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Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv? (Read 402 times)
Lance Lloyd
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Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
10/24/20 at 15:16:30
 
Hello! I have an opportunity to get a pre owned Zen Torii Mkiii. Can I send it
to Decware for a complete upgrade? Or, should I just buy it new? Itís significantly cheaper than a new Mkiv. Thanks in advance for any help with this!
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will
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Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #1 - 10/24/20 at 23:18:46
 
Hello Lance.

There are several things I can think of to look at in this comparison.

First, consider if you want to transfer the MKIII warranty. If so, then it needs to be sent to Decware and they check it out carefully with all new tubes. So this carries additional costs, but you then get the life-time warranty.

Then of course upgrade modifications costs as well.

Looking at fundamental differences between the MKIII and MKIV, I am guessing there are some MKIII upgrades that may or may not be as much of a priority as others ...like the whole set of electrolytic power supply caps. Where others might be more obviously worth considering, like Jupiter signal caps over Wimas. But these are things you would have to discuss with Steve. See what he thinks would be possible and most relevant. Replacing the Type I Jupiter coupling caps in my MKIV, I moved them into my MKIII and really like how they sound in the MKIII....a nice synergy. I have not tried the more costly Type II Jupiters in the MKIII, but thought the Type I's we're really good.

A subtler but meaningful addition to the MKIV (to me) is the reconstructive feedback circuit, probably worth asking Steve about. I always leave mine on, so if I were getting my MKIII upgraded including it (in my systems anyway), I would not care if the circuit were always "on" and without a switch like the MKIV has. But I think I recall that it can potentially create issues with some speakers??? Another potential upgrade to ask Steve for his opinions on.

Also, I would strongly consider the 25th modifications on either amp. I have not heard Steve's mods, but have done similar modifications and more, including bypassing the power supply. To me power supply bypasses were pretty profound. Using more transparent resistors was also quite notable for me. The 25th mods include a choice to upgrade the signal resistors to glass, something I would definitely check out with either amp also.

Another thing to consider with the MKIII you are looking at....the earlier MKIIIs had no bass adjustment pot (something I thought was a worthy tool), where the later ones had both treble and bass pots. If I were not into direct EQ on the music files, I would want a bass adjustment just in case your speaker/Torii blend and room would benefit from bass tuning. The MKIV does bass adjustment differently. So if the MKIII does not have a bass pot, I might talk with Steve about options there as well.

The MKIII and MKIV are definitely "family," and to me the MKIII is a really nice amp. Upgraded and adding 25th modifications, if economical, I think it could be really good.

Hope this helps some in your deliberations.

Will
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Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
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Lance Lloyd
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Posts: 8
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #2 - 10/25/20 at 04:50:49
 
Hello Will!  Thank you so much!  This is all incredibly helpful, and is exactly what I was hoping for! Iím going to go through all of this tonight and tomorrow before contacting Steve, then making my decision.  Iíll post the results here as things develop. I really appreciate your time and insight.       -Lance
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Archie
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Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #3 - 10/25/20 at 05:19:19
 
Lance, Will is definitely an expert on the Torii Mk III and IV but I just wanted to say that without a side-by-side comparison, the differences might be subtle and that a stock MkIII will likely be 100% satisfactory.  The fact that it is upgradable down the road is just icing on the cake.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Lance Lloyd
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Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #4 - 10/25/20 at 06:09:01
 
Thank you as well Archie! Thatís also what Iíd hoped. If I get the MKIII, Iím not sure if I have to send it to Decware for the inspection and warranty transfer right out of the gate. If I end up doing that, Iíll probably take advantage of some possible modifications or upgrades at that time. Itíll already be there haha. Just knowing that thereís support and possibilities is huge, regardless. 👍🏽
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #5 - 10/25/20 at 17:24:59
 
You can't go wrong with either version. I had a MK III and it was lovely. I ran EL34's in it. Then I secured a MKIV that I had for several years. With KT66 tubes it had a gentle gain characteristic. When yo turned up the volume it clipped gently, much like the ZEN 84s do.

Forget about the warranty. Just send it in to DECWARE and get is souped-up as much as you can to match a IV with anniversary modifications.
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MINI TORII ANNIVERSARY MODIFIED; ZROCK2; MONOLITH SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580s
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Archie
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Posts: 2046
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #6 - 10/25/20 at 17:42:22
 
I've thought about this issue if I ever bought used Decware and I figure that if it ever needed service than that would be the time to re-up the warranty. † Wink
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Rivieraranch
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Posts: 1828
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #7 - 10/25/20 at 20:45:01
 
Warranty schwarranty. You don't need it. If the unit takes a dump the repair cost would be very reasonable. Spend the $$ on updates and modifications.
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MINI TORII ANNIVERSARY MODIFIED; ZROCK2; MONOLITH SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580s
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will
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Posts: 2259
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #8 - 10/27/20 at 00:53:25
 
Quote:
Hello Will!  Thank you so much!  This is all incredibly helpful, and is exactly what I was hoping for!


You are welcome Lance, and good luck in your considerations!

Will
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Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
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Lance Lloyd
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Posts: 8
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #9 - 10/28/20 at 20:05:32
 
Thanks to everyone for all the advice, knowledge, and help!  The current owner of the MKIII I was interested in had second thoughts about selling it. His financial situation had an upswing and he said he was now ďloathe to sell itĒ haha. Understandable. Iíve noticed that thereís a classified section in these forums, so Iím going to keep an eye out, and maybe put up an ďamp wantedĒ post.
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Rivieraranch
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Posts: 1828
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #10 - 10/29/20 at 16:19:33
 
Don't worry, they are out there. You can snag one in time.

Lance Lloyd has a nice ring to it; like a '30's private eye.
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MINI TORII ANNIVERSARY MODIFIED; ZROCK2; MONOLITH SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580s
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Lance Lloyd
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Posts: 8
Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #11 - 11/14/20 at 00:42:05
 
Hello all! So, just checking in with an update. I feel a little weird after starting this thread about the MKIII and MKIV, but I ended up buying a year old Torii Jr that just got the beeswax bypass mod and upgrades last month. I set it up last night and have been listening to it off and on all day. I love it! Iíve only used one complement of tubes so far, and probably will for awhile, just to get the feel for it. This doesnít preclude me ultimately getting a MKIV, or maybe someday, a ZMA, but for right now, Iím thrilled, floored, very happy. Thanks again for everything.
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will
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Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Reply #12 - 11/14/20 at 01:08:32
 
Great news Lance!
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Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
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