Forums - Room treatment complete

Geno

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Without music, life
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Posts: 2000

Room treatment complete - almost
05/16/21 at 03:59:45

I got another box of the Pi Audio diffusers yesterday (4 to a box).

I put 2 on the front wall to help cover part of the window. The next box I order, one will go horizontally on the top of the window.

The other 2 are at the first reflection points on each side wall.

Also with the next box, I’ll go to the ceiling in each corner too.

Another thank you to HK. He has helped me with great advice as much as anyone on this forum, and I appreciate it very much!

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piezoman

Ex Member

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #1 - 05/16/21 at 12:13:25

Geno, awesome!

And beautiful room, beautiful system.

HK has helped me too, along with Palomino and Lonely Raven. Dave at PI Audio has been indispensable and a mountain of help. Ive got the AQD1's. Diffusers make a HUGE difference. Reflections be gone, the sound is lively and clear.

Enjoy!!!

Brad

PS - If I had listened to the people at GIK, my room would have been stuffed to the gills with 6" bass absorbers everywhere.....a surefire way to make a room deader than door nail.....disconcerting and depressing.

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HockessinKid

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Posts: 1090

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #2 - 05/16/21 at 13:49:14

Most folks never take the room into consideration when they set up an audio system. And many have to integrate a system into a room serving many purposes. Instead of a knee jerk reaction to upgrade equipment, everyone should consider the limitations the room presents. Then look for solutions.

There are a lot of simple, inexpensive "treatments" that are easy to employ. Positioning equipment, especially speakers is especially important and overlooked. One should experiment to the degree possible with speaker placement. The results can be very rewarding.

Anyway, that's why audio forums are so helpful. You can learn from others who have experience with the pitfalls and save yourself a lot of money unnecessarily upgrading equipment to try and improve the sound.

Enjoy your Sunday folks. I'm about to embark on a week painting my basement. Sherwin Williams Duration Realist Beige in a mattte finish The stereo will be on of course!

HK

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Lon

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Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #3 - 05/16/21 at 14:03:49

You people who can treat a room are fortunate. Just not something I can do--there's no room here for a dedicated room, and no allowance to integrate room treatment into a multi-purpose room. I have a small house, an expanded cottage, and don't live alone and have to consider and please my wife. There are ways to get great sound in untreated rooms, thank God! I find the ZROCK2, and my PS Audio regenerators with their modes to be accomplices in my accomplishing astonishingly good sound in untreated rooms.

Also the last decade or so I've come to appreciate all the amazing sound great headphones and a great headphone amp can produce.

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HockessinKid Seasoned Member Posts: 1090	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #4 - 05/16/21 at 15:41:54 Yup Lon. There is a solution for almost any situation. A ZRock or in some cases an equalizer can be very helpful. Thanks for pointing this out. I still think that most folks simply don't take the room into consideration. There are work arounds for almost anything, well maybe except a closet. HK
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Geno

Seasoned Member

Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #5 - 05/16/21 at 16:02:22

No doubt. Growing up listening to stereos, we never took into account how much speaker placement and the room effected the sound.

A good friend had a really nice system in his bedroom. He had the right components, but it was all crammed into the room with a bed in the middle. There was no good way to setup the speakers.

I remember thinking that the speakers just weren’t very good. We never considered that placement and the room was ruining the sound.

I know that my rack setup in the middle is blocking my center image a bit, but my old school desire for a certain look is just as important to me. Besides that, in this room, there really isn’t a way to set things up on a side wall.

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charles hidalgo Seasoned Member Posts: 493	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #6 - 05/17/21 at 02:40:45 Looks good! I like Greg's stuff also and it's been affordable.
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charles hidalgo Seasoned Member Posts: 493	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #7 - 05/17/21 at 02:44:06 ...
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Geno Seasoned Member Without music, life would be a mistake. Posts: 2000	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #8 - 05/17/21 at 03:52:09 Awesome Charlie! Looks like you treatmented yourself into the room. The door is sealed off
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Geno

Seasoned Member

Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #9 - 05/20/21 at 14:07:59

This is a great example of how a good forum will really help with good suggestions and information.

The discussion about whether or not Brads center diffusers were too high or not. It got me to thinking.

As an experiment, I moved my left side first reflection diffuser to above what I already had in the center. The imaging and focus was immediately noticeably better.

This makes me a lot more excited about getting one more box (4 panels) to finish treatment.

It is prolly true too that covering more of the window has just as much of a positive result as the diffusion.

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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles

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piezoman Ex Member	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #10 - 05/21/21 at 20:26:12 Hey Geno, I'm really glad Dave's reply worked well for you! You certainly have a top-flight system, and all the diffusion allows it to sound more like it was intended. Fantastic!
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Enrico Verified Member Posts: 24	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #11 - 10/29/21 at 12:25:21 wow Geno, how beautiful your room and your system! We are lucky to have a little corner of the house all to ourselves ...
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Tony

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"Life without
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inconceivable"
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Posts: 622

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #12 - 10/31/21 at 02:50:10

Hi Geno,

The work you did on your room inspired me to start thinking about diffusers in my listening room. To that end, I talked with Greg at PI Audio, and he was helpful. In your room, now after a couple of months after completing the project, are you still feeling good about the results? Is there anything you might suggest or do differently?

I have Caintuck OB speakers and considering putting two Mr. T panels together vertically, from the floor towards the ceiling, behind the speakers and in front of two separate windows. The two windows, behind the speakers are almost the same height as the two joined diffusers.

In your picture, the diffusers in front of the one large window, did you join them together? Did you glue them or stack them together? Are they heavy? Can you move them away from the window? Will they stand vertically on their own, or did you mount them on a board?

I know that my questions will find answers once the project begins, but any suggestions from your experience would be instructive. Thanks.

Tony

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Geno

Seasoned Member

Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #13 - 10/31/21 at 14:56:06

Good morning Tony.

The diffusers work very well. I’m happy with the results. I ended up getting another 4-pack (that’s how they come) and going all the way to the ceiling in the corners. The ones on bottom are just sitting on the floor, but the ones above are attached to the wall using T-pins. These were suggested by forum member HK. They would look better all attached to the wall, above the baseboards, but I have a few situations where they must sit on the floor. At the window, the two below are on the floor, but the one above hangs from a wire on each end. The panels are made out of some type of dense styrofoam, and are very light. I also treated the first reflection points on each side. See photos:

Best,

Geno

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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles

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DirtDawg

Ex Member

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #14 - 03/13/22 at 21:40:20

OK, Geno, I think you have gotten me there.
Those seem fairly cheap and you've gone back for seconds, so I assume they work well.

I could have those up before I get my shop up and running, I think. Have you posted a link to the actual prduct you bought? I like yours, but they are different from what is hawked on the Audiogon website prominently.

The ones I see now are like what CharlesHidalgo posted. I like your lighter color more. Or did you paint yours?

I'm getting a lot of "File Not Found" or "Web Page Does Not Exist" type stuff.
Any help?

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Geno Seasoned Member Without music, life would be a mistake. Posts: 2000	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #15 - 03/14/22 at 00:29:15 Hi Dirt. The diffusers come from PI Audio. Charlie has the same ones. They can be painted a variety of colors. The gentleman I dealt with is Greg Rael. g.rael@comcast.net 505-440-8834 Best, Geno
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Geno Seasoned Member Without music, life would be a mistake. Posts: 2000	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #16 - 03/14/22 at 00:33:53 A link to their website: https://piaudiogroup.com/ I think they sell their diffusers on Audiogon too.
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DirtDawg Ex Member	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #17 - 03/14/22 at 03:59:43 Thank you. I'll contact soon. I really like the look of what you posted and they seem to be very budget friendly. Three months supporting two mortgages took its toll on my fun money for a while. But I can manage those to start. Awesome! Thanks, again!
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kulafu Seasoned Member Posts: 207	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #18 - 03/14/22 at 19:39:05 As I am a few months away from "room treatment", how does one measure the first reflection point for the audio frequency spectrum that we should be concerned with? Or is it play by ear? Your thoughts, as usual, are really appreciated! Bob
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Geno Seasoned Member Without music, life would be a mistake. Posts: 2000	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #19 - 03/14/22 at 20:01:32 Hi Bob. I never have used any analyzation software - just my calibrated eardrum. If it sounds good, with not much echo, it's a wrap. Best, Geno
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kulafu Seasoned Member Posts: 207	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #20 - 03/14/22 at 21:18:41 Geno, Thanks the good ol Mk1 Mod 0 ear is useful for something! Bob
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jpv Seasoned Member Cause inside everyone is a heavy metal kid Posts: 168	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #21 - 03/15/22 at 22:23:29 You need to make the absorption as wide band as you can (Thick as possible). If you got too thin you are just absorb the higher frequencies leaving the lower frequencies to reflect back to you. I use 4" of rockwool with an 3" air gap to broaden the range.
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kulafu Seasoned Member Posts: 207	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #22 - 03/16/22 at 12:14:07 JPV, Can you show us pics? And type of rockwool? 7 inches....That is pretty thick.
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GroovySauce

Seasoned Member

Posts: 815

Re: Room treatment complete - almost
Reply #23 - 03/16/22 at 13:26:26

As I am a few months away from "room treatment", how does one measure the first reflection point for the audio frequency spectrum that we should be concerned with? Or is it play by ear? Your thoughts, as usual, are really appreciated!

Bob, this video does a quick job of explaining a good way to find the first reflection points skip to 2:10 if you want to get straight to the how to. it's only 3 mins long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9u7k2V4YPw

I've heard rumor that Rockwool is toxic similar to asbestos. Rockwool is spun glass and the dust is harmful if inhaled.

I started another thread https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1600265227 which might give some more ideas for room treatment.

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kulafu Seasoned Member Posts: 207	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #24 - 03/16/22 at 22:13:32 GS. Thanks for that! Definitely do not want that toxic stuff! Bob
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GroovySauce Seasoned Member Posts: 815	Re: Room treatment complete - almost Reply #25 - 03/17/22 at 13:08:45 Welcome! Correction, Rockwool is spun molten rock, not glass. Maybe that's why it's called Rock Wool ;D
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