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Ready For Another Decware Amp? (Read 8874 times)
Doug
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Ready For Another Decware Amp?
03/14/21 at 01:37:27
 
I’d like to preface my questions by stating that Decware products are first class, and that Steve and his team provide outstanding customer service.  I have made numerous Decware purchases over the past 8 years and am currently enjoying the heck out of my CSP3–25 preamp and my FRX2 drivers in my Pure Audio Project Quintets.  I am strongly considering trying a third Decware amplifier.

My favorite amps ever were my Cary Audio 2A3 Special Edition mono blocks.  The sound quality of these amps was stunning!  I loved everything about the way they reproduced music.  The huge Lowther horns they drove were a match made in heaven.  But......there were a few issues that drove me to madness—their noisy transformers, their very short tube life due to high bias settings, and the price of decent sounding 2a3 power tubes.  A nice sounding pair of tubes would set me back $400 to $500, and this was a regular 15 to 18 month occurrence.  I played this game for more than a dozen years before making the decision to sell them.  I sold them on eBay and ordered a Decware SE84CKC.

The Zen arrived and I used it with the super high efficiency horns for several months and then decided to move on to other speakers.  (One of my sons-in-law still uses my old Lowther horns in his main system.)  I bought a pair of Zu Audio Definition MkIII speakers that had a SPL rating of 101 db at 1 watt.  The Definitions each contained six 10” drivers and that awesome horn tweeter.  Unfortunately, I was never happy with sound of either of these speaker systems being driven by the little Zen.  Was it fast?  Yes, it was incredibly fast!  Did it image as well or better than my big Cary mono blocks?  Yes.  Was it quiet?  The Zen’s one transformer was far more quiet than the two huge loudly buzzing transformers on the Carys.  Did the SE84CKC produce as much detail as the Carys did.  Maybe, but to me it seemed cold and analytical.  I eventually sold it and ordered a Torii Jr, hoping that the Jr would give me the imaging and the detail of the little Zen but with more warmth and musical beauty.  

Somewhere along the way I sold the Zu Definitions and bought the PAP Quintets, which I’m now using in my main system.  I also purchased a LFD NCSE solid state amplifier which I like very much.  Before selling my Torii Jr, I used it to drive my Quintets, but I was never completely happy with the sound.  It was definitely warmer sounding than the Zen, and it had a far more authoritative way with the Quintets, but it still completely lacked that liquid euphonic sound of the Carys.  So I continue to use my LFD NCSE power amp in my main system.  

I think the LFD is rated at about 60 watts per channel.  It’s imaging and sound staging ability is excellent.  It captures the essential sound of instruments better than any amp I have ever heard.  I very much like the way it reproduces vocals, but it’s not even close to the way the Carys could melt away a day’s worth of anxieties.  I need more of the liquidity that’s inherent in the big SET tubes, and I hoping I can get it in a Decware amplifier.

So here are my questions.

1) Are any of the Decware amps, with careful tube selection, capable of giving me some of the luscious sound of a good 2a3 or 300b amp?

2) if so, which Decware amp would be the best option, and what tubes would I need to be considering?

3) Am I simply barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments!







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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #1 - 03/14/21 at 02:25:24
 
Doug, have you considered a ZROCK2? I have experience with the UFO25TH, Torii MK4-25th and ZMA-25th. None of them have sounded analytical or dead to me. It's possible to lean them out or richen them up with tube selection.

Based on what you have described I would suggest looking into a ZROCK-25th.
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Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Add-Powr Sorcer x4 | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15|AF Treatment
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Lon
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #2 - 03/14/21 at 02:45:25
 
I agree that the ZROCK2 would be an interesting tool that could help you get a more "lush" sound. I also might suggest a Taboo Mk IV which I find CAN be a bit richer and lusher with certain tube complements. Currently I am using Type 80 Globe rectifiers and 6SN7 tube types in my Taboo Mk IV and have a somewhat fuller presentation than my main system. My Taboo has the Anniversary mods, and I am using a CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods using the same rectifier and imput tube types.

The ZROCK2 with tube-rolling really does give one an "engineering" opportunity in a way--using it can give you access to shaping the sound in ways you may prefer. That component has become a centerpiece in the systems in my home.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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JOMAN
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #3 - 03/14/21 at 04:22:10
 
Doug,
I've read over your comments more than once and have highlighted an excerpt:

I loved everything about the way they reproduced music.  The huge Lowther horns they drove were a match made in heaven.

At times you can find components off the shelf that will communicate music.  It may be the synergy of the combinations of certain components.  In my experience very few do, as (IMO) most focus on sound rather music.  Recently Bootlehead posted a Youtube video of the comments of a deaf audiophile and I believe it was you that responded very insightfully to the post. I also noted your expression "liquid euphonic" when referring to the Cary Monos.  To me this describes is more than sound.

So can you get this from a Decware system? Yes.  Will it sound exactly like your Cary Monos and Lowthers.  NO.  Will it communicate music.  Yes, definitely!  But it will may be an off the shelf solution, so to speak. You will have to work at it a bit.

For me it is the ZR2 + CSP3 (now modded) + The SE84UFO25. They do exactly what you describe.  But I did have to work at it by learning to roll tubes and then getting the right tube set.  All the while working with the gain structure and speaker placement.  After a while it became fairly straight forward.  Will that do it for you?  I don't know as I do not have first hand experience with the PAP speakers that you have.  You may want to talk with Steve.

While not telling you exactly what Decware amp to get, I hope that this is of some help in finding a Decware solution.

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JOMAN
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #4 - 03/14/21 at 04:25:32
 
Doug,

One correction "But it not be an off the shelf solution" not "But it will may be an off the shelf solution"
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JOMAN
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #5 - 03/14/21 at 04:27:09
 
It's late, so one more time... "But it may not be an off the shelf solution".
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will
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #6 - 03/16/21 at 00:46:26
 
I have never pursued what I think of as notably "euphonic" per se, though musical "liquidity" and "lucidity" are goals for me. Of the Decware amps I have heard, SE34, Rachel, Taboo III, Blue Torii, Torii III and IV, though as mentioned, you can do a lot with tubes (and cables, etc), I am afraid Decware amps are just not designed to be as euphonic as it sounds like you want, levels of euphonic possible, but the amps tending more toward revealing and transparent.

In terms of "warmth," of the above, the Torii III and IV have more warm orientation than others I have heard, but also pretty revealing of fine detail / harmonics, especially with tubes that bring this out. Decays and textures being a big part of a lucid musicality to me, and all can be more liquid and smooth with the right tubes and setup, but notably euphonic....not sure. All so relative depending how we each interpret our descriptors, I think it is hard to say for me without having heard your Cary amps, but judging from your evaluations of the 84CKC and Torii Jr, I am guessing trying to get that Cary sound you loved with Decware amps may not work.

Which causes me to wonder... If your system was "tuned" using more euphonic/warm amps, is it possible you were tuning in extra clarity to compensate, leaving Decware amps tending more toward "cold and analytical?" I have never gotten that feeling from Decware, but I am seeking the musical clarity with natural harmonic beauty well implemented tubes can give, not what I would call "euphonic." I can sort of imagine, these qualities I love taken further could result in "euphonic," but cold and analytical is not a descriptor I could use for my amps. So just wondering if some aspects of your system/room are contributing.

I have not heard the ZROCK, but from most reports, in combination with your 25th CSP3, recommendations for adding another tube pre stage that is designed for lucid warmth/bass tuning makes some conceptual sense to me. 

Also, have you played much with your CSP3-25 settings ...adjusting the tube pots for an altered tonal baseline. The pots higher will increase voltage-out potential, loading the sound with more body, dynamics and lucidity. I don't use the CSP3 for volume, using it for gain tuning with the amp by 1st finding the ideal range of both amp and pre balanced together for the best sound....Then at the same volume, more CSP3/less amp, will fill out the sound more in every way, more of everything. And less CSP/more amp, leaner/calmer, better for dark/thick recordings.

If you haven't explored tubes much with the CSP3, for notable liquid warmth with lucidity, I am imagining a tube set like Lon mentions might help....a type 80 globe, and 6SN7s for input, or perhaps 6SN7 outputs, the place I like 6SN7s. Not a cheap experiment, but Cunningham Globes  are pretty liquid, a little warmish and clear with a smooth top. To me, in my setup, they are little dark and rolled off, but overall they do things that could promote a euphonic feel, warm with a fair bit of ambient space. They are also touchy though, not rated for 47uF caps like your CSP3 has, and some folks they seem to work for, and others they give a nice light show and fail.

In general, I have found tall bottle 5U4GBs to be one of the most warm/full rectifiers while still being detailed and spacious....the right ones perhaps helping toward your goal. As an experiment I have a pair of tall bottle Raytheon 6SN7 GTBs with top D getter in the CSP3 outputs, dynamic and on the warm/smooth side of neutral. For input is an early 60s Mullard PCC88, and a tall GE 5U4GB slightly fat bottle with laddered black plates that have fins on both sides of the plates. I imagine euphonic needing notable fine details and space along with liquid warmth, and this set leans this way to me.

Anyway, a few more thoughts.

Good luck!

Will
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Brian
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #7 - 03/16/21 at 05:01:30
 
Hello Doug,
My thought is: Ask Steve if he will change the grid stop resistor of one of his amps to a Tantalum resistor from the type he is using. I have been told this will richen the sound.

I have also been told that most of the flavour we hear comes from the stage furthest upstream toward the source. The power amp only amplifying the sound character sent to it by the preamp. So if you are going to optimise only one component for a desired sound, it ought to be the preamp.
That is only hear-say to me, so hopefully someone who knows from experience can refute it or confirm it.

Brian
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CAJames
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #8 - 03/16/21 at 14:43:31
 
Quote:
Hello Doug,

...I have also been told that most of the flavour we hear comes from the stage furthest upstream toward the source. The power amp only amplifying the sound character sent to it by the preamp.


I don't know about that. My experience is you can make significant differences with either the preamp or the power amp, or usually, both of them working together to fine tune the sound.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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will
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #9 - 03/16/21 at 23:37:28
 
My experience is like CAJames. Everything in my system notably influences the whole of the sound whether toward the beginning or end of the chain. I think this is in part due to our very simple and revealing Decware circuits. Also, over years I feel like I have sorted out notable weak links as much as I am able at this point. Always evolving, I seem to always be working on fine-tuning my system and room from power to speaker modifications and room treatment and adjustments. The baseline has been really good for a long time though, the pretty tuned up pieces before my amp critical to how far the whole can go.... computer, USB convertor, DAC, ZBIT, and CSP3, the initial sound is quite revealing, resolving, and musical to me, and I can change any of the cables, feet or fuses of these components and clearly hear it after the sound makes its way through the Torii and HR-1s.

But the Torii is the same here. I can change tubes in one of five tube positions and hear quite notable changes to the whole of the sound...

Further indicating that it all matters, I modified my Torii part by part, and by sound, testing lots and lots of parts over time. And though some are more similar than others, be it a connector, wire, cap, or resistor, all comparisons were clear enough to make sonic choices toward a more complete system sound.

Leading me to Brian's thought about resistors. Resistor changes, whether in the signal path, power path, or to ground, I was really impressed that they all were quite noticeable. So much so, even after I knew them better, finding the most synergistic and complete one for a given position might have taken 3-5 tests with resistors I had already narrowed down for my tastes over other well-liked resistors. And like caps, they didn't appear to make any more change in the signal path than in the power paths. After years of this, it remains amazing to me that a cap or resistor in the power supply can make as notable a sound change as in the signal path.

Early on, I bought a number of Shinkoh tantalums on sale because those who loved them really loved them, and I apparently believed them. I also got a more costly Audio Note tantalum to test in the signal path and a few other places. After living with them a while I felt like I got their sonic characteristics, and overall, I could see why some people like them, especially if their component is lacking weight and density in the signal.

To me these tantalums are notably extended, smooth, articulate and bold. They tend to feel quite solid and nicely detailed with openness and articulation, and without being particularly hard. Sound like an audiophile dream?

Unusually bold in presentation, they do all they do in a powerful way. So they can be used to pump things up. The Audio Note especially, if extra strong bass supplementation is needed, but for me both were finally overstated sounding, too much self sound, and the Audio Note too exaggerated in the bass for me to enjoy.

The Shinkohs, still bold and extended with a strong solid bass, were better balanced to me, so I played with them a lot. Especially going to ground, they could add a nice articulate solidity while not showing as much of their self-sound. But in time I more fully noticed some other traits I grew to dislike.

First I noticed they were smooth and warmish, but without a sweet musicality.... So though having traits many of us associate with "musical," they seemed a little technical and cool in expressing those traits to me, more an intellectual representation of music than music. Then I noticed, even to ground, where I was liking them for the most part, their solid, extended and bold sound seemed to come, in part, from consolidating all that made the signal.

The ringer for me, this concentration of the signal was at a cost of reduced discrete fine detail complexity. They appeared nicely detailed, articulate and spacious, but I felt they combined too much of the micro detail with macro detail for my needs, making them incomplete. It was not a lack of detail per se, most everything there, but a distinct lack of fine detail that contributes to harmonic complexity....textures, feathered edges, air quality, decays, ambience.... these were present, but all suffered from detail complexity consolidation to me.

This is not to say they could not be well used. But for me fine detail and space are critical to the natural musical experience, and it was a minor revelation to notice that these resistors damaged that in my explorations, making the detail complexity I love easier to get by slowly replacing the tantalums. And detail complexity and spaciousness are things I imagine to be important aspects of "euphonic" sound. Also for "warmth" I need fine detail to harmonize increased bass in the balance. Without complex detail and space, the tube would be dark rather than warm to me.

So my experiments indicate that tantalums can be really good at what they do, but I am thinking they may not necessarily be the best fix for increased warmth or a euphonic sound.


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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Brian
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #10 - 03/18/21 at 03:45:36
 
Thanks fellas, for correcting my error.

I dislike sending on bad information.

Brian
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Brian
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #11 - 03/18/21 at 03:58:56
 
Your assessment of the Tantalum resistors was especially enlightening, Will.
I thank you.

Brian
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will
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #12 - 03/21/21 at 06:52:43
 
Brian, sorry I missed this. You are surely welcome..... that was my take on tantalums anyway.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Doug
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Ready For Another Decware Amp? & The Magical CSP3 25th
Reply #13 - 08/15/21 at 05:02:47
 
I hope this doesn’t come across as sacrilegious and heretical, but after several months of contemplation I moved forward and purchased a Cary Audio CAD-300SEI MK 6 integrated amp with a 30 day trial period for the purpose of auditioning it in my main system.  It’s sometimes downright odd how things turn out, and this is one of those strange cases.

I had this planned out perfectly.  If the big 300B Cary performed musically the way my previous Cary 2a3 mono blocks did, I was going to sell my CSP3 with 25th mods along with my LFD NCSE solid state amp and have a simpler system more to my taste—I can’t help it that I am so drawn to the music produced by a well made amp with big SET tubes; that’s just the way it is for me.  To me, the new mark 6 version of the Cary 300B integrated reproduces music more beautifully than any amplifier I have ever had in my home.  Within a day or two of using it, I knew I would be keeping it.  But here’s where things turned.

I’ve had the Cary amp for about 5 weeks now.  About a week ago I grabbed my CSP3 and intended to take a few photos and put it on the Forum classifieds.  Well, I just happened to be reading some reviews on the various Sophia Electric 300B tubes, some of which I have used in the past, and I got sidetracked and read a couple reviews on the Sophia Electric Magic Box.  I’m sure I’ve read every review ever written about the Magic Box, but I, like most of you, enjoy reading about cool products that create beautiful music.  While re-reading one of the reviews, it hit me!  The reviewer had a bunch of amplifiers all lined up with the audio signal passing through each one.  Phono preamp, line level preamp, Magic Box, power amp.  It immediately reminded me of how Lon has described multiple layers of amplifiers in his systems.  The reviewer talked about the drastic increase in the density of the music and how much blacker and quieter his system became with the Magic Box engaged.  He also described a significant increase in detail.  I decided at that moment to slide in my CSP3 25th between my DAC and the 300B integrated (that has a full fledged SET preamp built in) just for kicks, and just to see how much distortion would be introduced.  I figured that there would be some extra density, but also that there would be intolerable levels of noise, distortion, and other unacceptable problems.  This exercise would be followed by me listing the CSP3 and selling it.  Here’s what happened next.

There was no increase in noise—none.  In fact, just the opposite was true.  The background got even quieter and blacker.  My new 300B is totally maxed out with every possible upgrade, and it is, by a very wide margin, the quietest tube amp I’ve ever owned. But how can the background be even blacker with the CSP3 driving the big Cary?  It makes no sense at all! Here’s where it really gets good.  The mark 6 Cary provides an incredibly high level of transparency and detail on its own, but with CSP3 in front, the combo delivers even more.  I don’t see how this is possible, but that is clearly what is happening.  Talk about density, especially in the tenor and upper bass regions of music.......it’s now astonishing!  Trombones, tympani, bass drums, tenor octaves on pianos, etc. are now massively full, exactly like the real instruments are.  I have been using my CSP3 to tailor the sound of music for several years but I never would guessed it could pair up with a true integrated amp and get these kind of results.  I’m really wondering why I actually tried it in the first place, but I’m so glad I did.  Even the tone and timbre of instruments has substantially improved.  Steve talks a lot about the audio gods visiting him.......I’m telling you, the audio gods had to have set this thing in motion. This Decware-Cary combo is producing music that is more satisfying, more emotional, more enjoyable, and more beautiful than I could have imagined.  My CSP3 25th has found its lifelong mate with the Cary 300SEI. System synergy is everything and I have certainly been blessed with synergy to the fullest.  I truly am sad that I was never 100% happy with a Decware power amp.  It’s just a personal preference for the sound of the big directly heated triode tubes that led me back down this path.  Be certain of this though; you will never see my CSP3 in the classifieds!
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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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Doug
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #14 - 08/15/21 at 05:12:21
 
Maybe it’s time to also slide in a ZR2!  Is it possible that a ZR2 could create another step up in musical beauty?
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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #15 - 08/15/21 at 05:51:38
 

The ZR2 set perfectly flat injects a musical beauty that is founded on midrange liquidity and overall sound stage insanity. If I wanted to be really mean I would build it into an amplifier with it's adjustments and there really wouldn't be a whole lot that would compete.

I think the biggest thing would be to get the Decware amplifier that has enough power to get the job done on whatever speakers you have, and then work on the signal going into it.  Use a CSP3 preamp or a ZROCK2 or both, and or a ZBIT, or a ZSTAGE, or ZBOX, or  a combination of the lot and get the signal you want entering the amplifier.

Again, at a much higher price point, many or all of these items could be built into the amplifier's gain stages to achieve the same sound.  But that raises the price, reduces flexibility.

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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #16 - 08/15/21 at 12:14:30
 
Steve, that's been my journey, and the way to audio happiness for me. Ideally it never ends, that is one can always seek a better source, but realistically I've come to the end of my spending resource at a point where it is comfortable to just rest on the system's lauels and so enjoy the music.

Doug, I truly think you should get on the waiting list for a ZROCK2. When it arrives you'll either be amazed at its beauty and flexibiity or be able to return it and know you are where you want to be without it.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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CAJames
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #17 - 08/15/21 at 14:57:16
 
For me, I've always felt that a great tube preamp is just as important as source, speakers and power amp when building a truly satisfying system.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Doug
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Re: Ready For Another Decware Amp?
Reply #18 - 08/29/21 at 01:15:04
 
Ok, you guys convinced me.  I just ordered a ZROCK2, even though I am currently extremely happy with my system.  I do have a couple of questions though.

If I decide to add all available upgrades to my ZR2, how many caps will be changed out and/or added?  And, what are the values of these cap changes and additions?  I ask because I’ve been toying around with the idea of trying a few of the relatively new VCAP ODAMs.  I’m definitely going to try a couple in my speaker crossovers in the very near future, and if they work out well, I may ask Steve to use them in my ZR2.  So, not being good on the technical side of the aisle, I’m curious to know exactly how many caps I would be looking at and what values they would be.
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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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