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Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more. (Read 3611 times)
AlexR
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Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
06/21/20 at 02:13:44
 
About 4 months ago I ordered a random pair of 6P15Ps from Amazon for no particular reason other than they were cheap enough to take a chance on. After 2 months, they hadn't been delivered so Amazon sent me a message asking if I wanted to cancel my order, which I did. Then yesterday they showed up at my house, even though I'd received a refund. Anyway, I've been listening to them all day, and they are by far the best sounding 6P15Ps I've heard in my Zen.

I'm used to the common Russian 6P15P-EV with the diamond symbol that are so ubiquitous, but these don't have any symbols, just "6P15P" with "84110" beneath (actually, the "0" is a circle with a line through it"). They came in bubble-wrap sleeves but no tube box. I know they're Russian and came from a seller called Miura Electro-Commodity in Japan. Unfortunately, they are no longer available on Amazon, and the seller doesn't seem to have their own site.

I'd love to buy more of these and have checked all the usual online tube sellers as well as ebay, but can't find any others that match. Has anyone come across these particular 6P15Ps before or know where I can buy some more? They are incredible.

These tubes give my little Zen the excitement and presence of my Torii Jr, while retaining all the attributes that make the Zen great but are diminished in the Torii Jr (dimensionality, depth, realness of tone, etc.). And holy moly the frequency response -- they go high and they go low! I can't go back to the diamond 6P15Ps again!

Here's a pic:



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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #1 - 06/21/20 at 03:20:25
 
There are ones on ebay that look quite similar, for example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4-x-6P15P-EL83-SV83-PENTODE-TUBES-LOT-OF-4-TUBES-NO...

The very best of this tube type I've ever heard come from Steve, thoroughly tested and matched. But they don't look like these.
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AlexR
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #2 - 06/21/20 at 03:23:45
 
Thanks, Lon. I saw those on my hunt. They are the closest I've found so might give them a shot. With all due respect to Steve, these better any 6P15P I've ordered from Decware, which has always been my preferred source as well.
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AlexR
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #3 - 06/21/20 at 05:06:00
 
Wow -- these tubes have completely changed the expectation for what my system is capable of. I'm hearing a level of sound quality that makes me think a SE84UFO/2/3 and a pair of single-driver Omegas deserves to be remembered as the classic '20s system, like McIntosh and JBL in the '60s (or so I've read). All-american and hand made, timeless styling, and killer sonics all for a relatively reasonable price considering Audiophile gear.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #4 - 07/03/20 at 17:18:44
 
I just ordered my UFOs a couple days ago and am just starting to learn about the 6P15, but I do know something about Russian tubes and I believe what you're calling "a circle with a line through it" is the symbol for the Orel City (ORZJeP in Russian) tube factory. That is different than Reflector or Voskhod (the rocket) that makes the other 6P15 tubes I've seen. Maybe that will help you get what you're looking for, but of course even tubes from the same factory can sound very different depending on when they were made.

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AlexR
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #5 - 07/03/20 at 21:25:24
 
Very helpful! Thanks!
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #6 - 07/03/20 at 22:12:00
 
You're very welcome. Since I saw your post I've been looking around myself and see an ebay listing for a 50 pack of ORZJeP 6P15s, apparently from August 1976. Older is almost always better and yours look like Nov. 84. A lifetime supply at 2 bucks a tube!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50x-6P15P-EL83-SV83-Pentode-Tube-ORZJeP-Russian-Soviet-...
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #7 - 07/03/20 at 22:47:27
 
That's a great deal. If I had heard these tubes before I'd probably spring for one of the boxes and wait the long wait for a package from the Ukraine. But I haven't heard this particular "type" of the 6P15, and I have a pair on the way to me from Russia for a long time now to try out first. The best tubes I have used so far of the various versions are those that come from Steve, they're head and shoulders above others for me in my 25th Anniversary Monoblocks and my Taboo Mk IV with the mods--in fact I just got in another pair from Decware today in the mail to put in the Monoblocks. The original pair has held up for a long time, but I think I'll find when these new ones are broken in that the sound will be improved. (I'm already deliriously happy!) This is certainly a cheaper option, but nothing so far beats Steve's selecting, testing and matching in my amps. For me there's a lot of peace of mind in knowing the tubes are from Steve.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #8 - 07/04/20 at 02:44:03
 
I hear you Lon. My amps are presumably months away but I'm starting to collect some alternative tubes now because they are coming from Russia or Ukraine and will likely take months to get here. But a hundred bucks is a lot to spend on tubes you haven't heard and 50 is a lot even if you need them 4 at a time, esp. if they suck...

For sure I'm going to order a few ORZJeP 6P15s and if they are awesome (and these are still avaiable) maybe there would be some interest in getting a 50 pack and splitting it. The thing I'm really like about these is the 70's date code. Mostly I see these tubes from the 80's, and older is usually better.

FWIW the date code is the second line on the label, month and year.


 
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #9 - 07/04/20 at 02:55:50
 
Yes, 50 might last me 20 years or so. Wink I have about 20 on hand right now of various types, SV83, Reflector 6P15P-EV, etc. But Steve's always win out and I use them in my main system. But I don't have any quite like these. I'll enjoy comparing the ones I have on the way that are like this (an order of 4 and an order of 2).
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #10 - 07/18/20 at 14:48:52
 
HOLD THE PRESSES.

I blew this image up and the closest tube that this resembles that I have seen is the Svetlana SV83. Same structure at the top as far as I can tell, especially the flying saucer getter. Interesting if this is true that you found this tube to be so . . . superior. With some tube sets, and before I had amps with the 25th Anniversary mods, this was probably my favorite output tube for the Zen and Taboo amps.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #11 - 07/18/20 at 22:51:04
 
These are non military tubes. If they sound  great go with them. Thet won’t have the long life that the EV versions have.
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #12 - 07/18/20 at 23:08:11
 
I've gotten nearly as long a life out of Svetlana SV83* as I have tubes from Steve. So there's no harm in using those, especially as in most cases they're cheap, certainly a lot cheaper than US or European tubes.

*I should say SV83 that I have gotten elsewhere as in the beginning I had some from Decware.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #13 - 07/20/20 at 02:35:17
 
IIRC Svetlana tubes were made in the Reflector factory, but I could be wrong. The tubes in the OP are clearly made in ORZJeP factory and are just plain 6p15p,  not 6p15p-eb.

Although I guess it is possible Svetlana got a hold of ORZJeP tubes and rebranded them. Either way what matters is how they sound, right?

I've ordered some along with -eb and -er types, but they are a long way away, as are my amps.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #14 - 07/20/20 at 03:40:05
 
The SV83 that I have that resemble this tube don't have a factory mark, so I would not assume they are Reflektor. Anyway, they're great tubes. Hope you get yours and they are what you want. I have a quad on order as well but don't expect to see them for a while.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #15 - 07/20/20 at 04:19:10
 
It's amazing what you can find with google. I found this in the SE84C manual, so 12+ years ago.


...This amp ships with the milspec version of the SV83
output tubes.
This ultra high quality tube features a 5000 hour rating, and is known only by its REAL Russian numbers
of:
à 6P15P-EV or 6n15n-EB
If there is no extension of -EV or -EB it is not high
grade version and likely a standard SV83.
The number SV83 came from an American marketing
company who purchased a large stock of the nonmilitary grade of these tubes and then made up the
trademark of Svetlana and the “S” logo visible in the
picture above.


So it appears Svetlana SV83s are indeed "plain" 6p15p's. And I guess it is safe to say they do sound different than the milspec versions, whether better or not is up to you.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #16 - 07/20/20 at 10:39:35
 
Yes, that is not news to me. My first amp from Decware, in '98 or late '97, not sure which, was actually before Rev. A, and came from the factory with Sovtek EL84. After a bit Steve revised the amp to use SV83, Rev. A and I sent my amp back in to be upgraded, and that was my taste of the SV83. I continued to use SV83 for a long time even after Steve moved to the military version--they do sound different, and I was used to the sound of the SV83.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #17 - 07/20/20 at 15:41:08
 
Very interesting, thanks Lon.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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AlexR
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #18 - 07/25/20 at 20:34:24
 
Just catching up with this thread. Thanks, all, for the great info. Very educational and interesting. I guess it's been a while since I've ordered some 6P15Ps from Decware. I should probably order some and do a comparison. I just got my Torii Jr back from the mothership so the Zen is taking a little vacation at the moment. Some fresh tubes from Decware would be a fun way to break her out again.
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #19 - 07/30/20 at 01:32:14
 
Hey Alex, just curious what input and rectifier tubes you were using when you were getting such great sound from the ORZJeP 6P15Ps?
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #20 - 08/16/20 at 06:23:49
 
I posted this in another thread, but wanted to add it here for completeness. I ordered a bunch of tubes from the Motherland and they arrived a couple days ago.  I got 3 kinds of 6P15P, the -EB, the -ER and the plain ORZJeP 6P15P, and I just finished testing all of them. And they tested all over the map. The 6P15P-EB that Decware sells had the tightest tolerance, but it was still at least 25%. And the ORZJeP were the worst. By worst I mean in the context of tube, I'll call it quality control, where you'd like to see all the tubes of the same type from the same factory test within something like 10% of each other, or even tighter for special quality, eg milspec, tubes. Doesn't necessarily say anything about how they sound.

I think the moral of this story is when you buy random tubes off the internet (esp. the ORZJeP) they are likely working in a different range then the Decware approved tubes. Which could be better or worse sounding in practice. I recall a post by Steve where he said essentially the same thing about test values being all over the place (he uses a more sophisticated tester than I do and can set the parameters to exactly what he wants) and some of them sounded better than the approved tubes. I forget the reason he gave for not using those tubes, it may have been they wouldn't last as long. He said he throws out a lot of tubes.

Someday I'll get my amps, and am interested in where the factory supplied tubes test relative to all the tubes that I bought. More later as the story develops.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #21 - 08/16/20 at 12:57:46
 
I received a quad of what looks like the tubes you posted above but without the factory symbol, and what looks like Svetlana SV83 without the Svetlana branding. Certainly different than the EV type that Steve uses. I thought this quad was lost in shipment, but it finally arrived.

I straightened pins and put a pair in the Taboo MK IV, where I was using a pair of SV83. Right off the bat they sounded quite good, and sounded a lot like the Svetlana. Sure were affordable! They read about 35 on the Taboo meters, which puts them in the quite usable range.

I prefer this SV83 sound in the Taboo system and room, and the EV from Steve in the main system, which is a different listening setup. It's great to have choices!
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #22 - 08/16/20 at 16:49:35
 
For sure. For me that is a big part of the appeal of the UFO amps. I mean there are options for 300B tubes too, but pairs cost as much as an amp.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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canonken
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #23 - 11/03/20 at 00:10:28
 
Is it 'smart' to buy a bunch of assorted tubes from Russia, Ukraine and use them without testing?  As in, they might be defective, not matched, or have other issues?

I'd love to buy a grab bag lot like that, but don't want to end up with stuff I am scared to use as it might hurt my amp.

Thanks!
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #24 - 11/03/20 at 03:59:00
 
"Smart?" Probably the smart move is to buy your tubes from Steve and be done with it. I wouldn't call tube rolling in general, or buying a bunch of tubes from the former Soviet Union in particular, smart. But it is (or can be) fun and interesting. I've been doing it for a long time and have bought a bunch of useless tubes, but in the process I've also found a lot real bargains.

So, I guess I would say I wouldn't do it to be smart, but I'd do it if sounds like fun.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Archie
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #25 - 11/03/20 at 15:24:16
 
Steve once recommended that I do exactly that -- get a bunch of cheaply priced tubs and dig out the gold!
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canonken
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #26 - 11/04/20 at 04:28:49
 
OK - but what is the risk of putting in a turd that kills another tube or the amp?
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #27 - 11/04/20 at 14:45:56
 
There is always a risk, but IMO it is very low. Think about it this way: even good tubes fail occasionally, either because they get old, or they just randomly die catastrophically. And usually the amp is fine. Also, the UFO amps are low power in the first place so there is even less chance of a major meltdown. But if you're looking for a guarantee buy your tubes from Steve, or some other reliable dealer with a good reputation.

Full disclosure: I have a tube tester so I'm not going to put any crazy tube into my system. And my reading of the forums suggest even most people who roll tubes don't really roll the 6p15p power tubes, they mostly stick with Decware approved tubes.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Tubecan
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #28 - 01/07/21 at 16:39:24
 
I have these exact same ones,same year,these are from the reflector company,now they’re rebadged by svetlana2.0..from a dozen I have a good pair and they are impressive at first,shinny in the highs,bass seems more powerful,but after a week or so changing VR’ ,input tubes they lack holography,voices will not spook you into thinking there’s someone singing in front of you.

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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #29 - 01/07/21 at 19:17:48
 
I, too have a tube tester, a Hickok 6000. Unfortunately I was never able to get the test data for the '15P power tube.

I tested 6N1P-EV small signals using the data from the 6BQ7, which worked out okay.

These 6P15P tubes you all are raving about are not the military version. This means they lack the attention to ruggedness and long life that the EV versions have.
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Lon
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #30 - 01/07/21 at 20:41:36
 
That's true about the robust nature and longevity. But there are sonic differences that may, system dependently, make them good choices, and they are often not at all expensive. In some systems the military versions can have a harder, edgier character that doesn't work out so well. Like most of life (at least my experience as I've aged) there are compromises.
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CAJames
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #31 - 01/07/21 at 21:14:56
 
Quote:
Posted by: Rivieraranch      Posted on: Today at 19:17:48
I, too have a tube tester, a Hickok 6000. Unfortunately I was never able to get the test data for the '15P power tube.

I tested 6N1P-EV small signals using the data from the 6BQ7, which worked out okay...


I test 6P15P's as 6BQ5 aka EL84. Of course the tester tests them as a pentode, not a triode which is how they are used.

I test 6N1P's as 6DJ8, FWIW.

I've seen occasional cryptic references to a supplement with test settings for Russian tubes for decades, but I've never found it and at this point I doubt it exists.


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Tubecan
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #32 - 01/08/21 at 02:39:54
 
These reflectors are listenable,actually impressive,though my meters dropped from usually around 30 equal plus-minus a hair
with oA3’ down to 21 left 23 right.imaging is ok,I’ll let them a proper cook for a week and see what happens,I used one in a birthday cake,80 + is too many candles.
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Tubecan
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Re: Amazing sounding 6P15P, need help finding more.
Reply #33 - 06/18/21 at 18:24:58
 
Tubecan wrote on 01/08/21 at 02:39:54:
These reflectors are listenable,actually impressive,though my meters dropped from usually around 30 equal plus-minus a hair
with oA3’ down to 21 left 23 right.imaging is ok,I’ll let them a proper cook for a week and see what happens,I used one in a birthday cake,80 + is too many candles.

Just realized these are still in and haven’t noticed any difference,so they must be ok.



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