Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/29/24 at 15:23:45 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Why does most high end audio sound the same? (Read 2992 times)
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6234
Why does most high end audio sound the same?
07/16/20 at 02:59:12
 

Which is to say, why does most high end audio electronics sound more similar than different?

Indoctrination...perhaps?  Thinking you know it all... perhaps?   Indoctrination opens your mind and expands it into a box with clear boundaries that cause you to think you know it all thus closing your mind to new possibilities.

Education is a powerful placebo when viewed from this perspective because virtually no degreed professional who practices his profession thinks that any of the data he has accumulated could possibly be misleading since virtually all of his peers say it is absolute.

Audio especially is riddled with false perceptions. Perceptions of harmonics and harmonic distortion, modulated distortion, and so many measurements cause engineers to design in a certain very limiting and repetitious way.

Remember when cars used to all look different? Then computers began being used to model body shapes and now all cars look basically the same by comparison. Spice programs on computers are now used to model electronic circuits, i.e. amplifiers, and it makes it possible to build and test a design virtually without actually ever physically building or hearing it.  

My mentor in electronics had his own electronics geniuses he semi-worshiped until he purchased a book on 50 different great amplifier designs from his top guru and started building them. Lots of problems. The one that broke the camels back was the authors flagship model and it did not work correctly. Even after weeks of fighting it, a total re-design was needed. A phone call to the author revealed that the author had never actually built any of the amps in his book.

So based on the measurements that are accepted by academia as the accepted standard, anyone who applies his or her education properly will design and build amplifiers that work perfect, have ultra low distortion, high damping, lots of power, good efficiency, protection circuits if they are for retail, and so on.  

If you watched the Steve Guttenburg interview of myself on YouTube last week, one of the things we talked about was design methodology and the fact that I design by ear and then measure when it's too late to make any changes...  He made the comment that he has actually had engineers that bragged about not listening to their amplifier designs until after they are completed, and we both chuckled, as I have had the same thing more than once said to me.

So when you go through the comments on one of these kinds of interviews, you always get the people who think their short negative statement is going to debunk and entire 20 minute video...

I saw this actual comment in there tonight, which is what of course motivated this forum post. Take a look at what this self-titled "Boutique Amplifier Designer" said:

Quote:
Theres a reason NO ENGINEER listens to either the amplifiers or speakers they design: Personal biases. Theres also no need whatsoever to "listen" to a speaker or amplifier. They're proud of that because it shows they're doing their job and using objective design methodologies as they should. All the details of what it actually sounds like can be found via test instruments and standardized testing. With the proper data, I can tell right away what a speaker will sound like, or how good an amp is. Don't need to hear it, the data and figures of merit will tell the whole story right there, sound unheard.


(you can't make this stuff up)

This isn't a post bashing engineers or education, only the potential side effects. The proof is that a guy like me who is self-educated by 100% experimentation in the lab over 25 years, and this was long before internet or youtube, can build better sounding amplification than many well respected audio companies shows that there really can be no other explanation. I mean seriously, I 'm not smart enough to design an amplifier with a calculator yet look what I've been able to do.  You can't argue with good evidence.




Here is a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUvR4SPzc4k

Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #1 - 07/16/20 at 03:24:51
 
Great post. Since the distant past, I've learned well to reject much of high brow academia and its crippling weapon: groupthink. It's a disgusting culture that awards the lowest common denominator
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Brian
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 897
Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #2 - 07/16/20 at 05:24:39
 

"A phone call to the author revealed that the author had never actually built any of the amps in his book."

Good grief!  I sometimes despair.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6234
Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #3 - 07/16/20 at 06:11:25
 
I know right?

We were both stunned, and it made us realize that if in the math world of computer modeling it measures great you are vindicated.  No worries if the actual amplifier that is built with physical matter doesn't work...

Laziness.  What took me 4 years of trial and error to do can be done in Spice in less than 2 days.  Problem is, it lies.

Thankfully most good engineers do actually listen  to their work as they go and balance measurement with subjective preference.  These are the ones that preserve the art of good sound and fortunately dominate the hi-end audio industry as far as I can see it.  In fact that may be just what created the divide between pro-audio, consumer audio and hi-fi.

Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #4 - 07/16/20 at 06:36:29
 
Steve, can you comment further on the divide in the 3 audio forms you mentioned? That should be very interesting.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
roadglide
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #5 - 07/17/20 at 01:35:29
 
Great post !!!
Amazing how powerful beliefs are...
My beliefs about audio kept me from owning a Decware 2.3 watt amp for a while.  Always thought that it couldn’t possibly be enough power for enjoyable listening, and how good could it ever sound ???
 How good is was to be proven wrong ...

Thanks Steve ... Smiley
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Why does most high end audio sound the same?
Reply #6 - 07/17/20 at 02:32:21
 
Indeed......arrogant groupthink and strangulation-control, the manifest destiny of academia, is the bane of society.

Steve is proof positive that the establishment has been put on notice; individual ingenuity and the seeking of truth beats staid, collectivist rape via the radical ends.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print