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Mundorf Supreme! (Read 5504 times)
Eldergod
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Mundorf Supreme!
01/13/21 at 21:06:08
 
Steve, just saw the email about the Mundorf Supreme cap upgrades!  Thank you for reaching out to all of us on the wait list.  Not gonna lie, I'm dying to get my SE84UFO2 built (hope to see parts pulled soon!), but also understand the massive strain you all must be under as a business during the Pandemic.  Thanks for the considerate upgrade!  I'm even more excited now, and can continue to wait patiently for my amp.
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Lon
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #1 - 01/13/21 at 21:14:41
 
Definitely a generous (and in my opinon smart) move to do this Steve!

A great move and makes me believe the sound might be better with those caps. I don't need another amplifier. . . and yet was tempted to get in on the build list! That says a lot! Kudos to the Decware team and congrats to all who will be taking advantage of this.
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MTNDAVE
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #2 - 01/13/21 at 22:01:20
 
Thank You Very Much!
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canonken
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #3 - 01/13/21 at 23:02:11
 
This was the more wonderful e-mail to see, thank you!  I am getting closer and closer to my amp being built and hope to have it in February.

I also have a SE84UFO2 on order (stock, no options).

Can someone tell me if this 'free gift' is the $130 Coupling Cap or the $260 'Mod'?  Or something new and different?

If one of those two, tempted to ask for the other mod to be added to my order so I can get all the performance enhancements.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #4 - 01/14/21 at 01:12:07
 
Quote:
I also have a SE84UFO2 on order (stock, no options).

Can someone tell me if this 'free gift' is the $130 Coupling Cap or the $260 'Mod'?  Or something new and different?


Coupling caps.  

If you ordered the beeswax bypass cap mod (the $260 one you referred to) it will be upgraded to the Mundorf as well.
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Dominick
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #5 - 01/14/21 at 04:30:14
 
I just received the email regarding the Mundorf Supreme upgrade and couldn’t be more excited!!  This was truly a pleasant surprise!  I had already added the Anniversary mods, but  ironically enough just added the glass resistor upgrade earlier today prior to getting the email.  Thank you again Steve!!  

Dominick
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mperdue63
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #6 - 01/14/21 at 17:38:10
 
I truly appreciate Decware’s unwavering commitment to providing exceptional value audio gear. The latest Mundorf cap upgrade is a prime example of the on-going march toward audio nirvana. I’m glad I found Decware several years ago as I was re-building my passion for audio after a 20-year hiatus.  But I’m amazed and grateful that Steve is providing the upgrade at no cost to existing orders. The upgrades must amount to thousands of dollars out of the Decware’s cash register and a significant time commitment to upgrade the amps in production. He didn’t have to do it! I’ve very rarely, if ever, experienced this level of customer commitment. A few weeks ago, my ZMA developed an issue that required a trip back to the mothership for repairs. While my ZMA was at Decware, Steve upgraded/replaced my caps, and Installed lighted meters. The new caps now have probably 80 hours on them. I’m not sure, but I suspect the new caps are the Mundorf caps he is upgrading to. They have had a noticeable positive impact on my ZMA. I’m not sure how to explain it but the sound is “deeper” and kind of “pours or flows” out of my speakers. I first thought the improvement was a result of my new Lii 15 ob speakers that I had started using when the ZMA came home.  But the other day I re-hooked up my Omegas and I was surprised by the noticeable improvement in the sound. If my upgraded caps are the Mundorf caps…or not they are impressive. They made a positive difference in an already wonderful amp.  Decware always seems to find a way to go above and beyond and I for one really appreciate it.
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canonken
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #7 - 01/14/21 at 23:08:45
 
Thanks Steve!

Reading your e-mail, does this mean we will have 3 options?  Stock Beeswax, Mundorf (new), and copper foil Beeswax?  Assume the Mundorf option will be prices below the copper foil Beeswax?  Totally understand if this is new and you are working on the details.

"This means Decware amplifiers will continue to come stock with Beeswax caps, and can be upgraded with either copper foil Beeswax or Mundorf Supreme caps."
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Archie
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #8 - 01/14/21 at 23:37:23
 
Which Mundorf caps are the option?  There are several Supremes.
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metropolis7
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #9 - 01/15/21 at 15:40:40
 

So the Mundorfs are an upgrade to the bypass cap option?


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Steve Deckert
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #10 - 01/15/21 at 16:11:12
 
The bypass cap option is part of the Anniversary Mods. It deals with bypassing the electrolytic in the power supply with polypropylene and beeswax caps where applicable. This mod looks at the input stage in particular to determine what signal capacitor is used at the input grid of the tube and then duplicates that capacitor at the plate resistor so that they match.

If for example, you have beeswax caps in the signal path, then you will have a beeswax cap on the plate resistors. If you have Mundorf caps in the signal path, then you will have Mundorf caps on the plate resistors.

In the case of amplifiers and preamps, the output stage is treated the same way.

So to answer your question another way, Mundorf caps are a replacement for beeswax caps, wherever they are used.

Steve

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Steve Deckert
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #11 - 01/15/21 at 17:39:56
 


These are the caps that we are using. While there are several different Mundorf caps, these are the only ones that check all the boxes for our amplifiers. The oil, for example, will not tolerate the internal temperatures of our amplifiers. The Silver Gold alloy with it's 'vibrant timbers' voices nicely in feedback laden amplification but comes off more clinical sounding in the transparent Decware Zen amps in our opinion. Often the original is the best. By the time we get these caps matched up they still cost slightly under the Beeswax but don't let that fool you. If the beeswax caps were made in the same quantities with the same technology and facility they could cost less as well.  





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Archie
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #12 - 01/15/21 at 17:56:27
 
Are these a preferred option to the Jupiter, Type II, copper foil beeswax?
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JBzen
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #13 - 01/16/21 at 11:18:59
 
Looks like Decware is draining the supply of Mundrof Supreme! I had some in my cart at Sonic Craft before Steve's email. The cart is now showing not enough stock to fill the order  🙄
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qaztar
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #14 - 01/16/21 at 14:38:56
 
I have a SE84UFO25 on order that comes/came standard with the (Jupiter) copper-wax caps.

I used to own a couple of SE84CS amps having Vcaps and liked the sound. I know they're expensive and require a very long burn-in period, but I'd been thinking to change my order to Vcaps before the parts are pulled.

Will Vcaps still be an option? How do the Mundorf Supreme's compare to the Jupiter copper-wax's and the Vcaps? By compare, I mean something along the lines of the handy chart found at http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/CAPACITORS.html showing (one opinion on) the Jupiter-copper vs V-CAP copper vs others.

(Perhaps these questions have been answered already elsewhere in the forums.. if so, apologies and please redirect!)

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jones525
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #15 - 01/16/21 at 15:53:50
 
"How do the Mundorf Supreme's compare to the Jupiter copper-wax's and the Vcaps?"

This is a great question! Where does the Mundorf fall compared to the Standard Jupiter Copper foil beeswax and the optional Vcap in the SE84UFO25. Perhaps its more complex than just a simple ranking?
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #16 - 01/16/21 at 17:40:28
 

I have made the determination that the Mundorf is an upgrade over the copper foil beeswax caps.

I have long been infatuated with the sound of the beeswax caps, it's just that the Mundorf is a notch better.  I can match them with way tighter tolerance, the caps handle heat far better, the ESR is ten times lower, the leads are far superior as is the case.  The size fits better and the consistency of manufacturing process is also better.

As for the sound, the Mundorf has a fuller body to the sound and slightly better dynamics.  Imaging focus is also slightly better.  I would say the sound is a touch less organic but the tradeoffs are overwhelming in the Mundorfs favor.

Also, just so everyone with amps on order understands, everything that was here as of the date of my email (because of the email) has been or is being upgraded. That means everything that was already built, everything that was in testing and everything that was in QC that had beeswax caps of either kind was pulled and re-capped. Even those amps in shipping were unpacked, re-capped, and re-tested.

We will continue to offer VCAPS by special request, but they cost 10 times more and do not perform 10 times better, so clearly the point of diminishing returns is with the Mundorf.

Steve
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canonken
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #17 - 01/16/21 at 18:21:26
 
Steve, thanks for the explanation, follow-up e-mail, and of course this free upgrade in general.  Even more excited to get my amp!
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jones525
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #18 - 01/16/21 at 21:39:41
 
Thank you for the detailed response Steve.
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ovs-audio
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #19 - 01/17/21 at 15:04:04
 
I have tried mundorf and miflex in multiple amps, but find the jupiter copper foil beeswax the best. Much more natural and better soundstage than the mundorf.
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Dominick
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #20 - 01/17/21 at 20:02:45
 
Here is a great website that Will sent me which gives a breakdown of the major caps out there and their sonic signature.  While this is the viewpoint from one individual, it seems pretty accurate across the board and a great reference.   I was referencing this prior to the Mundorf upgrade when I was deciding on my Torii MKIV order.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

This next website I came across that I found to be a good read.  One caveat....it’s written by VHAudio so I feel that it’s going to be a bit judgmental in favor of their own product.  Nonetheless a good read..

https://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

Hope this helps.

Dominick


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HockessinKid
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #21 - 01/17/21 at 20:56:51
 
Thanks Dom! Here is another, albeit long, thread on capacitor listening impressions on Audio Circle. Keep in mind it's 47 pages but a very good reference. I've found in helpful from time to time.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0

HK
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ovs-audio
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #22 - 01/17/21 at 21:06:01
 
you have to try it yourself, otherwise you don't know anything !
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HockessinKid
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #23 - 01/17/21 at 21:45:38
 
ovs-audio,

Disagree. We often have to rely on the ears of others and their equipment for insight. Think about it. If Decware relied on everyone hearing their equipment before buying it, Steve and company would only sell a handful of amps. You'd also have to pay out big bucks to roll tubes if you didn't rely on reconnections from others.

Granted different caps in different equipment will not sound the same. However trying out lots of different caps is a bit impractical, even if you have good soldering skills and the knowledge to do it properly.

These guides are not an end all authority, but they are helpful.

HK
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ovs-audio
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #24 - 01/17/21 at 22:28:17
 
Trying out myself is everything in audio, I've been in audio for 40 years and everyone has different ears. All respect for Steve because he makes good amplifiers, but no one has the same cables, speakers or streamers. So I keep trying it myself is the only thing that matters. If someone else thinks about that, fine, but it just doesn't work.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #25 - 01/17/21 at 22:38:59
 
I'm only sort of following this argument but given the practically unlimited options, some culling is required for the 99.99% of us who don't want to give our lives over to testing every possibility for ourselves.  I would have thought this was obvious. But maybe only because I work through "experts"  lot of the time.
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Dominick
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #26 - 01/17/21 at 22:55:36
 
Your welcome Roger!!  I’ll definitely check out the link you supplied.  Thanks.  I couldn’t agree with you more...relying on the the ears of others does give great insight and a point of reference.   We may all hear a little differently, but I trust Steve’s ears as boutique amp builder.  Plus..where else are you going to find an amp with point to point wiring with a lifetime warranty.  

Like you said...these articles are here for guides and by no means an end all authority.  

Happy Listening...and now let’s get back to our regularly scheduled program....Music!!  

Dom
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Eldergod
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #27 - 01/17/21 at 23:46:36
 
Agreed Dom. I trust Steve’s judgment.
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ovs-audio
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #28 - 01/18/21 at 09:39:24
 
All this has nothing to do with trust haha, this has to do with your ears, that's why nobody has the same hi-fi equipment !!!
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #29 - 01/18/21 at 12:42:09
 
...and every piece of hi-fi equipment parts schemes tethers comprises endless variations that hundreds of lifetimes could not witness.
Better to listen, research and mingle to fit all in one lifetime.
This forum has it all!
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Eldergod
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #30 - 01/18/21 at 13:28:39
 
ovs, while I agree I think they are 2 separate but closely intertwined issues.  I trust that Steve continues to produce something that is special utilizing the collective parts/systems he deems appropriate to stay true to his brand and following.  My enjoyment of it and to what degree are certainly separate yet imperative in the end.  As most are purchasing his vision sound unseen, there is indeed some trust involved that his continued evolution is faithful to his intent.  Based on what I have researched myself, I am looking forward to the amp with the Mundorf's.  And honestly, I may never know the sound signature difference without A/Bing them, let alone the long term effects/differences, or maybe even have the 'ears' to discern.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #31 - 01/18/21 at 16:56:17
 
mundorf are great caps. i prefer the jupiter HT over the jupiter copper. duelund cast-pio tinned copper for the win!
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #32 - 01/18/21 at 18:02:16
 
A few years ago I was using a pair of Jantzen caps in a pair of speakers.  Decided to try the Mundorf's.  Pricy and it took a painfully long time to be built and shipped.  After break-in the Mundorf's were very sweet!  No regrets.

The really serious folks spring for the Duelund's.  Unfortunately, my pockets are not that deep.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #33 - 01/20/21 at 04:35:38
 
And also - Steve will be sending hundreds and hundreds of these into the homes of people across the country and globe, and needs to make sure they will not just last, but will not degrade over a few years.  Even if something 'might' sound better, if it will start to degrade after a few years of use, not usable or useful for anything other than a home-built product (vs. something commercially sold as part of a business).  Sounds like these caps will last a long time.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #34 - 02/21/21 at 01:57:44
 
i appreciate what ovs audio is saying.

the net impact of the mundorf supreme vs. jupiter coppers will vary from system/room/ears.

i would imagine the best test is to order the mundorfs from a supply house and solder them in ones' self......then you'll really find out. as a side thought, sending your equipment in for decware to do it would be much more expensive.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #35 - 02/21/21 at 05:50:27
 
As most are purchasing his vision sound unseen, there is indeed some trust involved that his continued evolution is faithful to his intent.  

I couldn't agree more with Eldergod's statement and... that does not mean that I disagree with what others have said.

I have to admit that I was a little disconcerted by the announcement that Steve was going to be using Mundorfs.  There was this sort of involuntary thought that began to cross my mind... Does this mean that my UFO25 is somehow deficient???  After all, my UFO25 was one of the first to be built with the Jupiters.  

That thought was banished by the realization that I love this amp as it is and the TRUST that caused me to purchase one of the first UFO25s in no way has been diminished.  

So when I sent my ZR2 in for repairs I asked for the Mundorfs to be installed in place of the Jupiters. When the repairs had been completed Sarah called to ask how I wanted the ZR2 shipped.  I asked if the Jupiters had been replaced.  She said that she would have to ask Steve and would get back to me.  Devon called and left a voicemail letting me know that Steve felt that because the Jupiters had burned in only the bypass cap needed to be replaced and the ZR2 was shipped.  I was completely satisfied with that because in my dealings with Steve he has earned my TRUST in his judgment.

If you wanted to know if I was disappointed you can read my post.  Would everyone like the end result as much as I did?  That's subjective and varies with individual tastes and circumstances.  All I know is that after Steve told me how my CSP3 would benefit with the A-Mods with Mundorfs I couldn't box it fast enough.  Why? In a word: TRUST.

Does this mean that I'll be boxing up my UFO25 after the CSP3 is returned?  I doubt it.  If my UFO25 wasn't a stellar amp it would not have been able let through the changes that were made upstream and with the changes that I expect the modded CSP3 will make and the way the UFO25 lets all that through, there's now the question of diminishing returns and trade offs that need some discussion. Candidly, I don't want to!
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #36 - 02/22/21 at 02:59:49
 

The Mundorf Supreme caps have been around a long time. I've always liked them. When the original caps I used in the Zen Triode amplifiers became obsolete due to some Green energy regulation, and I could no longer get our WIMA FKP-1's made in the original blue, I started thinking it was probably a good time to think about putting something in the amps that was more expensive. Back then our FKP-1's were blue, and WIMA also made other series that were red and the red ones were terrible for audio application. Now they want to make the good sounding ones red in color - it was too much.

As a replacement for both I was contemplating Rel, MIT, and Mundorf. Before I had really made any decisions one way or the other, I discovered the Jupiter Beeswax capacitor and because they were made here in the USA and had that organic thing going on, like our Silver Reference Interconnects, I decided to go with them and have used them all these many years since.

Our inventory of the Jupiter beeswax caps is expiring and unfortunately the caps being manufactured at present no longer pass our quality standards. I'm sure it's probably temporary, perhaps due to the Covid crisis. This of course made me wish I had gone with the Mundorf, because film and or foil caps that are properly made never fail. They last forever.  It's caps that use wax or oils as part of the dielectric that eventually fail, or fall out of spec.

So as many of you know I made an announcement that we were switching over to Mundorf, a cap who's sound I was well familiar with.  After purchasing all of the US stock I made the big announcement.

When making that announcement and promising that all 340 (at the time) people on our build sheet would get the Mundorf caps, I had completely forgotten that we already had somewhere around 50 components already built and waiting for QC each built with beeswax caps! But since I said what I said -- we removed the beeswax caps from all of those units and replaced them with Mundorfs. An very expensive mistake, nothing more. The reason I'm telling you this is because I don't feel that the sound of the Mundorf is necessarily better than the beeswax so there is no reason for people with beeswax caps to have them removed. And the reason I removed them from 50 components wasn't because the Mundorf were superior, it was because of how I worded my announcement.  And while I expect many of the beeswax to possibly fail 20 years down the road, our lifetime warranty will cover any replacements.

On a funny side note, we now have an understanding that announcements will be reviewed by three people instead of one prior to being emailed to our customers.

This story gets even better, but I'll save part 2 for my next post.

Steve


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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #37 - 02/22/21 at 04:15:14
 
Thanks as always Steve.  I certainly appreciate you needing to balance all of these factors, and unlike a DIY project you have thousands of units around the world and need the reliability, durability, and peace of mind they won't have issues.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #38 - 02/23/21 at 13:25:31
 
Thanks for the update Steve, and certainly interested to hear Part 2.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #39 - 03/12/21 at 21:39:31
 

OK - PART II


Mundorf recently announced they will no longer offer their “Mundorf Supreme” caps due to logistics reasons involving the ongoing Covid19 restrictions in Germany.

This came as bad news to us as we just committed our entire product line to this capacitor. Simply we had to find a replacement that is equally as good as the Mundorf.

We elected to use the MIFLEX copper foil caps as in listening tests that were conducted prior to choosing the Mundorf, the MIFLEX was our second choice.  It only lost out to the Mundorf not because of sound but because of the higher values that we use cost a bit more with MIFLEX and were larger in physical size than was ideal for our amplifier layouts.  

The difference isn’t enough to worry us, we will absorb the price. We feel MIFLEX is the logical choice as the Mundorf replacement.

We don’t expect to have any future surprises from MIFLEX like we got from Mundorf because MIFLEX of Poland has been making their own capacitors in house for around 70 years.  As I understand it, Mundorf does not actually make their own capacitors in house.

Production will be transitioning from Mundorf to Miflex in all Decware tube gear.  That means that many of you who got our mailing about the Mundorf Cap Upgrade will now be getting MIFLEX.

Thank you for your flexibility.

-Steve Deckert / DECWARE

P.S. If it is of concern which caps you have when you get your component, we write it on the name tag stuck the bottom.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #40 - 03/12/21 at 22:48:26
 
Steve,
If our amps are in testing will/can we keep the mundorf supreme caps?
Thanks
Malcolm
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #41 - 03/12/21 at 23:23:04
 
I didn't want to say anything until Steve made the announcement, now that he has I'd like to make a general statement.  I sent my CSP3 in for the A-mods after receiving my ZR2 with a Mundorf bypass cap installed.  I requested that all the caps be changed to Mundorfs in the CSP3.  Steve advised me of the situation and said that the Miflex caps would be installed along with some additional work that he felt was necessary.

Personally, and I must emphasize that this is only my perspective and is not intended as any more than that, I had no issues with what Steve told me whatsoever.  What is important to me is not how something is made to work well but how well it works.  

Over many years I have had the opportunity to listen to and to own more components than I would like to admit to. The Decware components that I now own have exceeded my expectations and when I compare what I now have to some of the very expensive high end components that I have owned or had the opportunity to listen to extensively, I can categorically state that the Decware components punch way above their price point and have embarrassed more than one of the components that I have had experience with.

Can't wait to get the CSP3!  I was supposed to get it today but the Postal service is also contending with the effects of Covid and I'll be getting it Monday  :D!
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #42 - 03/12/21 at 23:31:09
 
Agreed Joman. I’ve been trying to talk myself in to sending my CSP3 in for the mods. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about taking it out of the lineup. But it’ll be sent in very shortly. Please post your impressions when you can.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #43 - 03/12/21 at 23:40:59
 
Geno, I of course don't have a CSP3 with the Miflex mods, but I do have the CSP3 with the Type II Beeswax anniversary mods (and one other mod, a glass resistor bypassing the input section) and a CSP2+ with the Type II Anniversary mods. Both are mesmerizingly good preamps, on a par with my ZTPRE (but different, more flexible and less of a purist design). In the case of the CSP2+ I lived with the preamp for a number of years before sending it in for the Anniversary mods and I can tell you that the transformation of the component from the mods was immediately recognizable and ultimately very satisfying. I wouldn't hesitate to send it in. Decware is very diligent in addressing speedily repairs and modifications and you would probably only face a two weeks and possibly a bit total turnaround. Go for it when you can is my advice!
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #44 - 03/12/21 at 23:45:52
 
Well, an interesting turnaround as we now live in interesting times. Thanks for the explanation and I am sure that the sound these add to the components will be a profound improvement as you have made it an across-the-line change.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #45 - 03/12/21 at 23:53:08
 
Steve,

Sorry to hear about the Mundorf Supreme complication.  I hope the changeout doesn’t cause you too much grief. My Torii MKIV is currently on the bench, so i am looking forward to hearing the sound of the Miflex caps.  We truly appreciate your commitment to quality and detail.  There’s no doubt that the Miflex addition will be stellar.

Dom
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #46 - 03/13/21 at 00:29:38
 
Hey Geno!

I held off sending my CSP3 in for the same reason thinking "after all how much better can it get?".  Then the repaired ZR2 came back and I couldn't get the CSP3 in a box fast enough.

I'll let you know how it all works out.
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Reply #47 - 03/13/21 at 16:33:04
 
Steve

Which MIFLEX copper foil caps will you be using?
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Reply #48 - 03/13/21 at 18:58:12
 
I ordered a full set of Mundorf Supremes (coupling and power supply) for my first board of zkit1 a month ago. Now, worried by this thread, I have ordered another full set for the second zkit1 board, to make sure that if I bridge both amps will be equal.

It may be that the distribution channels have not felt the stop decision yet - at least in Europe. There are no news either in the Mundorf website. May that be an export decision only? Or some values only? (in the Mundorf website they only show values over 1.0uF for the "classic" version - while there are still 0,1uF in EVO Supreme version)

(I have not finished the first build yet)
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #49 - 03/16/21 at 13:47:39
 
I got my ZROCK2 with the new power supply and Miflex cap anniversary mods added and as I know I am facing break-in once again I popped it into my audio-visual system in the living room and dining room area to season for a while before taking it into the main system.

It replaced my very first ZROCK2 which is well-seasoned. That one has the Type 2 Jupiter caps but not the Anniversary mods. Immediate comparison shows this new configuration is less warm currently and has a slight increase in detail in sound stage and a trimmer tonal balance. While sounding VERY GOOD right now. I'll see how long I can resist putting it into the main system, probably two weeks at the max, and I hope I have it in place that long!

I have a feeling the Miflex caps will have a slightly different "feel" to them than the Jupiter Type 2 and that both the fully loaded ZROCK2 will sound magnificent, just slightly different. We'll see.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #50 - 03/16/21 at 21:00:07
 
Geno,

Just got CSP3 back with the A-mods/Miflex Caps.  (All the caps are now Miflex in the CSP3). The difference is HUGE, in every way you that comes to mind.

I'll post more detailed comments once I get 25hours/50hrs respectively.  For now I'll put it this way: I tried to compare the difference pre and post A-mods/Miflex but couldn't.  All I managed to do was close my eyes and just enjoy the music being completely absorbed in what I was hearing and feeling - straight out of the box!

Keep in mind that my comments relate to experiencing the combination of what I have now not just one component. The three components that I'm specifically referring to is:  ZRock2 with A-mods and Mundorf bypass cap, CSP3 A-mod/all Miflex and SE84UFO25 with Type 2 Jupiter Caps.  

This combination is so good that which parts were used where to achieve this end result doesn't matter to me.  What does matter to me is the end result, which has exceeded my expectations, again, and not in any small way.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #51 - 03/16/21 at 22:33:18
 
Congrats! The Anniversary Mods--regardless of cap choice--make a profound difference in the CSP series preamps. Though my CSP3 was born and shipped with the mods (and another modification) the CSP2+ I sent in for the Anniversary mods was really transformed, became a much better preamp and headphone amp. Even before break-in there is much to hear.
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #52 - 03/16/21 at 22:50:25
 
That is awesome, Joman! That may just coax me in to sending mine in.

Congrats and definitely keep us posted on how it sounds going forward.

Best,

Geno
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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #53 - 03/18/21 at 03:05:10
 
Day two updates:

I felt that the tubes that were in the output positions might be tired so I reached for a couple of NOS tubes from my stash to replace them.   Initially I put all the tubes back in that were in the CSP3 prior to the A-mods which were: GZ34 Metal Base, Philips E188CC SQ input and a pair of Siemens E88CC Grey Plate.  That way I could compare post mods to pre mods.

I replaced the Siemens with another NOS matched pair Siemens E88CC in the output positions.  This verified that the previous two needed to be retired.  At this point I will confirm what Lon said about the A25 mods making a fundamental difference.  This CSP3 with the A25 mods is an entirely different CSP3.  I don’t think that I can put it any better than he did: “mesmerizingly good”!

Next I replaced one of my DSR interconnects with a pair that I just received that have the Xhadow ends.  Because it was a .5 meter pair I put it between the ZR2 and the CSP3.  Another significant change.  The Siemens tubes that I had just installed had the typical edge of a new tube.  That one IC cable change took it all off and more.  Yes, the new tubes still have to burn in but the difference that DSR/Xhadow made was immediately evident.

For those who have a CSP3 and are wondering whether you should get the A-25 mods, even though this is only day two with mine, I will strongly recommend that you do.  Then give it the best signal that you can and you’ll see just how good these A-25 components are.  

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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #54 - 03/18/21 at 03:15:33
 

After pairing that preamp with a stock SE84UFO for awhile, I was myself a little surprised at the difference it makes.  It was like dropping a different amplifier in there.  One with more weight and more power and better overall sound by a large margin.

This just illustrates that if you follow the gain, you always get the biggest increase.  For example, the input tubes in an amplifier often make a larger difference to the sound than output tubes because they have around 10 times the gain.

I found myself realizing that if given a choice between pairing a stock UFO with an anniversary preamp vs. pairing an anniversary amp with no preamp, the first one is actually going to win most of the time.

Steve

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Re: Mundorf Supreme!
Reply #55 - 03/20/21 at 00:15:14
 
I'm losing track of time, I think this is day four and I would completely agree with Steve's comments.  With this modded CSP3 in place the system is turning into a music monster! Unreal timing and dynamics, as for the rest... yes it sounds like I just got a more powerful amp.

When I started acquiring Decware products not all the components were available as they are now.  So looking back I would would recommend the following for anyone getting into Decware:

ZRock2 with all options + CSP3 with all the options.  The CSP3 with the Anniversary mods is a very versatile pre and an absolute killer!  So I would spend as much of my budget as possible on upstream components.  Then a base SE84UFO or another Decware amp of your choice, but it doesn't have to be a loaded amp, that can come later.  

If you ever hear something like the SE84UFO25 at the end of that chain it likely will end up being there.


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