Forums - Amp Advice?

Blueone302

Seasoned Member

Posts: 136

Amp Advice?
01/30/21 at 17:40:52

Good Afternoon,

I haven't been on the forums in some time. Hope I might get your thoughts. Several years ago I purchased an amp used; a Mk IV. I loved it. But, I felt it was a bit limited in the low register. Being impatient, and after trying it with four different sets of speakers, I moved on. That said I did end up with a pair of HR1's that I love. After a recent year of medical issues, I almost parted with the HR's as well; but a little voice kept telling me to hedge and hold on. We did. And now I find myself in a place to revisit the amp conundrum. It will be a Decware. Why? Because every amp I've heard since is missing something. I want to call It detail. But it's more. Nuances in the music I both heard and then didn't hear. Back to the amp. I can deal with the bass. I'm near enough to take my HR's down the road a few miles for the update. Hope to do so in next few weeks. While I'm waiting, I want to begin to sort out the amp question. My biggest problem as I see it is the room size. It is a large open area concept that is roughly 20X40. 9 ft ceiling traversing east to west with an opening on the back wall behind optimal listening position that leads into breakfast nook and kitchen. Large room is also divided by two symmetrical columns. Ceiling is peaked to right of columns. This is the listening side. Listening area is facing short wall on this side, 15-16 ft from speakers. (Facing short wall on right because of columns.)

I would love to consider a pair of the 25th anniversary SE84UFO'S. On the other hand, since the cost is close, should I look at the Mystery Amp? Or.....

I do hope to speak with both Steve and Bob about this as well.

Meanwhile, I'm open to any and all thoughts/opinions.

J

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Decware ZMA w/ mods, Don Sachs Model 2 line stage, Decware: HR-1’s w/mods, Cambridge Audio CXN (V2), Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport, Ice Age Audio: Cryo Copper Power Cords, Better Cables: Silver Serpent Interconnect Cables, Maple Shade Double Helix V2+ Spkr Wire

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Lon

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Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #1 - 01/30/21 at 17:52:11

My experience with a similar sized room and HR-1s is. . .I don't think an SE84UFO25 will quite do it power-wise. I've used SE84UFO3 Monoblocks and Taboo Mk IV both with the 25th Anniversary mods and the Monoblocks just about do it, the Taboo does it but not a lot of headroom. Both needed a ZROCK2 to really have the frequency balance right. Depending on your listening habits I'd recommend the Taboo Mk IV with the Mods--a fantastic amp to be honest, and a ZROCK2. A Torii Jr. or Torii Mk IV would really be a "worry-free" choice and I bet they will sing with the Mods.

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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1

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CAJames

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"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1661

Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #2 - 01/30/21 at 18:29:37

Quote:

Posted by: Blueone302 Posted on: Today at 17:40:52
Good Afternoon,
...I would love to consider a pair of the 25th anniversary SE84UFO'S. On the other hand, since the cost is close, should I look at the Mystery Amp? Or.....

So I have a pair of UFOs (configured as balanced monoblocks) and 95 dB efficient Omega Super AlNiCo monitors in a much smaller room. I will tell you the sound is fantastic, but I feel like I would want more power and/or a subwoofer and/or ZROCK for a room your size. Realistically I'd probably want more efficient speakers like those from Lii Audio. But regardless, a bridged UFO has about the same power as a Taboo so I guess I'm saying pretty much the same thing as Lon. The good news for you is all the Decware amps sound great so you can't go wrong.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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Archie

Seasoned Member

Posts: 2731

Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #3 - 01/30/21 at 18:29:56

Your room seems huge. Mine is too. I think I have more height/volume though. I used the HR1s with my ZMA for many years including after having both fully Anniversary modified. The HR1s, IMO, have great, deep bass. Maybe not "take the air out of your chest" bass but very good. The problem I had was that I couldn't reliably fill the room with sound. I always felt I wanted a bit more than the ZMA and HR1s could deliver in my space. I solved that with the F15s in large baffles. The F15s are close to 100dB/1W/1m whereas the HR1s are 92.5 dB/1W/1m which is a huge difference. The F15s do NOT have the low bass of the HR1s but they make up for it in other ways.

So if you want to play loud in that size room, I'm not sure you'll get there with the HR1s. Even if loud isn't your goal, I think you'll need one of Steve's higher powered amps.

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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.

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Stefan Seasoned Member Posts: 119	Re: Amp Advice? Reply #4 - 01/30/21 at 19:42:08 Steve also just released a Torii Jr v2 that should be under 3k and has already the 25th anniversary mods, I think he said as long as he hasn't updated the web site all Torii Jr ordered now will be the improved v2.
Back to top	- Stefan --------------------- Rega rp6, Lounge Audio phono pre-amp, Lonely Raven PC, T+A DAC 8 DSD, ZBIT, ZROCK2+25th, SE84UFO25, Torii IV, Denon AVC-1SE, Infinity IRS Beta, Tannoy Cheviot, ERRx, Tiny Radials, Woo WA-3, Sennheiser HD800S IP Logged

Lin Ex Member	Re: Amp Advice? Reply #5 - 01/30/21 at 19:57:56 With the size of your room, listening distance, and speakers, the flea watt/single digit amps are not going to give you anything but background levels. Any of the push pull amplifiers will be a better choice.
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Blueone302

Seasoned Member

Posts: 136

Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #6 - 01/31/21 at 02:35:37

Thanks for all the input. Some I expected; and some gives me some things to think about. I plan on keeping an open mind and will continue to explore your thoughts and mine.

One of the things I'm pondering in terms of room size and sound reproduction is should I consider which amp will offer the most potential for soothing any potential wrinkles we might encounter as we go along via tube rolling? In real world experience, I'm only familiar with the Torii MK IV.

As mentioned, it is an open concept area, and in case you're wondering, wife has listened and tried to help with dual purpose treatments. Furnishings, pillows, wall art, etc. I'm pretty much speculating and making quiet.... very quiet suggestions/comments. Prayers welcome.

Jim

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Decware ZMA w/ mods, Don Sachs Model 2 line stage, Decware: HR-1’s w/mods, Cambridge Audio CXN (V2), Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport, Ice Age Audio: Cryo Copper Power Cords, Better Cables: Silver Serpent Interconnect Cables, Maple Shade Double Helix V2+ Spkr Wire

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CAJames

Seasoned Member

"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1661

Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #7 - 01/31/21 at 16:51:58

Quote:

Posted by: Blueone302 Posted on: Today at 02:35:37

...One of the things I'm pondering in terms of room size and sound reproduction is should I consider which amp will offer the most potential for soothing any potential wrinkles we might encounter as we go along via tube rolling? In real world experience, I'm only familiar with the Torii MK IV...

As a practical matter I think any Decware amp will give you all the tube rolling options anyone could want. With input tubes, power tubes, rectifiers and in some cases voltage regulator tubes the possible combinations increase geometrically. IMO it is only limited by how much time and/or money you want to invest in your tube rolling ~~addiction~~ hobby.

The other thing I'll say is, at least in my experience, tube rolling will tweak the tonal balance of your system but it isn't a "graphic equalizer" that is sufficient for adjusting to e.g. room acoustics. For that I think you would want something like a ZROCK. JMO, YMMV of course.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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Blueone302

Seasoned Member

Posts: 136

Re: Amp Advice?
Reply #8 - 02/09/21 at 21:32:39

If anyone is still checking in on this thread, I did go ahead and order the Mystery Amp. I just couldn't shake it out of my consciousness that this is the amp I've wanted for years. Now.... we wait. I think there's only 380+ in line in front of me. I saw on another forum where Steve gave the averages for amps shipping a week. I don't even want to do the math. That said, I also know I could have ordered a decent amp from a lot of other sources, but would have known I was compromising. So, we suck it up and wait.

Cheers!

Jim

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Decware ZMA w/ mods, Don Sachs Model 2 line stage, Decware: HR-1’s w/mods, Cambridge Audio CXN (V2), Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport, Ice Age Audio: Cryo Copper Power Cords, Better Cables: Silver Serpent Interconnect Cables, Maple Shade Double Helix V2+ Spkr Wire

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