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How many times have you checked the Wait List? (Read 136018 times)
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #100 - 08/27/21 at 03:10:33
 
That is very positive! Pretty impressive. Hopefully not an outlier.

Brad
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piezoman
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #101 - 08/27/21 at 03:13:33
 
Quote:
  It took 3 weeks for my order to appear on the list. Thus there’s a waitlist to get on the waitlist
 exactly
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #102 - 08/29/21 at 19:46:28
 

"There’s a waitlist to get on the waitlist 😂"

Hahaha, I love it.

Personally, I honestly do not check the list more than 1 time per hour on the hour. I try not to check during night time but with the time difference between right coast and the left coast sometimes...

Serious I do not really check when I do I put it into a little spreadsheet I created, just but it is just to see the "rate".

Today I am close to leaving the "700 serie" and entering the 600 serie so getting closer everyday!!
:-)

cheers,

a.
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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #103 - 08/29/21 at 19:50:08
 


Steve,


Woooohaaaa, house hydrographic paint jobs on amplifier chassis how I love the red/black one on the right there.

That would not fit on a UFO2 by any chance??

;-)

Alain
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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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tubeshy
Verified Member
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Posts: 35
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #104 - 09/01/21 at 19:39:58
 
Once a month now only 203 to be built before mine  [smiley=cool.gif]
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Tony
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #105 - 09/01/21 at 23:36:45
 
Hey #203, that is pretty cool.  Hopefully you might receive your amp right around Christmas or New Years.  What a great way to start the New Year!  Sincerely, #360
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #106 - 09/01/21 at 23:53:06
 
I’m #197. The race is on!
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Geno
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Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #107 - 09/02/21 at 00:08:51
 
Hey guys. That’s awesome. Some comradery among those on the list. That’ll make the wait a little better. Be here before you know it  8-)
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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piezoman
Ex Member



Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #108 - 09/02/21 at 00:30:39
 
#475 here, cya in 12 mos! I'll bet I made the 3 of you feel that much better!
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Archie
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Posts: 2731
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #109 - 09/02/21 at 00:32:10
 
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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piezoman
Ex Member



Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #110 - 09/02/21 at 00:39:40
 
LOL
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Dr3wman
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #111 - 09/02/21 at 01:22:34
 
Ahem… #608.  :D
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Torii MKV/25 mods
PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamplifier
Technics SL-1200GR w/ Nagaoka MP-200.
KLH Model 3 speakers..
Sonos connect.
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #112 - 09/03/21 at 17:46:57
 
In future generations, ordering a Decware will be like opening an IRA.  Order in your 20’s with delivery by retirement 😂
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Dr3wman
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #113 - 09/03/21 at 18:00:51
 
Instead of a gold watch, you get a Zen amp...........sounds like a better deal to me. HAHAHA!
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Torii MKV/25 mods
PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamplifier
Technics SL-1200GR w/ Nagaoka MP-200.
KLH Model 3 speakers..
Sonos connect.
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Archie
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Posts: 2731
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #114 - 09/03/21 at 18:29:17
 
Can your place on the list be inherited in case of death?   Grin
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #115 - 09/03/21 at 19:04:26
 
Yes, list placement truly ought to be deeded...
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #116 - 09/03/21 at 21:47:28
 
Upon reflection, I’m going to sell my waitlist spot as a NFT.  This will allow me to retain my actual place in line and make a little cash on the side.

NFT asking price is $12 billion.  Hit me up with a PM if interested 😂🌈
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derekinla
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #117 - 09/07/21 at 06:31:47
 
https://ibb.co/YtMvtBL [img][/img]



Prepare for another bump in orders.. YouTuber Thomas & Stereo just got his hands on an SE84UFO2. He has about 1/4 the # of subscribers as Steve Guttenberg's Audiophiliac channel or Andrew Robinson's channel.  
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jec3504
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #118 - 09/07/21 at 15:44:43
 
5 months now almost my B-day ...time to check the list soon.
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piezoman
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #119 - 09/07/21 at 15:53:41
 
Quote:
 In future generations, ordering a Decware will be like opening an IRA.  Order in your 20’s with delivery by retirement 😂


LOL

Hey DancingSea, you're a-ok in my book  ;)

Brad
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ja1
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #120 - 09/09/21 at 03:28:57
 
Checked it twice today. Even though (or because) I received two Emails, My CSP325 shipped today and my ZMA has been updated to packing and shipping.  
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Tony
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
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Posts: 622
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #121 - 09/09/21 at 03:46:52
 
Hey ja1,

Congrats. That is so cool.  I bet next week will be memorable once everything is up and running.  Let us know how it sounds.

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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #122 - 09/09/21 at 06:40:34
 
In the spirit of “for what it’s worth”, on August 8th I was number 232. On September 8th I’m at 192.  That’s 40 orders in one month.  Which has been the average for several months.
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piezoman
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #123 - 09/09/21 at 15:04:41
 
DancingSea, that does seem to be the ongoing average. By winter, with the addition ofsome more techs, that average will increase. It will be fun to see what the output looks like after that point.

Hang in there, you're getting closer!
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #124 - 09/09/21 at 17:08:48
 
August 29th.
"Today I am close to leaving the "700 serie" and entering the 600 serie so getting closer everyday!!
:-)"

Just had a quick peak and I am now at 685. It is moving nicely!
Is it just me or has the pace accelerated lately?

Cheers,

alain

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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ja1
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Posts: 9
Off the list
Reply #125 - 09/11/21 at 04:44:50
 
I am officially off the list. My CSP325 is scheduled for delivery on Monday and my ZMA for Wednesday.
Tony, I will. Just keep in mind that it will be coming from a non audiophile  and from a music geek who just enjoys music. John
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Tony
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #126 - 09/11/21 at 05:38:28
 
Perfect.  As a non-audiophile myself, but a real lover of music, it will be fun to her your thoughts, impressions and feelings.  Also, I think you may have coined a new phrase that followers of this forum will be using in the future:  "Officially off the list."  It's got a great ring to it.  Enjoy the weekend.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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Lin
Ex Member



Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #127 - 09/11/21 at 14:14:16
 
You guys are funny, look up the definition of an audiophile.
You are spending how much money hoping your music sounds better?
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Tony
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #128 - 09/11/21 at 15:35:35
 
Hey Lin, OK you're on....

Audiophile - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Audiophile
An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction. ... An audiophile seeks to reproduce the sound of a live musical performance ...

Hmmmmm.  Yo ja1,  drop the "non-" in non-audiophile.  We've arrived.

Here's one more additional descriptor particularly relevant for this forum:  One who is able to delay gratification and demonstrates patience as they wait (seemingly like forever, at times) for their amp to be built. Smiley

I think Bob Dylan said that.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #129 - 09/11/21 at 17:42:31
 
"audiophile"

That word has been bastardized so many times...

These days I take it to mean someone who enjoys playing with tools that reproduce music.

Note here that "music" comes in second and the priority is on the hardware to reproduce it.

;-)


Cheers,

a.
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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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piezoman
Ex Member



Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #130 - 09/11/21 at 17:48:00
 
Yes indeedy.

An audiophile harbors a pretty serious neurosis in the nonending seeking of better and better sound. The serious audiophile tinkers with their toys in the exploration of improving upon whatever status quo was arrived at by the mfr. that renders to their ears, rooms, and system synergy the "best" that is apparent to them....an ongoing target. Thus, a hobby.

Most of us here are audiophiles on one level or another.
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #131 - 09/11/21 at 18:37:05
 
I’ve always wondered about the “seeks to reproduce a live performance” part of audiophile.  With rare exception, live music usually has mediocre sound quality at best. Particularly with amplified performances.  I wish live music sounded as good as my stereo.

In my opinion, “audiophile” is essentially a mental illness 😂.  For 25 years I was a music enthusiast who had a decent stereo.  In 2000 I researched gear on the internet.  Bought a YBA integrated amp, an Ah! Tjeob CD 4000, and Meadowlark Kestrel speakers.  DH Labs cables.  And that was it. Sounded great.  I had yet to become infected by the audiophile virus. Until 2016 I never once thought about upgrading my system. The thought never entered my mind.

In 2016 I made the faithful decision to research for a DAC that might make my computer playback rig sound better and stumbled across the Computer Audiophile forums.  It was akin to stumbling across that back alley in town where you can buy crack.  A few months later and the virus had fully taken root in my cells as an entire world of audio-philia opened before me.

Based on nothing other than reading forum posts, I became no longer satisfied with my equipment. The same equipment that had been utterly satisfactory for 16 years.  I live on an isolated little island in the middle of the pacific. It’s not that I heard a better system and became enthralled.  The virus stuck entirely because of reading far too many posts written by people who were only quasi satisfied with their system and eagerly search for upgrade.

That type of thought process entered my mind. I was both infected and converted.

Five years and $15,000 later, yes, my system does sound markedly better.  But I’m not sure the journey has been worth it.  I’m not sure the addition of a neurosis that’s overly concerned about sound quality has increased my musical enjoyment.   In some respects I’d like to turn back the clock to that faithful day that I sought to make iTunes sound as good as my CD player.  The smart move would’ve been to conclude that (to me) CD players sound better and ditch iTunes.

After exploring the world of computer audio in great length, Roon lifetime license, HQPlayer, and expensive DACs - I now find myself back where I started. Have pulled the computer plug and listen exclusively to physical CDs and SACDs on a Marantz Model 30/ SACD 30n/ LRS system.

I’m telling myself, with a shaky metaphoric cigarette in hand, that after the ZRock2 arrives that I’m done upgrading.  That no amount of reading Stereophile on the can will lure me to audition new gear 😂

The journey has had positives, of course. My system sounds amazing.  I do wish I could easily turn off that “dissatisfied voice” inside.  The one that thirsts for another upgrade, another toke on that pipe.  I’d like to turn that voice off like a faucet and set gear infatuation aside and simply enjoy the music.

I have a neighbor who has a $400 Yamaha amp from Costco and a pair of $200 Polk tower speakers. He has heard my system and agrees it sounds incredible. Yet he has zero desire to upgrade his system.  He’s totally satisfied with what he has and is solely focused on the music.  I have one cable that costs more than his entire system!

Don’t get me wrong, I truly enjoy the elevated gear. But there is a certain genius to not needing the elevation in order to truly enjoy music.

The ZRock2 is the last one man, I swear. I’m going to get back on my feet and live clean after that.... you’ll see 😂😎🌈
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Chester
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #132 - 09/11/21 at 19:30:15
 
DancingSea,

Loved that post.  I have definitely felt/feel that mental illness part as I have placed an order for a Zen 25th Anniversary amp and start looking at my wonderful speakers that I love and think maybe, just maybe, upgrading for another $5000 will get me a little closer to…..what, exactly?

On the other hand, we spend time, emotion, and money on things we care about - whether we fully understand them or the reasoning behind it or not. I know that if I start thinking about a second mortgage, then I really need to slow down, I mean stop.  

I don’t think there are any “true” answers just what makes sense for you.
Just really wanted to say your post really resonated with me.  Good luck and I wish you well.
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SE84UFO25/Border Patrol DAC/Zu Omens/Zu Undertone Sub
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Geno
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Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #133 - 09/11/21 at 20:10:53
 
Caintuck Randy refers to that feeling as “Audio Nervosa”.  I think we audio folks have all suffered from it at one time or another. Lord knows, I have!

Great thread! Have enjoyed the posts!
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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HockessinKid
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Posts: 1090
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #134 - 09/11/21 at 20:17:55
 
Well, at least it's not as expensive a hobby as collecting Ferrari's😊. But of course most Ferrari's appreciate in value as opposed to most stereo equipment which does not.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
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Archie
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Posts: 2731
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #135 - 09/11/21 at 21:34:16
 
Most cars don't appreciate either.  It's a matter of finding the Ferrari of stereo gear.   Cool
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #136 - 09/11/21 at 22:35:32
 
I’m less concerned about the money, and more interested in understanding the various ways my mind tricks me.

For most of those 16 “ignorance is bliss” years mentioned above I was fine with music playing in the house that I could hear.  Better yet if I was in the same room as the system.  

I actually rarely listened positioned between the two speakers.  Simply didn’t think about such things.

Now I’m mildly offended to be slightly right or left of the sweet spot 😂

Yes, it sounds better now.  But am I more satisfied listening to music now?  In all honesty, no.   It sounds quite a bit better, but am also quite a bit more kooky.

I’m the same person in both scenarios.  Does “better” always equate to better?

I wonder how whatever it is in my mind that determines satisfaction operates?   It’s quite a mechanism.  I’m guessing there’s some evolutionary reason why that mechanism is so convoluted.  Probably some unconscious survival reason why.  Keeps me on the move from predators 😂
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Archie
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Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #137 - 09/11/21 at 23:09:25
 
It can really get interesting when you accidentally hear fantastic sound from some "out of date" low cost solid state integrated amp!  Sound that maybe Trumps your high dollar tube system.   Tongue  

I've thought about the pursuit of "live" sound and good or bad, live sound completely fills the space -- like the air in the room.  I've come closest with the F15s in a big baffle but it's still not live-scale.  I suspect I forgive a lot of technical imperfections based on this alone.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #138 - 09/12/21 at 00:22:42
 
Dancing Sea.
The ZRock2 is the last one man, I swear. I’m going to get back on my feet and live clean after that.... you’ll see "

I heard there is a12 step program for this addiction, you meet with other brothers and sisters and you start with:
Hi my is Al and I am an audiophile...

;-)

a.
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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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Coyote
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #139 - 09/12/21 at 02:23:09
 

Hi All,

This is actually a very cool discussion and many points have been touched.
Here are some thoughts that came to me while reading.

Maybe a category of audiophiles wants to "get there first" the latest caps most performance etc. these pay a lot and will lose a lot as the "future" technology they are buying today will be readily available in a few years.

Then you have the "I want that sound" and one will (especially in the SS world) lose a lot as the Fad fades away and your system sounds "dated".
When doing a sound engineering diploma years ago one teacher was all about the Big bass setup on the board, I learned nothing from that guy and he went nowhere.

Then the nirvana guy who will never be satisfied, this guy is simply not about listening to music, he is about gear, so I will leave him alone.

Then you have blokes like me (maybe). I do not really care about the gear, well aesthetically maybe, ha.
I want hardware that will deliver what I 'need' and that I can tweak. Something that will just pass the signal from a to b.
Within this category there is of course a million paths.
Mine right now is about simplicity.

A source, for me at this time, this is very much an analog source. Or a non-compressed source. S. Jobb famously said he never listened to iTune or most electronic medias as it was compressed crap.

Amplification, to me it starts with a simple, clear, clean, tube amp.
Tube because to me it reaches a vibe when I am listening and because I can tweak that "vibe". A SS never even brings me to the 'vibe' level.

Baffles, to me open baffles with no Xover. this is my current "evolution I have no clued what the open baffle experience will be I am getting some Betsy Lii15. The biggest gamble in my audio experimentation!
We could start a whole new thread on relations between driver size and baffle size. !!

Cheers,

a.

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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Geno
Seasoned Member
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Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 2000
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #140 - 09/12/21 at 02:29:54
 
Another aspect of this, for me anyway, is that as we get older (I turned 60 last month) our hearing begins to get a little worse (I have a bit of tinnitus in one ear). So there can be some panic due to that in terms of finding the quality we seek. For myself, if I think something will better my setup, I don’t wait. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t, and this can result in a lot of extra money spent. But, if you don’t try, you’ll never know. And it is a race against time.

Sorry. Just the ramblings of an aging audioholic. 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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will
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Posts: 2919
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #141 - 09/12/21 at 02:41:06
 
In my experience, a lot of the audio treadmill is due to not being able to get room to work well with the system and visa versa, so we tend to keep looking for improvements because things sound off. Taken a little further, I think the musical experience is so complex and full of complex balances, that it is just really hard to define better sound, making it harder to find.

Truly better sound to me has all the more apparent things like excellent spectral balance and range, natural speed including good hit that is not overstated and very fine micro speed, excellent space and detail complexity across the spectrum.... not hard and not thick... natural bass hit and extension that is fast, not boomy or muddled... etc

But maybe learning to discern when better is better is the biggest thing. And I think that it can take a lot of practice, but also figuring out what to look for. A baseline for me, does it do all the right things with a context of sounding like real playing of nice instruments in a really good room? But what are the things that make a great musical experience that our body/consciousness can identify when it feels authentic, but we can't necessarily easily analyze?

Seems there are just countless balances that can "sound pretty right" based on ideas, and not really "be" right to the subtle discernment of the subconscious... So how to find it?

To me the biggest "real maker" (assuming all else is balanced itself, and balanced between all the rest) is the finest harmonic information in really good space. If these are incomplete or not there across the spectrum, all else can sound really good, but for me it is the natural harmonic stuff that does the magic part, making it realer feeling and more fully engaging.

But unfortunately, this has not been a big measure for many developers, and a lot of highly rated audiophile stuff just does not do brilliantly with this information.... And being so fragile and easy to kill by truncating it in a digital front end, a lot of it may never be there. Or if the front end can hold onto it, something later might squeeze it together too much due to lesser parts and wires, concentrating complexity into harder sound... or masking it away. In a system, it seems there are literally hundreds of ways to lose it little by little, part by part. And back to the all important system balance with the room.... most rooms accentuate or cancel lots of frequencies to various degrees, and the wrong reflections can be big smearers too...

So really, I think our desire for better sound has a very real basis... especially if we get really close to realistic quality sound... if something feels off, it probably is.

And chasing more gear makes some sense... if it is in fact a real upgrade, but it is clearly not the answer on its own judging from how fast the audio treadmill spins for many.

With the very fine musical information innately the most fragile, and with all the many ways to mess it up, I am afraid most of us rarely hear really good harmonic "real-making" in all its glory. And without a reference that reveals it really well, how do we know what all is missing? I wonder how long it would have taken me to "discover it" had I not gotten my NOS Tranquility DAC and the rest of the front end recommended to show the DAC best. With that DAC ,all the parts were chosen finally by sound, and associated computer (with mods), cables, and even external drives were carefully vetted with blind testing.... So all were carefully developed and chosen with this critical harmonic content high on the "need list."

I was lucky with my Decware being nicely resolving and good at natural harmonic content, then with the help of Eric Hider, one of the Tranquility developers, I got a pretty exceptional front end for the time. And even then, it took me years to then further resolve my system and room and show all the Tranquility could give. The upshot of that, even if some is lost, it might intellectually sound pretty close, and feel pretty close, but when there are subtle qualities of natural music that aren't there, we still crave them, most likely because it does not sound as right to our senses and natural consciousness as our intellect. So for me, fine detail and space are major reads for getting to engaging immersion.

Just looking at micro speed.... the fine stuff requires just so speed to show it, allowing the fine detail and space to differentiate. We can hear the finest detail because of the space "next to it" allows us to hear it. And clearly damaged fine detail and space can happen even if our front end is rare enough to fully show this information to begin with. I have found fine detail can be smeared or masked way too easily.... might be some vibration causing subtle noise, or subtle noise from lesser quality power, or too much voltage pushing the amps/tubes harder and concentrating detail into hardness and making thickness... or power cables and ICs that appear good, but mask it.... maybe just a bit too much darkness or thickness in the balance masking it... and many other things! Ouch!

I also find many tubes are not so good at this subtler information. But most likely, it is a progression of decent stuff slowly degrading these valuable musical elements progressively. Fine detail in good space just can't be heard as well if it is slightly smeared... but the subconscious and our senses recognize a lack of natural harmonics just as well as unnatural balances of all the more obvious things we listen for.

So for me, if there is one, harmonic content is the most critical read. And some aspects of fine detail in space are easiest to read, like the complexity of textures, and having them top to bottom... room spatial sounds throughout the range, helping to differentiate and authenticate the players in space, ..... the quality and duration of decays across the spectrum, perhaps one of the easiest reads letting us know we if we have solved smearing, with good speed, and very fine information in space.

If it is mostly there, and supported by a natural baseline set of all the other balances.... nothing missing, and nothing poking out.... no matter what flavor of sound I am working with, I can more easily find musical engagement. Just think how important complex textures and micro speed are to our musical excitement.... complete and with good smoothness, great textures can add such sweet complexity and reduce hardness.... good micro speed can liven it all up with very fast leading edges along with supporting all the fine detail and space I seek..... And if decays are clear and extended in time, from the bass to the very top... then I can be pretty sure I am getting most of what is there on the recordings. Add just a bit of "real warmth," that sweetens the sound a little without the darkening, slowing, or masking anything much, this seems to get me close... then it might be a little luck to get the very deep beauty, but for me, exceptionally complete harmonic content is a critical read to get me close.

What an amazing trip!





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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #142 - 09/12/21 at 02:44:04
 

Ah Haaaa,

Yesss,

Above 400hz I am losing.
We are looking at the same issues.

For me I am tired of swapping gears in the dark.
I want to create a base line and grow from there UFO set 2 is that, hopefully faster than my hearing declines!
But it is not about the gear, it is about the enjoyment.
I want physical pleasure (Oh dear) out of my listening experience!

I will be 60 in April.
I can't believe it!

Cheers,

a.

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #143 - 09/20/21 at 03:02:06
 
I watched the Amazon Prime documentary called LuLu Rich.  It’s the sordid story of LuLu Roe, the women’s clothing multi level marketing company.  At one point there was a many month’s long waitlist just to sign up as a retailer.  They told stories of how overwhelmingly excited new members were to receive their welcome aboard call, how they waited with eager anticipation, and how that was all by design to build expectations and excitement.

As I’m watching this it dawned on me, “wait a minute, I’m on a long wait list…. And my expectations and excitement is building as well…”

Thus I’d like to know, do Decware products ship with a pair of leggings?   😳
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Abunadh
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Posts: 31
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #144 - 09/20/21 at 04:11:10
 
If they provide leggings then I'm sure they would need to be hand made (like all things at Decware) and cost $2000 to cover labor and materials. And can you imagine the hit to the wait list?
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"I don't like it but I guess I'm learning" (Shock the Monkey - Peter Gabriel)
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Beerfab
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Posts: 51
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #145 - 09/24/21 at 19:12:21
 
WOO HOO.  I made it into the 100's!!!
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Coyote
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Posts: 182
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #146 - 09/24/21 at 23:05:09
 

Beerfab,

Showing off eh?

;-)

a.

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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yostjacob
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Posts: 17
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #147 - 10/08/21 at 00:25:25
 
I wonder if they would consider taking a deposit until the build starts?

Its not the wait itself that is holding me back, its the wait plus payment in full up front when work probably won't start for a year.

I am still noodling on it though.  I really kind of want the nifty items.
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Tony
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #148 - 10/08/21 at 00:39:50
 
Hi yostjacob,

Welcome to the community.

I think what you are suggesting is how they do it.  I cannot remember off the top of my head the percentage used, 10% comes to mind.  So if your order came to $1K, they would charge your card $100 immediately, balance due when the order is complete.

If I am remember this incorrectly, I am sure someone will add specifics.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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DancingSea
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Posts: 477
Re: How many times have you checked the Wait List?
Reply #149 - 10/08/21 at 00:46:10
 
Yes, if you pay by credit card it’s only a 10% deposit.  I’m on the waitlist for a ZRock2 and paid them 10%.

If you use PayPal then it’s the full charge upfront.
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