Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
06/14/21 at 15:31:14 


       


Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
TORII JR Ver. 2 (Read 2957 times)
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5045
TORII JR Ver. 2
12/22/20 at 23:55:55
 


I've updated the TORII JR for 2021 !

After studying the results of 80 customers who own one up until now -- I found myself wishing the following things were different:

1) The original amplifier was somewhat hard on rectifier tubes if they weren't New Old Stock.
2) The output tubes had to be a matched quad and without meters there was no way to know if they were adequately matched when you purchased them from places other than Decware.
3) The amp was limited to use with EL34 or 6L6G output tubes.
4) The amplifier had to be biased whenever output tubes were changed.
5) The bias can change with variations in the 120V at the wall outlet.

With well matched tubes and properly biased did it sound good?  Yes, it is a high resolution ass kicker!  Can it get better?

Yup.  

I decided to deal with the first item, rectifiers, by reducing the first section from 47uF down to 8uF.  Compared to before, it's like a soft start and is sure to be much kinder to weak rectifier tubes, like the current production models available today.  

Next I eliminated the fixed bias and replaced it with a common cathode resistor for each pair of output tubes. This has the advantage of making it impossible to have the output tubes biased wrong.  It no longer cares much what the wall voltage is, the bias is not going to change every time your AC or electric heat comes on.  It also is no longer limited to two types of output tubes.  As of now, it can run all the same tubes as a TORII MK4.  

So the output tubes that I am using it as I write this are KT66 but the following tubes will also plug right in and work:  EL34, KT77, KT88, 6550, 6L6, 5881, 7027, 807 with adapters.  Since the amp is cathode biased there is very little power difference between the tubes, so the only reason to explore them is for the sound they have.

Now you no longer need matched quads.  Matched pairs are adequate.  In a pinch even if a pair isn't matched, the common cathode will balance the pair to lowest testing one automatically.

The front end has been optimized for the 6N5P which I have found to be generally silkier than 6922's or 7308's.  It is still important to have matched sections in whatever input tube you use with ALL TORII's ever built, including this one.  

Local feedback at the input cathode and output tube cathodes have been removed with bypass caps which was necessary due to the change from fixed to cathode biasing.  This added some gain to the otherwise lower output of the 6N5P so the overall input sensitivity of the amplifier has increased making it easier to drive.

The new amp comes standard with anniversary mods installed.  The signal capacitors have been upgraded from Beeswax Type I and Type II to Mundorf Supremes.

As a result the TORII JRV2 is now a much friendlier amplifier on multiple levels making it ideal for anyone new to tubes.  Just like owning a big Zen amp.

This is a relatively low voltage amplifier with a modest bias current ranging between 40 and 50 mA so it will be kind to your output tubes as well.

SO HOW DOES IT SOUND?

It does not sound like the same amplifier.  The original TORII JR while advertised at 20 watts all tested closer to 30 watts.  The new TORII JRV2 while advertised at 20 watts will just do 20 watts.  This in and of itself will have no effect on the sound per say, just how loud you can crank it compared to the original.  

With the changes to the power supply and bias design, the amplifier's noise floor has dropped from the top end of our acceptable hum spec to the bottom end, almost 8dB making it now possible to recommend for use with 100dB speakers.  

Sonically the signature of the amp has shifted from super fast and neutral to a more rich, robust and juicy presentation with even greater detail than it had before due to the anniversary mods.  The amp comes off as having more weight and being more musical, less clinical.  I think it is exactly the signature that everyone would love to have and of course packaged with the transparency Decware is known for.

PRICING?

Until I get the web page updated, I don't know what the price increase will be.  Everyone who already had a TORII JR on order has been upgraded to a TORII JRV2 at no additional charge.  This will go for new orders as well until the page is finished.

UPGRADES?

Yes, any TORII JR can be changed to a TORII JRV2.  The cost of the upgrade will be $500. No upgrades will be accepted until Spring of 2021.







Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 18184
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #1 - 12/23/20 at 00:26:06
 
Wow, that sounds like a WINNER, especially for those who won't be seeing a future price increase! Way to go!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w all GrooveTracer mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3;;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
  IP Logged
Reptar
Senior Member
***




Posts: 52
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #2 - 12/23/20 at 17:14:05
 
THANKS STEVE!

What an amazing way to start the New Year!!!! I have a Torii Jr on order and am now jumping out of my skin in anticipation of getting my new super improved Torii Jr!!

Once again, Decware has proven it is the BEST!!!!!!! <3 <3

Wishing you and the Decware family a healthy and joyful New Year!

Warm regards,
Steve
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 525
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #3 - 12/26/20 at 12:49:29
 
Steve....so how does the new Jr. V2  sound in comparison to the Torii MKIV with the Anniversary modifications?  It seems like the Jr. modifications bring the two amps a lot closer together than before.

I have my MKIV on order, and plan to call Sarah to add the Anniversary mods.  Just curious on your feedback.

Dom
Back to top
 
 

iMac 7/Google Chromecast Audio, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th, Rega P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, Decware ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
  IP Logged
rockrubber1
Verified Member
**




Posts: 17
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #4 - 12/26/20 at 16:43:57
 
Steve,
I also have a Torii Jr on order. After a conversation with you about the MKIV I had on order, you suggested the Jr was more appropriate for my speakers. This just makes me feel even better about choosing Decware for my first tube amp purchase. Looking forward to it arriving!
Mike
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5045
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #5 - 12/31/20 at 20:24:31
 


Differences in Anniversary Mods for the two amplifiers:


In the shopping cart for the original TORII JR.,  Beeswax Type II caps are a $250 option.

The new TORII JR., is coming stock with Mundorf caps which are a notch above the Type II beeswax, so this option will be refunded to anyone who selected it.

The Beeswax Bypass Cap mod on the original TORII JR., was $400.  On the new TORII JR., the amp already comes with a poly bypass cap mod standard, but there will be an upgraded version of it that replaces four of the caps with the same Mundorfs used in the signal path.  This option will cost $250

So if you selected type II beeswax on your original TORII JR order or Beeswax Bypass Cap mod your invoice will automatically be adjusted to a lower price before your new TORII JR ver 2 ships.

-Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 525
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #6 - 01/02/21 at 09:12:38
 
Thanks Steve for your input.

If you are liking the sound of the Mundorf’s over the Type II beeswax in the Torii Jr. V2....do you think you will move that change over to the Torii MKIV?  I just upgraded my order and added the Anniversary mods to my Torii MKIV and would be interested in the change.  

Dom

Back to top
 
 

iMac 7/Google Chromecast Audio, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th, Rega P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, Decware ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5045
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #7 - 01/03/21 at 04:05:27
 
I suspect I will yes.  If you want your MK4 built with Mundorf it's not a problem.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 525
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #8 - 01/03/21 at 08:22:08
 
That’s great to hear Steve...thank you! I’ll put a call into Sarah and have her make that change.  

Dominick
Back to top
 
 

iMac 7/Google Chromecast Audio, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th, Rega P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, Decware ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 525
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #9 - 01/06/21 at 02:23:28
 
I’ve been thinking and doing a lot of reading about the differences between the Jupiter’s and the Mundorf’s.  I can see how the Jr. V2 with the new mods and the UFO outputs will benefit from the Mundorf’s. His results from this upgrade are exciting!!   

If Steve decides to revisit and retune the MKIV before my build, it will be interesting to see what he comes up with.  At the end of the day...whatever the Zen Master comes up with will be killer!!   If that doesn’t materialize until a later date, then the time tested Jupiter’s that have worked so well for many years with guys who run the MKIV and the ZMA will be awesome!!

Sorry for all the posts...just finally in the home stretch for my build and just getting excited!!  Heck...the Anniversary mods are already added...I think I may just jump in and add the glass resistors as the icing on the cake!

Happy listening!

Dominick
Back to top
 
 

iMac 7/Google Chromecast Audio, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th, Rega P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, Decware ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5045
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #10 - 01/26/21 at 18:00:45
 

Here is the new owner's manual for the TORII JRv2.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/TORIIJRv2.pdf

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Erich
Verified Member
**




Posts: 3
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #11 - 04/19/21 at 01:29:36
 
I don’t know how many v2 upgrades have gone out the door, but here’s my report:

Noise floor: I’m running 99dB speakers. The v2 is clearly quieter in the background. Steve  - thank you kindly for measuring my EL34’s. I did some experimenting and rolled to find the quietest pair combos. Now I really have to put an ear on the speaker to hear anything. Bottom line: the v2 is quieter than my tinnitus, my cable box (by far), my refrigerator in the other room and the 45mph road that’s a block away.

Output power: I *did* roll in a NOS pair of Amperex 6DJ8 input tubes and they are still burning in. Output power is probably truly 20 vs “30” watts as advertised. I ran it half way and it did seem as loud as previous. It certainly did not run me out of the room. Why?

Sound: again, I rolled tubes, so it IS an apples to apples comparison, but it’s Granny Smith vs Fuji vs Golden Delicious.  The high end is still detailed but perhaps more subdued and “controlled” than previously. My speakers, Klipsch Heresy IV did show “harshness” with the Jolida loaner amp I had. I noticed it coming off the o.g. Torii so maybe the improved high end is vs my recent Jolida experience.

Overall - I think the noise floor improvement is worth it. The amp is a much better Chopin at Midnight machine. You still need to keep the tubes matched, so it’s not like you can just go tossing random tube X vs Y and expect it to make full potential. The self biasing is a blessing. My house has dimmers EVERYwhere an I feel like the power just depends on the moment, so the bias circuit is a blessing.

Again - thanks to Steve for taking the time with me.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5045
Re: TORII JR Ver. 2
Reply #12 - 04/20/21 at 04:56:20
 
Thank you for your feedback!

Indeed matched pairs of output tubes are important if you don't want any hum, but now it is possible get by with two matched pairs vs. a tightly matched quad.  That right there makes it twice as easy to live with.  The sound is more relaxed, but only slightly.  Start exploring different output tubes and the signature changes are like having different amps.

Keep us posted and thanks for your post!

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print