Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/28/24 at 11:27:15 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
tube dampers - stupid or smart? (Read 7711 times)
piezoman
Ex Member



tube dampers - stupid or smart?
07/15/20 at 05:57:05
 
Hello all,

I've read opinions that are all over the board on these.

I've not used them before.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Brad
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
GroovySauce
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #1 - 07/15/20 at 13:07:26
 
My experience is you need to try for yourself.

You might love them on a RCA 12au7 and dislike them on a Siemens ECC82 (12au7).

I've never tried them on power or rectifier tubes.

Back to top
 
 

Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Add-Powr Sorcer x4 | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15|AF Treatment
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1588
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #2 - 07/15/20 at 16:05:26
 
A lot of smart people think they are a good idea, but in my experience I've never really noticed a difference.

The bottom line is it is probably something you ought to try for yourself if you're curious. But there is also a downside to keep in mind, that tubes are designed to dissipate the heat they generate and anything you put on them has got to interfere with that to some extent.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2731
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #3 - 07/15/20 at 16:24:12
 
I use this type.  They dissipate heat, damp the tube and can be grounded -- as I do for my lead ZP3 tube.

Back to top
 
 

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #4 - 07/15/20 at 16:59:27
 
I use Herbie's Audio Lab dampers, the Halo. I used to use them on most every tubes, now I find them most effective on signal tubes and only use them there. They do ot interfere with heat dissipation.

I find I get better "focus" and a tighter, lower bass response. . . to a subtle extent, not huge.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 6234
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #5 - 07/15/20 at 17:16:48
 

Tube dampers will become more and more important as the gain of the tube increases. Example, a 12AX7 having 3 times the gain of a 12AU7 would benefit a lot more from having a damper. The most common place for tube dampers is in phono-stages and microphone preamps where the circuit has 40~60 dB of gain.  In such a circuit a tubes microphonics can become so pronounced that you can hear your own voice come out of the speaker when you shout at the tube. The same tube that gave you this unsettling experience could have virtually no detectable microphonics in a line level preamp, something that would typically have no gain to just a small amount of gain say up to 10dB.

Steve



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #6 - 07/16/20 at 04:20:00
 
Steve, do you think the gain of the input tube position in a Taboo MK 4 justifies the use of a damper?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
armstdav
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 177
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #7 - 07/16/20 at 04:56:22
 
Steve nails it. My experience is that dampers are beneficial on high gain tubes and lower gain tubes that are slightly microphonic. Highly microphonic tubes won't be made usable with a damper; you'll still hear artifacts.

That said, I've tried higher dollar dampers like Herbie's and I couldn't tell the difference from the silicone O-rings I got from Grainger.

My suggestion is start with no damping. If you hear what sounds like ringing, buy a few O-rings. If that cures the ringing, you're done. If it makes no improvement, find better tubes. If it makes some improvement, you might try higher tech dampers, but be very careful.

Experimentation is all part of the fun.

David
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
GroovySauce
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #8 - 07/16/20 at 12:48:45
 
Yesterday morning before seeing this post I was already looking at getting a second Way Excellent Mat from Herbie, a thicker one for quick SRA adjustment. I ended up adding 8 tube dampers too   Cheesy

Piezoman, I'll be trying on the input tube of the UFO25th so I'll report back my findings.

Back to top
 
 

Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Add-Powr Sorcer x4 | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15|AF Treatment
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #9 - 07/16/20 at 14:00:31
 
Thanks Groove, looking forward to hearing about your experience.

Brad
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
GroovySauce
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #10 - 07/23/20 at 17:22:55
 
I bought a few of Herbies tube dampeners. They arrived last Thursday.

UFO25th I used the Hal-o III on the 6P15P-eb’s and an Ultrasonic Rx on the 6922

ZStage, Ultrasonic Rx on the Northern Electric 12au7 (it’s a bit taller than a standard 12au7)

ZP3. Ultrasonic Rx on the first two tubes, and 0A3, HAL-O III on the rectifier.

The difference was not subtle!

The density, body and low end just exploded!

First thing I did was Turn the Zrock2 down a little, Also adjusted the gain riding turned the Zstage down and turned up the UFO25th.

The high’s truly started to shimmer.

The sound stage goes even further past the speakers.

Didn’t know that the background get much quieter.

That is what I noticed almost instantly.

I fine tuned the Zrock2 and gain riding and really enjoyed listening for the afternoon.

Evening came and we cranked up the system while cooking dinner. Well again was shocked. The highs did start to breakup and distort before seeing the meters start to dance. With the tube dampers on the sound was crystal clear and pure with the amp near clipping.

After a few days with them in, I’m a convert. After the major cannot miss it changes I’ve found there is so much micro detail, soft and subtle things I’m picking up now.

I see how some people wouldn’t like what they do.

I’m eating my words. My past experience was they added a subtle change to the sound. Now I’m going to try them on and off on every component, and every time I change tubes.

I already ordered more of them so I have one for every tube I have in the system.

TL;DR Major changes, top to bottom I like everything they do. I’m buying more.
Back to top
 
 

Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Add-Powr Sorcer x4 | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15|AF Treatment
  IP Logged
morp
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 125
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #11 - 07/23/20 at 22:42:55
 
Wow! Reading this chain makes me want to go get some tube dampeners immediately, and I didn't know they existed 10 minutes ago Smiley
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
GroovySauce
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #12 - 07/23/20 at 23:51:08
 
Morp, one of the problems with frequenting the forums is your pockets can get emptied quickly XD.

Herbies offers a 60 return policy if you don't hear a difference. So the risk is very low.

When listening to digital source I took the Ultrasonic Rx from the ZP3 and put it on the Zrock2. Making sure it wasn't touching the chassis. Subtle, it did make a difference.

I also tried carefully slipping off the dampers from the 6922 and the two 12au7s (ZR2 & Zstage) without turning anything off. It's an instantly noticeable change. The HAL-Os on the SV83's I wouldn't even think of hot swapping. Seems the smaller (9pin) output tubes respond well to the dampers. Some day I'll get a quad of the HAL-Os and try them on big output tubes.

One thing to note is, all tubes except the VR are new production. NOS might respond differently.
Back to top
 
 

Maximus NEO TT|ViV Rigid Float TA | Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML | Sutherland Little Loco MK2 | Innuos ZENith MK3 | LampizatOr GA TRP | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Add-Powr Sorcer x4 | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ |Torus AVR15|AF Treatment
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #13 - 07/24/20 at 15:28:34
 
Groove, that was all very informative. Thank you!

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
morp
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 125
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #14 - 07/25/20 at 04:20:25
 
Incredible insight Groovy! I'll need to give them a shot.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Showme
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 302
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #15 - 07/25/20 at 16:55:54
 
Groovy, very compelling, in fact so much so I went for your setup on my ZP3. Herbie should be paying you a commission.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
MrDerrick
Seasoned Member
****


May The Source Be
With You!

Posts: 180
Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #16 - 07/25/20 at 19:42:07
 
I can also vouch for Herbies dampers, I've used them for a very long time.

I have the RX on most of my tubes.

When the III's first came out I ordered a full set for my M60 OTLs.

They imparted a metallic sheen to the sound and I returned them for the RX.

Herbie is very reasonable with returns.

I will have to re-visit the IIIs with my SE84UFO25 rectifier tube and SV83s.
Back to top
 
 

1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM Qobuz or SSD
HQPE - sonicTransporter i9
HQP Client - i3 Tablet
HQP NAA - Sonore Sig Series Rendu
USB > Holo KTE May > SA1X/47 > ZBIT > ZSTAGE25 > SE84UFO25
Avantgarde Duo Omega & Townshend Super Tweeters
IsoMax > Rives Parc > SUB225s
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: tube dampers - stupid or smart?
Reply #17 - 07/27/20 at 02:46:53
 
Very interesting Derrick, thank you!


I'm all ears on your take on the III's and SEAUFO when you have the time.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print