily lift it up if you touch it with your fingernail.  It comes in a fancy machined aluminum case that must cost 1000X what the compound does.  I wash it periodically with water and once dry it's same as new.
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Geno
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #8 - 06/14/21 at 01:27:15
 
My bad. I was thinking it was you that recommended the zerodust to me.

Looks like this may work a little better. It is pricey though! But Hell, what isn’t in this hobby Cheesy

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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #9 - 06/14/21 at 02:09:30
 
Since I have just gotten back into vinyl, I only own about 25 albums so far, most of them are new. All have been cleaned, but for a total cost of $110 I am willing to send 16 of them into these guys. Only a couple of the new albums have any noise of any kind, but this will tell me if ultra sonics is a good idea for me sometime in the future. I will report my experience sometime after all is said and done.
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #10 - 06/14/21 at 02:28:43
 
New lps benefit from cleaning IMExp.  I just do the ultrasonic.  There is a great thread at Steve Hoffman Forums that I took part in for a while.  One guy is quite an expert on the science and helped a lot of us out.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/degritter-users.856572/page-54

I'd have to dig back to find some of the meaty posts but there is a wealth of info there.
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #11 - 07/18/21 at 05:18:33
 
 Got 16 albums back from PVF today. They all had the #3 Archival treatment. I can say this>>> they don't sound worse. heh heh. So, any benefits you ask? Yes, on an old Fleetwood Mac 'Mystery to me' album, the noise floor is definitely lower. This album was disappointing when I bought it used, having surface noise. I cleaned it as well as I am able and not much better. When it arrived today, I was anxious to hear any differences. Might have been more detail, but as I said the noise was lowered most notably.
 On a Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' 45 RPM recording which was well taken care of, I am impressed with the sheer beauty of the recording. Any improvement there? I don't see how there could be.
Let me sum up this way, I believe that every record played so far is quieter, though I felt that they were to begin with. In some cases I am hearing the recording hall or studio better and I like that. There are quite a few more to listen to so I will you all posted. I am curious as to whether a few in the crowd have a dramatic effect. I have no doubt that it is possible.
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Geno
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #12 - 07/18/21 at 19:38:37
 
Thanks for sharing, 4K. I’ve been real curious about the effectiveness of this process. Please post another review after you’ve had a chance to listen more.

If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what was the total cost for the 16 albums? How was the transaction-ease and quality of shipping, time it took, etc.?  

Best,

Geno.
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #13 - 07/18/21 at 23:44:05
 
Geno,

  Glad to hear some interest in this audio neck of the woods. $160 was the total cost of 16 albums being treated with the 'best method' that PVF has to offer. I believe that it was closer to $110 for a step down in treatment. This total cost so it isn't all about the service itself. There is 3 way shipping involved.
 I was most interested in shipping/packing quality from the start, and I would say that every measure within reason was made for the safety in shipping. A fairly stiff foam was used on all insides of the box and the slipcovers included were as good as any I have ever seen. I am picky about that and have learned the value of quality slip covers when handling albums. There were  sheet foam separators between each album. Even the tape that they prefer you use was included to keep dust out.
 Now as to the efficiency of return service it took about from ordering the shipping box on June 24rd until the July 17 that I received the albums back. 4th of July was in middle of it all, so that had a day or 2. Impressively, each album cover was dated for the type of service and the date serviced. Mine show July 8th for a service date.
The website shows a 5 day turnaround, but I am betting that will be changed, since there are a huge number of albums that arrive each week. To my knowledge the owner and his two daughters are the only ones handling all of this.
Considering everything about this experience, my honest opinion is that this is a small business doing it's best to complete orders AND do each order properly. If I hadn't had the experience myself, I might not be so understanding, but this is likely a business that you are married to once it starts up.
I will simply have to listen to more albums in the near future to have a better appreciation as to what differences or not there are. So far, I am guessing that this is a really good idea for albums that are older that you value but may need better cleaning than you can manage. In spite of my best efforts, I sometimes think that all I am doing is pushing some of the dust around. Simple fact is if you are lucky enough not to have some kind of added damage even while cleaning the album, consider yourself fortunate.
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #14 - 07/19/21 at 00:26:10
 
If you're really interested in the mechanics/chemistry of record cleaning I highly recommend you peruse the link I posted above.  Some of those guys are beyond anything you'd imagine in persistence and expertise.  There is a pretty good demarcation of the diminishing returns line but many go significantly beyond it!
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #15 - 07/19/21 at 02:32:32
 
Archie,

That link along with the white paper from I don't know who, caused me to think more seriously about record care from the very beginning that it comes into my collection. The more I learned, the less that I felt could be successfully accomplished at home. Even where I started reading that link, they were talking about how a Degritter machine damaged the album it was cleaning! Many offhand responses to that post only reminded me just how many things can go wrong, and how little the actual problem is realized by many who offer advice. Let's say that the idea of vacuuming records for example will remove a lot of the dust. Agreed. Now the vacuum machine being used ALSO is streaming air AND dust in the very room that you are cleaning? Hmmm. Not too much forethought there. I could go on, but suffice it to say I have found it impossible to clean a surface with a dirty cloth or in a dirty environment.
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #16 - 07/19/21 at 02:44:13
 
Quote:
... they were talking about how a Degritter machine damaged the album it was cleaning! ...


I cleaned over 1000 lps with mine and I don't see how this was possible unless it was severe user error.  It's a pretty failsafe system.  The only issue I had was with some cleaner residue which I managed to reduce with a different cleaning solution formula.  A rinse cycle would likely eliminate most though.  Like you experienced with the cleaning service, I got lower noise floor and MUCH fewer pops and clicks.  I also think detail improved.
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #17 - 07/19/21 at 03:01:47
 
 Many years ago, I owned one of the famous VPI vacuuming machines for my albums. Here is what happened: The liquid went on very well, the scrubbing was good, and THEN I turned on the vacuum. Sucked that wand right down on the vinyl causing damage. I am a mechanically talented person, who knows a defective/badly engineered product when I see one. In this case, the stiction of the vacuum wand did not allow the wand to lower until sufficient vacuum was achieved. When that did occur, then the wand was slammed down against the vinyl and stayed that way.

In my life, over and over, I have seen honest attempts at a great idea only to be poorly executed on the production line. Almost every category that I can think of, even in the medical field, not enough care went far enough for the item being used. Sorry to sound bitter, but so many times, I have to insist on doing jobs myself due to the lake of trust that I have in those who were supposedly trained for the job in the first place.
These days, I work at a local museum that you would expect a higher level of understanding about the quality of care for items. Not so. There is simply no room to write all of the frustrations over the course of time.

Again, I am just letting off steam here. My final thought is that the one place that I would trust record cleaning to is PVF. No harm came from them. none.
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #18 - 07/19/21 at 06:53:13
 
Yeah, those vacuum record cleaners scare the hell out of me.  The ultrasound are much better.  Nothing but the fluid and soundwaves touch the playing surface with the Degritter.  Some mechanical pad agitation might get things cleaner but they run the risk of surface damage too.  Cleaning records is like cleaning a stain out of cloth.  At a certain point of aggressiveness, the cloth tears!

Quote:
even in the medical field

LOL, I'd fear the most about what happens with modern "medicine!"
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ZLC
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4krow
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #19 - 07/20/21 at 18:45:21
 
Archie,

 I value your responses and experience here. cleaning a microscopic surface means more than wiping it with a dishcloth. Ultra-sonics would seem to be by far the best method available.
At the moment, I am not listening to vinyl since I am having my bathroom remodeled. There isn't enough plastic sheeting in the world to protect the rest of the house from dust! My albums are secured in a safe place, but it will definitely be some time before I feel that the house is as clean as needed to consider albums. Rats, I had little choice. Been putting this off for years. Good news is that there were no surprises behind/under the old bathtub.
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Archie
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Re: Vinyl cleaning service
Reply #20 - 07/20/21 at 19:10:16
 
Very wise.  Remodel dust goes everywhere despite best intentions and wishful thinking!

My TT has an integral dust cover which I swear by.  I've never been able to hear any difference with, without, up or down.  Just saying.

I went for 40+ years with just the old Disc Washer and homemade fluid.  I looked at the vacuum type RCMs a few times over the years but they always seemed too "cumbersome" to use.  Having gone the way I did, I found that convenience was far more important to me than price.  That said, I wouldn't think a $3k machine makes sense for just a few hundred lps.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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